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hawkjt
04-23-2005, 10:51 AM
Bowa and the other goof(the cowboy?) took ozzies comments and flashed them on the screen and ripped Oz. They did not say one word about what Maggs said or what started the war of words. They just showed his tirade against maggs and said it was dumb and could come back to haunt against a division opponent.

I thought it was not a good idea for Oz to go off like this myself and this is the exact reason. The media can really make you look foolish when given the chance and BB tonite did it tonite. I do think that if detroit plays well against the sox the rest of the year this firestorm will be mentioned constantly.

I just think Ozzies mouth is writing checks that the players have to cover.

As Paulie said today- they are both friends of mine and I do not want to take sides. Maggs was a great player and a good teammate. It may give our players an idea that they do not want to get on ozzies bad side tho.

I just think it puts the players in an awkward position of having to answer questions about a former teammate and their current managers.

I thought Ozz would learn his lesson when he saw the Frank comments blow up and he was sick to his stomach. Go with No Comment next time oz.

chaerulez
04-23-2005, 10:56 AM
The worst managers in the history of baseball are:

1. Larry Bowa
2. Grady Little
3. Dusty Baker

and in that order, so his opinion isn't worth anything.

elrod
04-23-2005, 10:59 AM
This is Ozzie's personality. We'll just have to deal with it. Personally, I like his outspokenness. As for bulletin board material? Come on, Maggs is hardly even a member of the Tigers and what's the result of it going to be?

AntoneSmith2
04-23-2005, 11:03 AM
Those guys are a bunch of clowns

dcb33
04-23-2005, 11:20 AM
Bowa and the other goof(the cowboy?) took ozzies comments and flashed them on the screen and ripped Oz. They did not say one word about what Maggs said or what started the war of words. They just showed his tirade against maggs and said it was dumb and could come back to haunt against a division opponent.

I thought it was not a good idea for Oz to go off like this myself and this is the exact reason. The media can really make you look foolish when given the chance and BB tonite did it tonite. I do think that if detroit plays well against the sox the rest of the year this firestorm will be mentioned constantly.



If what you say is true (I didn't catch BBTN last night) the only ones who look foolish are the folks at ESPN for reporting what Ozzie said without mentioning or discussing what provoked those comments. Anyone with half of a brain would want to know what sparked such colorful comments, and it really is a shame ESPN shirked their responsibility to report all the facts and instead succumbed to their usual knee jerk reaction of bashing everything Sox whenever they report on the team.

patbooyah
04-23-2005, 11:45 AM
They just showed his tirade against maggs and said it was dumb and could come back to haunt against a division opponent.

by letting maggs hose them with this contract, the tigers have prevented themselves from being an opponent for the next 7 years. i mean, i wipe my feet on a doormat, but i don't consider it my opponent. and frankly, i don't see how this could upset the twins. :cool:

Jurr
04-23-2005, 11:47 AM
Let 'em complain about Ozzie. Let Moronotti complain about Ozzie. Let Ozzie talk his crap and lead us to our best record EVER.

munchman33
04-23-2005, 11:55 AM
I love Ozzie. And I think any publicity is good publicity. I don't care what the national media is saying about us. But I do care that they're finally saying something. This franchise needs a national identity in the worst way.

SOXSINCE'70
04-23-2005, 11:56 AM
Who the (bleep) are the idiots at "BBTN"?? :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

SOXSINCE'70
04-23-2005, 12:02 PM
Perhaps I should point out that "Gaggli-dough" started this.
Ozzie just responded to comments.I wish I had an "enemy"
that told my boss to give me a promotion the same way
Ozzie told Scheuler to bring "Gaggli-dough" up to the
majors in Sept. of '97.

Having said that,it's now time to,in the words of
ESPN morning radio wonks Mike and Mike,

JUST SHUT UP!!:angry: :angry:

Play the game.That will tell the story!!

JB98
04-23-2005, 12:02 PM
I don't understand why they think Ozzie's comments about Maggs could come back to haunt us. Magglio doesn't play for us. He plays for the Tigers. So what if these comments motivate the Tigers? Detroit still sucks. Even if they are more motivated to play against the Sox, they'll still be looking up at us in the standings.

LongLiveFisk
04-23-2005, 12:03 PM
But if a similar situation happened with the Twins, they'd all be saying what a great man of character Ron Gardenhire is and that's why his teams have such great chemistry. :rolleyes:

BainesHOF
04-23-2005, 12:08 PM
Ozzie needs to shut up, period. We're rolling and in the last week he's bad-mouthed Frank and Mags.

Ozzie needs to remember the kind of player he was, and have respect for others who accomplished a lot more. My goodness, Ozzie was one of the dumbest hitters I've ever seen. Plus he always looked into the stands instead of paying attention to the game.

dcb33
04-23-2005, 12:19 PM
I don't understand why they think Ozzie's comments about Maggs could come back to haunt us. Magglio doesn't play for us. He plays for the Tigers. So what if these comments motivate the Tigers? Detroit still sucks. Even if they are more motivated to play against the Sox, they'll still be looking up at us in the standings.

I don't think it would even motivate the Tigers. This spat is between Magglio and Ozzie, and no one else.

If this incident does have any sort of effect on the Tigers, I'd be inclined to believe that a lot of players on the Tigers would agree with Ozzie on this issue (as in shut the **** up and play for your own team), although they would never say so publicly. The Tigers have paid him an inordinate amount of money to help them win and so far all he's done is sit out with some sort of mystery injury and wet his pants by picking fights over things that should be water under the bridge. None of his behavior would be particularly endearing to anyone's coworkers, let alone ones who are making less money than him.

The Racehorse
04-23-2005, 12:22 PM
Larry Bowa? He's always been known for being the pillar of self control. :kneeslap:

Larry Bowa making that type of value judgment [on Ozzie] is freaking hilarious!

Lip Man 1
04-23-2005, 12:49 PM
At least for right now the players say thewy aren't being bothered by it and some actually enjoy it.

How much of the Sox success this season (and given the injury situation last year) is due to Ozzie?

If you muzzel him, could that change the atmosphere surrounding the team? and maybe not for the better?

If it's not bothering Williams then I wouldn't worry about it. And I agree with the poster on the publicity angle.

Lip

Jurr
04-23-2005, 12:59 PM
A team like the White Sox reminds me of a young team that had a turnaround in the NBA...the Memphis Grizzlies.

They were a young(er) squad that had no real identity as far as leadership was concerned. Enter Hubie Brown...a guy that knows how to lead and he told the media on several occasions that "when a team is without a bona fide leader, it's up to the coach to impose his personality on the team and lead until the team can do it on its own"

Hubie, with this attitude, developed chemistry within the team, which led to the Grizzlies posting a 50 win season (previous high was 28) and making the playoffs.

The White Sox are not a young team, but they haven't been together long enough to build a strong core of leadership. Ozzie is going to keep the fire going with this club, and the team will respond to his leadership. The Sox needed fire, as evidenced by the Jerry Manuel era. Last year, there were some major holes in the overall scope of the team (bullpen, 5th starter, leadoff,etc.)...now Ozzie has a full plate of players. His leadership comes out with this team, and the team actually has the players to compete.

Let the man yell, curse, throw tantrums, and anything else he wants to do. The man loves the team, is as big a Sox fan as anyone, and will be a great leader for the club. ESPN doesn't think about these things...that's why they need to keep their opinions to themselves.

Jurr
04-23-2005, 01:01 PM
Oh..by the way...he's very aware of the media bias towards the Cubs. Ozzie is doing a great job (in a Jerry Springer kind of way) bringing excitement and media attention to a ballclub that deserves some pub.

People will be forced to notice the Sox, and maybe just to get a look at this loudmouth manager. They'll also notice, though, that this team is pretty damn good.

Dan H
04-23-2005, 01:51 PM
I don't think Ozzie lipping will hurt team performance, but I also think it is time for him to cool it. Ordonez started it, but this was one time Guillen should have not taken the bait. As far as ripping Olivo and Lee, I don't see the point. They are gone, and fans have supported the trades by and large. Isn't it time to just play? What ex-players are doing or saying has no impact on what is happening with the Sox now. The White Sox want positive exposure in the media. So be positive. I don't understand bitterness when you're winning. The only thing to result from Ozzie lashing out is to reinforce the bad image the Sox organization has.

JoseCanseco6969
04-23-2005, 01:59 PM
I love Ozzie. And I think any publicity is good publicity. I don't care what the national media is saying about us. But I do care that they're finally saying something. This franchise needs a national identity in the worst way.

I can imagine people saying... Hey when did Chicago get a second baseball team??????

cwsox
04-23-2005, 02:10 PM
Ozzie needs to shut up, period. We're rolling and in the last week he's bad-mouthed Frank and Mags.

Ozzie needs to remember the kind of player he was, and have respect for others who accomplished a lot more. My goodness, Ozzie was one of the dumbest hitters I've ever seen. Plus he always looked into the stands instead of paying attention to the game.

thank you for a few words of sanity in this thread

Oldfellah
04-23-2005, 02:18 PM
Ozzie needs to shut up, period. We're rolling and in the last week he's bad-mouthed Frank and Mags.

Ozzie needs to remember the kind of player he was, and have respect for others who accomplished a lot more. My goodness, Ozzie was one of the dumbest hitters I've ever seen. Plus he always looked into the stands instead of paying attention to the game.

There is a reason why this teams plays like it does,,,, OZZIE... Maybe you weren't paying attention while he was playing, but he was a scrapper... He did everything humanly possible to keep things rolling... Weather he was on the field or in the batters box.. He Battled... and so, this is what our Sox look like now... They dig down and try to get things done for the team, not for themselves... This is real Baseball,,, and I'm happy that Ozzie was the one picked to Lead this team! Maybe you'd prefer Jerry Manuel or Gene Lamont back as skipper?

spongyfungy
04-23-2005, 02:20 PM
Magglio isn't even liked in Detroit yet. (Dmitri was asked about Troy and Magglio. He liked Percival because he brings a lightheartedness to the club. He had no comment on Magglio other than that he's been a quiet loner)

Ozzie's comments could be construed as divisive since Magglio may still be friends with the players on the White Sox, like Paulie. Ozzie is passionate but he has to think of his team and how they may feel/react. I hope Ozzie talks to his team that the feud is between him and Maggs and that he isn't asking anyone to choose sides. This feud could be a distraction and its disappointing that the manager is the one who is doing this.

Muck Fagglio.

Nard
04-23-2005, 02:51 PM
The most outlandish thing JM ever did was dress up in a hotel doorman's outfit and greet the team. It is also by no coicidence the gayest thing a manager has ever done in the history of the universe.

You asked for an energetic manager and you got a real firecracker in Ozzie. I have absolutely no complaints about his media antics. Who cares if Moronotti is disgusted?

Also, how in any way would this motivate the Tigers to play harder against us? He just said the other day that some of his best friends are on that team and that he has nothing against them. The only player who would give any extra is Magglio, and I have a sneaking suspicion that we're not going to be seeing him around all that much this season.

beckett21
04-23-2005, 03:01 PM
Dusting this one off once again

:whocares

The Sox are winning. Life is good. Ozzie can say whatever he wants about whomever he wants as far as I'm concerned. It's about time we have someone stand up for themselves.

I say, Bravo Ozzie. :cool:

Fake Chet Lemon
04-23-2005, 03:03 PM
Good! Let's take on a Raider-like persona like they had in the 1970's and 1980's. Let all these National strokes playa-hate us while we give their favorite teams a beat down. Let's do everything unconventionally like those Raider teams and "Just Win Baby". If they don't like it Oz, give em more of it! They are never going to say anything good about us nationally so let's continue to upset them. Sox Pride beee-othces. Deal with it!

Fake Chet Lemon
04-23-2005, 03:05 PM
Oh..by the way...he's very aware of the media bias towards the Cubs. Ozzie is doing a great job (in a Jerry Springer kind of way) bringing excitement and media attention to a ballclub that deserves some pub.

People will be forced to notice the Sox, and maybe just to get a look at this loudmouth manager. They'll also notice, though, that this team is pretty damn good.

Exactly. The national media will never love us. So let's give them hate instead. Better than being ignored.

Fenway
04-23-2005, 04:33 PM
WEEI was playing a clip all week which Ozzie said after losing on Sunday to Seattle

"I don't want to sweep a team, I want to beat them 2 out of 3"

This tells me his command of the english language is maybe 60-70% ( which is not a knock since my spanish is about -10) but getting words twisted out of context could cause him big problems down the road.

Ol' No. 2
04-23-2005, 04:59 PM
WEEI was playing a clip all week which Ozzie said after losing on Sunday to Seattle

"I don't want to sweep a team, I want to beat them 2 out of 3"

This tells me his command of the english language is maybe 60-70% ( which is not a knock since my spanish is about -10) but getting words twisted out of context could cause him big problems down the road.It already has. The whole "Frank Thomas was part of the bad attitude" quote falls into that category.

DMarte708
04-23-2005, 05:15 PM
Does anyone else ever feel as if Baseball Tonight searches for any means of drawing attention from our great start? Sportscenter has praised us several occasions, while BBTN never has analyzed our great start. Dodgers were given immense coverage when they were they held the best record. Will we?

I do appreciate Brantley and Bowa complimenting Buehlre. However, these moments are few and far between for a club starting 13-4.

It's really irritating listening to Brantley claim "no matter how hot we start off, Minnesota will win the division." How can someone assume this? Took Kansas City nearly 4 months to tail off from their tremendous start. And their club had absolutely no pitching.

Two sox games this week, both against Detroit, highlights were left out during ESPN's "Trifecta." Checking scheduling on both days, and comparing the teams playing with highlights shown, we were the ONLY team (incl. Detroit) on both days not to be shown. Coincidence? I'd like to believe so.

When the Ozzie ordeal diminishes, and we're still winning, these goofs will have no choice but to cover our club. Hopefully, without "luck" involving itself in the sentence.

Jurr
04-23-2005, 05:18 PM
It's all bull----. If the Yankees and Red Sox are struggling, they'll always point to "it's very early" as their only defense of the team's problems. If the Sox were 7-11, they'd be saying that KW's approach has obviously failed and that it will be a long season on the south side. Can't you easily hear them saying that?

These morons have such biased opinions that it'll take two freakin' seasons before they give anyone outside of their "loop" any credit.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-23-2005, 05:38 PM
Lots of valid points already stated in this thread. I can only add two things.

Ozzie's command of the English language.
The fact he is bilingual is definitely an asset given all the Spanish-speaking ballplayers on the Sox and in baseball generally. Presumably he connects with them better than any non-Spanish manager could. However his poor command of English hurts him as we've seen several times already. Unlike hitters or pitchers, a manager's job isn't to hit or pitch but getting his ballplayers ready to play. The primary means to doing this is through his communication skills, and Ozzie's aren't as good as they could be.

Who should Ozzie target?
Several people have already noted that the ballplayers aren't concerned about Ozzie's tirades, at least not openly. Personally I have no problem with it either. In fact some of the best managers (Earl Weaver, Billy Martin) were constantly putting themselves in the middle of controversy. I would only hope Ozzie pick his battles a little better. Bad mouthing ex-Sox is not a very good choice because it divides the clubhouse. Ripping on the local or national media or opposing ballplayers is always a better choice. They're never going to cut the Sox any slack so "f 'em" as Ozzie might say.
:cool:

batmanZoSo
04-23-2005, 05:46 PM
I don't care about this at all, I stick to the game on the field. That's my policy. Anything else that happens is soap opera material to me.

If Ozzie and Maggs want to act like asses, that's their prerogative. Not to say Ozzie didn't have a reason, maybe he was truly hurt, but he certainly handled it in a less than heroic fashion, no doubt about that. Whatever...let's win one tonight. :cool:

TornLabrum
04-23-2005, 05:47 PM
It already has. The whole "Frank Thomas was part of the bad attitude" quote falls into that category.

So did his comments about not playing for the fans before the strike several years ago. He said almost the exact same thing at one of our luncheons, btw, but we heard the whole thing from him, not just a selected sound bite. He also said, the fans are great and it's too bad if they struck, but the players have to do what they have to do.

Believe me, when you hear sound bites of Ozzie, you're probably hearing half or less of the complete story. Ozzie does tend to go on...and that's not good for radio or TV, so they select the most controversial parts...you know, the parts that get a story.

iwcup
04-23-2005, 10:11 PM
I look at the maggs ozzie story as a managerial thing of beauty. the tiggers have been our achilles heel so what does ozzie do? he runs with the garbage that maggs spews and lets every reporter there fire away about this instead of dig in and talk about the Sox's losing ways against detroit etc.

I say kudos, IF, he is doing this to keep the team loose.

Lip Man 1
04-23-2005, 10:27 PM
Geez PHG brought up Billy Martin and he's right. Everyone knows Martin and the Reggie Jackson national TV argument in Boston in 1977 but how many of you remember 1969 when he was the Twins manager?

Martin and Twins starter Dave Boswell were both sitting at a bar when Boswell made an ill timed remark about Martin's pitching coach (It may have been Billy Conners?). Martin promptly threw one punch and knocked Boswell right off his stool and on to his rear end.

Ed Farmer also tells the story about when he was with the Tigers and Martin was the manager. Martin's pitching coach came out to talk to Ed in a tight spot in a game and Ed didn't like it. Farmer says that he told the coach 'if you come out here again I'll knock you on your ass right here on the mound.'

When Farmer got back to the dugout Martin was waiting for him. Billy said (according to Ed) 'you got a problem with the coach? 'Cause if you do, you've got a problem with me. Now do you have a problem?' Ed said Billy was ready to go right there. Farmer said 'No, sir.' Martin said, 'get your ass in the clubhouse.'

Lip

jabrch
04-23-2005, 10:28 PM
I hope Ozzie says something like, "Who ees dees Laree Bow? He can go fok heemself. Wha teem doe he manaj?"

minastirith67
04-23-2005, 11:18 PM
Great story, Lip. Farmer seems to be enough of an ass to do that, too.

popilius
04-23-2005, 11:22 PM
Ozzie needs to shut up, period. We're rolling and in the last week he's bad-mouthed Frank and Mags.

Ozzie needs to remember the kind of player he was, and have respect for others who accomplished a lot more. My goodness, Ozzie was one of the dumbest hitters I've ever seen. Plus he always looked into the stands instead of paying attention to the game.

Huh? Although you're last few sentences are meaningless, I believe he does need to show more care in saying things. Just going off on people, no matter who started it or what was said, doesn't show a lot of class.

Still, I like Ozzie's attitude in the same way that Konerko does; he recognized that he is an 'old-school,' more traditional kind of manager. A lot of managers now give cookie-cutter sound bites that don't mean anything. Ozzie shows his passion for the White Sox by defending the team like any of us here at WSI would do.

:gulp:

Krpjr
04-24-2005, 01:56 AM
Surprisingly, Wilbon (who's a Cub apologist) said on PTI that he loved Ozzie's fire and wished he was on the North side.

Nellie_Fox
04-24-2005, 02:09 AM
Surprisingly, Wilbon (who's a Cub apologist) said on PTI that he loved Ozzie's fire and wished he was on the North side.I love PTI, but am always puzzled and disappointed that Wilbon, a southsider, is such a Cubs fan.

wassagstdu
04-24-2005, 07:53 AM
Ozzie needs to remember the kind of player he was, and have respect for others who accomplished a lot more. My goodness, Ozzie was one of the dumbest hitters I've ever seen.
Come on, if Ozzie were still playing he would constantly be compared to Ichiro. I used to wonder how anybody could think he could hit with the body going to first and the bat to third. Maybe it's the new Fosbury Flop! The Ozzie flail!

gosox41
04-24-2005, 07:56 AM
This is Ozzie's personality. We'll just have to deal with it. Personally, I like his outspokenness. As for bulletin board material? Come on, Maggs is hardly even a member of the Tigers and what's the result of it going to be?

It's easier to take Ozzie's comments when the team is winning. But what about when they're losing? Personally, I wish he'd keep his mout shut already.


Bob