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chisoxfanatic
04-19-2005, 01:24 AM
I'm not going to complain about Shingo tonight. He did his job and recorded the save. But, I've noticed a trend that has left me a bit uneasy about having him be our long-term closer. Thankfully, it didn't happen today; however, he seems to be unable to pitch without blemishes (i.e. surrendered big hits, including the home run).

I think that it would be in the Sox' best interest to have Shingo be the "set up" guy and have Hermanson close. Hermanson does have command in his pitching. In the event he blows it in a save situation, Dustin has the longevity to pitch deep into "extra innings," which could be a game saver in extra innings as well depending on how many bullpen pitchers the opposing team has used.

I don't wanna see Ozzie tinker with things as much as Jerry Manuel ever did, but I'd think that this could bring nothing but positives to our bullpen.

SABRSox
04-19-2005, 01:29 AM
Yawn. Where is that beating a dead horse tag? Shingo will be fine. It's common for relief pitchers to have problems spotting their pitches early in the season. What do you expect, they only get something like a dozen innings in spring training to work. This is especially true for pitchers like Shingo who rely heavily on breaking pitches. Right now, the only thing he's spotting is his fastball, and hitters are just sitting on it. This will probably be a non-issue in a week or two.

chisoxfanatic
04-19-2005, 01:33 AM
Yawn. Where is that beating a dead horse tag? Shingo will be fine. It's common for relief pitchers to have problems spotting their pitches early in the season. What do you expect, they only get something like a dozen innings in spring training to work. This is especially true for pitchers like Shingo who rely heavily on breaking pitches. Right now, the only thing he's spotting is his fastball, and hitters are just sitting on it. This will probably be a non-issue in a week or two.

I really hope you're right...He needs to work on the location more...Perhaps extra work with Art Kusyner could be beneficial.

Alanzo XXXVIII
04-19-2005, 01:49 AM
All I know is that Shingo made Torri Hunter look like a moron with his changeup. It almost looked liked Torri hurt himself trying to wait for it.

That being said, Shingo still has some serious refinement ahead of him...

34 Inch Stick
04-19-2005, 11:00 AM
The first batter of the inning also had no idea what to do with Shingo. His hips were through the strike zone before the ball was anywhere near the plate.

fincher
04-19-2005, 11:08 AM
Shingo will be fine but my preference is a flamethrower as the closer. Shingo definitely keeps hitters off-balance and I hope he keeps the ball in the yard. That's 4 dingers already!

Go Shingo!!!!!

mcfish
04-19-2005, 11:13 AM
As long as he keeps getting the job done, he should be our closer. Most teams would be ecstatic to have a closer who is 24/26.

Remember last year when he threw the equivalent of a perfect game? We know he can get the job done, now we just have to hope he continues to do so.

Ol' No. 2
04-19-2005, 11:15 AM
Shingo is pitching exactly like he did in ST last year. He's struggling with his control some and he's not getting lefties out. Marte was warm in the BP last night, and if Shingo hadn't gotten Hunter, there's no way he would have pitched to Jones.

Whether he'll get it together or not remains to be seen.

TDog
04-19-2005, 11:49 AM
I have no problem with a good team using the best pitcher available for a given closing situation. Some disdain that as "closer by committee." A solid bullpen, though, is a committee. The Sox have several pitchers experienced in closing games. If Shingo, for example, retires three hitters with a one-run lead one night, it might not be the best idea to bring him in against the same hitters with a one-run lead the next night. Hermanson, Viz or Marte might stand a better chance of success.

I think Bobby Thigpen is a great guy, and I'm happy to see him with the save record, but the year he was achieving it, Dave Campbell made a great point. Thigpen's conversion on his percentage of save chances wasn't better than the better teams recorded for their bullpens. A few pitchers have have recorded better percentages since, but that doesn't mean having one stud closer is the only way to win. This year, I think every team, except the Twins, have blown saves in the ninth inning after going to their stud closer. The idea that you have to have one guy saving all of your close games is absurd when there are precious few pitchers who are automatic.

PatK
04-19-2005, 12:16 PM
Shingo's problems only occur when facing lefties.

hdog1017
04-19-2005, 05:07 PM
Shingo is slumping a little bit. Let's see if he can turn it around. I think he has earned that right.

Foulke You
04-19-2005, 05:17 PM
Shingo also seems to be relying a lot more on his fastball this year than he did last year. In 2004, he only threw the fastball to surprise the hitters and catch them off guard while most of his other pitches were the offspeed junk like his sinker, frisbee, and changeup. Not sure what the change in philosophy is for.

Ol' No. 2
04-19-2005, 05:21 PM
Shingo also seems to be relying a lot more on his fastball this year than he did last year. In 2004, he only threw the fastball to surprise the hitters and catch them off guard while most of his other pitches were the offspeed junk like his sinker, frisbee, and changeup. Not sure what the change in philosophy is for.He seems very predictable this year. I watched him last night and called every one of his frisbees before he threw it. He's using the fastball and curveball to get ahead in the count, then comes with the frisbee as the out pitch. TV commercials notwithstanding, if you know it's coming, hitting it is a lot easier.

Iguana775
04-19-2005, 07:54 PM
my preference is a flamethrower as the closer.

Like Koch?

Jurr
04-19-2005, 08:05 PM
I know that the closer is some special guy that the team brings in for the clutch situations, but I believe that there's not a damn thing wrong with doing the closing thing situationally. What's making it so special that the inning is the ninth and not the eighth?? If Hermanson's the better matchup, keep him in. If we're better off with Vizcaino, then go with him. Do we HAVE to have the one closer?

TDog
04-19-2005, 10:53 PM
I know that the closer is some special guy that the team brings in for the clutch situations, but I believe that there's not a damn thing wrong with doing the closing thing situationally. What's making it so special that the inning is the ninth and not the eighth?? If Hermanson's the better matchup, keep him in. If we're better off with Vizcaino, then go with him. Do we HAVE to have the one closer?

This is what I've been saying. Up until now, no one has agreed with me.

MikeKreevich
04-19-2005, 11:21 PM
No, we're not beating a dead horse. We should have concerns with Shingo. Ozzie made a curious comment after the game. He said he didn't like taking Shingo out, he didn't want to embarrass him.
I like Shingo but I would like to see Ozzie use him as the set up man and try Hermanson as closer. I hope we don't have to lose a game to see this but we probably will.

chisoxfanatic
04-19-2005, 11:21 PM
I have no problem with a good team using the best pitcher available for a given closing situation. Some disdain that as "closer by committee." A solid bullpen, though, is a committee. The Sox have several pitchers experienced in closing games. If Shingo, for example, retires three hitters with a one-run lead one night, it might not be the best idea to bring him in against the same hitters with a one-run lead the next night. Hermanson, Viz or Marte might stand a better chance of success.

I think Bobby Thigpen is a great guy, and I'm happy to see him with the save record, but the year he was achieving it, Dave Campbell made a great point. Thigpen's conversion on his percentage of save chances wasn't better than the better teams recorded for their bullpens. A few pitchers have have recorded better percentages since, but that doesn't mean having one stud closer is the only way to win. This year, I think every team, except the Twins, have blown saves in the ninth inning after going to their stud closer. The idea that you have to have one guy saving all of your close games is absurd when there are precious few pitchers who are automatic.

You make a very valid point. And this would work if each pitcher in the bullpen were clearly told their roles in the bullpen (under what situations would they be brought in, etc). As displayed today, we could even use Marte in a pinch and still get outs effectively. Perhaps Ozzie read this post prior to the game. ;)

FarWestChicago
04-19-2005, 11:23 PM
I like Shingo but I would like to see Ozzie use him as the set up man and try Hermanson as closer. I hope we don't have to lose a game to see this but we probably will.Do you have any idea how many games Hermanson totally blew for the Gain'ts last year? I hope he does well, but be careful what you wish for. Many a Gain't fan place their playoff miss on Hermanson's shoulders.

chisoxfanatic
04-19-2005, 11:24 PM
I like Shingo but I would like to see Ozzie use him as the set up man and try Hermanson as closer. I hope we don't have to lose a game to see this but we probably will.

Hermanson would be best in closing tight games where it appears the game COULD go to extra innings, due to his longevity. He's the only guy who can consistently pitch 3+ innings due to his experience starting. Hermanson brings a dimension to the table that the others can't in that respect.

chisoxfanatic
04-19-2005, 11:27 PM
Do you have any idea how many games Hermanson totally blew for the Gain'ts last year? I hope he does well, but be careful what you wish for. Many a Gain't fan place their playoff miss on Hermanson's shoulders.

The thing about that is that he's now in a different league facing different hitters, and is in a new environment that seems to be very relaxed. Those factors could positively effect him. In addition, there's no telling if he will even duplicate his misfortunes last season. Until I have a reason for negative thoughts, I try looking at things in the positive light with regards to our players...

hose
04-19-2005, 11:29 PM
Shingo seems like he is getting hit on balls left up in the zone lately.

He should be able to get back together, the pen is still in good shape.

chisoxfanatic
04-19-2005, 11:35 PM
Shingo seems like he is getting hit on balls left up in the zone lately.

I think the problem is with his release. If he'd drop the release and get a little more spin in the pitch, he might be able to get guys to either ground out or even whiff at it.

FarWestChicago
04-19-2005, 11:44 PM
Until I have a reason for negative thoughts, I try looking at things in the positive light with regards to our players...And we all know I have such a long track record as a pessimist. :rolleyes:

In fact, this really pisses me off. I'm like one of 4 people around here who are not rabid FOBB's, FOLIP's or just general psychotic whiners. I have spent years being assaulted by A's fans, Lip fans and other chronic depressoids. And now you give me **** because I happen to live in the place your "boy" committed some crimes. Sheesh. :rolleyes:

NWSox
04-20-2005, 01:39 AM
I'm a big fan of the closer by committee. I've never been convinced that Shingo is built for the closer role, Herm has an uneven track record as a closer, and, IIRC, Viz hasn't been a full-time closer in the past. I don't believe we have an obvious closer on staff, so why force the issue. Play the situations, and Ozzie, please don't use the 9th inning of close games to build Shingo's confidence.

batmanZoSo
04-20-2005, 01:44 AM
I'm a big fan of the closer by committee. I've never been convinced that Shingo is built for the closer role, Herm has an uneven track record as a closer, and, IIRC, Viz hasn't been a full-time closer in the past. I don't believe we have an obvious closer on staff, so why force the issue. Play the situations, and Ozzie, please don't use the 9th inning of close games to build Shingo's confidence.

Ah, the dreaded CBC. It appears we already have that. If that's going to be the case, I'd like KW to pull off a trade for another stud setup guy. If we have two or three guys pitching the 9th every night, that leaves a gap in the 6-8th inning bridge. You can never have too many setup guys.