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mealfred13
04-18-2005, 10:54 PM
YES!!! Carl and Crede save the day!!! Umpires be damned!

NSSoxFan
04-18-2005, 10:55 PM
Where are all the Crede haters????

GO SOX YES!!!

DoggPhood
04-18-2005, 10:55 PM
I'm very happy about this win. Everything that could go wrong did go wrong, yet we still managed to find a way to win.

That said... I think we may have to go with Hermy as our closer.

gobears1987
04-18-2005, 10:55 PM
nice win, but that ump didn't give us jack.

PicktoCLick72
04-18-2005, 10:55 PM
Crede only hit one homerun. And it wwasn't a grandslam. Geez i hear AAA calling.

spawn
04-18-2005, 10:56 PM
:hawk

"I Luv smallball!"

The Racehorse
04-18-2005, 10:56 PM
Nice come from behind win... I wonder if Jayson Stark noticed the runs the SOX scored?

SoxWillWin
04-18-2005, 10:56 PM
Crede with a nine game hitting streak.......Crazy Carl coming up big.....and throw in Shingo to make it intersting.....Good Game:bandance::bandance::bandance::bandance::banda nce:

Erik The Red
04-18-2005, 10:57 PM
BENCH CREDE!!1!!!!1!!

Ron Karkovice
04-18-2005, 10:57 PM
oh man i almost had 8 heart attacks that game... GO SOX!

DVsoxfan
04-18-2005, 10:57 PM
Credes swing is looking real nice...

BearSox
04-18-2005, 10:57 PM
5 series and no series lost yet! :supernana:

Jjav829
04-18-2005, 10:58 PM
Crede sucks! We need a new 3B. Shingo shouldn't be our closer. Pfft!

9-4! Fitting that Tor-I-I ends the games, too.

:bandance:

MushMouth
04-18-2005, 10:58 PM
I still think Shingo can close out games, but its becoming a little too common that EVERY mistake he makes goes out of the park... These in-division hitters are just waiting for him to throw his fastball over for a strike and nailing.

spawn
04-18-2005, 10:59 PM
Our pitching gave up 9 hits, 5 walks, 1 HBP, yet gave up only 4 runs. That's winning baseball. We need to get Radke tomorrow, and grab our first sweep of the year.

patbooyah
04-18-2005, 10:59 PM
i am at work, so could somebody please elaborate on the umps not giving us calls?

mealfred13
04-18-2005, 10:59 PM
Not only is Crede saving our asses with the bat today, but he saved at least 3 runs with his glove alone tonight. He can hit .200 as long as he keeps snaring everything hit his way for all I care.

I also would have liked to see Hermanson closing today. I'd much rather see Shingo in a setup role at this point.

Norberto7
04-18-2005, 11:00 PM
Yes, everyone who wanted more walks finally got to see what they wanted!

...

What's that?

...

Oh, I see. Sox walks.

...

Hey, Sox still win!

gobears1987
04-18-2005, 11:00 PM
i am at work, so could somebody please elaborate on the umps not giving us calls?
Let's just say we had a very small zone for our pitchers, but Lohse was getting every call.

SoxWillWin
04-18-2005, 11:01 PM
Yes, everyone who wanted more walks finally got to see what they wanted!

...

What's that?

...

Oh, I see. Sox walks.

...

Hey, Sox still win!

It was UGLY, but it was a win

JGarlandrules20
04-18-2005, 11:01 PM
So what was with that balk?

mealfred13
04-18-2005, 11:02 PM
i am at work, so could somebody please elaborate on the umps not giving us calls?

Ump botched a call on a throw from Iguchi to Uribe to get out the lead runner, called him safe. Later that inning with 2 out and a man on third after a DP ball, the third base umpire called a balk on Contreras. On the replay, there is absolutely no indication of a Balk, and not only that, but the swinging strike during the balk call was wasted.

The hitter ended up walking and became the 3rd run for the Twins putting them up 3-1 when the inning should have been over already. Basically, they got 2 free runs today, and we still pulled out the win.

The home plate ump was squeezing Contreras early in the game too, and his strike zone was changing throughout the game.

DoggPhood
04-18-2005, 11:03 PM
So what was with that balk?


What balk?:rolleyes:

Basically, there was no balk. It was called on Contreras with a man on third, but replays clearly showed no movement.

owensmouth
04-18-2005, 11:03 PM
How did Farmio explain that balk?

mealfred13
04-18-2005, 11:03 PM
So what was with that balk?

No idea. That ump needs a week suspension without pay for calling random balks.

ChiSox7
04-18-2005, 11:04 PM
Shingo 4/5 in saves this year. 24/26 in his career. That'll work.

DoggPhood
04-18-2005, 11:04 PM
Yeah, what happens when replays show that Umps clearly make bad calls. Are they reprimanded?

Kogs35
04-18-2005, 11:06 PM
good job bullpen great win. :bandance: :bandance: :gulp: :gulp: :bandance:

mealfred13
04-18-2005, 11:06 PM
Yeah, what happens when replays show that Umps clearly make bad calls. Are they reprimanded?

Nah...their coworkers buy them a beer.

Dub25
04-18-2005, 11:06 PM
Not pretty but I'll take it. Forget smallball lets try that winning ugly thing again.

spawn
04-18-2005, 11:06 PM
About Contreras getting squeezed, that happens when you don't initially throw strikes, and you have a reputation for being wild. Contreras can be his own worst enemy.

cheeses_h_rice
04-18-2005, 11:06 PM
I realize that the third base ump completely ****ed Contreras with that bogus balk call, but the way we gave up runs 2 and 3 to the Twins is something that cannot be repeated. Brutal.

That said, good lordy what a win. I kept rewinding Carl Everett getting ALL of that ball on his second home run, with his comically exaggerated swing. An absolutely clutch bomb in a game filled with clutch plays (and yes, I'm thinking of you Joe Crede).

9-4....I'll take it.

:gulp::gulp::gulp:

DoggPhood
04-18-2005, 11:07 PM
27k in attendance. Not bad for early April.

duke of dorwood
04-18-2005, 11:09 PM
They got every call-and we still won. Crede is really a cool customer at third.

SoxSpeed22
04-18-2005, 11:09 PM
I'm very happy about this win. Everything that could go wrong did go wrong, yet we still managed to find a way to win.

That said... I think we may have to go with Hermy as our closer.Jason Bartlett gets the bonehead. Right after he swung at the first pitch and GIDP. I knew the Sox were gonna win. Lets get 'em again tomorrow!:supernana:

mealfred13
04-18-2005, 11:09 PM
I realize that the third base ump completely ****ed Contreras with that bogus balk call, but the way we gave up runs 2 and 3 to the Twins is something that cannot be repeated. Brutal.

That said, good lordy what a win. I kept rewinding Carl Everett getting ALL of that ball on his second home run, with his comically exaggerated swing. An absolutely clutch bomb in a game filled with clutch plays (and yes, I'm thinking of you Joe Crede).

9-4....I'll take it.

:gulp::gulp::gulp:

Run 2 WAS the balk call. The third run was on a base hit which shouldn't have happened in the first place.

WSox8404
04-18-2005, 11:09 PM
27k in attendance. Not bad for early April.

Not bad for this early in the year. If this keeps up Uncle Jerry will have plenty to spend for midseason pickups.

Rocklive99
04-18-2005, 11:09 PM
How did Farmio explain that balk?

I had the TV on mute and radio broadcast on the walkman, actually he called it before it happened, but then was real surprised after seeing that replay. It was something like "Here comes the pitch, and I think he flinched, they called a balk on him...I thought he flinched and I looked straight at the 3rd base umpire and saw him call it...[replays are shown]...Whoa, now I'm not so sure" and then basically talked about how he didn't see it/bad call, but it was weird that he called it before the umpire did, a bit confusing.

Brian26
04-18-2005, 11:10 PM
No idea. That ump needs a week suspension without pay for calling random balks.

Especially in that situation...tie game and runner on third. That's like the travel-call in the last minute of the NC/Villanova Tournament game.

cburns
04-18-2005, 11:11 PM
The radio is always ahead of the TV.

voodoochile
04-18-2005, 11:12 PM
Run 2 WAS the balk call. The third run was on a base hit which shouldn't have happened in the first place.

Actually, it was on a WP after a walk, SB with a throwing error to advance the runner to third and then the WP.

mealfred13
04-18-2005, 11:12 PM
About Contreras getting squeezed, that happens when you don't initially throw strikes, and you have a reputation for being wild. Contreras can be his own worst enemy.

He wasn't having problems throwing strikes initially. He was 0-2 or 1-2 in practically every count. He was having problems getting strike 3 across the plate, partially because the ump wasn't calling the corners, but mostly because he was scared to go at the hitters.

I'm just glad we got the win somehow. The Twins left 10 on base, and we left 1. That's unheard of.

Brian26
04-18-2005, 11:12 PM
They got every call-and we still won. Crede is really a cool customer at third.

You won't see the stats in the box score, but Crede played amazing defense.

DickAllen72
04-18-2005, 11:12 PM
Carl Everett is Da Man!!! :bandance: :bandance: :bandance:

Nice game for Joe Crede, too.

That balk call was BS!

Sox beat the Twins, take first place, and ..... Carl Everett is Da Man!!! :bandance: :bandance: :bandance:

Lip Man 1
04-18-2005, 11:13 PM
Maybe they are doing it with mirrors...if so I hope the mirror doesn't break. still to early to 'condemn' Shingo but if this trend continues another few games, Ozzie has no choice, he has to make the move.

Lip

Brian26
04-18-2005, 11:13 PM
The radio is always ahead of the TV.

This year it appears to be. Maybe because of the new Comcast HD stuff?

A. Cavatica
04-18-2005, 11:13 PM
The Sox drew no walks...scored all their runs on homers...got a Danny Wright-esque performance out of Contreras...it's like 2004 all over again.

But hey, we won!
:D:

mealfred13
04-18-2005, 11:14 PM
Actually, it was on a WP after a walk, SB with a throwing error to advance the runner to third and then the WP.

Right you are, thanks. In any event, the inning should have been over already.

hose
04-18-2005, 11:15 PM
That was one I thought the Twins were going to blow open early and the Sox hung in there and pulled it out.:bandance::bandance::bandance:

patbooyah
04-18-2005, 11:15 PM
and while we're at it- put me down for another perfect day!

cburns
04-18-2005, 11:15 PM
This year it appears to be. Maybe because of the new Comcast HD stuff?

No the radio is just always ahead of the television. Last year I would be upstairs listening to the radio, and someone would hit a home run, then I'd run downstairs and see the home run being hit live.

SluggersAway
04-18-2005, 11:16 PM
The doube plays saved us today. Carl and Crede deserve some credit too.

Dub25
04-18-2005, 11:17 PM
The Sox drew no walks...scored all their runs on homers...got a Danny Wright-esque performance out of Contreras...it's like 2004 all over again.

But hey, we won!
:D:

Let them win this while they try to perfect this smartball idea.

cheeses_h_rice
04-18-2005, 11:17 PM
Run 2 WAS the balk call. The third run was on a base hit which shouldn't have happened in the first place.

I realize how they scored the second run. But the third run scored without benefit of a hit at all:

-J Bartlett scored on J Contreras' balk.
-T Hunter walked.
-Jose Contreras pitches to Jacque Jones
-T Hunter stole second, T Hunter safe at third on throwing error by catcher A Pierzynski.
-T Hunter scored on J Contreras' wild pitch.

A bad umpiring call is something you can't prevent, I realize, but a balk, walk, stolen base, throwing error and wild pitch to score 2 runs is something winning teams cannot do.

Lip Man 1
04-18-2005, 11:19 PM
Brian:
Having not seen the play in question (yet) I don't know if it was a balk or not, however there is a school of thought that a foul is a foul is a foul. Doesn't matter if it's the first minute of the game or the last minute. If it happens... if it's a violation, it needs to be called.

You mention Villanova / N.C. how about Michigan State / Kentucky...when Sparks hit the three at the end it looked like contact was made, if so a foul should have been called. Possible four point play...possible ballgame. I know fans don't like referees (or umpires) to decide a game like that but again you get back to the premise that if a violation takes place you need to call it.

Lip

MRKARNO
04-18-2005, 11:20 PM
Let them win this while they try to perfect this smartball idea.

It seems so far that the team's definition of smartball is outsmart the pitcher and hit it to the seats.

Iron Dragon
04-18-2005, 11:22 PM
It seems so far that the team's definition of smartball is outsmart the pitcher and hit it to the seats.

Doing whatever it takes to win, THAT'S smartball.

TheBull19
04-18-2005, 11:23 PM
The Sox drew no walks...scored all their runs on homers...got a Danny Wright-esque performance out of Contreras...it's like 2004 all over again.

But hey, we won!
:D:

Except Wright wouldn't have lasted 3 innings and the bullpen wouldn't have held the lead.

DoggPhood
04-18-2005, 11:23 PM
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20050419/capt.ilbk10304190238.twins_white_sox_ilbk103.jpg

i love this picture after his second homer tonight. that's not a "i hope it goes out" look, it's a "damn, i crushed that one" look.

SOXPHILE
04-18-2005, 11:25 PM
Great win ! (I don't think there's such thing as a "bad" win). I think it would be a safe bet to say our guys were fortunate to win this one, with the way Contreras was pitching. In the 6th inning, D.J. said the Twins had already left 15 men on base. Is that right ? A little later, Hawk said the Sox, winning 5-3 after Crazy Carl's 2nd homer, could very easily be losing 10-5. Well, either way, I'm glad they won, here's hoping they go get 'em tommorrow too !

ND_Sox_Fan
04-18-2005, 11:25 PM
The Sox game was just the sports teaser on the local news here in South Bend. That is a huge turn of events ... last year, they didn't even cover the Sox.

Nice win tonight. Don't forget that this was a half-price night, so Uncle Jerry only collected gate receipts for 13,500.

flo-B-flo
04-18-2005, 11:25 PM
Maybe they are doing it with mirrors...if so I hope the mirror doesn't break. still to early to 'condemn' Shingo but if this trend continues another few games, Ozzie has no choice, he has to make the move.

Lip No Shingo against lefties for sure. Hermanson was on a roll. Jerry Manuel help Shingo's confidence move by Ozzie? Sox win again. GO-GO SOX!

Dub25
04-18-2005, 11:25 PM
It seems so far that the team's definition of smartball is outsmart the pitcher and hit it to the seats.

I agree! I guess they have to do that until the rest of the lineup gets going. I think the more games they win like tonight the better they will be off.

Banix12
04-18-2005, 11:25 PM
On a lighter note I was flipping channels to baseball tonight during commerical breaks and I caught the update on the sox game, after showing all the homeruns and reporting the score, they then reported Iguchi hit his first HR. Yet another brilliant nugget of reporting by ESPN.

BearSox
04-18-2005, 11:27 PM
The Sox game was just the sports teaser on the local news here in South Bend. That is a huge turn of events ... last year, they didn't even cover the Sox.

Nice win tonight. Don't forget that this was a half-price night, so Uncle Jerry only collected gate receipts for 13,500.

You forget he collects 27k worth of concessions and merchandising however

SoxxoS
04-18-2005, 11:28 PM
The Crede thread was closed before I got to post...But right before he hit the homer I said to my roommate "Crede is going yard here b/c I started a thread about how we need to look for a replacement over at WSI."

I was happy to be right. I hope he proves me wrong about needing a replacement, though...:bandance:

flo-B-flo
04-18-2005, 11:29 PM
You won't see the stats in the box score, but Crede played amazing defense. Today, recall the sometimes sports oracle, Joe Crede is a bust. More evidence of his inevitable demise. GO-GO Sox!

Whitesox029
04-18-2005, 11:30 PM
Talk about being handed a ballgame on a silver platter...7 walks, 9 hits and an error for 17 baserunners. 3 of them erased on DPs, and 4 runs, for a total of 10 men left on. It was like each team was trying to use prettier wrapping paper to wrap the game up as a gift for the other.

mealfred13
04-18-2005, 11:30 PM
The Crede thread was closed before I got to post...But right before he hit the homer I said to my roommate "Crede is going yard here b/c I started a thread about how we need to look for a replacement over at WSI."

I was happy to be right. I hope he proves me wrong about needing a replacement, though...:bandance:

Haha, I also called that one in the chat. Mentioned it was time for Crede to pull the homerun swing out of the locker, and BAM.

:cleoCall meh now!!!

flo-B-flo
04-18-2005, 11:35 PM
On a lighter note I was flipping channels to baseball tonight during commerical breaks and I caught the update on the sox game, after showing all the homeruns and reporting the score, they then reported Iguchi hit his first HR. Yet another brilliant nugget of reporting by ESPN. I saw that. I couldn't watch the game on TV -no ciu - so this caused confusion. If .......sh.....when the Sox keep winning they'll jump on the wagon.

ChiSox7
04-18-2005, 11:37 PM
At this time last year Shingo had given up only 1 less run in 2/3s less innings. I think we need to give Shingo time. He's going to be okay.

The only time we need to watch out for him is against awesome lefties like Joe Mauer. Mauer owned him last year too. He is now 3 for 3 with 2 HR and a double against Shingo.

ElDuque26
04-18-2005, 11:37 PM
With the big win tonight it gives us our 5th shot for a series sweep...and this being a two game series is crucial seeing as we have only lost game 3's this year. El Duque returns to the mound only 10 days after dominating the twins and his first win for the south siders

jdm2662
04-18-2005, 11:41 PM
Nice of them to pull a win in a game where they pretty much told the Twins, here take it. That fifth inning was pretty brutual. In any case, just win baby!
________
Mercedes-benz type 300 specifications (http://www.mercedes-wiki.com/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_Type_300)

SoxWillWin
04-18-2005, 11:43 PM
Did Dolgin just mention WSI?????

Tavarin
04-18-2005, 11:44 PM
Did Dolgin just mention WSI?????

Yeah, when talking about White Sox fans ripping on Torii

SoxWillWin
04-18-2005, 11:47 PM
Yeah, when talking about White Sox fans ripping on Torii

People at WSI rip torii hunter? NEVER :cool:

Lip Man 1
04-18-2005, 11:48 PM
I can recall plenty of games where the Sox left 15 guys on base and lost. Turnabout is nice.

Seriously I don't know how they are winning. By all rights, they shouldn't be, but sometimes, a la the 1990 White Sox team, things just happen sometimes. And the more it happens the more you start to believe both players and fans.

Perhaps this will be one of those rare years.

Lip

ChiSox7
04-18-2005, 11:48 PM
Who would have guessed that Iguchi would have the second highest average amongst the regulars after a little over two weeks of play against some pretty solid pitchers. I'm really, really impressed with this guy.

Additionally, it's scary to think what this team could be like if Paul, Dye, Aaron, AJ and Uribe pick up the pace. WIth this pitching!! Wow. Here's to hoping they come out of their slumps soon.

TaylorStSox
04-18-2005, 11:51 PM
The best part about this win was that we're beginning to really turn to tides on The Twins *knock on wood*. We beat them the way that they've always beat us. They played like the underachievers today. It's nice to see.


That defense at the hot corner sure was nice today. Not bad for an "average 3rd baseman with a 'decent arm.'" :redneck

Unregistered
04-19-2005, 12:00 AM
I noticed this in earlier games and twice today: when Konerko steps up to the plate, the scouting report on him must be that he doesn't swing at the first pitch, because almost EVERY TIME the first pitch is just a straight fastball right down the middle that he just stares at.

If Paulie walked up there ready for that first pitch fastball, he could probably be insanely productive until pitchers realize he isn't taking that first pitch anymore...

Oh, and Carl rules. :gulp:

DoggPhood
04-19-2005, 12:01 AM
An underrated star of this game was Vizcaino. He got into some trouble, but worked his way out of it. A solid two innings of relief.

CHISOXFAN13
04-19-2005, 12:02 AM
I absolutely love the emotion Hermanson continues to show. Regardless of what his role is, he's a winner.

TaylorStSox
04-19-2005, 12:04 AM
I noticed this in earlier games and twice today: when Konerko steps up to the plate, the scouting report on him must be that he doesn't swing at the first pitch, because almost EVERY TIME the first pitch is just a straight fastball right down the middle that he just stares at.

If Paulie walked up there ready for that first pitch fastball, he could probably be insanely productive until pitchers realize he isn't taking that first pitch anymore...

Oh, and Carl rules. :gulp:

He's been that way his whole career. I don't see that changing. He hits well behind in the count so I don't think it really matters.

SOXPHILE
04-19-2005, 12:10 AM
People at WSI rip torii hunter? NEVER :cool:

Watch it. He's "from the 'hood playa".

batmanZoSo
04-19-2005, 12:13 AM
Talk about a game we did NOT deserve to win. The Twins just layed a turd out there today. Remember corpseball? That was it, on the Twins part. They got seven walks and really only scored two runs (I don't count those two gifts with the balk). I think this falls into the "other 42" category. I give our boys credit, though. You gotta do something right to win a game, no matter how much the other team gives it to you. They got the big homers when they needed them.

Crazy Carl is a monster. At this rate, he's in right and Dye sits when Thomas returns, there's no doubt about that.

This bullpen is doing a phenominal job. And Hermanson continues to make his case for the closer job. I have full confidence in him...it's a nice feeling to have. I also liked the way Ozzie managed tonight, he took out Cotts immediately right after that walk and it ended up paying off. Great job by Vizcaino to overcome not having his best stuff. For that matter, great job by Contreras to keep us in the game despite pitching like a scared pansy most of the time. If you think about all those walks and that nibbling he does with 2 strikes...it's scary to think how good he could be if he just grew a pair of stones.

3 out of 4 wins on this homestand, and as usual I pick the wrong day to go. I'm debating whether to go tomorrow, but my better instincts tell me I should stay away for the good of the team. :cool:

voodoochile
04-19-2005, 12:15 AM
I can recall plenty of games where the Sox left 15 guys on base and lost. Turnabout is nice.

Seriously I don't know how they are winning. By all rights, they shouldn't be, but sometimes, a la the 1990 White Sox team, things just happen sometimes. And the more it happens the more you start to believe both players and fans.

Perhaps this will be one of those rare years.

Lip

That was my thought. Everyone remember last Sunday when the only thing the Sox did worse than the Twinkies was not hit a 3-run jack? Turnabout is a bitch. Nice to see the Sox doing to the Twinkies what they have been doing to us.

Cowch44
04-19-2005, 12:17 AM
I noticed this in earlier games and twice today: when Konerko steps up to the plate, the scouting report on him must be that he doesn't swing at the first pitch, because almost EVERY TIME the first pitch is just a straight fastball right down the middle that he just stares at.

If Paulie walked up there ready for that first pitch fastball, he could probably be insanely productive until pitchers realize he isn't taking that first pitch anymore...

Oh, and Carl rules. :gulp:

I have a videogame from 2003-04 and it says that he never swings at the first pitch.

WikdChiSoxFan
04-19-2005, 12:17 AM
I Love White Sox Baseball!!!!!!!

TDog
04-19-2005, 12:17 AM
I hope I'm not being repetitive here. I haven't had time to read the entire thread. The game (like all day games and just about all night games) was over by the time I got home from work, but I was peaking at the ESPN baseball updates. They missed Everett's second home run and reported that Mauer broke the tie with his 9th inning home run, except they had it posted in the 8th. I checked the AP wire and was delightfully surprised to see a win.

At first, the game looked like 2001, in particular a game I attended where Foulke gave up home runs late in a tied April game. When I saw the AP box, the Sox looked like the Twins have looked against the Sox, winning by one and leaving only one man on base.

Whine about how the Sox could have lost. Whine about how Crede didn't hit a home run on Sunday when he would have tied the score. The bottom line is this team is winning in ways Sox teams didn't used to win.

Edit: ESPN Web site updates. I don't have access to television.

itsnotrequired
04-19-2005, 12:20 AM
Time for a sig update after tonight's game!:D:

flo-B-flo
04-19-2005, 12:21 AM
I absolutely love the emotion Hermanson continues to show. Regardless of what his role is, he's a winner. He should be the closer.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,against guys Shingo can't get out. Go Sox!

chisox06
04-19-2005, 12:21 AM
An underrated star of this game was Vizcaino. He got into some trouble, but worked his way out of it. A solid two innings of relief.

If Vizcaino is then Hermanson certainly is too. I think Dusty was one of the keys to this one, taking away all the Twins momentum, hes been fantastic this year, gotta give dust some props.

DaleJRFan
04-19-2005, 12:25 AM
...and the wins just keep on coming... way to go Crede, Iguchi, Everett and Hermanson!

PicktoCLick72
04-19-2005, 12:27 AM
And we are doing this with little team offensive production. When this team starts hitting, watch out.

fincher
04-19-2005, 12:29 AM
I'm 1-0. Not going to be able to go to many games except for the weekday afternoon starts.

Good game tonight and great crowd. But, Takatsu worries me a bit and A.J. had two lousy throws to second to beat the steals.

A.T. Money
04-19-2005, 12:33 AM
27k in attendance. Not bad for early April.

It should have been at least 37,000! It claim damn close to hitting 80 degrees today, Monday night half price tix, and you're in first place taking on the other first place team. I was disapointed there wasn't a near sell out.

Cat Thief
04-19-2005, 12:34 AM
I'm 1-0. Not going to be able to go to many games except for the weekday afternoon starts.

Good game tonight and great crowd. But, Takatsu worries me a bit and A.J. had two lousy throws to second to beat the steals.

I was at the game and had a hard time seeing in detail, but didn't Guch drop the one throw?

SOX ADDICT '73
04-19-2005, 12:34 AM
Hey depy48:

Good thing the Sox won this game. Otherwise, the Twins losing would "make no difference". :wink:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=654321#post654321

itsnotrequired
04-19-2005, 12:35 AM
27k in attendance. Not bad for early April.

Any idea on the walkup sales? My friend and I left a ticket at will call for his special lady a little before 6:00. She got there at 6:20 and stood in line for FORTY minutes to get the ticket. By the time she got it, the line was even longer than when she got in it. Took another ten minutes to get through the gate. I noticed people kept pouring into the lower levels through al least the second inning.

Better show up early tomorrow if you are walking up!

flo-B-flo
04-19-2005, 12:36 AM
I have a videogame from 2003-04 and it says that he never swings at the first pitch. Change the settings. Paulie K - as he gets older - will adjust and kill that pitch. A textbook right hand batting swing. Wouldn't doubt if he lasted into his late 30's, forties DHing.

SOX ADDICT '73
04-19-2005, 12:36 AM
Any idea on the walkup sales?
On the radio post-game, Meltie said around 10,000.

itsnotrequired
04-19-2005, 12:38 AM
On the radio post-game, Meltie said around 10,000.

Thanks! Nice total.

SOX ADDICT '73
04-19-2005, 12:41 AM
Ha! Watching BBTN, and no Web Gem for Hunter on Paulie's liner. :bandance:

fincher
04-19-2005, 12:41 AM
I was at the game and had a hard time seeing in detail, but didn't Guch drop the one throw?


He did. But two in the dirt is a bummer and it was on the second throw if memory serves me.

JUribe1989
04-19-2005, 12:42 AM
I was at that game. I lost my voice sitting behind the Twins dugout first row! Some of my favorite hecklings I said were
"There's that patience Gammons is talking about!" After Joe Mauer grounded in to a 1 out bases loaded double play on the first pitch

-and-

"THANKS A LOT TORII, YOU REALLY HELPED US OUT TONIGHT!" As Hunter walked in to the dugout after his game ending groundout

elrod
04-19-2005, 12:43 AM
Being that tomorrow is the final game of the series can we write in Radke for 8 innings of 3 hit shutout ball, and El Duque giving up 7 runs in 6 innings? How about putting some distance between us and those bastards and getting another win!

fincher
04-19-2005, 12:45 AM
How about putting some distance between us and those bastards and getting another win!

Get to Radke early. He's shaky in the early innings. Plus, there's a good chance for rain so getting ahead early and having the game called after 6 innings is still a win.

batmanZoSo
04-19-2005, 12:51 AM
Being that tomorrow is the final game of the series can we write in Radke for 8 innings of 3 hit shutout ball, and El Duque giving up 7 runs in 6 innings? How about putting some distance between us and those bastards and getting another win!

Which trend is stronger--second game of the series (4-0) or third game of the series (0-4)? One of them will end tomorrow.

Even if we lose tomorrow, it's not too bad. We'll still be winning the season series 3-2. Of course 4-1 would be sweet, but I would put money down that the season series will be won by one game, maybe two tops like it has the last few years. These teams play each other tough, so I don't think the head-to-head matchup is going to determine anything. Not to downplay beating the Twins, because it is important to beat them whenever you have the chance, but I believe it's even more important to beat up the rest of the division. That's where they've gotten us the last few years. We play them tough, but we lose too many games to Detroit and Kansas City and they don't.

SOX ADDICT '73
04-19-2005, 12:55 AM
I don't think this has been discussed yet, but did anybody give those ****ing sCrUBS fans who threw back Carl's first HR a hard time? We didn't get to see much of them on TV, but it seemed like they were giddy with excitement at the prospect of throwing a Sox HR ball back onto the field AT HOME. I'm getting steamed just thinking about how those jags are going to boast about it to their idiot friends tomorrow. :angry:

I'd love to hear that someone beat their asses, but that would just perpetuate the stereotype that "Sox fans are nothing but thugs, and USCF isn't a safe place to bring your family." Moron-otti does well enough INVENTING stuff to write about without giving him Viagra to fuel his Sox hard-on.

D. TODD
04-19-2005, 01:04 AM
After the balk Contreras was visably shaken. Where was Ozzie to make a trip to the mound to settle him down. He walks Hunter, forgets about him and he steals second, advancing to third on the throwing error. Still no visit to calm Contreras, who promptly throws a wild pitch giving another key gift run. It was plain to see looking out at Contreras who glanced at the third base umpire a couple of times after the balk before he would throw a pitch. I'm glad Crede & Carl slugged us over those gifts. Well, we found a way to win , and that's the important thing, it felt alot better leaving the park tonight compared to yesterday!:smile:

D. TODD
04-19-2005, 01:09 AM
I don't think this has been discussed yet, but did anybody give those ****ing sCrUBS fans who threw back Carl's first HR a hard time? We didn't get to see much of them on TV, but it seemed like they were giddy with excitement at the prospect of throwing a Sox HR ball back onto the field AT HOME. I'm getting steamed just thinking about how those jags are going to boast about it to their idiot friends tomorrow. :angry:

I'd love to hear that someone beat their asses, but that would just perpetuate the stereotype that "Sox fans are nothing but thugs, and USCF isn't a safe place to bring your family." Moron-otti does well enough INVENTING stuff to write about without giving him Viagra to fuel his Sox hard-on. As long as they were promptly removed from the park I will be happy. I can't understand fans who go to another teams park and trash talk, they are asking for a beat down. When I travel to see the Sox I cheer for them, but never taunt the home crowd, that's just plain stupid!

Gosox1917
04-19-2005, 01:09 AM
Just got back from the game. Good to see the Sox pull out the win, even if we need to use the loooong ball a few times. The umpires sucked all night. The strikezone went from tiny in the first to pretty darn big by the eighth. Also, I was down the first base line kinda far, but I sure as hell didn't see anything that would have a balk be called.

Couple of fights broke out, one in the bleachers and another a section over from me. People decided that the fight was more important than the game and it took a long time before security even did anything. Beer vendors were breaking up the fight before the security showed up. Anyway, it was an overall enjoyable time. My heart about stopped three times in the game though, luckily defense was able to get us out of some major problems.

Well, that's all I have to say, good win boys. GO SOX!!

elrod
04-19-2005, 01:12 AM
Those morons who tossed the ball back onto the field should have been pummeled, period. And THEN escorted from the park. They are not White Sox fans. They are the trash Cub fans that came to OUR ballpark and attacked the umpire a couple years ago. Nobody should be allowed to show such disrespect to the White Sox on our own turf. There is nothing thuggish about taking care of a few idiots who throw a White Sox home run on to the field.

shoota
04-19-2005, 01:13 AM
I don't think this has been discussed yet, but did anybody give those ****ing sCrUBS fans who threw back Carl's first HR a hard time? We didn't get to see much of them on TV, but it seemed like they were giddy with excitement at the prospect of throwing a Sox HR ball back onto the field AT HOME. I'm getting steamed just thinking about how those jags are going to boast about it to their idiot friends tomorrow. :angry:

I'd love to hear that someone beat their asses, but that would just perpetuate the stereotype that "Sox fans are nothing but thugs, and USCF isn't a safe place to bring your family." Moron-otti does well enough INVENTING stuff to write about without giving him Viagra to fuel his Sox hard-on.

I was in their section of the bleachers trying my best by yelling, "Keep it. Don't throw it back," though I was pretty far in front of them. I didn't see that they were Cubs fans. There were a lot of people telling them to throw it back so we have a lot of work to do to spread the word not to throw homerun balls back. OTOH, that foul ball that was thrown at Shannon Stewart in Left Field was just hilarious.

I was at the game and had clear view of Crede, and he did nothing extraordinary on defense tonight. In fact, on the play that he dove for, his throw pulled Paulie off the bag--as we were just commenting on today--allowing the baserunner to be safe. But he did hit a game-tying two run home run to the right of me, so I'm not going to criticize him today. Since last season, in most every game I attend Crede hits a home run.

This was a fun game to attend, but I do have a couple of problems. Bad job by Contreras and AJ letting Torii walk and score on a terrible sequence of events.

And *** was Ozzie doing letting Cotts warm up in a tie game? Especially one against the Twins. Anyone notice Cotts getting his ass saved by Vizcaino after Cotts walked the leadoff man to start the inning? Good golly, Cotts sucks.

Anyone sitting in the bleachers tonight see a group of Twins fans in the third row? One guy had a Kent Hrbak jersey and a Twins helmet, which stopped a lot of debris that was thrown at him every time he stood up and taunted Sox fans. At one point, a cool Sox fan took his helmet and played keep away from him, and another one did the same to his Twins sign he was waving in our faces.

mdep524
04-19-2005, 01:25 AM
Nice win today- Carl is the man.

I know it's not good to second guess a manager after a win, but once again I have to question Ozzie's decision to lift a relief pitcher who was cruising. Was there a good reason to take Hermanson out of the game for the ninth inning? Just to pad Shingo's stats?

Ozzie has shown this blind devotion to putting his "closer" in for the 9th inning in a save situation whether the real situation calls for it or not. Today was a perfect example. Hermanson threw 11 pitches in the 8th inning, and struck out two batters. He was clearly in a groove, why pull him?? If he gets in trouble in the 9th, you have Marte and Shingo to fall back on. Why burn a reliever when you don't have to?

Sure it worked out well tonight, but it has backfired in the past and I question this practice in general.

SOX ADDICT '73
04-19-2005, 01:28 AM
The way I feel about fans of other teams (including the sCrUBS) coming to USCF is the same way I feel about them posting on WSI. They are in our house, and need to conduct themselves respectfully. If they can manage to do that, then we are able to co-exist. If they act trollish, and we smack them around in response, then they're only getting what's coming to them.

In Milwaukee 2 weeks ago, I was decked out in Sox gear and rooting loudly for my team. But at no time did I jeer any of the Brewers players, and the Milwaukee fans left me alone. If the Twins-helmet-guy or those ball-throwing Cubs fans were acting like jackasses, then I hope they were dealt with appropriately.
:duel:

gosox3072
04-19-2005, 01:43 AM
I just got back from the game and wow.....it was unbelieveable. Probably one of the most fun games id ever been to. Theres something about the first one you go to every year that gets you!!!!!! Plus the sox won....that helped too!

I also thought it was pretty funny when a fan threw back a foul ball that shannon stewart threw into the stands. We were ripping him a new one the entire game and i think he was getting annoyed a little. As for the home run, i yelled (even though by then my voice was about gone) that that dude should go back to wrigley.

I did see many drunk people in the crowd (possibly myself included), but for the most part i thought most people were pretty well mannered and were just cheering on the sox. There were some random cubs s*uck cheers when the cubs lost but for the most part it wasnt too bad

SOX ADDICT '73
04-19-2005, 01:51 AM
I also thought it was pretty funny when a fan threw back a foul ball that shannon stewart threw into the stands.
I didn't realize that this is what happened...and I'm sorry, but it disappoints me.

I always like it when an opposing player tosses a ball into the stands for the home crowd. It's a class move, and it makes it possible for a fan, maybe even a little kid, to come away with a ball initially hit by one of our players.

Plus, Stewart doesn't strike me as a jag-off of the Hunter/Jones/Crisp/Belly-ard variety. I only hate him because he kills the Sox at the plate and in the field.

TheBull19
04-19-2005, 01:55 AM
Nice win today- Carl is the man.



I thought this might be a good time to unveil my new sig.

mealfred13
04-19-2005, 01:58 AM
I was at the game and had clear view of Crede, and he did nothing extraordinary on defense tonight. In fact, on the play that he dove for, his throw pulled Paulie off the bag--as we were just commenting on today--allowing the baserunner to be safe.

That play that he dove for should have been a double. We're lucky he stopped that ball and prevented the run on base from scoring. Just because it looked easy from your perspective doesn't mean it was, and many third basemen would have seen that ball go by them.

In addition, at least 2 or 3 stops he made, including one of the double plays he turned and the final out of the game were on in-between hops that he picked up really nicely. Both of those could have been bobbled.

Knock his offense all you want, but don't act like his defense is average. He saved us at least 3 runs with his glove alone today.

Unregistered
04-19-2005, 01:59 AM
I thought this might be a good time to unveil my new sig. Carl inspired me as well... :D:

mealfred13
04-19-2005, 02:03 AM
Nice win today- Carl is the man.

I know it's not good to second guess a manager after a win, but once again I have to question Ozzie's decision to lift a relief pitcher who was cruising. Was there a good reason to take Hermanson out of the game for the ninth inning? Just to pad Shingo's stats?

Ozzie has shown this blind devotion to putting his "closer" in for the 9th inning in a save situation whether the real situation calls for it or not. Today was a perfect example. Hermanson threw 11 pitches in the 8th inning, and struck out two batters. He was clearly in a groove, why pull him?? If he gets in trouble in the 9th, you have Marte and Shingo to fall back on. Why burn a reliever when you don't have to?

Sure it worked out well tonight, but it has backfired in the past and I question this practice in general.

In a way, I agree with you. I was really hoping to see Hermanson out there in the 9th. However, I wouldn't say it was necessarily a bad move to bring Shingo in to close, since that's his job and he's proven he can do it at the major-league level. However, I was kind of leery with the fact that Hermanson was now out of the game, and only Marte was left in the pen to close out the game if something had happened with Shingo's attempt to close. Luckily, Ozzie didn't hurt the team with the move, and if anything, gave Shingo back some confidence. That alone may be good for Shingo for the long run, which is also good for the team, but I would have waited until a non-critical game against someone besides the Twins to do that, especially with Dustin pitching the way he was.

I won't second-guess a winning decision though, so I'm just gonna assume Ozzie knows what he's doing. With the team at 9-4, I can't complain.

shoota
04-19-2005, 02:08 AM
That play that he dove for should have been a double. We're lucky he stopped that ball and prevented the run on base from scoring. Just because it looked easy from your perspective doesn't mean it was, and many third basemen would have seen that ball go by them.

In addition, at least 2 or 3 stops he made, including one of the double plays he turned and the final out of the game were on in-between hops that he picked up really nicely. Both of those could have been bobbled.

Knock his offense all you want, but don't act like his defense is average. He saved us at least 3 runs with his glove alone today.

Incorrect. If he doesn't make those plays, they're errors--with the possible exception to the one he dived for--but that didn't matter anyway as his throw was wild, allowing the runner to be safe.

mealfred13
04-19-2005, 02:21 AM
Incorrect. If he doesn't make those plays, they're errors--with the possible exception to the one he dove for--but that didn't matter anyway as his throw was wild, allowing the runner to be safe.

What's incorrect? The diving stop should have been a single or double scoring a run from second. Who cares if the throw wasn't inline. He didn't have enough time to make a good throw. Read the boxscore. It was ruled an infield single for obvious reasons.

And the fact the not making the other plays would have meant they were errors has no bearing on the fact that they could have prevent Joe from turning the DP and/or rushing a throw to first as the case may be. All it means is he did his job, and did it well.

SOX ADDICT '73
04-19-2005, 02:23 AM
Incorrect. If he doesn't make those plays, they're errors--with the possible exception to the one he dove for--but that didn't matter anyway as his throw was wild, allowing the runner to be safe.
shoota, give it a rest! You're just going to have to come to grips with the fact that Crede was one of the few guys who actually contributed to a huge win tonight. If you want to predict he'll go back to sucking as early as tomorrow, that's your choice. But you're losing credibility by continuing to bash him after a night like he had.

dcb33
04-19-2005, 02:36 AM
shoota, give it a rest! You're just going to have to come to grips with the fact that Crede was one of the few guys who actually contributed to a huge win tonight. If you want to predict he'll go back to sucking as early as tomorrow, that's your choice. But you're losing credibility by continuing to bash him after a night like he had.

Your post pretty much sums up the whole situation about Joe Crede- he isn't that good but he comes through just enough that he'll make you feel bad and look stupid for criticizing him. It's like that scene from Office Space- he does just enough not to get fired.

shoota
04-19-2005, 02:48 AM
And the fact the not making the other plays would have meant they were errors has no bearing on the fact that they could have prevent Joe from turning the DP and/or rushing a throw to first as the case may be. All it means is he did his job, and did it well.

Agreed. He did his job. He made the plays that every MLB 3bman should make. He didn't make the play that Gold Glovers make (wild throw that pulled Paulie off the bag), but Joe's definately not a GGer. I was just pointing out that his defensive play tonight was nothing special, and it was directed at those using Credeganda to overinflate his actual average defensive efforts.

Come on, we're all Sox fans. I'm not pessimistic. I'm really happy about today's victory, the first one I got to see live this year. Crede got me on my feet cheering with his two run bomb.

owensmouth
04-19-2005, 03:15 AM
I'm relistening to the game and two plays in particular. The play at second: the runner was safe at second because Uribe never stepped on the bag.

Farmer called the balk before the third base umpire.

What the heck, we won.

mealfred13
04-19-2005, 03:49 AM
I'm relistening to the game and two plays in particular. The play at second: the runner was safe at second because Uribe never stepped on the bag.

Farmer called the balk before the third base umpire.

What the heck, we won.

Wow, what did Farmer say the Balk was for? Because the ump didn't really clarify to anyone during the game, and no one else saw anything.

SoxWillWin
04-19-2005, 05:18 AM
Agreed. He did his job. He made the plays that every MLB 3bman should make. He didn't make the play that Gold Glovers make (wild throw that pulled Paulie off the bag), but Joe's definately not a GGer.

Okay, so Since I didn't see the game can anyone tell me if Crede's "average" defense DIRECTLY CONTRIBUTED TO A TWINS RUN??????????????? If so fine, if not give the guy a break already. He's not the only one on this team who has made errors. Uribe has 2 and there are four others with one.

SoxFan76
04-19-2005, 05:58 AM
Man, I was at the game today and it was incredible. The most fun I've had at a Sox game since the game in 2003 against the Angels when Frank hit that line drive down the left field line to win the game. I have NO voice left.

I was screaming "Go back to Wrigley!" after that idiot threw back the ball. I scared my new friend in front of me though. (she was a little girl, couldn't of been older than 5)

From where I was sitting (Sec 148 row 5) I thought Crede's hit was a double that would of just gone over Stewart's head. I never thought that thing would go over the wall.

SOXintheBURGH
04-19-2005, 08:53 AM
Wow.. just wow. I was in the WSI chat room last night for a few innings then my girlfriend pulled me away right after the Crede 2-run shot so I missed the ending. 3-1 against the Twins is exactly what this team needs.. since we don't play them for a few months lets put the boots on their throats. Beat on Radke, and go up 4-1.:gulp:

ma_deuce
04-19-2005, 09:04 AM
I hope [Crede] proves me wrong about needing a replacement, though...:bandance:

I wholeheartedly agree. Crow tastes good with a White Sox victory, and I'm more than happy to eat it. Hopefully, Crede can keep it up.

:D:

WhteSox725
04-19-2005, 09:12 AM
Couple of fights broke out, one in the bleachers and another a section over from me. People decided that the fight was more important than the game and it took a long time before security even did anything. Beer vendors were breaking up the fight before the security showed up.

I was in the club level right above the fight down the first base line. It took a good couple minutes for the security guards to show up. I don't know what words were exchanged or anything but it was a real class act of the guy throwing his blood at other people. The only staff person I saw in the area trying to break the fight up was the Cracker Jack vendor. I wonder where all the security was.

WhteSox725
04-19-2005, 09:14 AM
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20050419/capt.ilbk10304190238.twins_white_sox_ilbk103.jpg

i love this picture after his second homer tonight. that's not a "i hope it goes out" look, it's a "damn, i crushed that one" look.

He definitely got all of that one. The second he hit it you knew it was gone.

Bias
04-19-2005, 09:20 AM
Man, I was at the game today and it was incredible. The most fun I've had at a Sox game since the game in 2003 against the Angels when Frank hit that line drive down the left field line to win the game. I have NO voice left.


From where I was sitting (Sec 148 row 5) I thought Crede's hit was a double that would of just gone over Stewart's head. I never thought that thing would go over the wall.

I was at the game as well and I can't remember the last time I was at THAT good of a game. Not good in terms of well-played, but in terms of excitement, drama etc. Crowd was pumped and I think it was so much sweeter that Hunter made the final out.

Crede's HR was funny, the guy next to me was yellin' "get down, get down," while I was yellin' "get up, get up!" From behind the dish, it looked like it had the distance, but not the height.

Earlier, bottom of the 1st, D. Todd asked me who I chose as PTC...for a second I was stumped, but when I looked at the Plate Everett was there and I remembered and said, "Everett" as he turned on the pitch and put one on the board.

converted
04-19-2005, 09:21 AM
I was in the club level right above the fight down the first base line. It took a good couple minutes for the security guards to show up. I don't know what words were exchanged or anything but it was a real class act of the guy throwing his blood at other people. The only staff person I saw in the area trying to break the fight up was the Cracker Jack vendor. I wonder where all the security was.

GREAT GAME for me to take my little brother to! He got to see me go from being completely :angry: to really:D: ! I could've done without all of the fights, however. I was sitting in the bleachers (not close to any fights), but I think I could see every single one from my angle. It takes the crowd's attention away from the game and really gets me annoyed. But hey, we won, my brother got to see lots of fireworks, and my record has improved to 2-0!!!!:bandance: I just wish I didn't have to see any of the drunk fighting nonsense!

mike squires
04-19-2005, 09:44 AM
Man, another WCIU game. I hate it!!! Wasn't able to catch it. I went to the chat room and initially let me in but then it was showing I was the only one in the chat room. I ended up turning in by 9:45. Was happy to see the score about 3 in the morning.

I'm sure it's been mentioned but I really don't have time to go through 134 posts. Another one run win. Beautiful!

jabrch
04-19-2005, 09:47 AM
About Contreras getting squeezed, that happens when you don't initially throw strikes, and you have a reputation for being wild. Contreras can be his own worst enemy.


That's bull****. He threw strikes. He got ahead of most of the hittes. He had a ton of 0-2s where he THEN went out and lost the guys because he wasn't getting calls with 0-2. He was not initially not throwing strikes. He threw a lot of good stuff to get ahead in counts.

D. TODD
04-19-2005, 10:00 AM
Wow, what did Farmer say the Balk was for? Because the ump didn't really clarify to anyone during the game, and no one else saw anything. I called the balk before as well, but that was because the third base ump threw his arms up for the balk just before Contraras threw his pitch. Then as the pitch was thrown he waited until the pitch was complete to finish his call (which is proper for the ump to do). I believe I heard Farmer's call on the way home and he said he did not see the balk on the replay.

mcfish
04-19-2005, 10:13 AM
I am surprised that everyone thought it was such a good game to be at. I was scared and disappointed most of the game. I couldn't really tell balls and strikes from section 119, so I have no idea if Contreras was being squeezed on 2 strike counts, but there is no way any pitcher should walk multiple batters in a game after going 0-2 on them. 3 home runs are always fun, but I've been to better games in the past. I was at a better game on Opening Day.

Now, the reasons I posted:
1) Haven't seen a replay, but I saw both the first and third base umps call the balk. Dissappointing to say the least, but I figured if they both saw it, it probably happened.
2) Iguchi's throw to second - was the runner really out? It was too close for me to see. I was disappointed that he decided to go to second with the throw on a grounder that deep in the hole, and I was confused that Uribe just stood there with the ball after instead of trying to go to first or even tagging the runner who either did or almost did come off the bag.
3) I haven't seen this one mentioned yet, but I think we got away with one with Uribe's missed tag on the Cuddyer CS in the sixth. Anyone see it on TV that can comment on the play. From where I was, it looked like Uribe completely missed the tag and the ump called him out because the ball beat Cuddyer by so much.

Sorry to sound negative: it's great to get any and all wins, and especially on days like that where many things went wrong. These were just the questions and comments that I had about the game. There's not much to debate about 2 run home runs, or I would have mentioned them in point 4. Certainly keep them coming though!

Ol' No. 2
04-19-2005, 10:16 AM
Was it my imagination, or was Contreras in serious snail mode? Once Cooper came out and talked with him in the first, he picked it up and became much more effective. He seemed to pitch OK the second through fourth, but as soon as he got someone on base in the fifth he went back into snail mode. I think Buehrle could finish an entire inning in the time it takes Contreras to fire off one pitch.

mcfish
04-19-2005, 10:19 AM
Was it my imagination, or was Contreras in serious snail mode? Once Cooper came out and talked with him in the first, he picked it up and became much more effective. He seemed to pitch OK the second through fourth, but as soon as he got someone on base in the fifth he went back into snail mode. I think Buehrle could finish an entire inning in the time it takes Contreras to fire off one pitch.It wasn't just you. And thank goodness for it too, because I was waiting in a long line for a roast beef sandwich in 110 because I didn't have time to eat before I came to the park!

Ol' No. 2
04-19-2005, 10:22 AM
It wasn't just you. And thank goodness for it too, because I was waiting in a long line for a roast beef sandwich in 110 because I didn't have time to eat before I came to the park!Did he not seem to pick up the pace after Cooper came out in the first inning? He seemed to be much more effective after that, until the fifth, when he went back to snail mode. That's Pierzynski's job to keep him moving, although if he won't throw the damn ball, I guess there's not a lot you can do.

mcfish
04-19-2005, 10:26 AM
Did he not seem to pick up the pace after Cooper came out in the first inning? He seemed to be much more effective after that, until the fifth, when he went back to snail mode. That's Pierzynski's job to keep him moving, although if he won't throw the damn ball, I guess there's not a lot you can do.Well, his normal pace is pretty slow as it is, but you are correct, most of that 1st inning was brutal. 36 pitches and it took a loooong time. IIRC, the fifth is when the two runs scored on bonehead Sox plays and he was pulled: I could understand a snails pace after your team costs you a run by throwing one into centerfield and then not blocking a ball in the dirt (not to say it was AJ's fault, but Contreras might have thought so). That's the only explanation I can think of.

Baby Fisk
04-19-2005, 10:32 AM
I don't want to start a brawl over this, but... (:rolleyes: )

...it looked like Pierzynski was disrupting Contreras's already-slow rhythm last night. At one point, he appeared to call time just as Contreras went into his windup. The catcher is not supposed to draw attention to himself, but Pierzynski makes a lot of odd movements when he should be settling himself behind the plate. I know this is an observation based on watching it on TV, so I'll just bury it in this thread and see if anyone else noticed the same thing. Also, feel free to tell me to **** and stop overanalyzing. :cool:

Ol' No. 2
04-19-2005, 10:35 AM
I don't want to start a brawl over this, but... (:rolleyes: )

...it looked like Pierzynski was disrupting Contreras's already-slow rythym last night. At one point, he appeared to call time just as Contreras went into his windup. The catcher is not supposed to draw attention to himself, but Pierzynski makes a lot of odd movements when he should be settling himself behind the plate. I know this is an observation based on watching it on TV, so I'll just bury it in this thread and see if anyone else noticed the same thing. Also, feel free to tell me to **** and stop overanalyzing. :cool:I thought that was a little odd, too. Who calls time when your pitcher is in his windup?

mdep524
04-19-2005, 11:27 AM
In a way, I agree with you. I was really hoping to see Hermanson out there in the 9th. However, I wouldn't say it was necessarily a bad move to bring Shingo in to close, since that's his job and he's proven he can do it at the major-league level. However, I was kind of leery with the fact that Hermanson was now out of the game, and only Marte was left in the pen to close out the game if something had happened with Shingo's attempt to close. Luckily, Ozzie didn't hurt the team with the move, and if anything, gave Shingo back some confidence. That alone may be good for Shingo for the long run, which is also good for the team, but I would have waited until a non-critical game against someone besides the Twins to do that, especially with Dustin pitching the way he was. Another advantage to not blindly bringing in your closer for the ninth. If Shingo struggled, I think Politte, who pitched yesterday, would be the only righty available to bail him out or go extra innings (and of course Marte from the left side). If Ozzie stuck with Hermanson, he's got Shingo waiting to back him up.

Flight #24
04-19-2005, 11:35 AM
Another advantage to not blindly bringing in your closer for the ninth. If Shingo struggled, I think Politte, who pitched yesterday, would be the only righty available to bail him out or go extra innings (and of course Marte from the left side). If Ozzie stuck with Hermanson, he's got Shingo waiting to back him up.

IMO Ozzie's point was to try and get Shingo some confidence and show that he still believes in him. You can argue the importance of that win, but Ozzie can't already relegate Shingo to mop-up duty, can't already shift him to being a setup man, and can't already say "you lost your job, it's closer by committee". It's barely 2 weeks into the season, he needs to stick with him and try to get him back & rolling.

That means putting him into "closer" situations, which is what he did, and Shingo came through. Hopefully he can build on that.

mdep524
04-19-2005, 11:40 AM
IMO Ozzie's point was to try and get Shingo some confidence and show that he still believes in him. You can argue the importance of that win, but Ozzie can't already relegate Shingo to mop-up duty, can't already shift him to being a setup man, and can't already say "you lost your job, it's closer by committee". It's barely 2 weeks into the season, he needs to stick with him and try to get him back & rolling.

That means putting him into "closer" situations, which is what he did, and Shingo came through. Hopefully he can build on that. I agree: Shingo is the closer. I think he'll excel again this season, these April home runs notwithstanding. My point has nothing to do with Shingo's mini-slump- I'm saying that in general if a reliever cruises through the 8th inning on 11 piches, he should come back out for the ninth to perserve that momentum and give his manager more options.

Do we have to go to Shingo in the ninth of every save situation just because he is the closer?

Flight #24
04-19-2005, 11:43 AM
I agree: Shingo is the closer. I think he'll excel again this season, these April home runs notwithstanding. My point has nothing to do with Shingo's mini-slump- I'm saying that in general if a reliever cruises through the 8th inning on 11 piches, he should come back out for the ninth to perserve that momentum and give his manager more options.

Do we have to go to Shingo in the ninth of every save situation just because he is the closer?

No, but I think in the current situation where Shingo might be having some confidence issues, it's better to get him "right back on". Keeping Hermanson in would let him fester a bit more, and could signal that Ozzie doesn't believe in him. I would think that if he's back on track, then you'd see Hermanson stick around more in that situation.

mcfish
04-19-2005, 11:46 AM
Does Tom Gordon pitch the ninth when the Yankees are up 5-3 or does Rivera come in? There's no question, no matter what the situation - Rivera.

Why should it be different here? Shingo is our closer until further notice. That means that he should be used in save situations. What is so difficult to understand about this?

Iwritecode
04-19-2005, 11:46 AM
Another advantage to not blindly bringing in your closer for the ninth. If Shingo struggled, I think Politte, who pitched yesterday, would be the only righty available to bail him out or go extra innings (and of course Marte from the left side). If Ozzie stuck with Hermanson, he's got Shingo waiting to back him up.

Shingo is the closer and he's going to be there in the 9th inning. He's gotten the job done 90% of the time and Ozzie has confidence in him.

Besides, if Hermanson goes 2 innings, then he might not be as fresh for tonights game...

Ol' No. 2
04-19-2005, 11:48 AM
I agree: Shingo is the closer. I think he'll excel again this season, these April home runs notwithstanding. My point has nothing to do with Shingo's mini-slump- I'm saying that in general if a reliever cruises through the 8th inning on 11 piches, he should come back out for the ninth to perserve that momentum and give his manager more options.

Do we have to go to Shingo in the ninth of every save situation just because he is the closer?I've always thought that blindly sticking with one guy just because he wears the mantle of "Closer" is silly. Use the best guy for the situation. As long as Shingo is struggling against lefties, it's nutty to use him against a string of lefties just because it's the 9th inning. Last night, Marte was warmed up in the 9th, and if Shingo had not gotten Hunter out, there's no way he would have faced Jones.

I think it's also good to avoid having teams see Shingo on successive nights. He depends on deception, and deception becomes less effective the more you see it.

Lip Man 1
04-19-2005, 11:51 AM
I have rewatched the 'balk' call in slo motion and so forth at least a half dozen times now and I still haven't seen anything. I was hoping for an explination in the paper today but saw no umpire comments.

In my opinion Contreras did not balk, he didn't break stride, drop his hands, take his foot off the rubber or anything like that.

I'm sure Ozzie got an explination. I'd just like to know what he did.

Lip

Ol' No. 2
04-19-2005, 11:53 AM
I have rewatched the 'balk' call in slo motion and so forth at least a half dozen times now and I still haven't seen anything. I was hoping for an explination in the paper today but saw no umpire comments.

In my opinion Contreras did not balk, he didn't break stride, drop his hands, take his foot off the rubber or anything like that.

I'm sure Ozzie got an explination. I'd just like to know what he did.

LipI was looking at his back, so I didn't see it. I thought I heard Farmer say he moved his hands after he came to the set position.

Iwritecode
04-19-2005, 11:54 AM
1) Haven't seen a replay, but I saw both the first and third base umps call the balk. Dissappointing to say the least, but I figured if they both saw it, it probably happened.


You can check out the replay on whitesox.com. I watched it and didn't see a balk.

mdep524
04-19-2005, 12:01 PM
Does Tom Gordon pitch the ninth when the Yankees are up 5-3 or does Rivera come in? There's no question, no matter what the situation - Rivera.

Why should it be different here? Shingo is our closer until further notice. That means that he should be used in save situations. What is so difficult to understand about this? No offense, but this is pretty lousy logic. Just because someone is called "closer" does not mean he must come in for every 9th inning save situation. I'm not going to take the bait and say "but Shingo is not as good as Rivera and the Sox aren't the Yankees" because that's not my point.

Also, Hermanson only threw 11 pitches in the 8th, so I don't think fatigue was a concern, even carried over to today. If it was, I agree that there is no question Shingo should come in for the 9th.

FARMEO
04-19-2005, 12:16 PM
I have rewatched the 'balk' call in slo motion and so forth at least a half dozen times now and I still haven't seen anything. I was hoping for an explination in the paper today but saw no umpire comments.

In my opinion Contreras did not balk, he didn't break stride, drop his hands, take his foot off the rubber or anything like that.

I'm sure Ozzie got an explination. I'd just like to know what he did.

Lip

According to the Twin's MLB site "Contreras was called for a balk for double pumping on the rubber" - I haven't seen a replay yet.

batmanZoSo
04-19-2005, 12:22 PM
Also, Hermanson only threw 11 pitches in the 8th, so I don't think fatigue was a concern, even carried over to today. If it was, I agree that there is no question Shingo should come in for the 9th

The way he's pitching, I'm glad he was taken out knowing we won. He can throw two innings tonight if needed, and with Radke going tonight odds are it'll be a close game and relief will have to come through again. Ozzie figures Shingo's his closer and he's GOT to be able to hold a two run lead. He's not going to dance around and sweat over who to put in because Shingo's been shaky lately. And he realizes that Shingo's been getting tagged for solo homers, so he has some breathing room there. He hasn't been walking people left and right (Koch), he just keeps missing and giving up long ball. And every time Shingo gets a save, his confidence goes up--every time Ozzie goes to him, for that matter. Now if we need two innings out of Hermanson, he can do it.

faneidde
04-19-2005, 12:27 PM
Didn't get to see the game last night and only saw the score at the bar I was at last night, so I watched about an hour and a half of ESPN looking for highlights and I got about 10 stinkin seconds. Of course, Sportscenter shows the Yankmees for about 5 minutes against the Devil Rays. Good thing 2 losing teams is more important to the Eastern Sports Programming Network than a battle for first in the AL Central. Oh well, great win, maybe I can catch a replay or some highlights on Comcast.

ma-gaga
04-19-2005, 12:38 PM
According to the Twin's MLB site "Contreras was called for a balk for double pumping on the rubber" - I haven't seen a replay yet.

The Twins radio broadcast said that Al Newman their 3rd base coach was pointing out to the 3rd base ump something that Conteras was doing several times. So the ump was being 'worked', he just happened to call it with a runner on third... That was suspicious.

I heard some of the game, and saw some of the game. Crede's golf shot was a great swing on a good pitch, there's no way he should be swinging at that kind of junk. Everett has simply KILLED the Twins this year. I would freaking walk the guy every time.

I didn't see Conteras pitch, but I did see Hermanson pitch. He was definitely NOT getting squeezed. L.Ford doesn't get called out on strikes more than 5 times this year, so that call was pretty brutal for the Twins. But it sounded like there were plenty of calls against the W.Sox earlier, so what can you do?

Is Conteras's game to induce groundballs?? It certainly worked to perfection last night. The Twins choked pretty badly all night long.

:gulp: It sucks that there's no more inter rivalry games until August. That's absolutely terrible.

mjharrison72
04-19-2005, 12:41 PM
I was in their section of the bleachers trying my best by yelling, "Keep it. Don't throw it back," though I was pretty far in front of them. I didn't see that they were Cubs fans. There were a lot of people telling them to throw it back so we have a lot of work to do to spread the word not to throw homerun balls back. OTOH, that foul ball that was thrown at Shannon Stewart in Left Field was just hilarious.
There is NEVER an excuse to throw something at any player on any field, on any team. Shame on you for thinking such actions would be "hilarious.":o:

chisoxmike
04-19-2005, 12:42 PM
It sucks that there's no more inter rivalry games until August. That's absolutely terrible.

The Sox battle for 4th place with the Royals this weekend!

Iwritecode
04-19-2005, 12:58 PM
The Twins radio broadcast said that Al Newman their 3rd base coach was pointing out to the 3rd base ump something that Conteras was doing several times. So the ump was being 'worked', he just happened to call it with a runner on third... That was suspicious.

That makes it even more interesting because if it's something he does every time then it should be considered part of his normal windup IMO.

The Twins choked pretty badly all night long.

When's the last time anyone has said that after they played the Sox? :?: :D:

voodoochile
04-19-2005, 01:06 PM
Agreed. He did his job. He made the plays that every MLB 3bman should make. He didn't make the play that Gold Glovers make (wild throw that pulled Paulie off the bag), but Joe's definately not a GGer. I was just pointing out that his defensive play tonight was nothing special, and it was directed at those using Credeganda to overinflate his actual average defensive efforts.

Come on, we're all Sox fans. I'm not pessimistic. I'm really happy about today's victory, the first one I got to see live this year. Crede got me on my feet cheering with his two run bomb.

Okay, he still saved a run by keeping the ball in the infield and it is highly unlikely the throw beats the runner anyway from what I saw of the replays, so even if the throw is dead on line, it is still probably a hit.

When the next guy was retired, the runner was stranded at 3rd and thus Crede's AMAZING diving stop clearly saved a run AND THUS effectively WON THE GAME FOR THE SOX...

Can you at least admit it when the guy does something right? That way when you go off on one of your lame ass rants, it might carry more weight. At this point you are strictly a hater.

voodoochile
04-19-2005, 01:10 PM
According to the Twin's MLB site "Contreras was called for a balk for double pumping on the rubber" - I haven't seen a replay yet.

The replays I saw showed two things that looked suspicious:

1) Did he take a full 1 second pause?

2) He seemed to double tap the rubber with his right foot while throwing to home. I don't know if this is a balk or is legal while pitching from the stretch, but it did look weird.

maurice
04-19-2005, 01:14 PM
Wow, lots of diversity of opinion in this thread. I was at the game and thought I'd chime in on some of the things already mentioned:
- Nice loud crowd but two major fights, a lazy security response, and too many dip****s in cub gear. *** is that? Can't they just add cubs gear to the "banned objects" list under the reasonable presumption that these idiots are there just to cause trouble?
- When an object is thrown onto the field, the Sox need to respond immediately by ejecting the "fan" and making an announcement reminding folks that violaters will be ejected. Maybe incorporate part of the radio ad. This has gone on for too long.
- Contrares threw way too many pitches early, but he battled admirably to keep the Sox in the game. He easily could have given up twice as many runs. Cotts was fine in very limited action.
- All three Sox HR were absolutely crushed. Crede's had an extremely low trajectory and got out very quickly.
- The defense was not particularly good. Every play the Sox made should have been made, including Crede's plays. Better defensive play would have resulted in a few more outs and fewer twin runs. For example, AJ skipped a couple of throws, the MIF didn't pick them, and Rowand sailed a throw home.
- Torii Hunter's defense is extremely overrated. His breaks and routes on fly balls are horrible. The plays look good on Sports Center, because they only show the last 2 seconds. He zig zagged 4 times on a fly ball hit to his right.

Ol' No. 2
04-19-2005, 01:51 PM
You can check out the replay on whitesox.com. I watched it and didn't see a balk.I looked, but I couldn't find it. Got a link?

PaleHoseGeorge
04-19-2005, 01:58 PM
My favorite game highlight came in the ninth inning, watching Toriiiii have to schlep his ass down to first base after beating the ball into the dirt for the game's final out. It's always fun to see the biggest instigator go down like a punk for the final out, running it out just to make it look good.

Watching Toriiii cross the bag 3 steps after the game ended was choice stuff.
:cool:

DaleJRFan
04-19-2005, 02:01 PM
The replays I saw showed two things that looked suspicious:

1) Did he take a full 1 second pause?

2) He seemed to double tap the rubber with his right foot while throwing to home. I don't know if this is a balk or is legal while pitching from the stretch, but it did look weird.

I watched it over and over and over again on the DVR and it was a questionable call for one reason, the way he paused when he turned his right foot moving over the rubber. He wasn't touching the rubber when he took the sign. I'll have to doublecheck, but if I recall correctly, if your foot is not on the rubber when you take the sign with a man on base, you have to pause before you move to homeplate. Any help on the rule would be appreciated.

While the call could go either way, which in most cases, if it isn't an obvious balk, it does get called.... the Sox won so I'm over it. But, I am not over the fact that Contreras is out there goofing around with off-speed crap walking guys. If it weren't for amazing defense, it wouldn't have been close.

I'll tell ya what, Iguchi is the real deal and Hermanson keeps showing a strong case for himself to be moved into the closer role.

Iwritecode
04-19-2005, 02:23 PM
I looked, but I couldn't find it. Got a link?

Looks like they took it down. All I see now are the two Everett homeruns and the Crede homerun. :(:

MRKARNO
04-19-2005, 03:37 PM
Is Conteras's game to induce groundballs?? It certainly worked to perfection last night.


When he's at his best, barely nothing gets hit to the outfielder; it all stays in the infield. When he's at his worst, the ball isn't finding the strikezone and when it does, he gives up more hits and such. I find he does better when he works quickly and worse when he goes Steve Trachsel on us.

BarbG
04-19-2005, 04:32 PM
Nobody's mentioned Aaron's check-swing Physics lesson on motion transference. One of the funniest things I've ever seen at the park.

That guy doesn't do anything halfway.

mcfish
04-19-2005, 04:49 PM
- Contrares threw way too many pitches early, but he battled admirably to keep the Sox in the game. He easily could have given up twice as many runs. Cotts was fine in very limited action.
Cotts would be great to have on the roster if we could limit him to 1/3 of an inning every outing and yank him the second he walks a guy or gives up a hit. It's those outings when he stays in the game that the trouble starts.

jabrch
04-19-2005, 04:57 PM
The Twins radio broadcast said that Al Newman their 3rd base coach was pointing out to the 3rd base ump something that Conteras was doing several times. So the ump was being 'worked', he just happened to call it with a runner on third... That was suspicious.

We were sitting a few rows down from Newman. And he was working the ump...HARD...all game. FWIW, Newman has the largest ass in Twins history - and I know that includes such legendarily large kiesters like Kirby Puckett. Newman played at a weight of 183. He is easily 183 now just if you put his big fat ass on a scale. If he were a fan, his ass would need to buy its own ticket.

That said, he did his job getting the ump to call that balk at the absolute worst possible time - when there was a man on third and two outs.