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View Full Version : *Official*4-17-05 Postgame thread Sox vs M's


MRKARNO
04-17-2005, 05:58 PM
Rant 'n rave here

SouthSide4Life
04-17-2005, 05:58 PM
Willie why the hell would you attempt a steal with that count?!?!

DSpivack
04-17-2005, 05:59 PM
did willie harris just get caught stealing to end the game?

South Sider
04-17-2005, 05:59 PM
well....another no sweep

at least the twins have lost as well

SoxFan48
04-17-2005, 05:59 PM
I would have like to have seen Willie tag on the deep fly to Reed. Reed's arm is mediocre and this would have moved Willie to scoring position without the need for attempted steal.

SoxxoS
04-17-2005, 06:01 PM
He did. I will use hindsight...but that fly ball by Uribe was deep enough for Willie to tag. I don't know what he was thinking.

The only think Olivo does really well is throw out runners...but with Ozuna at the plate, you can't think home run. I don't have a problem with the steal...I have a problem with no tag on that fly ball.

Which once again proves the theory- Just because you have speed doesn't necessarily mean **** if you have no instincts.

Nard
04-17-2005, 06:01 PM
KILLER INSTINCT. :dtroll:

MRKARNO
04-17-2005, 06:01 PM
I think the end of the game exposed a big problem that we have with our bench: no right handed power hitters. Kenny needs to take a better look at AAA and seriosuly reexamine whether or not we need Pablo Ozuna.

Unregistered
04-17-2005, 06:02 PM
Interesting problem coming up next series... a 2 game short series, which means we either have to sweep or lose/tie the next series.

So one of our streaks will be broken: the sweepless or the winning series streak. Lets hope we can finally get the sweep.

SOXit2EM
04-17-2005, 06:02 PM
cant blame Willie, Olivo was in Great position to throw him out :(:

patbooyah
04-17-2005, 06:02 PM
something tells me that willie wasn't the one who was in charge of when to steal.

he got a bad break because the pitch pulled miguel up out of his stance. lets not blame him.

mdep524
04-17-2005, 06:02 PM
I would have like to have seen Willie tag on the deep fly to Reed. Reed's arm is mediocre and this would have moved Willie to scoring position without the need for attempted steal. This is why Willie sucks. He has no feel for the game. What in God's name stopped him from tagging up on that fly ball? <Sigh>

skobabe8
04-17-2005, 06:02 PM
willie just doesnt know how to steal a base. with his speed, thats a shame.

MRKARNO
04-17-2005, 06:02 PM
He did. I will use hindsight...but that fly ball by Uribe was deep enough for Willie to tag. I don't know what he was thinking.

The only think Olivo does really well is throw out runners...but with Ozuna at the plate, you can't think home run. I don't have a problem with the steal...I have a problem with no tag on that fly ball.

Which once again proves the theory- Just because you have speed doesn't necessarily mean **** if you have no instincts.

Yup this was what might have cost us the game. Willie had to tag in that situation and he failed to do so. I take back my earlier praise for him because his stupidity possibly cost us the chance to get back into this game.

Kogs35
04-17-2005, 06:03 PM
another series win, great job. win series forget about sweeps. on to play to hostest cakes and hopefully a win tomorow night

NWSox
04-17-2005, 06:03 PM
We knew Ozzie would run in situations like this. He's made no secret of it. You win some, you lose some.

shoota
04-17-2005, 06:03 PM
In the chat I said if I were the manager, I'd have the red light on Willie. One, he's not a very good base stealer, and two, Olivo and his cannon arm is behind the plate.

SoxFan48
04-17-2005, 06:04 PM
something tells me that willie wasn't the one who was in charge of when to steal.

he got a bad break because the pitch pulled miguel up out of his stance. lets not blame him.

No blame for getting caught on a steal--it was a worthwhile risk. But should have moved to second on Uribe's deep flyball. That was not good baseball.

owensmouth
04-17-2005, 06:04 PM
Here's an amazing thought: If you're gonna win with great starting pitching and a minimum offense, you'd better get great starting pitching.

Jjav829
04-17-2005, 06:05 PM
I think the end of the game exposed a big problem that we have with our bench: no right handed power hitters. Kenny needs to take a better look at AAA and seriosuly reexamine whether or not we need Pablo Ozuna.

I brought this up in the chat. It would be nice to have a legitimate righty on the bench for situations like that. I don't have a problem with Willie stealing.

Maybe we can sweep a two game series since these three game series sweeps don't work for us.

Unregistered
04-17-2005, 06:05 PM
Yup this was what might have cost us the game. Willie had to tag in that situation and he failed to do so. I take back my earlier praise for him because his stupidity possibly cost us the chance to get back into this game.What cost us the game is Dye letting a single to right turn into a triple, which forced Freddy to press, especially with Ichiro coming up.

DSpivack
04-17-2005, 06:05 PM
another series win, great job. win series forget about sweeps. on to play to hostest cakes and hopefully a win tomorow night

well the next series against the twinkies is just two games, so the only we can win that is to 'sweep'

MRKARNO
04-17-2005, 06:05 PM
Maybe we can sweep a two game series since these three game series sweeps don't work for us.

Well we have two coming up. Let's get on a 6 game win streak right here :)

eastchicagosoxfan
04-17-2005, 06:06 PM
You can't win 'em all. The team is 8-4. It's off to a good start. Imagine that, after all these years this team needs a right-handed bat. It's a long season.

shoota
04-17-2005, 06:06 PM
I would have like to have seen Willie tag on the deep fly to Reed. Reed's arm is mediocre and this would have moved Willie to scoring position without the need for attempted steal.

Farmer said, without giving his opinion, that the reason Willie wasn't tagging was because if Reed didn't catch the ball, Willie could have scored the tying run.

Fake Chet Lemon
04-17-2005, 06:06 PM
Unbelievable, another series we have a team on the ropes and we are unable to get the knockout punch. I'm glad our mods in their infinite wisdom closed down my thread on our inability to get a sweep. I obviously have no clue when it comes to spotting trends. But I'll sit back and read the same ole, same ole from everyone about how this was a GREAT LOSS, because we won the first two. And if we win 2 of every 3 we'll be the best team ever, so these losses are cool, blah-blah-blah-blah. Let's knock someone out, I'm so frustrated!!!:angry: Can you tell?

Mickster
04-17-2005, 06:06 PM
something tells me that willie wasn't the one who was in charge of when to steal.

he got a bad break because the pitch pulled miguel up out of his stance. lets not blame him.

Ozzie just stated on the post game show that Willie was on his own with the steal...... :(:

Unregistered
04-17-2005, 06:07 PM
You can't win 'em all. The team is 8-4. It's off to a good start. Imagine that, after all these years this team needs a right-handed bat. It's a long season.IIRC, the team was 8-4 last year, too.

owensmouth
04-17-2005, 06:07 PM
What cost us the game is Dye letting a single to right turn into a triple, which forced Freddy to press, especially with Ichiro coming up.What cost us the game was that Freddie didn't approach the job(s) done by either Garland or Buehrle.

soltrain21
04-17-2005, 06:07 PM
Timo is doing a good job, but when is Pods coming back? He is our spark.

DSpivack
04-17-2005, 06:08 PM
What cost us the game was that Freddie didn't approach the job(s) done by either Garland or Buehrle.

True, but starters aren't going to post a 2.30 or so ERA for the whole year. We should win games like this. That said, you can't win 'em all.

Unregistered
04-17-2005, 06:09 PM
What cost us the game was that Freddie didn't approach the job(s) done by either Garland or Buehrle.That's very "grand scheme of things" of you... I like to deal in specific instances and plays. Like the one where they called that bull**** stike 3 on Carl with runners on second and third. :angry:

owensmouth
04-17-2005, 06:09 PM
Timo is doing a good job, but when is Pods coming back? He is our spark.Yeah, but he's a liability in left field. Olivo would've had a double had Pods been playing left.

mdep524
04-17-2005, 06:09 PM
Some thoughts:

The BAD
-Dye is killing this team right now. I'm sure he will turn it around, but he really hasn't done anything since that HR in the 2nd game of the season. BA below .200 and that error really cost us today.

-After Dye's error, Freddy took a pretty timid approach to Ichiro, Reed and Beltre. Not sure I agree with all the curveballs, he looked like Contreras up there, afraid to challenge hitters. Once he fell behind Beltre 2-0 with curves that weren't even close, everyone in the world knew what was coming.

-I didn't care for the Sox approach in 8th inning. The M's made 3 miscues in the field, and all the Sox could think about was launching a HR out of the park when they could have strung some hits together and scored some runs the "smartball" way.


The GOOD
-Politte looks very good out there so far this season. The whole bullpen, really. Definitely keeping us in games, I like it!

-The RBIs from the middle of the line up are going to come, and when they do this offense will look very good.

-Hey, I'll take 2 out of 3 every series! I don't buy into that lack of killer instinct chatter, this team has a better feel for winning that any Sox team in recent years, and I am very confident with that. :smile:

TaylorStSox
04-17-2005, 06:11 PM
If there was any one thing which cost us the game, which there never is, it was Garcia pitching around Reed to get to Beltre. Garcia lacks the will to win. I've always thought that. Why in the hell do you not challenge a rookie in that position? Instead, you let the 2nd best hitter on their team beat you with the bases loaded. :?:

owensmouth
04-17-2005, 06:11 PM
That's very "grand scheme of things" of you... I like to deal in specific instances and plays. Like the one where they called that bull**** stike 3 on Carl with runners on second and third. :angry:Okay, how about the two gopher balls Freddie threw in the first inning?

doublem23
04-17-2005, 06:11 PM
I can't believe they sent Harris.

:angry:

patbooyah
04-17-2005, 06:12 PM
Ozzie just stated on the post game show that Willie was on his own with the steal...... :(:

well then... dios mio. :(:

cwsfannick
04-17-2005, 06:13 PM
Everybody is concentrating on Willie's caugth stealing, but this is not what lost the game for the pale hose. Freddie did not pitch well today. He fell in love with the curve ball and then could not get it over for a strike. This loss lies solely on Freddie today.

Unregistered
04-17-2005, 06:13 PM
Okay, how about the two gopher balls Freddie threw in the first inning? Followed by zeroes save for the "big" inning in the 5th.

patbooyah
04-17-2005, 06:14 PM
there were a lot of things wrong with this team today. lets not just blame any one person.

MRKARNO
04-17-2005, 06:14 PM
Seriously though, the way the White Sox have been playing, this type of game doesn't surprise me. They havent been patient enough and it killed them today against Meche. Many of the hitters simply cant do anything right now (Dye and Pierzynski come to mind) and one sub-par start and we cant overcome a 2 run deficit in 5 innings. We're at a point where if the starting pitching isnt great, it's very difficult for us to win and that's not a juncture you want to be at.

owensmouth
04-17-2005, 06:15 PM
Followed by zeroes save for the "big" inning in the 5th.Yeah, when he blew up

shoota
04-17-2005, 06:16 PM
-I didn't care for the Sox approach in 8th inning. The M's made 3 miscues in the field, and all the Sox could think about was launching a HR out of the park when they could have strung some hits together and scored some runs the "smartball" way.

4 miscues: The pitcher who couldn't field the comebacker; the foul ball that Beltre dropped leaning into the Sox dugout; the dropped ball at first on what should have been a double play; and Olivo's passed ball allowing a Sox runner to advance 90 feet to second. And we didn't score a run that inning. Bummer.

Dye's error was bad and so was the Third Base umps call on Everett's 2-strike check swing with 1 out and runners on second and third. We could have used a run there.

edit: and after reading someone else's post, Garcia giving up that walk to Reed, forcing him to face Beltre who then drove in two runs, hurt too.

Navaro's Talent
04-17-2005, 06:17 PM
With Meche pitching, I thought the Sox had a good chance at winning this, but oh well. They can't win them all, right? I'm still thinking of what Everett could have done in the fifth if it wasn't for that terrible call by the third base umpire. He was seeing a lot of pitches, and I wouldn't have been surprised if he got a hit.

I don't know if I agree with having Willie steal. If there is anything that Olivo is good at, it's throwing guys out. Willie may be fast, but he's not very good at stealing. I understand trying to make up for him not tagging, but if Ozuna were to get on, the very hot Iguchi would have been up.

Unregistered
04-17-2005, 06:18 PM
Yeah, when he blew up The game was tied and the bases were empty with 2 outs when Garcia gave up a single to right that Dye turned into a triple.

And so on and so on...

Cowch44
04-17-2005, 06:19 PM
All I can think is: Too little, too late.:angry:

owensmouth
04-17-2005, 06:20 PM
So tomorrow the Twins and then on to Detroit and Oakland. This could be a very ugly week.

Fake Chet Lemon
04-17-2005, 06:22 PM
That performance from Garland, our #5 is still the story of this series. With starting pitching this good one through five, even if the offense struggles I think it will be virtually impossible for this team to suffer that 6 or 7 game losing that is usually inevitable in a season for everyone. Pretty unlikely we can blow through this entire rotation +1 and everyone lose. In a long season, that is a Hell of an asset.

owensmouth
04-17-2005, 06:22 PM
The game was tied and the bases were empty with 2 outs when Garcia gave up a single to right that Dye turned into a triple.

And so on and so on...And it took him how many tries to get that third out? Pathetic.

Jjav829
04-17-2005, 06:23 PM
The game was tied and the bases were empty with 2 outs when Garcia gave up a single to right that Dye turned into a triple.

And so on and so on...

Isn't this the type of thing that we've railed on Garland for in previous years? Blowing up after a defensive miscue?

Either way, this team simply can't afford errors right now. The offense is pathetic and anything that gives the other team another run just decreases our chances of winning too much.

Jermaine Dye is the guy that has to step up. He looks miserable out there. .190 from your #5 hitter is simply not acceptable.

Cowch44
04-17-2005, 06:23 PM
So tomorrow the Twins and then on to Detroit and Oakland. This could be a very ugly week.
I don't think those teams have very good pitching. We probably won't have to worry about Santana, Detroit hardly has an ace let alone a rotation, and Oakland got rid of most of their guys.

NWSox
04-17-2005, 06:23 PM
Ozzie just stated on the post game show that Willie was on his own with the steal...... :(:

I can't imagine he was literally "on his own." He probably meant he had the green light to go when he wanted. If he didn't have a green light, Ozzie needs to have a little chat with Willie.

Unregistered
04-17-2005, 06:23 PM
So tomorrow the Twins and then on to Detroit and Oakland. This could be a very ugly week.Other than the Twins, who we should be able to at least split with, Detroit is playing like crap, followed by terrible Kansas City, and Oakland is a sub .500 team. If we tank this week, we weren't much to begin with...

SOXintheBURGH
04-17-2005, 06:24 PM
Bad loss... but hey, that's gonna happen.

Name me the team in first place?

Navaro's Talent
04-17-2005, 06:24 PM
Wow, isn't this the first time Freddy has lost a day game in over a year?

HomeFish
04-17-2005, 06:25 PM
Folks,

Like most of you, I don't think that Willie Harris is the best player in the game. However, I don't think he deserves the blame for today's loss. He was on first base with two outs, and Ozuna was at the plate. Now, I have been a big Ozuna backer, but even I admit that such a situation is really the same as the game being over. If Willie stole second successfully, maybe we would have gotten a freak single and won. If he hadn't, we'd still be relying on TWO freak singles to bail us out.

Willie tried to change the character of the inning, but the game wasn't lost in the 9th. It was lost in the 5th. Direct your anger to that inning.

owensmouth
04-17-2005, 06:26 PM
Isn't this the type of thing that we've railed on Garland for in previous years? Blowing up after a defensive miscue?

Nah, Garland's thing is to give up a walk and then a home run, and then do it again

owensmouth
04-17-2005, 06:28 PM
Ozzie is doing his Manuel impression: "I don't want a sweep, I want to win series."

Well, his team lost, so I guess he got what he wanted.

Lip Man 1
04-17-2005, 06:28 PM
According to the newspapers Pods is supposed to be back tomorrow 'unless the weather is cool and damp.' When this first happened I posted concern about the injury because it's the type that can be nagging like a hamstring and go on for a long time.

Some posters were somewhat criticle of that observation. Pods has now missed the last five games.

Lip

Unregistered
04-17-2005, 06:29 PM
And it took him how many tries to get that third out? Pathetic.I don't have much Major League experience, but I'm guessing it's far easier to get out number 3 with a runner on first than it is with a guy on third. Not to mention against the best hitter in baseball.
You saw how much Freddy was inching around the strike zone because he was afraid of Ichiro getting a hit off of him. With a runner on first, I'm guessing he's firing away and taking his chances.

soxtalker
04-17-2005, 06:30 PM
Seriously though, the way the White Sox have been playing, this type of game doesn't surprise me. They havent been patient enough and it killed them today against Meche. Many of the hitters simply cant do anything right now (Dye and Pierzynski come to mind) and one sub-par start and we cant overcome a 2 run deficit in 5 innings. We're at a point where if the starting pitching isnt great, it's very difficult for us to win and that's not a juncture you want to be at.

I think that this is correct. We've had some great pitching from our starters that has resulted in 1- and 2-run wins. As we were getting all those wins, I kept looking at the Marlins. Their pitching has been much better than ours, yet they've struggled more than we have. I think that the problem is that there just isn't much room for error the way we play now. Yes, our OBP should improve when Frank gets back. But I hope that KW and Ozzie notice some of the problems now (such as low walks) and do some tweaking.

TaylorStSox
04-17-2005, 06:31 PM
According to the newspapers Pods is supposed to be back tomorrow 'unless the weather is cool and damp.' When this first happened I posted concern about the injury because it's the type that can be nagging like a hamstring and go on for a long time.

Some posters were somewhat criticle of that observation. Pods has now missed the last five games.

Lip

Omg you were right and they were wrong. *high 5*


Garcia needs to show a little bit more courage and moxy. It really sucks that he didn't challenge Reed. Why let Beltre beat you?

Fake Chet Lemon
04-17-2005, 06:32 PM
.

Jermaine Dye is the guy that has to step up. He looks miserable out there. .190 from your #5 hitter is simply not acceptable.

It may be time to move Rowand up in the order. I'd love to see Rowand #3 and Everett #5.

TaylorStSox
04-17-2005, 06:33 PM
It may be time to move Rowand up in the order. I'd love to see Rowand #3 and Everett #5.

Rowand doesn't have the patience to be in the 3 hole.

shoota
04-17-2005, 06:34 PM
I don't have much Major League experience, but I'm guessing it's far easier to get out number 3 with a runner on first than it is with a guy on third. Not to mention against the best hitter in baseball.
You saw how much Freddy was inching around the strike zone because he was afraid of Ichiro getting a hit off of him. With a runner on first, I'm guessing he's firing away and taking his chances.

That's why it's understandable that Freddy walked Suzuki with a man in scoring position. But then he walked rookie Jeremy Reed to allow Beltre the opportunity to bat with the bases loaded. Beltre then drove in Seattle's fourth and fifth run. Sox lost 5-4.

IMO, the walk to Reed in that situation is much less excusable than the two solo homers Freddy gave up in the first inning.

Unregistered
04-17-2005, 06:35 PM
It may be time to move Rowand up in the order. I'd love to see Rowand #3 and Everett #5.Not sure if the most productive guy in the lineup should bat fifth.
:everett:
"I'm crazy, but not about this idea."

Unregistered
04-17-2005, 06:37 PM
That's why it's understandable that Freddy walked Suzuki with a man in scoring position. But then he walked rookie Jeremy Reed to allow Beltre the opportunity to bat with the bases loaded. Beltre then drove in Seattle's fourth and fifth run. Sox lost 5-4.

IMO, the walk to Reed in that situation is much less excusable than the two solo homers Freddy gave up in the first inning. Freddy started out by pitching and trying to get Ichiro to swing at the first 2 pitches. Then they just gave up and put him on. Valdez going to 3rd on the error changed the entire dynamic of the inning and made Freddy press and nibble too much. He eventually got frustrated and threw a "get me over" fastball to Beltre on a 2-0 count. We know how that ended up...

ChiSox7
04-17-2005, 06:38 PM
According to the newspapers Pods is supposed to be back tomorrow 'unless the weather is cool and damp.' When this first happened I posted concern about the injury because it's the type that can be nagging like a hamstring and go on for a long time.

Some posters were somewhat criticle of that observation. Pods has now missed the last five games.

Lip

They aren't holding him out because it is lingering. They are holding him out because they are being overly cautious

ChiSox7
04-17-2005, 06:39 PM
It may be time to move Rowand up in the order. I'd love to see Rowand #3 and Everett #5.

What has Rowand done? He doesn't walk and his averages have been low. The problem is that everybody is slumping except for really Everett and Iguchi, and even he is coming off of a small slump.

MRKARNO
04-17-2005, 06:46 PM
I didnt see the replay, but has anyone questioned whether or not Harris was actually out?

Lip Man 1
04-17-2005, 06:49 PM
Chisox 7 says: "They are holding him out because they are being overly cautious."

And why are they being overly cautious?

Because it's the type of injury that can go on for months if you're not careful. Unlike some who immediately dismissed this as 'nothing,' it is something. Anytime a guy who stole 70 bases, hurts his leg or hamstring or groin it's 'something.'

Lip

Fake Chet Lemon
04-17-2005, 06:50 PM
What has Rowand done? He doesn't walk and his averages have been low. The problem is that everybody is slumping except for really Everett and Iguchi, and even he is coming off of a small slump.

Rowand seems to be hitting ball hard, even on his outs. But ultimately I guess you're right, Ozzie doesn't have many great options right now. There are so many new pieces, it probably all needs more time to jell.

Fake Chet Lemon
04-17-2005, 06:54 PM
Not sure if the most productive guy in the lineup should bat fifth.
:everett:
"I'm crazy, but not about this idea."

I'm just afraid teams are going to start pitching around Paulie, I think Carl can protect him. If I was another manager, I'd tell my starter to do anything but give Konerko a chance to beat us. That would be my White Sox game plan.

ChiSox7
04-17-2005, 06:59 PM
I'm just afraid teams are going to start pitching around Paulie, I think Carl can protect him. If I was another manager, I'd tell my starter to do anything but give Konerko a chance to beat us. That would be my White Sox game plan.

Why would they pitch around Paulie? He's hitting only hitting .233. 4 of his 6 homers are of the solo variety. He needs to pick it up just like the rest of them, especially as a cleanup hitter.

Paul is hitting .167 with a .211 OBP with runners on base. That simply can't happen from your cleanup hitter.

SoxxoS
04-17-2005, 07:07 PM
Why would they pitch around Paulie? He's hitting only hitting .233. 4 of his 6 homers are of the solo variety. He needs to pick it up just like the rest of them, especially as a cleanup hitter.

Paul is hitting .167 with a .211 OBP with runners on base. That simply can't happen from your cleanup hitter.

I would like to take this point in the thread to let everyone ponder...HOW THE HELL WE ARE IN FIRST PLACE???

Nobody is hitting, except Carl. We had closer problems. Cotts has sucked. Vizcaino's ERA is over 12. Did I mention Joe Crede is still a starter on this team.

Yet we are tied for the best record in the majors, in first place. With all the crap above, I like how this season is going so far...we should be 4-8. But we aren't, and I am happy.

We got to start hitting, and a good time would be...TOMORROW against the Twinkies.:bandance:

ChiSox7
04-17-2005, 07:11 PM
I would like to take this point in the thread to let everyone ponder...HOW THE HELL WE ARE IN FIRST PLACE???

Nobody is hitting, except Carl. We had closer problems. Cotts has sucked. Vizcaino's ERA is over 12. Did I mention Joe Crede is still a starter on this team.

Yet we are tied for the best record in the majors, in first place. With all the crap above, I like how this season is going so far...we should be 4-8. But we aren't, and I am happy.

We got to start hitting, and a good time would be...TOMORROW against the Twinkies.:bandance:

Exactly! We are in an awesome situation with how bad our hitting as been. WE've gotta start hitting like you said though, cause as good as our pitchers are, they won't have a quality start every game. You have to be able to win some games when your starter gives up 4 or 5 over 6 or 7 innings.

Fake Chet Lemon
04-17-2005, 07:24 PM
Why would they pitch around Paulie? He's hitting only hitting .233. 4 of his 6 homers are of the solo variety. He needs to pick it up just like the rest of them, especially as a cleanup hitter.

Paul is hitting .167 with a .211 OBP with runners on base. That simply can't happen from your cleanup hitter.

You say that like solo HRs are a bad thing, those two on Saturday were pretty important. With that said, I didn't realize was he doing that poorly with runners on base. Thanks for the info. I guess with the way we are hitting, there isn't a lineup we could float out here that we couldn't also blast holes into. Yet we sit in first, bring on the Twins!

itsnotrequired
04-17-2005, 07:26 PM
updated sig time...

ElDuque26
04-17-2005, 07:26 PM
I would like to take this point in the thread to let everyone ponder...HOW THE HELL WE ARE IN FIRST PLACE???

Nobody is hitting, except Carl. We had closer problems. Cotts has sucked. Vizcaino's ERA is over 12. Did I mention Joe Crede is still a starter on this team.

Yet we are tied for the best record in the majors, in first place. With all the crap above, I like how this season is going so far...we should be 4-8. But we aren't, and I am happy.

We got to start hitting, and a good time would be...TOMORROW against the Twinkies.:bandance:

The fact that we have had really only two bad outings from a starter (buerhle vs. Minnesota and El Duque vs. Cleveland) has something to do with it. Its hard to lose many games when you are consistently giving up less then 4 runs. It should also be noted that our hits really seem to come in bunches and that helps put up runs. As for the choice of sending willie, it would have seemed smarter with uribe up and runners on the corner,its not a guarantee that olivo throws down, and if hes safe its a runner on third and not first for ozuna...much better situation

DickAllen72
04-17-2005, 07:28 PM
I didnt see the replay, but has anyone questioned whether or not Harris was actually out?

I thought he was safe, but I couldn't tell for sure because they never showed a slow-motion replay. It was very close, either way.

soxfan123
04-17-2005, 07:31 PM
If there was any one thing which cost us the game, which there never is, it was Garcia pitching around Reed to get to Beltre. Garcia lacks the will to win. I've always thought that. Why in the hell do you not challenge a rookie in that position? Instead, you let the 2nd best hitter on their team beat you with the bases loaded. :?:

I agree. Had Garcia retired Reed and challenged him, we obviosuly would have had a much better chance. Although, the one thing that got to me was Dye's miscue. That killed us, the morale and the way Garcia tried to get people out. I am not worried about him though, he has proven that he can play.

elrod
04-17-2005, 07:41 PM
Farmer was right. Willie didn't tag up because there was a chance Reed could have missed that ball and Willie would have been in position to score on the play. Not much we could have done, really.

FarWestChicago
04-17-2005, 07:43 PM
Some posters were somewhat criticle of that observation. Pods has now missed the last five games.

LipBig ****ing deal, Lip. You always predict doom and gloom. Since bad things happen, you'll sometimes be right. I should just change your user title to "Broken Clock".

FarWestChicago
04-17-2005, 07:44 PM
Ozzie is doing his Manuel impression: "I don't want a sweep, I want to win series."

Well, his team lost, so I guess he got what he wanted.Yeah, I'm sure that's what Ozzie is thinking. What a mind numbingly stupid post. :rolleyes:

Brian26
04-17-2005, 07:46 PM
I would have like to have seen Willie tag on the deep fly to Reed. Reed's arm is mediocre and this would have moved Willie to scoring position without the need for attempted steal.

But if Reed doesn't catch that ball, Willie's got to be able to score. He's the tying run. I think he did the right thing in that situation.

MRKARNO
04-17-2005, 07:47 PM
I would like to take this point in the thread to let everyone ponder...HOW THE HELL WE ARE IN FIRST PLACE???

Nobody is hitting, except Carl. We had closer problems. Cotts has sucked. Vizcaino's ERA is over 12. Did I mention Joe Crede is still a starter on this team.

Yet we are tied for the best record in the majors, in first place. With all the crap above, I like how this season is going so far...we should be 4-8. But we aren't, and I am happy.

We got to start hitting, and a good time would be...TOMORROW against the Twinkies.:bandance:

Couldnt have said it better myself

Brian26
04-17-2005, 07:51 PM
So tomorrow the Twins and then on to Detroit and Oakland. This could be a very ugly week.

Where did this come from? Why the pessimism? We're 8-4, in first place, tied for the best record in baseball, and we have the best starting rotation in baseball right now. None of those three teams you mentioned scare me at all. Oakland isn't the same team at all.

NSSoxFan
04-17-2005, 07:57 PM
Where did this come from? Why the pessimism? We're 8-4, in first place, tied for the best record in baseball, and we have the best starting rotation in baseball right now. None of those three teams you mentioned scare me at all. Oakland isn't the same team at all.

Just take a look at all of owensmouth's posts, that should answer your question.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm happy. I could be happier, but I'm not going to complain by any means. I'm just sitting back and relaxing waiting to see how much better it will get once our hitting becomes in sync with our pitching. 8-4 and hitting like crap, I'll take that any day.

Cellview22
04-17-2005, 08:00 PM
The only thing I'm worried about is Contreras tomorrow night. If he can come through and the Sox pull out a win, that'll be huge. We need to make a statement early on, and a sweep would be just the statement! :bandance:

MRKARNO
04-17-2005, 08:06 PM
Where did this come from? Why the pessimism? We're 8-4, in first place, tied for the best record in baseball, and we have the best starting rotation in baseball right now. None of those three teams you mentioned scare me at all. Oakland isn't the same team at all.

Also, you could look at it another way. After the Twins two gamer, the White Sox play 11 of their next 14 against Detroit and Kansas City.

infohawk
04-17-2005, 08:19 PM
What cost us the game is Dye letting a single to right turn into a triple, which forced Freddy to press, especially with Ichiro coming up.

Bad play by Jermaine, but I don't think it cost us the game any more than Freddie giving up two first inning solo shots. The good news is we win another series, are 8-4 without our offense producing as it will when guys begin reaching their career averages and, even when we lose, we are right in the games because of our pitching. The blown game against Cleveland doesn't count because of the circumstances and manner in which the bullpen was used. GO SOX!

Lip Man 1
04-17-2005, 08:22 PM
Even in the four losses the Sox were in just about every game and had a decent chance to win them all. Their worst loss was the blow out to Cleveland 11-5 in 11 and in that one they had a 5-0 lead.

At least the Sox aren't 'giving' away games like in the past. Sometimes the breaks will go your way sometimes they won't. What it comes down to is pitching, if it stays solid they have a chance hitting or no hitting.

On the subject of hitting, I realize they have faced some tough pitchers early however I simply can't put the Mariners pitchers in the same class. In my opinion this is an issue starting right now.

When Pods gets back that gives them another weapon, some ability to create scoring chances, getting Frank back will really help... however even those two won't be able to do it themselves. Dye, Rowand, Uribe, A.J. have got to start at least hitting their weight even the 64 and 67 Sox did that.

Lip

chisoxmike
04-17-2005, 08:27 PM
They had a chance to do some damage with runners on second and third early in the game too, but Everett was called out on a horse**** strikeout, and Konerko got out. The game didn't have to go to the bottom of the ninth.

popilius
04-17-2005, 08:48 PM
Yup this was what might have cost us the game. Willie had to tag in that situation and he failed to do so. I take back my earlier praise for him because his stupidity possibly cost us the chance to get back into this game.

Most coaches will tell you, as any of us who have played organized baseball on all levels, that Willie should not have been tagging up if the ball might have hit the wall.

When the ball was hit, both 1. Willie Harris, and 2. Tim Raines (first base coach) must judge whether the CF will definitley catch the ball. If so, then you tag. If the ball has a chance of hitting the wall, then you don't tag, because the runner will most likely score and tie the game. Obviously Harris and/or Raines thought the ball might not be caught.

:gulp:

CubKilla
04-17-2005, 08:53 PM
But I'll sit back and read the same ole, same ole from everyone about how this was a GREAT LOSS, because we won the first two.

Only at WSI will you read such threads. If we win every series in '05, we'll end up with 108 wins :rolleyes: .

CWSGuy406
04-17-2005, 08:55 PM
According to the newspapers Pods is supposed to be back tomorrow 'unless the weather is cool and damp.' When this first happened I posted concern about the injury because it's the type that can be nagging like a hamstring and go on for a long time.

Some posters were somewhat criticle of that observation. Pods has now missed the last five games.

Lip

Thank goodness for that, too. Timo was 2-9 this series with a walk, or something like that. A .300 OBP from your leadoff hitter isn't going to get the job done; we need Pods bad. Hopefully he can work the count, draw some walks, and steal some bags this week.

Mohoney
04-17-2005, 09:11 PM
there were a lot of things wrong with this team today. lets not just blame any one person.

Yup. Dye's error in the 5th, AJ not blocking that ball in the 5th allowing the runner to advance when the next batter hit a ground ball that would have been a double play, and Freddy's command leaving him in the 5th when he couldn't throw the curve for strikes all played a part in that big inning.

That being said, we were still in this game in the 9th, we only had to use one guy in the bullpen, and Carl got completely hosed on that check swing. Plus, Minnesota just handed that game to Cleveland today.

So far, we have really responded well after a loss, and I feel good about our chances to keep that trend going tomorrow.

duke of dorwood
04-17-2005, 10:08 PM
If harris went on his own, with the top of the order up, that says a lot about why he isnt and wont ever be a major league player.

Fake Chet Lemon
04-17-2005, 10:24 PM
:tomatoaward So tomorrow the Twins and then on to Detroit and Oakland. This could be a very ugly week.

Should this have been teal, the Royals scare ya that much on this upcoming trip? The Tigers blow.

owensmouth
04-18-2005, 04:11 AM
The Tigers blow.We've said the same thing for the past two years about the Tigers. We have played at or below their level. It's time for the Sox to clearly dominate them. We'll see what happens. Also, last year we had a winning record against the Twins in their dome. They beat the ____ out of us at US Cellular Field. Starting Monday, we'll see if anything has changed.

crector
04-18-2005, 04:30 AM
Even in the four losses the Sox were in just about every game and had a decent chance to win them all. Their worst loss was the blow out to Cleveland 11-5 in 11 and in that one they had a 5-0 lead.

At least the Sox aren't 'giving' away games like in the past. Sometimes the breaks will go your way sometimes they won't. What it comes down to is pitching, if it stays solid they have a chance hitting or no hitting.

On the subject of hitting, I realize they have faced some tough pitchers early however I simply can't put the Mariners pitchers in the same class. In my opinion this is an issue starting right now.

When Pods gets back that gives them another weapon, some ability to create scoring chances, getting Frank back will really help... however even those two won't be able to do it themselves. Dye, Rowand, Uribe, A.J. have got to start at least hitting their weight even the 64 and 67 Sox did that.

Lip


Mr. Liptak, have you not heard of the "Hitless Wonders"? Don't you think that its possible that we might be watching history repeat itself right down to winning the World Series this year?

DrCrawdad
04-18-2005, 08:13 AM
Even in the four losses the Sox were in just about every game and had a decent chance to win them all. Their worst loss was the blow out to Cleveland 11-5 in 11 and in that one they had a 5-0 lead.

At least the Sox aren't 'giving' away games like in the past. Sometimes the breaks will go your way sometimes they won't. What it comes down to is pitching, if it stays solid they have a chance hitting or no hitting.

On the subject of hitting, I realize they have faced some tough pitchers early however I simply can't put the Mariners pitchers in the same class. In my opinion this is an issue starting right now.

When Pods gets back that gives them another weapon, some ability to create scoring chances, getting Frank back will really help... however even those two won't be able to do it themselves. Dye, Rowand, Uribe, A.J. have got to start at least hitting their weight even the 64 and 67 Sox did that.

Lip

I agree!

I don't know if it's been mentioned here already but Dye better get his (butt) in gear. The Mariners pitched around Konerko to get to Dye in Sundays game. IIRC the Mariners (unofficially) intentionally walked Konerko that put two runners on and two outs. Dye promptly whiffed. Keep that up Dye and they'll continually pitch around Konerko until you prove that you can hurt opposing teams with your bat.

Jermaine Dye has left me unimpressed so far with his offense and defense. Dye's hitting .190, with 2 HR and 2 RBI.

I hope that Dye will impress me against MN over the next two games...

LVSoxFan
04-18-2005, 10:27 AM
Whoever said this should be an ugly week--actually it should be a week where we can put our foot down on our constant nemesis rivals.

Twins: no mystery here why beating them will be a good thing.

Tigers: even when they suck we still manage to lose to them inexplicably, like last year. Hopefully we can start dominating them as we should.

Oakland: Oakland has been a guaranteed loss for years--particularly at their park. Any streak we'd get going would be promptly undone by a trip to Oakland, where we'd look anemic. Once and for all we can end this--why not sooner rather than later?

As for yesterday's game, which I was at (woof!), the thing that's concerning me right now is lack of offense. We always muster enough to stay close, but just can't seem to put them away--even when Everett propels us back into the game like he did yesterday.

As for Willie stealing I have not problem with that--I'd rather lose games taking chances than sitting there playing it safe, like, say all of last year? However, if you're going to steal, why oh why did they decide to challenge Olivo of all people? That's absolutely the last guy I'm going to try and steal on.

Once again, this team is built on pitching and defense and when it falters (like in the last Cleveland game), we go down. Freddy was shaky and tentative; Dye's error cost us big time.

That said, the call on Everett's check swing was crap. He must have taken a full minute walking back to the dugout because he was so pissed.

Let's not panic though, people: it's only been 12 games. It's not even June yet. The Yankees aren't even over .500; plenty of ball to be played.

balke
04-18-2005, 10:47 AM
I agree!

I don't know if it's been mentioned here already but Dye better get his (butt) in gear. The Mariners pitched around Konerko to get to Dye in Sundays game. IIRC the Mariners (unofficially) intentionally walked Konerko that put two runners on and two outs. Dye promptly whiffed. Keep that up Dye and they'll continually pitch around Konerko until you prove that you can hurt opposing teams with your bat.

Jermaine Dye has left me unimpressed so far with his offense and defense. Dye's hitting .190, with 2 HR and 2 RBI.

I hope that Dye will impress me against MN over the next two games...

He's been very "Borchard-esque" so far. I think he can still turn things around though. He should be batting lower in the order, Rowand and Uribe are better hitters until further notice.

Ol' No. 2
04-18-2005, 11:56 AM
I'm not even going bother reading this whole thread because I'm pretty sure I can predict what it says. Probably 10 lucid posts and 90 of people wailing on their favorite whipping boys. In fact, there's plenty of blame to go around. Garcia was up in the zone all day, they left 5 on base in scoring position (I'm looking at you, Pauly, AJ and Jermaine), Dye's muff, Willie not tagging up on the fly ball (*** was Raines doing?). Altogether, not a pretty game. They deserved to lose that one.

LVSoxFan
04-18-2005, 12:09 PM
Yeah you pretty much summed it up.

The only thing that wasn't their fault was the bad strike call on Everett's check-swing from the 3B coach. That hurt.

Ol' No. 2
04-18-2005, 01:26 PM
Yeah you pretty much summed it up.

The only thing that wasn't their fault was the bad strike call on Everett's check-swing from the 3B coach. That hurt.I think they caught the 3B ump napping. But "I don't know" isn't an option, so he just rung him up.