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View Full Version : Top 5/Bottom 5 managers


OG4LIFE
04-16-2005, 03:00 PM
during last night's mariners game, i got to thinking about how significant a manager's role is and who the best and worst in the business were. post here, rank your own, shoot mine to hell, have fun-

1. ron gardenhire
wins with less, year in and year out

2. bobby cox
tough to argue with 13 division titles

3. tony larussa

4. mike Scioscia

5. lou pinnella

honorable mentions to the top 5-
francona and torre are excluded, they haven't proven themselves without a 130 mil + team
jim tracy
jack mckeon

bottom 5:

26. Clint Hurdle, Colorado

27. John Gibbons, Tor


man, i really cant think of guys who are just horrible. i didnt include ozzie or john baker on either top 5 or bottom 5 for the following reasons:

ozzie- he does a lot of gameday stuff that makes you think he is terrible, but given how different the team's attitude is under his control, and how well this current team is doing (exactly the type of team he wanted), its tough for me to say he doesnt know what he's doing.

baker- sure, he runs his starting pitchers into the ground, he whines about everything, but you have to agree that when he came, he said he was going to strip the 'loser' label off of the cubbies. i'd say that he has definitely turned them around, however he managed to also tear the 'lovable' tag from them as well.

Clembasbal
04-17-2005, 09:27 AM
Ron Gardenhire, good...but not number 1. I wouldn't have him in my top 5, I would add Buck Showalter.

I would also not have Joe Torre in there, he won with who he had...not with his smarts.

In the Bottom 5...I would add Dusty Baker. He ruins arms and he ruins team chemistry. He puts players againsst players and he takes the sid eof his favorite.

Stroker Ace
04-17-2005, 11:38 AM
Good point with Francona and Torre. I would have to put Cox first and Baker last.

NonetheLoaiza
04-17-2005, 12:28 PM
Cox has to be number one. 13 straight division titles? That's ridiculous, a testament to his managing skills. I would put Baker somewhere in the second half because like someone said earlier, he pits player against player and ruins arms. On the other hand, the Cubs have been winning, something they haven't done consistently in a long while. Sooner or later, though, Baker's style will get him fired. Ozzie, I hate to say it has to be in the bottom 5 or 10, just because he has so much to learn about managing. Remember, he has never been a manager, at the minor league level or anything. The thing Ozzie is fantastic at is getting his players to play for him, and that can't be ignored.

AZChiSoxFan
04-19-2005, 03:29 PM
Ron Gardenhire, good...but not number 1. I wouldn't have him in my top 5, I would add Buck Showalter.



Showalter? Wow. He couldn't even win the divison with RJ and Schilling in 2000. Bob Brenly came in the next year, with basically the same team, and they won it all. Showalter MAY be a decent manager with a very young team, but the guy doesn't know how to manage veterans. He "manages" like he's a high school or college coach, with tons of meaningless rules, such as: you are never allowed to have your hat on backwards at any time you are on the field, the bottom of your pants must be between 2 and 4 inches above your shoes (that's true, I didn't make that up). He had a nice run in Texas last year, but wait and see, his act will quickly grow tired with the players there.

SoxFan76
04-19-2005, 04:05 PM
Good point with Francona and Torre. I would have to put Cox first and Baker last.

You have to set aside biases. As OG4LIFE stated, Baker did remove the "loser" tag from the Cubs organization. Then again, he also has $100 million to work with. So what am I trying to say? I have no idea. :D:

Fenway
04-19-2005, 04:09 PM
Casey Stengel was an awful manager with the Boston Braves, Brooklyn Dodgers and New York Mets

With the Yankees he could do no wrong



However having a big payroll doesn't mean you win

Grady Little comes to mind ( and he hasn't be hired by anyone as a manager since )

Epark84
04-19-2005, 04:25 PM
ozzie would be toward the bottom of my list, just by judging from his actions in games the last year plus. Plus he always sticks his foot in his mouth.

Banix12
04-19-2005, 06:08 PM
I don't disagree with your top five, I would just change the order. It think I would also drop Pinella

1. Bobby Cox
2. Tony Larussa
3. Mike Scioscia
4. Joe Torre (yeah he did it with a rediculously good lineup but he has handled the pressure of new york for this long and won a lot of rings)
5. Ron Gardenhire

Cox for his streak, Larussa because he consistantly wins, Scioscia has done well since he's been a manager. They also all have world series rings.

Gardenhire gets ranked above Pinella, even with his ring, because Pinella willingly went to Tampa Bay, now that's a lapse in judgement no manager should willingly make. That's why I drop Pinella

Right on the bubble I would have Felipe Alou, Pinella, and Showalter

worst managers in no particular order, Dusty (great motivator, horrible manager), Bob Melvin, Phil Garner, Tony Pena (got a lot of credit for 03', gets just as much credit for falling apart last season), Mike Hargrove (still resting on his laurels from Cleveland, didn't have much of a chance in Baltimore but his time might be done)

Guys I don't blame for futility are Ned Yost, Clint Hurdle, Lloyd McClendon, in fact I think if any of these guys got decent or league average teams behind them they could succeed.

doublem23
04-19-2005, 07:27 PM
You have to set aside biases. As OG4LIFE stated, Baker did remove the "loser" tag from the Cubs organization.

He did (http://www.ourcurseisworse.com/)?

OG4LIFE
04-19-2005, 08:28 PM
However having a big payroll doesn't mean you win

Grady Little comes to mind ( and he hasn't be hired by anyone as a manager since )

grady little came within a few innings of a world series trip, and lost to the only team with a higher payroll than his own. hardly an upset, and it took a pretty big pedro choke for that to happen. i know francona is pretty much the second coming to you people at this point, but lets give little a break.

Daver
04-19-2005, 08:35 PM
I would put Tony LaRussa in the bottom five, not the upper five.

Banix12
04-19-2005, 10:37 PM
As I think about this issue, I think there really aren't many horrible managers in baseball. Most of the awful ones get found out pretty quickly and are quickly fired. I think the managerial position where there are a lot of bad guys is General Manager, and the GM's often have a more drastic effect on the team.

RKMeibalane
04-20-2005, 10:22 AM
Showalter? Wow. He couldn't even win the divison with RJ and Schilling in 2000. Bob Brenly came in the next year, with basically the same team, and they won it all. Showalter MAY be a decent manager with a very young team, but the guy doesn't know how to manage veterans. He "manages" like he's a high school or college coach, with tons of meaningless rules, such as: you are never allowed to have your hat on backwards at any time you are on the field, the bottom of your pants must be between 2 and 4 inches above your shoes (that's true, I didn't make that up). He had a nice run in Texas last year, but wait and see, his act will quickly grow tired with the players there.

I believe you. Showalter has been criticized throughout his career as being a control-freak. Players eventually get sick of him because he has them wound up too tight, so much so that they don't enjoy the games anymore.