PDA

View Full Version : *official* White Sox Winner 4/15 Thread


mealfred13
04-15-2005, 10:46 PM
Yes! Got a little scary there at the end.... Awesome game for Garland, Uribe, Hermanson.

Arms Vizcaino looked decent until the 9th, but we can't all be perfect.

chisox56
04-15-2005, 10:47 PM
I was a little worried there but hermanson got the job done.

I want Mags back
04-15-2005, 10:47 PM
YES. Shingo tried so hard to blow that lead, but hermanson nailed it down

YES WERE 7-3

MRKARNO
04-15-2005, 10:48 PM
:ozzie

"Even I couldn't find a way to screw that one up"

Stroker Ace
04-15-2005, 10:48 PM
SOX WIN! YESSSSSS!!!!!

I want Mags back
04-15-2005, 10:48 PM
Yes!

How the hell did u type this thread in so fast

Damn, i gotta go change mine or something

RKMeibalane
04-15-2005, 10:48 PM
Shingo should be removed from the closer's role until he gets his control back. We don't need another Mitch Williams in baseball.

SoxFan48
04-15-2005, 10:48 PM
And yes...the bullpen is now officially suspect--Marte is wild and Shingo...well, his 15 minutes are up.

SoxWillWin
04-15-2005, 10:48 PM
Another "shut your mouth" for Garland critics.....YES!!!!

mealfred13
04-15-2005, 10:48 PM
How the hell did u type this thread in so fast

Damn, i gotta go change mine or something

Hahah...:gulp:

Cowch44
04-15-2005, 10:49 PM
Awsome game for Garland. It is GREAT to have a quality 5th starter. I think Buehrle got 19 before he lost his Perfect Game to Cleveland last year, so is Garland just as good as Buehrle?:rolleyes:
I am really happy with the bottom of our lineup from today's game too.

Gosox1917
04-15-2005, 10:49 PM
:winner Whew, a close one. Great outing by Garland and he's our fifth starter! I like what I see so far. Let's hope the bullpen can hold the opponents a little bit better though.

mealfred13
04-15-2005, 10:50 PM
Gotta say, the only guy who has the balls to close out there is Hermanson. I love his determination and fearlessness. What more could you want in a closer.

JGarlandrules20
04-15-2005, 10:50 PM
Stud outing from our fifth starter.
:bandance: 2-0!

mealfred13
04-15-2005, 10:51 PM
Stud outing from our fifth starter.
:bandance: 2-0! Your PTC, eh?? :cool: Good call.

SoxWillWin
04-15-2005, 10:51 PM
Your PTC, eh?? :cool: Good call.

I picked him also:D:

PAPChiSox729
04-15-2005, 10:51 PM
Positive: We won! Garland pitched great. Uribe is starting to heat up. Hermanson was able to nail it down in the end.

Negative: Shingo and Marte are continuing to have control problems. Vizcaino looked OK, he just seems to have problems after pitching more then one inning. Ozzie continues to have trouble using the bullpen properly. And that is worrying me.

owensmouth
04-15-2005, 10:53 PM
Sox win... it beats the alternative

SoxFan48
04-15-2005, 10:53 PM
Positive: We won! Garland pitched great. Uribe is starting to heat up. Hermanson was able to nail it down in the end.

Negative: Shingo and Marte are continuing to have control problems. Vizcaino looked OK, he just seems to have problems after pitching more then one inning. Ozzie continues to have trouble using the bullpen properly. And that is worrying me.

And, yes, I agree with all your positives.

Brian26
04-15-2005, 10:53 PM
Wow, what a game. Shingo doesn't look confident at all, but at least we have Hermanson.

chisox2005
04-15-2005, 10:54 PM
Winnin' Ugly. Think Hermanson just won himself a closer role.

chidonez
04-15-2005, 10:54 PM
I just want to say, Garland gets the game ball, but Uribe deserves one too... 6 assists, and how many RBI's? He's looking pretty good in there.

Cowch44
04-15-2005, 10:54 PM
I'm really glad Crede got that rbi in the 8th, or this one would've made me bite my nails.

mealfred13
04-15-2005, 10:54 PM
And, yes, I agree with all your positives.

And let me add, Rowand is looking really good lately.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-15-2005, 10:54 PM
Quite a night. Garland is perfect for 6.1 innings. Hermanson nails it down in the ninth with the tying run on second base.

And jeremyb1 makes a token appearance, too! Not too surprising since both Reed and Olivo were playing tonight. If Seattle had D'angelo Jimenez in their line up, who doubts jeremy would have been cleaning the linens on his bed tomorrow morning?

:cool:

mealfred13
04-15-2005, 10:55 PM
I just want to say, Garland gets the game ball, but Uribe deserves one too... 6 assists, and how many RBI's? He's looking pretty good in there.

Speaking of which, if we had Valentin at SS, we might have lost this one.

chidonez
04-15-2005, 10:55 PM
Quite a night. Garland is perfect for 6.1 innings. Hermanson nails it down in the ninth with the tying run on second base.
:cool:

7.1, no?

FarWestChicago
04-15-2005, 10:55 PM
Quite a night. Garland is perfect for 6.1 innings. Hermanson nails it down in the ninth with the tying run on second base.

And jeremyb1 makes a token appearance, too! Not too surprising since both Reed and Olivo were playing tonight. If Seattle had D'angelo Jimenez in their line up, who doubts jeremy would have been cleaning the linens on his bed tomorrow morning?

:cool:LMAO!!!

:supernana:

JGarlandrules20
04-15-2005, 10:55 PM
And let me add, Rowand is looking really good lately.
That slide of his was amazing.

delben91
04-15-2005, 10:55 PM
Garland was outstanding, Rowand is swinging better, and looks like Uribe might be finding his stroke. Bullpen...well, Vizcaino may be limited to one inning, and Marte is either lights out, (3K in 3 batters on wednesday) or all over the place...or as all over the place as you can be in one hitter's time.

Love the determination I see from Hermanson though. You can tell he goes out there knowing he's better than the hitters he's facing.

Regardless of the path, a W is still much better than an L.

I'll be gone all weekend, with no way to check the scores, so here's to coming home to a sweep on sunday night.

GO SOX!!

MRKARNO
04-15-2005, 10:56 PM
7.1, no?

Nope it was 6.1. He lost it in the 7th inning, but he had only pitched 6 full innings to that point.

Brian26
04-15-2005, 10:56 PM
Speaking of which, if we had Valentin at SS, we might have lost this one.

That's very true.

mealfred13
04-15-2005, 10:56 PM
That slide of his was amazing.

Hahah, yes it was! Looked like superman or something. He's hustling his ass off out there.:D:

Brian26
04-15-2005, 10:57 PM
This is the best record the Sox have had in the first ten games of the season since 1991.

:bandance:

shoota
04-15-2005, 10:59 PM
Nice game from our #5 starter. So glad we have Hermanson in the bullpen. Uribe and JGar had good games.

I was disappointed in the Sox fans tonight. They should have been on their feet cheering for Garland on that 3-2 count to Reed in the 7th. Your starting pitcher is pitching a perfect game in the 7th and you can't even get excited and support him. LAME. In March I watched the David Cone perfect game on ESPN Classic, and the Yankee fans were standing and making a ton of noise on all full counts late in the game. They hung on every pitch. Sox fans tonight seemed like they couldn't be bothered. LAME.

RKMeibalane
04-15-2005, 11:00 PM
Quite a night. Garland is perfect for 6.1 innings. Hermanson nails it down in the ninth with the tying run on second base.

And jeremyb1 makes a token appearance, too! Not too surprising since both Reed and Olivo were playing tonight. If Seattle had D'angelo Jimenez in their line up, who doubts jeremy would have been cleaning the linens on his bed tomorrow morning?

:cool:

:rolling:

chidonez
04-15-2005, 11:04 PM
I just heard on the radio that something like 8 M's have the flu. Maybe that's why Boonie was wearing that chic neck warmer...

mealfred13
04-15-2005, 11:04 PM
The Sox had a 7-3 record last year after 10 games.

Buzzzzkilllll!

chisoxmike
04-15-2005, 11:05 PM
Buzzzzkilllll!

I was wrong, they were 6-4 after 10 games last year. My bad.

mealfred13
04-15-2005, 11:06 PM
I was wrong, they were 6-4 after 10 games last year. My bad.

Buzzkill averted! :gulp:

RKMeibalane
04-15-2005, 11:06 PM
Buzzzzkilllll!

I'm trying to forget about last year, thank you.

HebrewHammer
04-15-2005, 11:08 PM
In defense of Shingo, this was a terrible spot to put him in. Forcing him to pitch with the bases loaded doesn't play to his strengths at all. That being said, Hermanson should stay in the role until he loses it.

Great effort from Garland, he had tremendous stuff tonight.

FarWestChicago
04-15-2005, 11:09 PM
Quite a night. Garland is perfect for 6.1 innings. Hermanson nails it down in the ninth with the tying run on second base.

And jeremyb1 makes a token appearance, too! Not too surprising since both Reed and Olivo were playing tonight. If Seattle had D'angelo Jimenez in their line up, who doubts jeremy would have been cleaning the linens on his bed tomorrow morning?

:cool:He's got even more to be happy about. Barry :smokin: Zito's ERA is down near 8. I guess they have better pot in Florida than here. :D:

mealfred13
04-15-2005, 11:09 PM
In defense of Shingo, this was a terrible spot to put him in. Forcing him to pitch with the bases loaded doesn't play to his strengths at all. That being said, Hermanson should stay in the role until he loses it.

Great effort from Garland, he had tremendous stuff tonight.

Right. It's apparent shingo can close when he starts the 9th. But other than that, I don't know about his reliability. Hermanson has no fear up there. That's what we need in a closer.

Velvet_Fog
04-15-2005, 11:10 PM
Another "shut your mouth" for Garland critics.....YES!!!!

till he gets rocked in his next outing lol.

shoota
04-15-2005, 11:14 PM
I'm really glad Crede got that rbi in the 8th, or this one would've made me bite my nails.

haha, you mean that shoulda been 5-4-3 double play? You should be really glad that Boonie lost the ball in his snowsuit.

And yeah, Rowand's slide was beautiful to watch.

clogoodie
04-15-2005, 11:16 PM
I'm really worried about Shingo and the way Ozzie's been using him doesn't help matters (although I'd like to think that if we were up 3 runs instead of 4, Shingo starts the inning)...

::Shudders at the thought of a Byung-Hyun Kim type meltdown::

veeter
04-15-2005, 11:17 PM
In defense of Shingo, this was a terrible spot to put him in. Forcing him to pitch with the bases loaded doesn't play to his strengths at all. That being said, Hermanson should stay in the role until he loses it.

Great effort from Garland, he had tremendous stuff tonight. You are 100% right. Why not let Shingo start the inning? That's his role correct? Vizcaino is really a one inning pitcher. Ozzie continue to puzzle me with his Manuelesque decisions. Kudos to KW for building a deep bullpen.

HebrewHammer
04-15-2005, 11:21 PM
One more thing...

Garland might not have been perfect, but the day sure was.

Perfect Day #4 and we're ten games into the season.
:gulp: :bandance: :gulp:

Ol' No. 2
04-15-2005, 11:27 PM
You are 100% right. Why not let Shingo start the inning? That's his role correct? Vizcaino is really a one inning pitcher. Ozzie continue to puzzle me with his Manuelesque decisions. Kudos to KW for building a deep bullpen.It doesn't make a damn bit of difference when he comes in. If he can't throw strikes, he's toast. He's not the kind of pitcher that can survive pitching from behind.

Brian26
04-15-2005, 11:28 PM
You are 100% right. Why not let Shingo start the inning? That's his role correct?

Well, it wasn't a save situation when the inning started.

JB98
04-15-2005, 11:30 PM
You are 100% right. Why not let Shingo start the inning? That's his role correct? Vizcaino is really a one inning pitcher. Ozzie continue to puzzle me with his Manuelesque decisions. Kudos to KW for building a deep bullpen.

I actually agreed with the decision to let Vizcaino stay out there. He looked very impressive in the eighth. Now that he's proven that he's a one-inning pitcher, my thought process will be different next time. Let's hope Ozzie's is as well.

I've been highly critical of Ozzie's bullpen management in the past, but I really don't have problem with anything that took place tonight.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-15-2005, 11:31 PM
He's got even more to be happy about. Barry :smokin: Zito's ERA is down near 8. I guess they have better pot in Florida than here. :D:

I was really hoping he would give us his lecture about the abject racism of the gong when Shingo came in from the 'pen. Ah well... we'll always have our memories, won't we?
:cool:

RKMeibalane
04-15-2005, 11:31 PM
Be careful talking about Shingo, guys. Jeremyb1 is around the boards tonight. He'll probably accuse everyone here of being racist for complaining about what happened.

RKMeibalane
04-15-2005, 11:32 PM
I was really hoping he would give us his lecture about the abject racism of the gong when Shingo came in from the 'pen. Ah well... we'll always have our memories, won't we?
:cool:

Wow. That was weird. :cool:

DaleJRFan
04-15-2005, 11:40 PM
Glad to see ARow back to his ol' self. The bats looked good tonight with a few exceptions... Good offensive game for the Sox. Jon Garland was lights out... man... I was laughing out loud when he made Beltre look like a fool up there. I don't think I've seen Garland throw a 2-seamer with that much inward break. WOW. Throwing the 4-seamer 94+. Awesome outing. I hope he can keep it going. We need him. As much as we Sox fans adore Shingo, I think that Hermanson has proven (at least to me) that he is a better pitcher. Hermanson should be the closer unless proven otherwise. The guy's got closer stuff and goes right after guys by throwing strikes. Maybe I am nuts, but I'd really like to see what Hermanson can do with the closer role for the duration of the season.

PAPChiSox729
04-15-2005, 11:48 PM
As much as we Sox fans adore Shingo, I think that Hermanson has proven (at least to me) that he is a better pitcher. Hermanson should be the closer unless proven otherwise. The guy's got closer stuff and goes right after guys by throwing strikes. Maybe I am nuts, but I'd really like to see what Hermanson can do with the closer role for the duration of the season.

You're not the only one. I trust Hermanson the most out of any of our relievers. I am sure Shingo will get his control back and be fine. But I really feel more comfortable with Hermanson closing rather then Shingo.

HomeFish
04-15-2005, 11:53 PM
1 cheeseburger at O'Malley's.
1 kosher hotdog
2 Churros
1 home run into my section
8 runs by the Pirates

1 really good day for me

JB98
04-15-2005, 11:54 PM
Glad to see ARow back to his ol' self. The bats looked good tonight with a few exceptions... Good offensive game for the Sox. Jon Garland was lights out... man... I was laughing out loud when he made Beltre look like a fool up there. I don't think I've seen Garland throw a 2-seamer with that much inward break. WOW. Throwing the 4-seamer 94+. Awesome outing. I hope he can keep it going. We need him. As much as we Sox fans adore Shingo, I think that Hermanson has proven (at least to me) that he is a better pitcher. Hermanson should be the closer unless proven otherwise. The guy's got closer stuff and goes right after guys by throwing strikes. Maybe I am nuts, but I'd really like to see what Hermanson can do with the closer role for the duration of the season.

You're not nuts. Hermanson has been the best reliever so far. I say we hand him the ball as long as he continues to pitch this well.

I haven't lost faith in Shingo. I just think you need to ride the hot hand.

CWSGuy406
04-15-2005, 11:54 PM
I really don't want Marte to become a lefty specialist... He's been our best reliever the past three seasons, it's really a waste to have him pitch to one guy and come out.

Ideally, Marte comes in to face Ichiro-Reed-Beltre-Ibanez. Some will disagree, but Marte's earned my faith, and Ozzie isn't doing a good job at using the bullpen so far.

But no more complainin' from me, we won. :smile:

Fake Chet Lemon
04-15-2005, 11:55 PM
Shingo will be fine, but he has to start an inning. He's prone to having those outings where he walks a couple, but he usually gets out of it. Will Ozzie finally quit over extending Viz? What a bullpen by built Kenny: Cliff, Viz, Dustin and Shingo will all get their share of important late game outs. Let's keep Marte in the 7th and 8th where he excels. He seems to have some LaTroy Hawkins in him, and doesn't like 9th innings.

JB98
04-15-2005, 11:55 PM
1 cheeseburger at O'Malley's.
1 kosher hotdog
2 Churros
1 home run into my section
8 runs by the Pirates

1 really good day for me

Fish, I swear you spend more time worrying about the Cubs than you do rooting for the Sox.

Trust me, the North Siders aren't going to do much this year.

infohawk
04-15-2005, 11:55 PM
I'm glad Hermanson can pitch in a variety of situations, but I'm a bit nervous about making him the everyday closer. Certainly not because he can't do the job, but because I really like his ability to pitch two consecutive solid innings to get to the closer.

I still believe Shingo is an effective closer. I'm not sure it was ideal to bring in Shingo with two on and one out in the ninth. I also wonder if he just struggles more in colder weather. He didn't get much of an opportunity tonight, but given the situation and similarity to the blown Cleveland game, removing him was a good idea. Who knows what would have happened had he begun the ninth, or come in after the first batter reached?

If Shingo does begin to struggle on a consistent basis, making him a set-up man would only make it more difficult to ever get to the closer to begin with. I'm comfortable with Hermanson and Vizcaino between the sixth and eighth innings. Were Shingo to struggle, I don't want to consistently rely on Shingo, Politte and Cotts in the sixth or seventh innings to get to Vizcaino and Hermanson.

Fake Chet Lemon
04-16-2005, 12:00 AM
Did anyone else notice the first swing Carl took tonight? It makes me a tad nervous. He took the swing, then took his left arm and threw a shadow punch and seemed to grimace. Maybe you TiVo guys can verify? I hope his shoulder is fine. He seems to be such a better hitter when completely healthy, compared to last year. It'll be interesting to see how he does the next few days. He is key until Frank returns.

Velvet_Fog
04-16-2005, 12:12 AM
i'm just scared of ozzie overmanaging the pitching staff this year.

row18
04-16-2005, 12:17 AM
Just a comment,
Seattle pinched hit for Olivo in the 9th with the bases loaded. I guess they're loving their HOF catcher.

MRKARNO
04-16-2005, 12:22 AM
Just a comment,
Seattle pinched hit for Olivo in the 9th with the bases loaded. I guess they're loving their HOF catcher.

Yup, it's becoming increasingly clear that Olivo probably wont ever amount to being an upper tier catcher due to his inability to hit the breaking ball and his overall impatience.

JB98
04-16-2005, 12:23 AM
Just a comment,
Seattle pinched hit for Olivo in the 9th with the bases loaded. I guess they're loving their HOF catcher.

But Jeremy Reed got a bloop hit in the ninth!!!!
Cmon, KW got swindled!!!!

mealfred13
04-16-2005, 12:32 AM
But Jeremy Reed got a bloop hit in the ninth!!!!
Cmon, KW got swindled!!!!

He also drew the perfect-game-crushing walk IIRC... Damn it!

DaleJRFan
04-16-2005, 12:33 AM
Did anyone else notice the first swing Carl took tonight? It makes me a tad nervous. He took the swing, then took his left arm and threw a shadow punch and seemed to grimace. Maybe you TiVo guys can verify? I hope his shoulder is fine. He seems to be such a better hitter when completely healthy, compared to last year. It'll be interesting to see how he does the next few days. He is key until Frank returns.

He does that on every pitch he misses... he always looks so quirky up there throwing punches into his view of the strike zone.

Banix12
04-16-2005, 12:50 AM
I don't really think it's all about getting Shingo in at the start of the inning. He's done well in the past coming in in the middle of innings. I think DJ actually hit it on the head when he said that Shingo gets in trouble when he is letting the hitters see too many pitches.

Tonight he didn't seem to want to finish the job and attack the hitters. He'd get a couple strikes and then start throwing outside and throwing a lot of pitches low in the strikezone, hoping the hitter will get himself out. That's all fine but when push comes to shove you have to trust your stuff and throw them something a bit more enticing when the hitters won't swing at bad pitches.

Anyway, it's a good win, Garland and Uribe were stellar and kudos to Joe Crede on keeping his hitting streak alive. It's still early in the season but it's good to see him get something together.

slavko
04-16-2005, 01:03 AM
No Vizquel posters?And Shingo's control got lost around last August. Bullpen depth is sweet.

FarWestChicago
04-16-2005, 01:15 AM
I was really hoping he would give us his lecture about the abject racism of the gong when Shingo came in from the 'pen. Ah well... we'll always have our memories, won't we?
:cool:What do you know, Barry :smokin: Zito finished the night with his ERA under 8 (and I'm kind of bummed about Florida having better bong matter than the Bay Area). :o:

Zito :smokin: lost, but jeremy is still a genius for worshipping at the Church of Beane. :D:

SOX ADDICT '73
04-16-2005, 01:26 AM
Okay stat-heads:

In 2003 and 2004, how long did it take before we had two wins from our fifth starter (not to mention 2-0)?

WikdChiSoxFan
04-16-2005, 02:18 AM
i'm just scared of ozzie overmanaging the pitching staff this year.

relax, i think he did very well last year...I wouldn't be able to criticize his management at all...for a rookie manager, he's pretty good...for instance, tonight...perhaps he should have gotten garland out a little sooner, or at least gone to the mound after the hit, and perhaps vizquaino was in a little longer than he should have been...be we came out with a win despite the horrible situations our pitchers were put in

Mohoney
04-16-2005, 02:46 AM
Shingo will be fine, but he has to start an inning.

I think you're absolutely right on this. When given a fresh frame, like Opening Day, Shingo definitely fares better.

For a fresh 9th, I go to Shingo. With runners on base in the 8th, I go to Hermanson, and if he's lights-out, just keep him in and save Shingo for another day.

Dub25
04-16-2005, 03:16 AM
In defense of Shingo, this was a terrible spot to put him in. Forcing him to pitch with the bases loaded doesn't play to his strengths at all. That being said, Hermanson should stay in the role until he loses it.

Great effort from Garland, he had tremendous stuff tonight.

Uh No, the bases were not loaded when he came in. He made them loaded with a hit to left and then walking the next guy.

CleeFan101
04-16-2005, 03:52 AM
Uh No, the bases were not loaded when he came in. He made them loaded with a hit to left and then walking the next guy.

The bases were loaded and than Shingo let Boone hit a 2 run single. Than shingo loaded them by walking the next guy.

Anyways im sick of seeing Marte yanked so quickly.... If a guy is going to be taken out that early there is no point for him to be in there in the 1st place.

Also I think Hermanson should take over the closers role as of now until Shingo proves he can still throw 1-2-3 innings again.

SSN721
04-16-2005, 08:06 AM
As stated by Hebrew Hammer and some other posters I am still not worried about Shingo yet. He had trouble last April as well. I think with a fresh frame he has a much better chance to succeed. I just cant see handing the role to Hermanson yet, as good as he has looked. If he comes in the eighth, is mowing them down, then I guess leave him in for the ninth, but for the time being if Shingo can come in a regular situation in the ninth on a fresh frame, I would still trust him to close out a game. But it sure is nice Hermanson is there as a little insurance. I think Shingo will regain his control, just a really bad spot to put a pitcher with his style in. Otherwise, tense game, but they pulled it out, not happy with the way the bullpen was managed in the ninth but happy we got the win. Still dont have much to complain about with this team yet, 4 series starts, and we are halfway to winning our 4th consecutive series. And how about holding down Ichiro until his last at bat? If anyone was gonna break up the perfect game I thought it would definitely be him. Great job Jonny. :D:
:gulp: :supernana:

elrod
04-16-2005, 09:20 AM
I couldn't help but think that Dustin is our closer for now. I think Shingo should get some spots in late-middle relief for a bit to get his control back. When he falls behind batters he throws more fastballs up and hitters get used to him. He's effective when he's ahead of the batter and he can throw the frisbee at will. Shingo will be the closer again but he's lost some of his nerve and his control for now. No need to punish him by putting him in situations where he can't contribute. Fortunately we have other options this year so let's use them. Dustin closes for a bit, Shingo is the 7th inning guy. When Shingo becomes the Shingo of old then he goes back to the closer spot and Dustin goes to set-up. Ideally it's Vizcaino in the 7th, Dustin and/or Marte in the 8th, and Shingo in the 9th. For now, while Dustin is lights out and Shingo struggles, it should be Shingo in the 7th, Vizcaino/Marte in the 8th, and Dustin in the 9th.

Ol' No. 2
04-16-2005, 10:12 AM
I just don't understand why no one is complaining about Ozzie using four relievers in the 9th inning last night.:?: Maybe he should have left in Marte and saved the rest of the bullpen in case they tied the game?

PaleHoseGeorge
04-16-2005, 10:25 AM
I just don't understand why no one is complaining about Ozzie using four relievers in the 9th inning last night.:?: Maybe he should have left in Marte and saved the rest of the bullpen in case they tied the game?

Did he bring in Shingo with a four-run lead to start the ninth?
Is today's opponent the 3-time defending division champion?
Was the catcher warming up in the bullpen?

Yeah, I can understand your confusion...
:cool:

Ol' No. 2
04-16-2005, 10:45 AM
Did he bring in Shingo with a four-run lead to start the ninth?
Is today's opponent the 3-time defending division champion?
Was the catcher warming up in the bullpen?

Yeah, I can understand your confusion...
:cool:The last time Ozzie used three relievers in one inning (7th inning of 4/7 Indians game), none of those things were true.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-16-2005, 11:05 AM
The last time Ozzie used three relievers in one inning (7th inning of 4/7 Indians game), none of those things were true.

No, they CAME TRUE because Ozzie used three relievers in the seventh inning.

HebrewHammer
04-16-2005, 11:10 AM
Uh No, the bases were not loaded when he came in. He made them loaded with a hit to left and then walking the next guy.

Uh yes, Marte had just hit Ibanez to load the bases right before Shingo was brought in.

voodoochile
04-16-2005, 11:27 AM
No, they CAME TRUE because Ozzie used three relievers in the seventh inning.

Yes, using 3 pitchers in the 7th inning of a game you are leading by 4 = bad idea.

Using 4 pitchers in the 9th inning of agame you are leading by 4 but keeps getting closer until the final 2 outs are recorded with the tying run at 2nd and go-ahead run at 1st = good bullpen management.

And no, I am NOT being sarastic. The only mistake he made last night was letting Vizcaino start the ninth.

MRKARNO
04-16-2005, 11:42 AM
The only mistake he made last night was letting Vizcaino start the ninth.

But that was a really big mistake that led to all of the other problems. It's impossible to ignore this. I've changed my thinking on this in that I said earlier that Hermanson or Shingo should have started the inning, but with two of the next three batters being lefty and 3 of the next five, it's clear that Marte should have started the inning. He was warming in the bullpen. Ozzie should have started the inning with him. He had the best chance to get Ichiro and Reed out to avoid having 2 players on with nobody out.

Ozzie reacted properly once he got in this quandry, but all the blame goes on him for getting in that situation in the first place.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-16-2005, 11:47 AM
Yes, using 3 pitchers in the 7th inning of a game you are leading by 4 = bad idea.

Using 4 pitchers in the 9th inning of agame you are leading by 4 but keeps getting closer until the final 2 outs are recorded with the tying run at 2nd and go-ahead run at 1st = good bullpen management.

And no, I am NOT being sarastic. The only mistake he made last night was letting Vizcaino start the ninth.

EXACTLY. That's been the point all along. Ozzie demonstrates little knowledge of how to manage a bullpen, not for failing to be clairvoyant (as others have sarcastically asserted) but for simply bushing his staff unnecessarily. This was the exact same failing of Terry Bevington -- and he was no genius either.

I'll give Ozzie this much credit. He waits for the pitchers to be warmed up before calling them into the game.
:wink:

PaleHoseGeorge
04-16-2005, 11:55 AM
But that was a really big mistake that led to all of the other problems. It's impossible to ignore this. I've changed my thinking on this in that I said earlier that Hermanson or Shingo should have started the inning, but with two of the next three batters being lefty and 3 of the next five, it's clear that Marte should have started the inning. He was warming in the bullpen. Ozzie should have started the inning with him. He had the best chance to get Ichiro and Reed out to avoid having 2 players on with nobody out.

Ozzie reacted properly once he got in this quandry, but all the blame goes on him for getting in that situation in the first place.
:rolleyes:

Okay, now THIS is an example of somebody finding fault with Ozzie for not being clairvoyant. Don't count me in your number.

Vizcaino sailed through the eighth, faced just 3 batters and struck out two of them. Maybe the hitters he would face in the ninth weren't the ideal ones Ozzie might wish for him to face, but there is no doubt Vizcaino looked sharp enough last night to handle all comers. **** happens...

Ozzie made the moves to win, something I would never second-guess. As the manager I hold him accountable for using his talent to win 90+ games, not just the one game we play each day. He's accountable for not bushing his staff unnecessarily, not for being clairvoyant.

CleeFan101
04-16-2005, 01:44 PM
Yeah he really didnt use 4 RP's in the 9th since Vizcaino pitched the 8th... He used 3 again.... But it was better this time because instead of letting Shingo stay out there and blow it he brought in the right guy to save it.... We also had 2 RP's left over including Cotts who can work multiple innings if need be... last time all we had left was Vizcaino who has shown so far he is only a 1 inning guy.