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stillz
04-15-2005, 11:07 AM
I've been debating a friend about whether Cubs-Sox is a legitimate baseball rivalry. He insists that it is NOT because it's not divisional and not rooted in history like Cubs-Cards, Red Sox-Yankees.

The Sox, he says, have no "true" rival and therefore Sox fans get way more excited about Cubs-Sox than Cub fans do.

I contend that it IS a legitimate rivalry; rich in city history, and worthy of excitement.

Any thoughts either way?

[Moderator Edit]

It's obvious some people simply can't imagine supporting the Sox without dumping on the Cubs, too. If you must indulge in this nonsense, keep it out of the Clubhouse.

tlebar318
04-15-2005, 11:10 AM
Cubs fan pretend not to be excited or that the series have no significance when the Sox whip the crap out of them every year but trust me if they were to win all of the sudden the series takes on major importance....Losers! Go Sox! :smile:

Iwritecode
04-15-2005, 11:15 AM
I've been debating a friend about whether Cubs-Sox is a legitimate baseball rivalry. He insists that it is NOT because it's not divisional and not rooted in history like Cubs-Cards, Red Sox-Yankees.

The Sox, he says, have no "true" rival and therefore Sox fans get way more excited about Cubs-Sox than Cub fans do.

I contend that it IS a legitimate rivalry; rich in city history, and worthy of excitement.

Any thoughts either way?

It's a rivalry in that they compete for fans and entertainment dollars more so than wins and losses.

It's a unique rivalry since they are in seperate leaugues but the same city, although it's no less intense than any other in baseball IMO.

Rocklive99
04-15-2005, 11:16 AM
Cubs fan pretend not to be excited or that the series have no significance when the Sox whip the crap out of them every year but trust me if they were to win all of the sudden the series takes on major importance....Losers! Go Sox! :smile:

Exactly, took the words right out of my mouth. Oh how I hate Cub fans, everything is always spinned to their advantage

mweflen
04-15-2005, 11:18 AM
Are the Mets and Yankees a rivalry? The Giants and A's?

If yes, then so is Sox-Cubs.

Also, If you've ever gone to a Sox-Cubs game at Wrigley, you'll know - they care.

MIgrenade
04-15-2005, 11:29 AM
You may be able to put cross-town rivalries into a separate category than divisional rivals but it is still a rivalry. And last I checked the Sox and Twins have developed a rivalry, not that a Cubs fan would notice.

Foulke You
04-15-2005, 11:32 AM
It is most certainly a rivalry and in my opinion, the BEST in baseball. It isn't the divisional cold war that Yanks/Red Sox has become but our rivalry is unique as its lineage can be traced back over 100 years in this city. That's a long time for festering animosity between two groups of fans who happen to share the same city. It wasn't until 1997 were the two teams finally able to take each other on in games that counted.

It is very trendy for Cub fans to poo poo the rivarly and say it means more to us. This is a bunch of lies. How many Cards fans are Cub fans going to harass at work if Prior pitches a gem and beats them? Zero, because the Cards are in St Louis! But boy if the Cubs were to beat the Sox, that same Cub fan would be dancing a jig in his Sox fan friend's office at work. This is what makes the rivarly unique. Two teams, same city. Take a listen to the crowds during Sox vs Cubs games and then listen to a Cubs/Cards crowd or a Sox/Twins crowd. It doesn't compare to the playoff atmosphere that happens every time the two Chicago teams meet. The fans are with every pitch, every out, and every play. That Carlos Lee walkoff grand slam in '01 vs the Cubs is the absolute loudest I've ever heard Comiskey Park. The moment you enter the ballpark with the allegiances split, there is a buzz to the crowd. Heck, I've even been on the L going to one of the crosstown games and the groups of fans heckling each other back and forth. I may hate the Cubs, but the rivalry is part of what makes baseball such a fun sport. What kind of story could you tell if there was only Luke Skywalker (Sox) and no Darth Vader (Cubs)?:D:

Bias
04-15-2005, 11:40 AM
I've been debating a friend about whether Cubs-Sox is a legitimate baseball rivalry. He insists that it is NOT because it's not divisional and not rooted in history like Cubs-Cards, Red Sox-Yankees.

The Sox, he says, have no "true" rival and therefore Sox fans get way more excited about Cubs-Sox than Cub fans do.

I contend that it IS a legitimate rivalry; rich in city history, and worthy of excitement.

Any thoughts either way?

[Moderator Edit]

It's obvious some people simply can't imagine supporting the Sox without dumping on the Cubs, too. If you must indulge in this nonsense, keep it out of the Clubhouse.


I don't understand how people claim the Cards-Cubs is a rivalry. Cubs almost never contend, to me the Mets Cards was more of a rivarly, they used to ACTUALLY play for first place and something was on the line when they played.

Whatever.......

SOXintheBURGH
04-15-2005, 11:40 AM
It is most certainly a rivalry and in my opinion, the BEST in baseball. It isn't the divisional cold war that Yanks/Red Sox has become but our rivalry is unique as its lineage can be traced back over 100 years in this city. That's a long time for festering animosity between two groups of fans who happen to share the same city. It wasn't until 1997 were the two teams finally able to take each other on in games that counted.

It is very trendy for Cub fans to poo poo the rivarly and say it means more to us. This is a bunch of lies. How many Cards fans are Cub fans going to harass at work if Prior pitches a gem and beats them? Zero, because the Cards are in St Louis! But boy if the Cubs were to beat the Sox, that same Cub fan would be dancing a jig in his Sox fan friend's office at work. This is what makes the rivarly unique. Two teams, same city. Take a listen to the crowds during Sox vs Cubs games and then listen to a Cubs/Cards crowd or a Sox/Twins crowd. It doesn't compare to the playoff atmosphere that happens every time the two Chicago teams meet. The fans are with every pitch, every out, and every play. That Carlos Lee walkoff grand slam in '01 vs the Cubs is the absolute loudest I've ever heard Comiskey Park. The moment you enter the ballpark with the allegiances split, there is a buzz to the crowd. Heck, I've even been on the L going to one of the crosstown games and the groups of fans heckling each other back and forth. I may hate the Cubs, but the rivalry is part of what makes baseball such a fun sport. What kind of story could you tell if there was only Luke Skywalker (Sox) and no Darth Vader (Cubs)?:D:

While I agree with 99% of this post, please do not give the Cubs the honor of being compared to the biggest badass of all time, Lord Vader.

Maybe, perhaps, Luke Skywalker (Sox) and the Rancor (Cubs)?

Foulke You
04-15-2005, 11:55 AM
While I agree with 99% of this post, please do not give the Cubs the honor of being compared to the biggest badass of all time, Lord Vader.

Maybe, perhaps, Luke Skywalker (Sox) and the Rancor (Cubs)?

Your opinion is noted the next time I bust out a Star Wars reference to drive a point home.:cool:

Lip Man 1
04-15-2005, 12:09 PM
There is some truth to what your friend says about the Sox not having a 'natural' rival anymore although the Twins appear to be filling that bill somewhat.

History shows however that the Sox greatest and most natural rival was the New York Yankees. The period of time from 1951 through 1964 saw intense pennant race games where Comiskey Park would be sold to overflowing. The two most renouned on field fights both took place in Chicago against them. I think it was in 1954 and 1957.

Those games were classics including as late as the four game sweep in August 1964 which prompted that famous Phil Linz harmonica episode.

When baseball split into two divisions in 1967 that rivalry ended.

Lip

DumpJerry
04-15-2005, 12:10 PM
The Sox, he says, have no "true" rival and therefore Sox fans get way more excited about Cubs-Sox than Cub fans do.

:?: how can he say that? The Sox/Twins rivalry has been alive for decades. I remember the 1977 Southside Hitmen team going manno a manno with the Twins all season, not to mention other years where we have had classic showdowns with them. Then there are those close games with the Indians........

Just because the East Coast/Tribune Company Media Hype Machine does not pay close attention to these annual match-ups like they do Yankee/Red Sox matchups does not mean there isn't a strong rivalry here. Quite frankly, I'm getting tired of the hype every time the Yanks and BoSox matchup, the media makes it sound like they're packing heat and will get violent. Enuogh already.

Clearly this is a typical Flub fan, ignorant of all things baseball.

Brian26
04-15-2005, 12:14 PM
:?: how can he say that? The Sox/Twins rivalry has been alive for decades. I remember the 1977 Southside Hitmen team going manno a manno with the Twins all season, not to mention other years where we have had classic showdowns with them. Then there are those close games with the Indians.........

Don't forget how it heated up again in 1991. The Sox were a game out of first at the end of July, and we were battling the Twins neck and neck. Hrbek and Hawk were feuding too. The rivalry has heated up moreso lately because of the unbalanced schedule, which is a good thing.

TommyJohn
04-15-2005, 01:16 PM
Hrbek and Hawk were feuding too.

"Grab some bench!"

Some baseball players can be real idiots (Kent Hrbeck.)

Orta 4-6-3
04-15-2005, 02:23 PM
Since they play a home & home series every year, yes, it's very much a legitamte rivalry. ESPN and the rest of the nation may not give a hoot, but I have never been to more intense regular season games then Sox versus Cubs.

Infallible
04-15-2005, 04:46 PM
its what happens when they suck......no further questions comments or concerns.

RKMeibalane
04-15-2005, 05:01 PM
While I agree with 99% of this post, please do not give the Cubs the honor of being compared to the biggest badass of all time, Lord Vader.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/daver/darth.jpg

"My thoughts exactly."

RKMeibalane
04-15-2005, 05:03 PM
The Sox-Cubs rivalry is a true rivalry, at least as far as the fans are concerned. Sox fans hate Cubs fans, and Cubs fans hate Sox fans, at least when they're not too wasted to know what's going on. The Sox biggest rival; however, is not the Cubs, but the Twins. There is definitely a great deal of enmity that exists between the two organizations, extending from the front-offices of each team down to the fans.

Your friend is wrong when he says that the Sox have no true rival. You'd have to be dead not to feel the electricity at the 'Cell whenever the Twins are in town. I can feel it just watching the games on TV.

TheBull19
04-16-2005, 11:42 AM
You may be able to put cross-town rivalries into a separate category than divisional rivals but it is still a rivalry. And last I checked the Sox and Twins have developed a rivalry, not that a Cubs fan would notice.

Yeah, and if the Tigers ever get it together, we'd have another great rival. In the past, it was a good rivalry. I hated it when I went to game as a little kid, and on the way my Dad would say, "they're playing the Tigers." Any team but the Tigers! Of course, back then I was only happy when the sox won 12-0.

SOXSINCE'70
04-16-2005, 10:37 PM
they care.


They care until beer glass # 5 is empty by inning #3.:rolling: :rolling:

nasox
04-17-2005, 08:50 AM
Since the teams are in the same citry, the teams draw about half and half fans from each team. But in a red sox yankmes rivalry, for example, this isn't the case. That makes attending the games tons of fun.