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1917
04-14-2005, 08:34 AM
You gotta love it...I've seen the guy dive into 1st base twice this week and beat them out both times...thats hustle....if he doesn't hurt himself doing it!

JRIG
04-14-2005, 08:38 AM
You gotta love it...I've seen the guy dive into 1st base twice this week and beat them out both times...thats hustle....if he doesn't hurt himself doing it!

Of course, sliding into first base is usually a very bad idea, as it slows you down. It's better to keep running.

I know on Sunday, he had to slide to avoid a potential tag, but let's not be Roberto Alomar and make a habit of it.

converted
04-14-2005, 08:44 AM
Of course, sliding into first base is usually a very bad idea, as it slows you down. It's better to keep running.

I know on Sunday, he had to slide to avoid a potential tag, but let's not be Roberto Alomar and make a habit of it.

If he continues to slide in safe, I say let him go! What a pleasant suprise this guy has been for the White Sox so far! Loves it! :D:

IlliniSox
04-14-2005, 09:04 AM
Give him one more week of hustlin', I'm buyin' his jersey.

WikdChiSoxFan
04-14-2005, 09:11 AM
I heart Pablo Ozuna.

BRDSR
04-14-2005, 09:38 AM
If he continues to slide in safe, I say let him go! What a pleasant suprise this guy has been for the White Sox so far! Loves it! :D:

A good third post, but I'm more interested in your name? Are you a converted Hindu or a converted White Sox fan? And from what?

fquaye149
04-14-2005, 10:37 AM
Of course, sliding into first base is usually a very bad idea, as it slows you down. It's better to keep running.

I know on Sunday, he had to slide to avoid a potential tag, but let's not be Roberto Alomar and make a habit of it.

That's really not true - it gives you a reach factor you woudln't get otherwise.

But failing that (and it is debatable) it gives the appearance of hustle to the umpire and you might get some calls you wouldn't otherwise

It's the exact opposite of how if you DON'T slide into a base, even if you're safe and it's close an ump might call you out.

Or how a pop-up slide can make you look safe.

Umpires aren't perfect and they have their prejudices.

Uribe=MVP
04-14-2005, 10:52 AM
Regardless of Ozuna's sliding habits (which I personally think are wonderful), his overall hustle is something that should be rewarded with more playing time, to lead by example and show the guys that you need to do more than glide through games on your natural ability. His hustle, combined with his ability to play many positions, will probably keep him here for a while.

jabrch
04-14-2005, 11:06 AM
I love the fact that we have too many guys and not enough places to play them. Our depth chart is awesome. It looks much more like a National League team should - when you double switch a lot. We have 5 guys with experience playing CF - that's fricking AMAZING.

IF Crede struggles after the first few months, then I'd like to see Uribe spell him at 3B and Ozuna at SS. Can Ozuna play 3B? Has he done it in the minors? I wouldn't want him there every day, but every now and then.

I gotta imagine KW is building himself a lot of trade value in this roster right now. I'm not sure where, but I bet he is able to make a bigtime acquistion late in the season.

http://images.sportsline.com/images/baseball/mlb/players/60x80/7378.jpg
"I'm likely available"

:KW
"No...not you"

:everett:
"What about me?"

:KW
"I have you already"

http://images.sportsline.com/images/baseball/mlb/players/60x80/200627.jpg
"I hate Tampa - this place SUCKS. Trade for me!"

:KW
"Now THAT'S MY KIND OF GUY!"


I would like to formally start the Trade for Aubrey Huff Club here at WSI. Either you are with me - or against me.

(Note - I don't want to trade B-Mac, but I'd love to see us get Huff if that would be doable without trading B-Mac.)

DaleJRFan
04-14-2005, 11:14 AM
I would like to formally start the Trade for Aubrey Huff Club here at WSI. Either you are with me - or against me.


I am TOTALLY with you on this one. Aubrey rules. One year left on his contract with a club option for 2006.

PatK
04-14-2005, 11:15 AM
I think it was Rod Carew during Friday's game that said "I'll believe that sliding is faster when sprinters start diving across the finish line".

IMO, it's no that it doesn't get you there faster, it's that there's a good chance you may hurt yourself a la Jr. Spivey.

Regardless, Ozuna's hustle has been impressive.

Jjav829
04-14-2005, 11:30 AM
I would like to formally start the Trade for Aubrey Huff Club here at WSI. Either you are with me - or against me.

(Note - I don't want to trade B-Mac, but I'd love to see us get Huff if that would be doable without trading B-Mac.)

I don't think there'd be a single person against trading for Aubrey Huff, but it's not very likely. And it would most likely cost us B-mac.

I guess I'm not as impressed with the .182 hitting 30-year-old career minor leaguer as everyone else.

jabrch
04-14-2005, 11:30 AM
I think it was Rod Carew during Friday's game that said "I'll believe that sliding is faster when sprinters start diving across the finish line".


And it will be comparable when sprinters are running on dirt and not on synthetic rubber or worse yet concrete.

But I do agree. I'd love to see someone with a stopwatch time guys and compare their run time to their slide time. Either way - I do love seeing Ozuna hustle.

jabrch
04-14-2005, 11:33 AM
I don't think there'd be a single person against trading for Aubrey Huff

In my few years of posting here, I don't think I have heard more than 5 issues where there is unanimous agreement. I would not at all be surprised if in the context of a Huff for Sweeney or Anderson and Gio or Lumsden deal that SOMEONE wouldn't be against it.

Tampa has to do something with him. They have a load of young hitters right now and I can't see 5-7mm in the budget for an Aubrey Huff next year, much less 10+mm in the future when he hits FA.

voodoochile
04-14-2005, 11:35 AM
I think it was Rod Carew during Friday's game that said "I'll believe that sliding is faster when sprinters start diving across the finish line".

IMO, it's no that it doesn't get you there faster, it's that there's a good chance you may hurt yourself a la Jr. Spivey.

Regardless, Ozuna's hustle has been impressive.

Yes, this is an excellent point. It's always faster to run through the bag, but in select incidences (like the first time when he was trying to avoid a tag and had the 1B beat to the bag regardless) it's the right move.

Jjav829
04-14-2005, 11:45 AM
In my few years of posting here, I don't think I have heard more than 5 issues where there is unanimous agreement. I would not at all be surprised if in the context of a Huff for Sweeney or Anderson and Gio or Lumsden deal that SOMEONE wouldn't be against it.

Tampa has to do something with him. They have a load of young hitters right now and I can't see 5-7mm in the budget for an Aubrey Huff next year, much less 10+mm in the future when he hits FA.

The problem is that the Devil Rays are going to want pitching. They won't have interest in any of our young outfielders. That's the biggest strength of our farm system. The Rays have Crawford who they just locked up long term. Baldelli is in their future in the OF, so that's two of three spots locked up long term. Delmon Young figures to take over that final OF spot soon.

They'd want pitching and I'm sure they start off asking for B-Mac. Then again, it is Chuck LaMar we're talking about here. He might fall in love with Pablo Ozuna and Chris Widger and make that deal. :tongue:

Ol' No. 2
04-14-2005, 11:55 AM
I'd love to see someone with a stopwatch time guys and compare their run time to their slide time. Either way - I do love seeing Ozuna hustle.It's been done to death. Stopwatches, high speed cameras, you name it. Running is faster than sliding. Otherwise, why run to first base at all? Why not just drop to the ground right out of the batter's box and slide all the way down to first base?

VivaOzzie
04-14-2005, 12:04 PM
It's been done to death. Stopwatches, high speed cameras, you name it. Running is faster than sliding. Otherwise, why run to first base at all? Why not just drop to the ground right out of the batter's box and slide all the way down to first base?

:roflmao:

Haha i can just picture it!!

Banix12
04-14-2005, 12:24 PM
Ozuna's Hustle... wasn't that a dance move in the late 70's?

fquaye149
04-14-2005, 12:47 PM
It's been done to death. Stopwatches, high speed cameras, you name it. Running is faster than sliding. Otherwise, why run to first base at all? Why not just drop to the ground right out of the batter's box and slide all the way down to first base?

sophistry is fun.

But even if it's a trifle slower, the appearance makes up for it. remember: umps do not HAVE high speed cameras. (well maybe at home on a shelf...but that's no help come game time)

Jjav829
04-14-2005, 12:52 PM
sophistry is fun.

But even if it's a trifle slower, the appearance makes up for it. remember: umps do not HAVE high speed cameras. (well maybe at home on a shelf...but that's no help come game time)

How do you know the umps don't feel that sliding/diving into first base slows down the runner? Maybe they feel it slows the runner down and so on close plays where the runner slides they assume the runner got there a little slower. You're basing your whole argument on your opinion, but you don't know that the umpires feel the same way. They might agree that its quicker to run through the base.

maurice
04-14-2005, 01:11 PM
the appearance makes up for it.

:?:
Appearance of what? The ump is looking at the base. What difference does it make if he sees a hand or a foot touch it?

Voodoo is 100% correct. It's best to keep running through first base, unless you're trying to avoid a tag.

This is basic physics. The moment you leave your feet, you start slowing down. You slow down even more when your body starts dragging along the dirt. Besides, touching the bag with your hand requires you to drop your hand (and the rest of your body) to the ground, costing you even more time.

Ol' No. 2
04-14-2005, 01:16 PM
:?:
Appearance of what? The ump is looking at the base. What difference does it make if he sees a hand or a foot touch it?

Voodoo is 100% correct. It's best to keep running through first base, unless you're trying to avoid a tag.

This is basic physics. The moment you leave your feet, you start slowing down. You slow down even more when your body starts dragging along the dirt. Besides, touching the bag with your hand requires you to drop your hand (and the rest of your body) to the ground, costing you even more time.They start teaching this in Little League. It continually amazes me when I see major leaguers slide into first base.:?:

PatK
04-14-2005, 02:02 PM
Don't the Brewers fine people in their organization for sliding into first? And I'm talking at all levels of their organization.

converted
04-14-2005, 02:13 PM
A good third post, but I'm more interested in your name? Are you a converted Hindu or a converted White Sox fan? And from what?

I am a converted White Sox fan (officially converted in 03). My family is full of scrub-lovers, and though I never claimed to love them, I fell into the family trap of rooting for them. Truth be told, I rooted for the White Sox too. Once I grew a brain, I realized which team I was meant to cheer for, so here I am, totally devoted to my Guys in Black and couldn't be prouder!

:)

voodoochile
04-14-2005, 02:31 PM
I am a converted White Sox fan (officially converted in 03). My family is full of scrub-lovers, and though I never claimed to love them, I fell into the family trap of rooting for them. Truth be told, I rooted for the White Sox too. Once I grew a brain, I realized which team I was meant to cheer for, so here I am, totally devoted to my Guys in Black and couldn't be prouder!

:)

Awesome. You are not alone. There are several posters (your's truly included) who once rooted for the lovable losers before seeing the light and running towards it as fast as their legs could carry them.

Just remember, in a few years, the flubbies are going to set a record that will never be broken (I believe Australia had a better run in the America's Cup than the flubbies are currently having) 100 years between championships. We can all toast that accomplishment and laugh laugh laugh...:D:

mweflen
04-14-2005, 02:47 PM
Ozuna is what Willie should have been last year.

fquaye149
04-14-2005, 03:21 PM
How do you know the umps don't feel that sliding/diving into first base slows down the runner? Maybe they feel it slows the runner down and so on close plays where the runner slides they assume the runner got there a little slower. You're basing your whole argument on your opinion, but you don't know that the umpires feel the same way. They might agree that its quicker to run through the base.

You're right I don't know anything for certain. It just seems to me that I've seen ballplayers get a lot more close calls when they look like they're hustling.

This can't be proven at all, and you're right - the only umps I've spoken to about this have been high school level.

However, this is the way it seems to me. Right or wrong, Pete Rose and Robbie had success with this. I dont' know.

batmanZoSo
04-14-2005, 03:27 PM
You're right I don't know anything for certain. It just seems to me that I've seen ballplayers get a lot more close calls when they look like they're hustling.

This can't be proven at all, and you're right - the only umps I've spoken to about this have been high school level.

However, this is the way it seems to me. Right or wrong, Pete Rose and Robbie had success with this. I dont' know.

I never liked the whole idea of sliding into first. The whole purpose of sliding is to evade the tag, so why slide into a base that doesn'trequires a tag? Another reason to slide is to break your momentum, so you don't overrun the base, but of course first base I believe has always allowed you to overrun it. And it seems players try to overrun the bag with their slide, too...to go over that hard base on your stomach just looks painful.

mweflen
04-14-2005, 03:48 PM
i agree that running into first is faster than sliding. but that's not the issue. the issue is what umpires believe.

Ol' No. 2
04-14-2005, 03:54 PM
i agree that running into first is faster than sliding. but that's not the issue. the issue is what umpires believe.If the ball gets there before you do, they're going to believe you're out.

JRIG
04-14-2005, 04:05 PM
If the ball gets there before you do, they're going to believe you're out.

But what if he believes you're trying really, really, really hard because you're sliding into first base and getting yor uniform dirty? Would that change his mind?

batmanZoSo
04-14-2005, 04:11 PM
But what if he believes you're trying really, really, really hard because you're sliding into first base and getting yor uniform dirty? Would that change his mind?

LOL. Yeah, umpring is supposed to be objective, not a court hearing.

After much deliberation, the umpire has reached a verdict:

Hmm. I like your hustle kid. SAFE!
::crowd cheers, runner hugs his attorney::

mweflen
04-14-2005, 04:17 PM
i agree that umps should be objective, and that they shouldn't be swayed by the head first slide.

but it sure seems like they are.

fquaye149
04-14-2005, 04:31 PM
But what if he believes you're trying really, really, really hard because you're sliding into first base and getting yor uniform dirty? Would that change his mind?

ugh. you guys are probably right. i was just trying to explain why a lot of major leaguers (especially the ones known for hustle and busting ass) along with why all the kids i knew in h.s. ball who slid like that do it.

if that's a problem, i apologize.

Ol' No. 2
04-14-2005, 04:34 PM
i agree that umps should be objective, and that they shouldn't be swayed by the head first slide.

but it sure seems like they are.I just don't know why you would think they are. Just looking at the responses here, everyone agrees running is faster than sliding. The vast majority of ballplayers know running is faster than sliding. Even if you'd never seen a baseball game in your life, common sense would tell you that running is faster than sliding. Umpires all played ball themselves at some level. They've been around the game their whole lives. Why would they be unique among mankind in thinking sliding is faster than running?:?:

fquaye149
04-14-2005, 06:01 PM
I just don't know why you would think they are. Just looking at the responses here, everyone agrees running is faster than sliding. The vast majority of ballplayers know running is faster than sliding. Even if you'd never seen a baseball game in your life, common sense would tell you that running is faster than sliding. Umpires all played ball themselves at some level. They've been around the game their whole lives. Why would they be unique among mankind in thinking sliding is faster than running?:?:

So would you assume using that logic that no baserunner ever gets deked out by, say, a shortstop pretending to field a ground ball? I mean, they've been around baseball their whole life...and common sense and logic dictates you should find the ball, not depend on an opposing fielder. . .

So deking out a baserunner by pretending ground ball or outfielders "camping under" duck snorts they have no chance of getting to is just a waste of time. Human beings don't make wrong decisions ever based on blind instinctual reactions that if given time to think about, they'd know were wrong...

Paulwny
04-14-2005, 06:24 PM
I think umpires would hate to see players sliding into 1st, it makes their call tougher. The ump places himself in a position where he can see the foot hit the bag. With a slide, the hand along the ground, his vision may be obscured by the bag, dirt tossed into the air and the shifting of a 1st baseman's leg position depending where the throw is.

JRIG
04-14-2005, 08:57 PM
Hard Evidence, Part 1:

8th Inning, Thursday night

Rowand called out, would have been safe if he kept running

fquaye149
04-15-2005, 04:24 AM
well, there it is.

maurice
04-15-2005, 12:00 PM
Rowand called out, would have been safe if he kept running

And healthier.

Ol' No. 2
04-15-2005, 01:13 PM
So would you assume using that logic that no baserunner ever gets deked out by, say, a shortstop pretending to field a ground ball? I mean, they've been around baseball their whole life...and common sense and logic dictates you should find the ball, not depend on an opposing fielder. . .

So deking out a baserunner by pretending ground ball or outfielders "camping under" duck snorts they have no chance of getting to is just a waste of time. Human beings don't make wrong decisions ever based on blind instinctual reactions that if given time to think about, they'd know were wrong...Maybe it's just because it's Friday afternoon, but I can't see the relevance of any of this to sliding into first base.:?:

Ol' No. 2
04-15-2005, 01:14 PM
Hard Evidence, Part 1:

8th Inning, Thursday night

Rowand called out, would have been safe if he kept runningYeah. What is going on?? Is this contagious or something?:?:

mweflen
04-15-2005, 01:20 PM
i've never been a fan of the first base slide, but moreso for injury reasons than ones of speed.