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View Full Version : Explanation for Sox possible switch to AM-670!!


GiveMeSox
04-11-2005, 07:28 PM
I was doing a little research into why the sox were so adament about leaving the score. I came across this website http://www.ac6v.com/clearam.htm#USA, which shows ClearChannel ratings for major AM stations. It shows both 670 and 1000 recieve the ClearChannel rating as both broadcast on 50 kw power antenna, however there is a difference. AM1000 is only broadcast mult-directional and at 50 kw during the day, they power down and become single directional (east) at night. AM 670 is always running at 50 kw day or night and always maintaining their multi-directional signal.

That might be the key right there. AM 1000's lack of being broadcast strength leader might make them the losers here. By defualt 670 can reach a lot more people which means the sox can reach a lot more people, which means more followers and more fans and more money. Its that simple folks. Too bad AM1000 is too cheap to make the upgrades, its going to cost them.

cheeses_h_rice
04-11-2005, 07:33 PM
I think it has more to do with $$$ and possible residual bad blood between the Chairman and AM1000 due to the hiring of a certain windsock blowhard a-hole as morning host. And yes, I realize that the windsock has been cut loose.

ChiWhiteSox1337
04-11-2005, 07:33 PM
It does make sense for the Sox to be on a station that can reach everyone in Illinois and other states, but I think the MLB is frowning down upon the stations that do reach multiple states because of satellite radio. The MLB wants more and more people to buy the XM radio package, which is apparent by the number of times I've saw that stupid "Why can't we be friends" commercial in the past week. :(:

kevingrt
04-11-2005, 07:34 PM
I could be wrong but isn't like AM 1000 their flagship station and they have a bunch of smaller stations that take over further south and in Iowa? Or am I completely wrong there.

ChiWhiteSox1337
04-11-2005, 07:35 PM
I could be wrong but isn't like AM 1000 their flagship station and they have a bunch of smaller stations that take over further south and in Iowa? Or am I completely wrong there.
There are multiple White Sox affiliates throughout Illinois. I know because I can't get AM 1000 out here most of the time, but I can listen to Sox broadcasts with Rooney and Farmer on 1440 AM.

cheeses_h_rice
04-11-2005, 07:35 PM
I could be wrong but isn't like AM 1000 their flagship station and they have a bunch of smaller stations that take over further south and in Iowa? Or am I completely wrong there.

AM1000 is the station that matters. If the Sox move to 670, then 670 will become their flagship station, and I would imagine that side deals would then be made with smaller stations downstate and in surrounding states.

ChiSoxRowand
04-11-2005, 07:35 PM
Some of the games are broadcast on WROK 1440 AM here in Rockford.

Frater Perdurabo
04-11-2005, 07:51 PM
Too bad AM1000 is too cheap to make the upgrades, its going to cost them.

AM 1000 may want to make upgrades, but they may be prevented from doing so by the FCC. Still, given the multidirectional signal penetration, I'm all for a move to AM 670. Back in the 60s, my father-in-law used to listen to White Sox games on a Dallas-area affiliate station on the then-White Sox radio network. (This was before the Senators moved to become the Texas Rangers.)

Kogs35
04-11-2005, 07:52 PM
uncle jerry is trying to get back at people who dont even work at am1000 anymore. the guy who brought it mariotti is gone. he is the same person that brought the cubs show on air, when he was fired it turned to chicago baseball today.

HawkISox
04-11-2005, 07:59 PM
670 AM can be picked up in a wide radius almost any time of day. The Sox affiliates in Iowa are in Dubuque, Davenport, and Burlington and do not reach too far to the West. You can get 670 all the way to Des Moines, and it comes in clear like a local station here in Iowa City. I can barely get 1000 AM even during the day.

JRIG
04-11-2005, 08:16 PM
There are multiple White Sox affiliates throughout Illinois. I know because I can't get AM 1000 out here most of the time, but I can listen to Sox broadcasts with Rooney and Farmer on 1440 AM.

There should be an accurate list of games that will air (in April at least) at www.wrok.com (http://www.wrok.com)

Go to the calendar page.

Fenway
04-11-2005, 08:18 PM
WMVP would love to upgrade their nightime signal but by Federal law they can not

They are one of 2 Class A channels on 1000, the other being in Seattle (KOMO)

Very simply WMVP can not beam west after sundown to protect the signal of the station in Seattle.

Clear1000 A,B,D WLUP, Chicago, IL: Class A (I-A)
KOMO, Seattle, WA: Class A (I-B)


AM Station Classes (http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/amclasses.html)

Why AM Radio Stations Must Reduce Power, Change Operations, or Cease Operations at Night (http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/bickel/daytime.html)

Blueprint1
04-11-2005, 08:21 PM
When i lived in Springfield you could get 670 but 1000 never came in.

bahn1225
04-11-2005, 08:31 PM
I could be wrong but isn't like AM 1000 their flagship station and they have a bunch of smaller stations that take over further south and in Iowa? Or am I completely wrong there.

I would say you are wrong.
In a word, The White Sox Radio Network, SUCKS.
Please keep in mind I'm referring to signal; not content.
1000 AM has always had an inferior signal since it's inception as
WC FL (The Voice of Labor.)
The signal can not be changed since it would interfere with another station somewhere else in the country at 1000 AM.

The word "network" is a little misleading as well.
There are a few stations that broadcast SOX games but most don't broadcast all the games.
Some don't broadcast night games as they are off the air.
Some don't broadcast day games because they are already paying
for daytime programming (read R.U.S.H.)
Some are even affiliates with other MLB teams; so if your a downstate station and have a choice between the Cardinals and the SOX, guess who wins?

Long time, long distance fans such as myself know that this is the way
it has always been and continues to be.
This is why it was such a lose when 670 AM WMAQ (We Must Ask Questions)
lost the SOX and went to AM1000.

Now as for Chicago's other franchise, we all know it's flagship seems to broadcast to China
and they have so many damned affiliates that overlap each other
that sometimes it's impossible not to hear them! (welcome to hell)

As for XM, I seriously doubt that MLB cares which station our SOX are on.

I want Mags back
04-11-2005, 09:21 PM
I could be wrong but isn't like AM 1000 their flagship station and they have a bunch of smaller stations that take over further south and in Iowa? Or am I completely wrong there.

Yeah, once i was listening at night, when I couldnt see the dial, and It turned out I was on a hammond station.

Palehose13
04-11-2005, 09:24 PM
670 comes in clear as day here in Milwaukee all the time. 1000 is full of static and is practically unlistenable in bad weather.

GiveMeSox
04-11-2005, 09:35 PM
WMVP would love to upgrade their nightime signal but by Federal law they can not

They are one of 2 Class A channels on 1000, the other being in Seattle (KOMO)

Very simply WMVP can not beam west after sundown to protect the signal of the station in Seattle.

Clear1000 A,B,D WLUP, Chicago, IL: Class A (I-A)
KOMO, Seattle, WA: Class A (I-B)


AM Station Classes (http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/amclasses.html)

Why AM Radio Stations Must Reduce Power, Change Operations, or Cease Operations at Night (http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/bickel/daytime.html)

Great explanation!!!

Viva Medias B's
04-11-2005, 09:42 PM
This afternoon, the Score ran a promo for its weekday schedule that may be a telltale sign of the White Sox coming to the station. The promo featured Gene Honda introducing the Score's weekday lineup.

MRKARNO
04-11-2005, 09:46 PM
DePaul is on WSCR and he is the DePaul announcer, so that's a possible alternative...

But that doesn't mean that you're correct in thinking it's a foreshadow of an announcement of the White Sox getting onto WSCR.

peeonwrigley
04-11-2005, 09:49 PM
DePaul is on WSCR and he is the DePaul announcer, so that's a possible alternative...

But that doesn't mean that you're correct in thinking it's a foreshadow of an announcement of the White Sox getting onto WSCR.

Did he announce the Final Four games, too? It sounded like him but the audio wasn't too great up in Section 430.

Assuming he did; did he do both opening day for the Sox and the Nat'l Championship game in St Louis? If so, I wish I could have just shadowed him all day.

Viva Medias B's
04-11-2005, 09:53 PM
Did he announce the Final Four games, too? It sounded like him but the audio wasn't too great up in Section 430.

Assuming he did; did he do both opening day for the Sox and the Nat'l Championship game in St Louis? If so, I wish I could have just shadowed him all day.

Gene didn't do Opening Day. Tom Shaer filled in for him. And Shaer was brutal.

GiveMeSox
04-11-2005, 10:00 PM
WMVP would love to upgrade their nightime signal but by Federal law they can not

They are one of 2 Class A channels on 1000, the other being in Seattle (KOMO)

Very simply WMVP can not beam west after sundown to protect the signal of the station in Seattle.

Clear1000 A,B,D WLUP, Chicago, IL: Class A (I-A)
KOMO, Seattle, WA: Class A (I-B)


AM Station Classes (http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/amclasses.html)

Why AM Radio Stations Must Reduce Power, Change Operations, or Cease Operations at Night (http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/bickel/daytime.html)

You see this is thing that doesn't make sense. The site that you listed says clearchannel stations on the same Freq at night cant operate within a 750 mile radius of each other. Chicago and Seattle are no where near 750 miles apart, more like 2000 miles apart. THere is no reason AM-1000 in Chicago cant have full nighttime clearchannel permission. Plus the rocky mountains also create a barrier for line of sight radio signals.

ChiSoxRowand
04-11-2005, 10:38 PM
I can get ESPN 1000 here during the day, not at night.

Banix12
04-11-2005, 10:41 PM
I used to be able to get AM 1000 when I lived in evansville indiana but the only way you could get it was by traveling east to west or west to east on the main expressway going through the city and you could only get it at night. For some reason going north or south during the day never worked.

TornLabrum
04-11-2005, 10:44 PM
You see this is thing that doesn't make sense. The site that you listed says clearchannel stations on the same Freq at night cant operate within a 750 mile radius of each other. Chicago and Seattle are no where near 750 miles apart, more like 2000 miles apart. THere is no reason AM-1000 in Chicago cant have full nighttime clearchannel permission. Plus the rocky mountains also create a barrier for line of sight radio signals.

AM radio doesn't broadcast line-of-sight. AM radio signals bounce off the ionosphere. As far as a Chicago station not interfering with a station at a large distance, I can tell you from experience when I was into broadcast DXing as a teenager, that KSL, a 50kW clear channel in Salt Lake City, at the time used to come in in Chicago just as clear as a local station. (That was before the 1160 kHz frequence went 24-hours a day.)

I also believe that that 750 mile distance also pertains only to stations that have directional signals.

Norberto7
04-11-2005, 11:06 PM
WMVP would love to upgrade their nightime signal but by Federal law they can not

They are one of 2 Class A channels on 1000, the other being in Seattle (KOMO)

Very simply WMVP can not beam west after sundown to protect the signal of the station in Seattle.

Clear1000 A,B,D WLUP, Chicago, IL: Class A (I-A)
KOMO, Seattle, WA: Class A (I-B)


AM Station Classes (http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/amclasses.html)

Why AM Radio Stations Must Reduce Power, Change Operations, or Cease Operations at Night (http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/bickel/daytime.html)

I've just about had it with the ionosphere ruining my baseball coverage.

doublem23
04-12-2005, 12:20 AM
Do the Sox have an affiliate in Peoria? You can kind of get AM-1000 down here, but it's impossible down in the river valley and very tough on the South Side of town. Even the best I get it can be pretty crappy when I drive past, oh, say, a tree.

670 comes in clear as a bell. I'd love it.

GiveMeSox
04-12-2005, 01:08 AM
I've just about had it with the ionosphere ruining my baseball coverage.

And now we know why we all say sox fans are really knowledgeable fans.

hawkjt
04-12-2005, 01:24 PM
I believe the change to am1000 contributed to the erosion of the downstate,Iowa and wisconsin sox fan base. I had many friends in Iowa that were sox fans but when they could not longer listen at nite as the did things in the yard ect. they just kind of lost touch. They used to come in for 4-5 games a year. Now some have gone to the brewers since they can listen to their games. This was a huge marketing error on the sox part. Must remedy by going back to the better signal at 670.

Medford Bobby
04-12-2005, 02:07 PM
:(: I believe the old WCFL "sold" off some of their signal patterns during their Christian radio ownership. This allowed other stations broadcasting west of Chicago to increase their day or night pattern without interfering with WCFL.

I do know WLS did the same thing about 1984. When I was living in Nogales,Arizona WLS use to beam in loud and clear. Then one night they were no where to be found. Then I found out they sold off their western night pattern. It's easy money..........:?:

Watch the future of baseball will be on all city FM stations or low powered AM's. Baseball will force you to buy sat radio....though this might decrease the amount stations will pay for broadcasting rights...I'd think ad revenue would be effected too...we might not recognize baseball radio in 2025!:o:

Fenway
04-12-2005, 02:34 PM
AM radio waves and directional patterns are stuff that only true geeks from MIT can fully understand.

Perhaps the most powerful signal in the US belongs to WBZ Boston at 1030 which is directional by choice. ( they do not beam east into the Atlantic Ocean)

This is a station you can hear in the Loop an hour before Chicago sundown as clear as any AM in Chicago.

I will say that the old WCFL came in much better in New England 30 years ago than WMVP does now. My guess is they haven't redone the grounding system at the transmitter in decades.

Moses_Scurry
04-12-2005, 02:35 PM
I can believe it. Down here in Indianapolis, I get the Score fairly well considering it's a Chicago station. AM1000 comes in like crap, but I can still hear it enough to know what is going on. The funny thing is that the ESPN radio (960) down here has such a crappy range that when I leave my house in the morning, the Chicago version of Mike & Mike comes in better than the Indianapolis version. It isn't until I'm close to downtown that I switch over.

I would love for the Sox to be on the Score!!!

tebman
04-12-2005, 03:15 PM
:(: I believe the old WCFL "sold" off some of their signal patterns during their Christian radio ownership. This allowed other stations broadcasting west of Chicago to increase their day or night pattern without interfering with WCFL.

I do know WLS did the same thing about 1984. When I was living in Nogales,Arizona WLS use to beam in loud and clear. Then one night they were no where to be found. Then I found out they sold off their western night pattern. It's easy money..........:?:

Watch the future of baseball will be on all city FM stations or low powered AM's. Baseball will force you to buy sat radio....though this might decrease the amount stations will pay for broadcasting rights...I'd think ad revenue would be effected too...we might not recognize baseball radio in 2025!:o:
And Fenway wrote:I will say that the old WCFL came in much better in New England 30 years ago than WMVP does now. My guess is they haven't redone the grounding system at the transmitter in decades.

These stations are all bound by the laws of physics. WCFL and WLS didn't sell off anything, though their owners might have liked to if they could. The historic "clear channel" stations (not to be confused with the company Clear Channel Communications, Inc.) have had their nighttime signals nibbled away for 30 years. The FCC, bending to enormous political pressure from business people, issued new licenses in the 70s and 80s on many of those formerly clear frequencies. The "750 mile rule" is a more recent defintion the FCC came up with to justify granting licenses on the same frequencies.

Though those newer stations are supposed to operate at lower power and non-interfering patterns at night, some of them "forget" to do so. That, combined with the gradual increase in electrical noise from all of our digital gadgets in the last 30 years, has had the effect of making it tougher to pick up those stations at night.

Sadly, the industry and the FCC regards the AM band as the seedy old neighborhood of technology, and so they don't maintain it like they used to. The techie manufacturers are just fine with that, because then we'll be forced to buy the new improved satellite or digital radios they're developing.

Nellie_Fox
04-12-2005, 03:45 PM
I don't get WMVP up here, ever. I get WSCR pretty much every night, sometimes better than others.

I remember being able to listen to WLS in southern California when I was in the Army there in the late 60's.

CPditka
04-12-2005, 08:07 PM
I dont know the logistics of anything, but on the Chicago Tribune show on Comcast tonight, Mike North kept refering to the White Sox as we & us. It was pointed out by Dan Jiggets and North plead ignorance, but admitted it was all but a done deal.

GiveMeSox
04-12-2005, 08:26 PM
I dont know the logistics of anything, but on the Chicago Tribune show on Comcast tonight, Mike North kept refering to the White Sox as we & us. It was pointed out by Dan Jiggets and North plead ignorance, but admitted it was all but a done deal.

Interesting catch Donald but I think we all knew this was coming for some time. We are just waiting for official announcement. Which probably wont come until near the end of the season anyway.

Fenway
04-12-2005, 08:28 PM
The X factor here is WSCR being owned by Infinity radio. Since Infinity has the rights to large number of MLB teams they can make it a much more attractive buy for national advertisers. ABC/ESPN does not have that clout at the local level

Off the top of my head Infinity currently has these teams
Phillies WPHT
Mets WFAN
Yankees WCBS
Pirates KDKA
Texas KRLD
Tigers WXYT
St Louis KMOX
Twins WCCO
Dodgers KFWB
Oakland KFRC

That is 1/3 of the teams and rumors in Boston have Infinity grabbing the Red Sox in 2006 for a planned all sports station.

Infinity can overbid ABC can't.

GiveMeSox
04-12-2005, 08:31 PM
Just a thought remember about 6 or 7 years ago when whatever AM-670 was then went out of business. Does anyone remember what it was, cuz I found an old bumper sticker from the early 90's that says "Sox on AM-670". What was 670 back then, and when did it become the score? Also, is this why the sox switched to AM-1000 in the late 90's, or was there another reason?

Viva Medias B's
04-12-2005, 08:40 PM
Interesting catch Donald but I think we all knew this was coming for some time. We are just waiting for official announcement. Which probably wont come until near the end of the season anyway.

Oh, it could come very soon...probably sometime this spring. IIRC, the 1995 announcement that the Sox and Bulls would move from WMAQ (now WSCR, of course) to WMVP the following season occurred in the spring.

Also, I think KOA in Denver has the nation's strongest signal with 55,000 watts.

Viva Medias B's
04-12-2005, 08:46 PM
Just a thought remember about 6 or 7 years ago when whatever AM-670 was then went out of business. Does anyone remember what it was, cuz I found an old bumper sticker from the early 90's that says "Sox on AM-670". What was 670 back then, and when did it become the score? Also, is this why the sox switched to AM-1000 in the late 90's, or was there another reason?

WMAQ-AM (670) ceased to exist as we knew it on August 1, 2000. Infinity moved WSCR from the 1160 frequency to 670 and consolidated WMAQ's news operations with WBBM-AM (780). Here is a history (http://www.scottchilders.com/timecapsule/TCWMAQ.htm) from Scott Childers.

It was four years earlier when the Sox and Bulls moved to WMVP-AM (1000). Basically, former WMVP general manager Larry Wert (now the GM at NBC 5) offered a sweetheart deal (many say way too sweet) to Jerry Reinsdorf to lure the Sox and Bulls to WMVP.

Kogs35
04-12-2005, 09:16 PM
The X factor here is WSCR being owned by Infinity radio. Since Infinity has the rights to large number of MLB teams they can make it a much more attractive buy for national advertisers. ABC/ESPN does not have that clout at the local level

Off the top of my head Infinity currently has these teams
Phillies WPHT
Mets WFAN
Yankees WCBS
Pirates KDKA
Texas KRLD
Tigers WXYT
St Louis KMOX
Twins WCCO
Dodgers KFWB
Oakland KFRC

That is 1/3 of the teams and rumors in Boston have Infinity grabbing the Red Sox in 2006 for a planned all sports station.

Infinity can overbid ABC can't.

hey fenway whatever happen to infinity telling stations dont make bids on mlb teams cause of the xm deal?

GiveMeSox
04-12-2005, 09:37 PM
WMAQ-AM (670) ceased to exist as we knew it on August 1, 2000. Infinity moved WSCR from the 1160 frequency to 670 and consolidated WMAQ's news operations with WBBM-AM (780). Here is a history (http://www.scottchilders.com/timecapsule/TCWMAQ.htm) from Scott Childers.

It was four years earlier when the Sox and Bulls moved to WMVP-AM (1000). Basically, former WMVP general manager Larry Wert (now the GM at NBC 5) offered a sweetheart deal (many say way too sweet) to Jerry Reinsdorf to lure the Sox and Bulls to WMVP.

OK i get most of it. One thing is still uncertain. Who owned WMAQ, cbs or nbc. Cuz i know CBS owns WBBM. And it said 1160 and 670 were under the same ownership and then viacom bought out CBS in 1999 prompting the change.

SouthBendSox
04-12-2005, 10:24 PM
I hate the on-air staff at 670... truly I do

But 1000 is too hard to pickup many times...

lastly, of course on the sox website you can find their radio affiliates, but honestly they've got one of the smallest and least faithful "networks" of any major league team... probably 90% of theit listeners are on the flagship

tebman
04-12-2005, 10:35 PM
OK i get most of it. One thing is still uncertain. Who owned WMAQ, cbs or nbc. Cuz i know CBS owns WBBM. And it said 1160 and 670 were under the same ownership and then viacom bought out CBS in 1999 prompting the change.
NBC owned WMAQ until 1988, when it was sold to Westinghouse. Sometime in the 1990s, Infinity took over the CBS radio stations, and in the late 90s bought WMAQ from Westinghouse. Infinity already owned WBBM and didn't want to operate two news stations, so they moved WSCR (which they also owned) from 1160 to 670, killing off WMAQ in 2000, as VMBs explained in an earlier post.

Sounds like a soap opera, eh?


- tebman

Fenway
04-13-2005, 01:46 PM
hey fenway whatever happen to infinity telling stations dont make bids on mlb teams cause of the xm deal?

Problem was solved when XM allowed local commercials to be aired and stations are being paid for providing feed