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View Full Version : *Official* 4/11/05 Crede and Shingo rule postgame thread


Jjav829
04-11-2005, 04:46 PM
Yeah, take that! :bandance:

The Wimperoo
04-11-2005, 04:47 PM
Crede sucks!! He cost us the game!!!

PorkChopExpress
04-11-2005, 04:47 PM
Another Home Opener goes to the White Sox!!!!!

HebrewHammer
04-11-2005, 04:47 PM
3rd perfect day of the year and we're 7 games into the season.

:gulp: :supernana: :gulp:

NSSoxFan
04-11-2005, 04:47 PM
Yeah, take that! :bandance:

I love it!

GO SOX GO!

The Racehorse
04-11-2005, 04:47 PM
It was great to see Freddy get stronger as the game went.

Fake Chet Lemon
04-11-2005, 04:47 PM
To play a night game on the road, and travel on the road again to a day game and win their home opener is ALL GOOD.

gobears1987
04-11-2005, 04:47 PM
Nice win, but I'm still not a Crede fan. I've always been a Shingo fan, but I was worried about him against the Toons. My fears have been put aside now.

Fake Chet Lemon
04-11-2005, 04:48 PM
It was great to see Freddy get stronger as the game went.

Seems to be a pattern. Impressive, he can win without starting a game with his best stuff. What battler!

voodoochile
04-11-2005, 04:48 PM
Great start to this series. Let's keep it going...

5-2 WOOHOO!:D::bandance:

Blueprint1
04-11-2005, 04:48 PM
I ment Marte has not been the same since 2003 sorry.

cheeses_h_rice
04-11-2005, 04:48 PM
7 games into the season, and only 1 bad pitching performance in all of them (Shingo with the 3 zingers).

I'll drink to that.

:gulp:

Rocky Soprano
04-11-2005, 04:48 PM
Good ego boost for Shingo!


Great job by Crede as well and by Garcia.

Go Sox!

Ol' No. 2
04-11-2005, 04:49 PM
Nice. Successive game threads:

Crede Blows

Crede and Shingo rule

Good thing we're not fickle or anything.:tongue:

Unregistered
04-11-2005, 04:49 PM
Yeah, take that! :bandance:Crede had 2 hits that led to no scoring and grounded out in his only chance to drive in a run. I'm no Crede hater, but it's not like he won this game for us.

The Racehorse
04-11-2005, 04:49 PM
To play a night game on the road, and travel on the road again to a day game and win their home opener is ALL GOOD.

Exactly... it helps sooooo much to win the first game of a series [SOX are 3-3 in that dept.].

As James Brown said, "Yeeeeaaaaahhhhhh, I feel good!" :bandance:

Shorty1983
04-11-2005, 04:51 PM
Good call by Oz, giving A.J the day off. We needed that run from Widger.

Freddy's the man!

patbooyah
04-11-2005, 04:51 PM
now that we're on our second trip through the rotation- do you think any of the experts would change their preseason predictions?



(especially since buehrle got stuck with those four runs off of crede's error yesterday:cool: :D: )

Fake Chet Lemon
04-11-2005, 04:51 PM
Podzilla was the story! Why did he get taken out, we need him?

Risk
04-11-2005, 04:51 PM
:)

Risk

Iron Dragon
04-11-2005, 04:51 PM
Didn't Crede single in one of the innings we scored to keep the inning alive?

Jjav829
04-11-2005, 04:51 PM
Crede had 2 hits that led to no scoring and grounded out in his only chance to drive in a run. I'm no Crede hater, but it's not like he won this game for us.

O please. Had he not gotten that second hit Pods wouldn't have driven in the game winning run.

Some of you people will do anything to rip Crede. Where's all the Aaron Rowand hate? Or Pablo Ozuna? That misplay of the popup could have cost us the game! I mean it that was Crede, it no doubt would have been used against him.

BTW, after this game Crede is hitting .208. Dye is hitting .217. Why aren't people on him? Or Rowand and his I-can't-get-ahead-in-the-count .115?

Unregistered
04-11-2005, 04:52 PM
Awesome win.

I'm still trying to figure out if this is a game that we'd lose 1-0 or win 7-1 last year...

infohawk
04-11-2005, 04:52 PM
The funny thing is that if Shingo would have given up a home run to Boone, people would be saying that Ozzie can't manage a bullpen and that he should have left Marte in to get the final out. It just goes to show that, many times, the manager only looks as good as his players.

voodoochile
04-11-2005, 04:52 PM
Crede had 2 hits that led to no scoring and grounded out in his only chance to drive in a run. I'm no Crede hater, but it's not like he won this game for us.

And it's not like he cost us yesterday's game regardless of what the haters want us to believe.

It's a shot... a dig... a crack as it were on the people who seem to think every little miscue is the end of their world...

Iron Dragon
04-11-2005, 04:52 PM
Awesome win.

I'm still trying to figure out if this is a game that we'd lose 1-0 or win 7-1 last year...

Last year? I say loss.

ChicagoHoosier
04-11-2005, 04:52 PM
I LOVE winning games this way!!! Solid pitching, getting a few breaks (all the Indians balls that were hit hard were to right field and knocked down by the wind), and taking advantage and scoring a couple runs later in the game.

AND the bullpen held them down in the 9th. That walk made me nervous, but Marte bounced back nicely against Martinez.

GREAT JOB SOX!!!

voodoochile
04-11-2005, 04:53 PM
The funny thing is that if Shingo would have given up a home run to Boone, people would be saying that Ozzie can't manage a bullpen and that he should have left Marte in to get the final out. It just goes to show that, many times, the manager only looks as good as his players.

Yeah and if wishes were horses then beggers would ride...

nodiggity59
04-11-2005, 04:53 PM
Did Pods get injured?

owensmouth
04-11-2005, 04:53 PM
Crede had 2 hits that led to no scoring and grounded out in his only chance to drive in a run. I'm no Crede hater, but it's not like he won this game for us.His second hit moved the winning run from first to third. Wasn't Crede's fault the runner wasn't in scoring position.

Fake Chet Lemon
04-11-2005, 04:54 PM
The funny thing is that if Shingo would have given up a home run to Boone, people would be saying that Ozzie can't manage a bullpen and that he should have left Marte in to get the final out. It just goes to show that, many times, the manager only looks as good as his players.

I was thinking bring in Dustin for the last out to myself, so GREAT CALL OZZIE!

gobears1987
04-11-2005, 04:55 PM
Why is it that we always have people ripping good players like Shingo, but everyone here defends Crede? I don't get it

PaleHoseGeorge
04-11-2005, 04:55 PM
Mark the date!

April 11 is the first game the Sox didn't win because of a home run we hit, and it's the first game the Sox didn't lose because of a home run allowed.

Hey, Ozzie's Smart Ball works pretty good!
:wink:

DaveIsHere
04-11-2005, 04:55 PM
Why is it that we always have people ripping good players like Shingo, but everyone here defends Crede? I don't get it
We're Sox fans, thats why

Unregistered
04-11-2005, 04:55 PM
O please. Had he not gotten that second hit Pods wouldn't have driven in the game winning run.

Some of you people will do anything to rip Crede. Where's all the Aaron Rowand hate? Or Pablo Ozuna? That misplay of the popup could have cost us the game! I mean it that was Crede, it no doubt would have been used against him.

BTW, after this game Crede is hitting .208. Dye is hitting .217. Why aren't people on him? Or Rowand and his I-can't-get-ahead-in-the-count .115?I want Crede to succeed. His success means White Sox success. You can't fault people for being impatient with him. Most of the other guys we can sit back and say "Well, maybe it's just a slow start," because they EARNED that right.

Rowand batted .310 last year. Crede hit .239. Aaron has earned our patience.

Personally, I'm indifferent to Crede. Don't love him or hate him.

South Sider
04-11-2005, 04:56 PM
Another close win for the Sox.

I'll take it.......

But to be honest.....I'm still very concerned about our hitting.

Still much work to do....esp. reducing the 1st pitch outs......still far too many

But lets enjoy another BIG win


Go Sox

MRKARNO
04-11-2005, 04:56 PM
Crede's single was a big factor in this game. It put the leading run in scoring position with 2 outs. Other than Scott Podsednik, no one contributed more on the offensive side of things today than did Joe Crede. Props to him and here's hoping that he can finally get it together.

voodoochile
04-11-2005, 04:56 PM
Mark the date!

April 11 is the first game the Sox didn't win because of a home run we hit, and it's the first game the Sox didn't lose because of a home run allowed.

Hey, Ozzie's Smart Ball works pretty good!
:wink:

If you're not going to hit any, it's a good idea not to allow any...:D:

SABRSox
04-11-2005, 04:56 PM
I'd put myself in the group of Crede haters, but why are we talking about that when we should be talking about Freddy Garcia's performance today. He was outstanding. That's where the focus should be.

Ol' No. 2
04-11-2005, 04:57 PM
Mark the date!

April 11 is the first game the Sox didn't win because of a home run we hit, and it's the first game the Sox didn't lose because of a home run allowed.

Hey, Ozzie's Smart Ball works pretty good!
:wink:Let's hope it's not the last.

DC Sox Fan
04-11-2005, 04:58 PM
Good thing we're not fickle or anything

I've noticed this too. Maybe we should get a seperate color for "fickle" statements, a'la teal, deep pink, etc.

infohawk
04-11-2005, 04:58 PM
:ozzie (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=5#)

"Fun is winning and winning is fun!"

MRKARNO
04-11-2005, 04:58 PM
Mark the date!

April 11 is the first game the Sox didn't win because of a home run we hit, and it's the first game the Sox didn't lose because of a home run allowed.


Actually the second. There were no home runs by either side on opening day. But let's face it, the two wins have one thing in common: one run victories. The smallest margin of error. That margin of error is going to need to increase if this is to work for the rest of the year.

Unregistered
04-11-2005, 04:58 PM
Other than Scott Podsednik, no one contributed more on the offensive side of things today than did Joe Crede.Unless you count the clutch RBI that Everett drove in, of course.

:everett:
"I get no love."

voodoochile
04-11-2005, 04:59 PM
I'd put myself in the group of Crede haters, but why are we talking about that when we should be talking about Freddy Garcia's performance today. He was outstanding. That's where the focus should be.

Oh, I see... today, the starting pitcher does a great job, so we aren't allowed to talk about the guys who did well in support. But yesterday, the starting pitching sucks raw eggs and it's all about the other guys... :wink:

Freddy was amazing once he got his feet under him. I was hoping he would get to finish. He was getting stronger as the game went along.

TaylorStSox
04-11-2005, 04:59 PM
Good game all around. Thank God for the wind. We'd be looking at a 5 or 6-2 game if the wind hadn't knocked so many balls down.

maurice
04-11-2005, 04:59 PM
Some of you people will do anything to rip Crede. Where's all the Aaron Rowand hate? . . . Crede is hitting .208. . . . Rowand and his I-can't-get-ahead-in-the-count .115?

:?: I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it might have something to do with this:

Crede 2004: .239 / .299 /.418
Crede career: .255 / .302 / .431

Rowand 2004: .310 / .361 / .544
Rowand career: .287 / .338 / .472

Why is it that we always have people ripping good players like Shingo, but everyone here defends Crede? I don't get it
I'd put myself in the group of Crede haters, but why are we talking about that when we should be talking about Freddy Garcia's performance today. He was outstanding. That's where the focus should be.
Two very good questions.

HebrewHammer
04-11-2005, 05:00 PM
Mark the date!

April 11 is the first game the Sox didn't win because of a home run we hit, and it's the first game the Sox didn't lose because of a home run allowed.

Hey, Ozzie's Smart Ball works pretty good!
:wink:

edit: MR KARNO beat me.

infohawk
04-11-2005, 05:00 PM
:moron (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=5#)"So they won another one. Big deal. Their uniforms are still cheap and unfit for a team in a major market."

Ol' No. 2
04-11-2005, 05:00 PM
Oh, I see... today, the starting pitcher does a great job, so we aren't allowed to talk about the guys who did well in support. But yesterday, the starting pitching sucks raw eggs and it's all about the other guys... :wink:
That's how you know you're in the right place.:wink::wink:

Jjav829
04-11-2005, 05:01 PM
:?: I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it might have something to do with this:

Crede 2004: .239 / .299 /.418
Crede career: .255 / .302 / .431

Rowand 2004: .310 / .361 / .544
Rowand career: .287 / .338 / .472

And yet these same people ripping Crede want him replaced with Pablo Ozuna.

Career: .261/.295/.300 and 4 years older. So are we basing it on this years performance or career. If it's career, then there's no argument for Ozuna to even be on the roster.

CubKiller5
04-11-2005, 05:02 PM
On the one hand I'm relieved because Ozzie is showing flexibility when it comes to closing out the 9th. A Marte Shingo combo was a nice move.

On the other hand how long can we continue to squeak by in getting the wins? This is not the NL. It's going to catch up with us. That's 3 1 run wins for us this year. Yes it's a sign of a quality pitching but these games could also swing the other way with a blunder play like last night. That's a very small window of error.

Crede showed a little life at the plate tonight but Dye is still in a funk. The good news is that Thomas is waiting in the wings in June & if Dye is still struggling Everett can take his place. Everett continues to be a major part of the 2005 White Sox & proving his worth. Definitely one of Kenny's best moves.

What I like about Pods is that he can help with bunts, hits, & stolen bases, & scoring. Really the most versatile player the White Sox have had in quite some time & he continues to have an impact. I hope his injury is not serious. There's no one like him to fill that role.

We still need Uribe & Rowand to kick it in gear but I think that's going to happen soon enough. I take my hat off to Ozzie for having faith in the Guch. He's proving to be very solid in the 2 hole. I hope it continues.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-11-2005, 05:02 PM
edit: MR KARNO beat me.

I stand corrected!

Twice in seven games! And we're 2-0 in these contests!

Woo hoo!!!

:thumbsup:

:wink:

infohawk
04-11-2005, 05:03 PM
Another close win for the Sox.

I'll take it.......

But to be honest.....I'm still very concerned about our hitting.

Still much work to do....esp. reducing the 1st pitch outs......still far too many

But lets enjoy another BIG win


Go Sox

We've faced some pretty good pitching. Wait until we get to face some of the iffy guys at the bottom of certain rotations.

Ol' No. 2
04-11-2005, 05:07 PM
Might I remind everybody that these are the two teams that all the "experts" predicted to leave the Sox in the dust this year. Only Sox fans would be bitching about winning by only one run.:cool: Any win is a good win.

A.T. Money
04-11-2005, 05:08 PM
Mark the date!

April 11 is the first game the Sox didn't win because of a home run we hit, and it's the first game the Sox didn't lose because of a home run allowed.

Hey, Ozzie's Smart Ball works pretty good!
:wink:

What about April 4th?

Cowch44
04-11-2005, 05:08 PM
I came home from school right as Carl hit the tying single, and I was really nervous when Victor came up with Hafner on first, I was just thinking, "He's gonna homer, it's over." Lukily I was wrong.:bandance:

Bringing me to my second point. I'm very happy with our pen this year, even though Shingo DID blow a win, but hey, anyone remember what our pen did at the beginning of last year?:rolleyes:

34 Inch Stick
04-11-2005, 05:09 PM
Ozzie said the other day that he thought Cleveland had figured out Shingo and that he wasn't likely to use him in this series. If he feels that way, a judicious use of Shingo is a great way to go.

As for Crede, I am pulling for him to do well. Anyone who thinks a $400,000 a year starter is going anywhere just doesn't know the Sox.

Kogs35
04-11-2005, 05:09 PM
whoo hoo nice win :bandance: :bandance: :gulp: :bandance: :gulp:

FightingBillini
04-11-2005, 05:09 PM
Mark the date!

April 11 is the first game the Sox didn't win because of a home run we hit, and it's the first game the Sox didn't lose because of a home run allowed.

Hey, Ozzie's Smart Ball works pretty good!
:wink:
PHG, just go all out and make your sig the chicken little tag.

maurice
04-11-2005, 05:11 PM
And yet these same people ripping Crede want him replaced with Pablo Ozuna.

I don't know that anybody wants to see Ozuna. More likely they see little reason to believe that Crede will suddenly improve on his .239 / .299 /.418 after three years of sharp decline. Ozuna is the only current alternative.

More importantly, of all the players on the White Sox, Crede probably is the player most deserving of criticism, yet he inexplicably maintains a core of defenders. Ozuna isn't supposed to play well. He's clearly either a AAAA guy or a marginal utility guy. Crede was a multi-MVP player for this organization.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-11-2005, 05:11 PM
PHG, just go all out and make your sig the chicken little tag.

Reading comprehension has never been your strong suit, has it.
:?:

Gee, and you would think they covered the subject at UIUC, too...

:tongue:

kittle42
04-11-2005, 05:13 PM
Reading comprehension has never been your strong suit, has it.
:?:

Gee, and you would think they covered the subject at UIUC, too...

:tongue:

Oh, come on - too much time spent on mastering the ILL - INI spelling.

HomeFish
04-11-2005, 05:14 PM
I don't know that anybody wants to see Ozuna. More likely they see little reason to believe that Crede will sudddenly improve on his .239 / .299 /.418 after three years of sharp decline.


I want to see Ozuna. This guy has, so far, been Ozzieball incarnate. More than anyone else, he has been playing the game the right way.

Small sample size, you say? Sure; it is much, much, much smalller than Crede's proven track record of failure.

If Ozuna ends up cooling down, I'm fine with that. I mean, how much worse than Crede could it gt?

Unregistered
04-11-2005, 05:15 PM
I don't know that anybody wants to see Ozuna. More likely they see little reason to believe that Crede will sudddenly improve on his .239 / .299 /.418 after three years of sharp decline.

More importantly, off all the players on the White Sox, Crede probably is the player most deserving of criticism, yet he inexplicably maintains a core of defenders.Not to mention the fact that Ozuna had a ridiculous spring, hitting .527 and seemingly everything in sight. Crede hit .270 against the same pitchers. That loosely translates into NOTHING come April, but it gives a pretty good impression of Ozuna. It's not like the guy did nothing for people to think he may succeed.

TaylorStSox
04-11-2005, 05:16 PM
I don't know that anybody wants to see Ozuna. More likely they see little reason to believe that Crede will sudddenly improve on his .239 / .299 /.418 after three years of sharp decline.

More importantly, off all the players on the White Sox, Crede probably is the player most deserving of criticism, yet he inexplicably maintains a core of defenders.


He's going to give you .250/20/70 out of the 8th hole with a solid glove. That's the reason. If somebody can come up with a better solution, I'm all ears. Until then, I don't want to hear any bitching that our 8th hitter is costing us games. It's a joke.

Randa's a good player. The major difference is about .030 in .BA. They're very comparable players IMO.

I think the "Crede defenders" are sick of the witch hunts that are prevelant on the board. Konerko, Rowand, Crede, LTP, Harris have all had times when they're criticized constantly. It gets old. You don't like the guy. Fine! Move on and try to come with a solution. After all, we're all armchair GM's.

D. TODD
04-11-2005, 05:16 PM
Any reason given for Timo taking Pods place in the 8th?

Ol' No. 2
04-11-2005, 05:17 PM
And yet these same people ripping Crede want him replaced with Pablo Ozuna.

Career: .261/.295/.300 and 4 years older. So are we basing it on this years performance or career. If it's career, then there's no argument for Ozuna to even be on the roster.Oh, well...if you're going to bring LOGIC into the discussion...:rolleyes:

TaylorStSox
04-11-2005, 05:18 PM
Ozuna's not a solution to anything. The same people that want to see Ozuna probably still rave over Julio Ramirez.

FightingBillini
04-11-2005, 05:18 PM
Reading has never been your strong suit, has it.
:?:

Gee, and you would think they covered the subject at UIUC, too...

:tongue:
I know what you said, but you have set in your mind that this team wont win, and if it does it is in spite of Ozzie. If the Sox win the world series in 7 games you will say "they could have won it in 4 if now for Guillen blowing those calls." You can trash Guillen all you want (and I know you didn't do it in THIS specific thread, but you have done it before), and we can argue about hitting philosophy, but Ozzie has brought this team together. There is unity, and they seem to be a TEAM, which we havent seen here in quite some time. Ozzie created the chemistry, and he deserves credit for that.

And another thing, I went to UIC for two years, and then transfered because I wanted a degree that was worth more than toilet paper. C'mon, take some more shots at mah edumacation!:cool:

HomeFish
04-11-2005, 05:18 PM
He's going to give you .250/20/70 out of the 8th hole with a solid glove. That's the reason. If somebody can come up with a better solution, I'm all ears. Until then, I don't want to hear any bitching that our 8th hitter is costing us games. It's a joke.

Randa's a good player. The major difference is about .030 in .BA. They're very comparable players IMO.

I think the "Crede defenders" are sick of the witch hunts that are prevelant on the board. Konerko, Rowand, Crede, LTP, Harris have all had times when they're criticized constantly. It gets old. You don't like the guy. Fine! Move on and try to come with a solution. After all, we're all armchair GM's.

If we keep Crede, we know what we're going to get. Even you are honest about it, although .250 is a bit generous.

If we play Ozuna, there is a chance that we will get more, oh so much more. If not, well, Crede is still there. What do we have to lose by launching the Ozuna experiment?

JB98
04-11-2005, 05:19 PM
He's going to give you .250/20/70 out of the 8th hole with a solid glove. That's the reason. If somebody can come up with a better solution, I'm all ears. Until then, I don't want to hear any bitching that our 8th hitter is costing us games. It's a joke.

Randa's a good player. The major difference is about .030 in .BA. They're very comparable players IMO.

I think the "Crede defenders" are sick of the witch hunts that are prevelant on the board. Konerko, Rowand, Crede, LTP, Harris have all had times when they're criticized constantly. It gets old. You don't like the guy. Fine! Move on and try to come with a solution. After all, we're all armchair GM's.

You forgot about Garland. If it had been Jon who had given up the 3-run bomb to Hunter last night, you would have seen a minimum of 200 posts regarding Garland's supposed mental weakness.

JB98
04-11-2005, 05:21 PM
If we keep Crede, we know what we're going to get. Even you are honest about it, although .250 is a bit generous.

If we play Ozuna, there is a chance that we will get more, oh so much more. If not, well, Crede is still there. What do we have to lose by launching the Ozuna experiment?

I guarantee you Ozuna would not give us .240/20/70.

It isn't like Ozuna is a defensive wizard either. He crashed into Pods today, causing a routine pop fly to drop. If Crede does that, a WSI lynch mob would be immediately dispatched to Cleveland.

TaylorStSox
04-11-2005, 05:23 PM
If we keep Crede, we know what we're going to get. Even you are honest about it, although .250 is a bit generous.

If we play Ozuna, there is a chance that we will get more, oh so much more. If not, well, Crede is still there. What do we have to lose by launching the Ozuna experiment?

.250's generous for a career .255 hitter? :rolleyes:

Mohoney
04-11-2005, 05:24 PM
BTW, after this game Crede is hitting .208. Dye is hitting .217. Why aren't people on him? Or Rowand and his I-can't-get-ahead-in-the-count .115?

Dye did hit a HUGE home run in the game last Wednesday, though.

elrod
04-11-2005, 05:25 PM
Just a great win against a stellar pitcher. Both runs were manufactured with smarts and speed. Pods' steal against Millwood was ridiculous. Without that speed he does not get into scoring position to score. There are games when small ball is not worth it - like when the other team is hitting a bunch of big home runs. But when the wind is knocking EVERYTHING down and the game is really tight then small ball makes perfect sense.

D. TODD
04-11-2005, 05:25 PM
Ozuna is a utility man and nothing more. Crede still has much more potential. I do think Ozuna is another example of a nice quiet pick-up by KW though. I recall many people calling for a trade to get a utility guy, looks like no trade was needed.

Soxzilla
04-11-2005, 05:28 PM
Great game by Garcia, as well as Average Joe. I'll take my CROW with a side sampling of cottage cheese (Might as well get some dairy in with it).

I DO agree with Homefish though. If Crede continues to struggle like he did this opening week, I say we see what Ozuna can do even though he had a rough game today (I still don't agree with that pop-up being HIS fault, as opposed to it being scott's fault or THEIR fault).

But hopefully Crede continues to swing the bat well. I may not like the guy, I may not hate the guy, but I do want him to do well.

Anyways, 5-2. First place. Best record in the LEAGUE!

FREDDY GARCIA FOR EL PRESIDENTE!

PicktoCLick72
04-11-2005, 05:29 PM
Can we set up a room solely for posting on Joe Crede. I think it would help a alot.

Soxzilla
04-11-2005, 05:30 PM
.250's generous for a career .255 hitter? :rolleyes:

It is when Crede has been on the decline the past couple years.

Ozuna can give you a good speedy nine hole hitter if Pods needs to take an extended seat on the bench once Big Frank returns.

maurice
04-11-2005, 05:30 PM
It's true that Konerko, Rowand, Crede, LTP, Harris, and Garland all have taken lots of criticism here. I've defended Rowand, Harris, and Garland extensively. I've criticized Konerko, LTP, and Crede when they blew and praised them when they did well. Crede and LTP currently deserve the criticism they receive, because nether player has performed up to reasonable expectations in a couple of years.

It's one thing to say that the criticism is repeated too much and = beating a dead horse. That may be true. It's quite another thing to say that the criticism is unwarranted. A highly touted MLB veteran who can't do better than an AVE under .240 and an OBP under .300 over an entire season deserves criticism.

Mohoney
04-11-2005, 05:31 PM
He's going to give you .250/20/70 out of the 8th hole with a solid glove.

I don't share your optimism on .250 being guaranteed. There is a possibility that he could be right around where Valentin was last year when you consider the fact that he's declined every year.

Fake Chet Lemon
04-11-2005, 05:37 PM
On the other hand how long can we continue to squeak by in getting the wins? This is not the NL. It's going to catch up with us. That's 3 1 run wins for us this year. Yes it's a sign of a quality pitching but these games could also swing the other way with a blunder play like last night. That's a very small window of error.
.

Are you serious? This is the kind of ball we are built to play. Today's game was text-book Ozzie-ball.

SoxSpeed22
04-11-2005, 05:41 PM
Are you serious? This is the kind of ball we are built to play. Today's game was text-book Ozzie-ball.There are no giant "Crede sucks" posts today. The best part about this win is that Ozzie waited until the 9th inning to go bullpen berserk. As long as the starting pitching keeps up, this can be a good team.:supernana:

ChiSoxRowand
04-11-2005, 05:45 PM
Great game by Freddy today. I also like how Ozzie handled the bullpen. He said that he would use Shingo different against Cleveland, and I didn't want to see him face Hafner and Martinez.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-11-2005, 05:46 PM
I know what you said, but you have set in your mind that this team wont win, and if it does it is in spite of Ozzie. If the Sox win the world series in 7 games you will say "they could have won it in 4 if now for Guillen blowing those calls." You can trash Guillen all you want (and I know you didn't do it in THIS specific thread, but you have done it before), and we can argue about hitting philosophy, but Ozzie has brought this team together. There is unity, and they seem to be a TEAM, which we havent seen here in quite some time. Ozzie created the chemistry, and he deserves credit for that.

"Billish" equals "Jibberish" as this post yet again proves.

You don't even have a clue about what I've already stated, forget about things *you think* I would say in the future. Otherwise you're spot-on, Bill.

:cool:

voodoochile
04-11-2005, 05:46 PM
Are you serious? This is the kind of ball we are built to play. Today's game was text-book Ozzie-ball.

Lights out pitching and no offense? :dunno:

JB98
04-11-2005, 05:46 PM
Are you serious? This is the kind of ball we are built to play. Today's game was text-book Ozzie-ball.

Well, I am concerned about the offense. It's hard to win 1-0 and 2-1 consistently in the AL. That may be what we need to do until Frank gets back, however. Of course, our DH is pretty much carrying our lineup right now, so I can't really blame only 27 runs in seven games on the absence of Frank.

Eventually, Rowand will pick it up, and that will make a big difference. At least I hope so.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-11-2005, 05:48 PM
Lights out pitching and no offense? :dunno:

Somebody stated during the game that Konerko looks confused at the plate, and the first thing I think is, "How can you tell?"

:wink:

mealfred13
04-11-2005, 05:49 PM
You forgot about Garland. If it had been Jon who had given up the 3-run bomb to Hunter last night, you would have seen a minimum of 200 posts regarding Garland's supposed mental weakness.

Hahah, I said the exact same thing yesterday, and isn't it sad but true...

balke
04-11-2005, 05:53 PM
WOW I HATE ESPN

They don't even know how to say "White SOx". This was a good game, Millwood and Garcia had great pitching. The highlights were really really lame. "And scott podsednik hits a single.... White Sox upset Cleveland.... 2.... to 1"

***?

Anyways...



Ozuna- gets a lot of wood on the ball. I like him a lot right now, mostly as utility. He can help us wear down a lot of pitchers. He's not quite Uribe in the field, and not the power threat Uribe is at bat. He is a great "quiet pick-up" by KW. Good call whoever said that.

Crede- has hit the ball forward a lot. He's still K-ing, but I am happy with this Joe Crede right now. He didn't score the run earlier, but he moved the runners along w/ 2 out.

Jose Contreras- Please be the same guy you were last week, or better. That would make me do sommersaults for the Sox.

Jurr
04-11-2005, 05:56 PM
Well, I am concerned about the offense. It's hard to win 1-0 and 2-1 consistently in the AL. That may be what we need to do until Frank gets back, however. Of course, our DH is pretty much carrying our lineup right now, so I can't really blame only 27 runs in seven games on the absence of Frank.

Eventually, Rowand will pick it up, and that will make a big difference. At least I hope so.
Am I wrong, or did we not win 5-1 and 8-5 a couple of games ago???? Ok...just checking. Sometimes you need to win 2-1. Be happy that we can. Jeez.

SouthSideSid
04-11-2005, 05:59 PM
It seven good games into the season.

If you use that short a time frame to bag on Crede, why don't we use
the shorter last two games time frame and say "WOOHOO Crede is ripping
at a .500 clip" "He's the man"

Give Crede and everyone else a little more time before you decide they need
to visit Charlotte.

Randar68
04-11-2005, 06:02 PM
Crede is hitting .208, meanwhile Dye is hitting .217 and Rowand is hitting .115...

It's early, folks. Settle down. Sheeesh.

MRKARNO
04-11-2005, 06:06 PM
Crede is hitting .208, meanwhile Dye is hitting .217 and Rowand is hitting .115...

It's early, folks. Settle down. Sheeesh.

Seriously.

JD Drew is hitting .074, Manny is hitting .214, Teixeira is hitting .156, Melvin Mora is htting .115 and so forth.

Conversely, Wily Taveres is hitting .429, Damian Miller is hitting .471 and Pat Burrell is hitting .480.

This is simply how the season starts out and if you're not used to it, get used to it. The small sample size of a week or so makes is so that the performance of the one week that has been played is magified. Jeter started the year last year 0 for thirty something and still hit in the .292 with 23 home runs.

mealfred13
04-11-2005, 06:13 PM
Althought Freddy pitched his ass off today, not to rain on the parade, but is anyone else worried about the 4 or 5 deep drives that would have been homeruns on any other day? So far, from what I've seen of our pitchers, Freddy is the only one I'm worried about giving up the long ball one too many times this season. He seems great up there except for the occasional pitch that gets hit really hard.

jabrch
04-11-2005, 06:15 PM
It seven good games into the season.

If you use that short a time frame to bag on Crede, why don't we use
the shorter last two games time frame and say "WOOHOO Crede is ripping
at a .500 clip" "He's the man"

Give Crede and everyone else a little more time before you decide they need
to visit Charlotte.

:tealtutor:
This is TEAL - It means SARCASM

This is Medium turquoise - It means you don't know what teal is.

gogosoxtimebaby
04-11-2005, 06:17 PM
well is podsednik ok?

gogosoxtimebaby
04-11-2005, 06:18 PM
a great start to a great season!!!!!!

CubKiller5
04-11-2005, 06:18 PM
I'm not a Crede basher but you did ask for solutions so I thought I would volunteer one: Mike Lowell of the Florida Marlins.

I don't know what their asking price would be but we have enough jewels to dangle in front of them to probably wet their appetite. They don't need him as much any more now that they have Delgado. Maybe they'd be interested.

To effectively play ozzie-ball in the AL you need to have the best bullpen.
Twins have it, Oakland had it at one time, but we don't. We have a good one but certainly not one capable of securing a 1 run lead day in & day out.

I wouldn't worry about Dye. When Thomas comes back he's the favorite to be benched in place of Everett. The problem with Joe is we don't have that reasonable replacement yet.

Who's HOT: Our rotation, Pods, Guch, Carl, Koney, AJ
Who's MILD: Our bullpen
Who's COLD: Dye, Rowand, Uribe, Crede

Don't despair. They'll start warming up soon enough.

jabrch
04-11-2005, 06:22 PM
Freddy pitches an 8 inning, 4 hitter and people are bitching about Joe Crede...

Way to go Freddy.

Today's Good News
Another awesome start
Pods goes 2-4 and brings his average up to .280
Crede has 2 hits
We steal 2 bases
Marte and Shingo pitch a good 9th
AND THE SOX WIN


Today's Bad News
JR is cheap
KW is stupid
We need Magglio
I was stuck in my office in Chicago instead of a box seat at the Jake
Smallball sucks
Crede is terrible
Miguel Olivo is a 5 tool catcher who we gave away
We don't hit HRs
Our payroll is too small
The upper deck is too steep
I bought a ticket for the upper deck and I can't go to the lower deck
I miss Carlos Lee
Jeremy Reed is awesome
etc. etc. etc.

Jurr
04-11-2005, 06:25 PM
Freddy pitches an 8 inning, 4 hitter and people are bitching about Joe Crede...

Way to go Freddy.

Today's Good News
Another awesome start
Pods goes 2-4 and brings his average up to .280
Crede has 2 hits
We steal 2 bases
Marte and Shingo pitch a good 9th
AND THE SOX WIN


Today's Bad News
JR is cheap
KW is stupid
We need Magglio
I was stuck in my office in Chicago instead of a box seat at the Jake
Smallball sucks
Crede is terrible
Miguel Olivo is a 5 tool catcher who we gave away
We don't hit HRs
Our payroll is too small
The upper deck is too steep
I bought a ticket for the upper deck and I can't go to the lower deck
I miss Carlos Lee
Jeremy Reed is awesome
etc. etc. etc.
I am absolutely in love with this post.

CWSGuy406
04-11-2005, 06:29 PM
Althought Freddy pitched his ass off today, not to rain on the parade, but is anyone else worried about the 4 or 5 deep drives that would have been homeruns on any other day? So far, from what I've seen of our pitchers, Freddy is the only one I'm worried about giving up the long ball one too many times this season. He seems great up there except for the occasional pitch that gets hit really hard.

I agree, any other days those are out of the park, easy.

But you know what, maybe Freddy was playing to the conditions, so we don't know. We deserve a little luck to bounce our way, so it was a nice day to throw lots and lots of fly balls. And nice job by the OF'ers to stay under 'em and haul 'em in.

Go get 'em Wednesday, Jose!

Jjav829
04-11-2005, 06:31 PM
Two very good questions.

To answer this, my post was a jab at the Crede bashing from yesterday. No Crede didn't win us this game. Just the same, Crede didn't lose us yesterday's game. We had a huge thread ripping Crede for a misplay that some people determined was the sole reason Mark Buehrle pitched more like Jon Garland than like Mark Buehrle. So I figured Joe Crede deserves a thread of praise today for his 2 hits, one of which kept alive the inning that we scored the go-ahead run. My intent wasn't to take away from a fabulous outing by Freddy.

I don't consider myself a die-hard Crede supporter. I'd be the first to say that if we can upgrade at 3B, we should do it. Then again, I feel that way about every position. I'm as frustrated as anyone else watching Crede. I want him to succeed, but he looks awful up there at times. Do I think there is still some hope? Yes. Would I give up on him if an opportunity to significantly upgrade came along? Sure. Is Pablo Ozuna that opportunity? Absolutely not.

jabrch
04-11-2005, 06:37 PM
Althought Freddy pitched his ass off today, not to rain on the parade, but is anyone else worried about the 4 or 5 deep drives that would have been homeruns on any other day?

Nope - Cuz it wasn't any other day - it was today. Tommorrow will be any other day - so tomorrow we can worry about how the balls carry tomorrow. But for today, I can't worry myself with how the balls might have carried had today actually been tomorrow - or yesterday. Yesterday, on the other hand, I was very worried about how balls might carry today - not for Buehrle's sake - but for Freddy. Today, I am worried about how balls will carry tomorrow for Jose. I was worried early today how balls would carry today for Freddy. But from my ignorant point of view it seems completely pointless to worry about how balls that were hit between 2:05 and 4:44 (CDT) would have traveled at any other point in time.

Freddy will have his bad outings. So will Mark. So will the Cubans and so will JG. But after a 8 inning 4 hitter, worrying about how bad an outing Garcia would have had if the wind was going a different direction is kinda silly. You could easily make the other arguement. Imagine how great our bats would have been any other day?

mealfred13
04-11-2005, 06:39 PM
I agree, any other days those are out of the park, easy.

But you know what, maybe Freddy was playing to the conditions, so we don't know. We deserve a little luck to bounce our way, so it was a nice day to throw lots and lots of fly balls. And nice job by the OF'ers to stay under 'em and haul 'em in.

Go get 'em Wednesday, Jose!

Well in the post game, Widger told Melton and Mora that they new the wind was blowing in from right so Garcia was throwing alot of fastballs to play to conditions since the ball wasn't going out. But he also said the wind was helpful because it knocked down a few of the balls that would be out normally.

Now if they were just letting the hitters lay into fastballs the other way, knowing they'd stay in, I guess that's ok. But from what I've seen from Freddy so far, he tends to throw a ball or 2 every game which gets hit hard, but luckily he's been helped out by conditions so far. I'm just worried he'll give up a lot of homeruns, as was the worry when he moved over from Seattle.

mealfred13
04-11-2005, 06:44 PM
Nope - Cuz it wasn't any other day - it was today. Tommorrow will be any other day - so tomorrow we can worry about how the balls carry tomorrow. But for today, I can't worry myself with how the balls might have carried had today actually been tomorrow - or yesterday. Yesterday, on the other hand, I was very worried about how balls might carry today - not for Buehrle's sake - but for Freddy. Today, I am worried about how balls will carry tomorrow for Jose. I was worried early today how balls would carry today for Freddy. But from my ignorant point of view it seems completely pointless to worry about how balls that were hit between 2:05 and 4:44 (CDT) would have traveled at any other point in time.

Freddy will have his bad outings. So will Mark. So will the Cubans and so will JG. But after a 8 inning 4 hitter, worrying about how bad an outing Garcia would have had if the wind was going a different direction is kinda silly. You could easily make the other arguement. Imagine how great our bats would have been any other day?

I would tend to agree with you, and I rarely consider the "what if" situations, but since last year I've seen Freddy give up alot of hard-hit balls to the track or out of the park. I suppose you can argue that on most days he'll be fine unless he happens to pitch in a game where the wind is blowing out in which case he'll have one of his "bad outings", but I'd feel alot better if he wasn't giving up so many hard drives to the wall on a day when the weather was on his side, because it won't be every day.

jabrch
04-11-2005, 06:48 PM
Fred - he is a flyball pitcher. That's going to happen. That's the price you pay with Freddy. He won't suddenly become a groundball pitcher - that's not his style. When he is on, he will be VERY hard to hit. When the wind is blowing in, he will give hitters nightmares. If the Jake was turned on its axis, and there was a 26mph wind blowing straight out, it would have been a tough day for Freddy - and for Milwood as well. Hopefully it would be as hard on Milwood (actually, harder) than on Freddy.

But I just won't worry about what the playing conditions could have been. I don't think you should either. There are loads of other things we can worry about and many better days to worry about them than today.

Frater Perdurabo
04-11-2005, 06:50 PM
for a great win, if no one else will...
:tomatoaward

jabrch
04-11-2005, 06:51 PM
I'm not a Crede basher but you did ask for solutions so I thought I would volunteer one: Mike Lowell of the Florida Marlins.

I don't know what their asking price would be but we have enough jewels to dangle in front of them to probably wet their appetite. They don't need him as much any more now that they have Delgado. Maybe they'd be interested.


They are a contender for the NL East. Lowell just signed an extension recently. I'd highly doubt he is available.

hawkjt
04-11-2005, 06:57 PM
As widger indicated Freddy threw very few curves and sliders due to conditions. Good move. The only way you give up many runs today was walking guys.

Crede is going to have a big year. He looks stronger physically. Mark my words ;Joe crede is going to have a 30 homer,.280 with 90 rbis year along with his stellar defense. Keep your chin up joe.

Pods has been everything we could hope for. Carl is solid and clutch. Now if we could ever face a average pitcher we might score 6 runs.

The twins and indians have used off days to get santana and westbrook up against the sox. Who are there 4th and 5th starters? They have not used them yet. Not looking forward to Westbrook on thurs. So far it will be Lee twice,Westbrook twice,Millwood twice, Radke,Santana and Lohse. Nine good pitchers in the first two weeks.

BigEdWalsh
04-11-2005, 07:02 PM
As widger indicated Freddy threw very few curves and sliders due to conditions. Good move. The only way you give up many runs today was walking guys.

Crede is going to have a big year. He looks stronger physically. Mark my words ;Joe crede is going to have a 30 homer,.280 with 90 rbis year along with his stellar defense. Keep your chin up joe.

Pods has been everything we could hope for. Carl is solid and clutch. Now if we could ever face a average pitcher we might score 6 runs.

The twins and indians have used off days to get santana and westbrook up against the sox. Who are there 4th and 5th starters? They have not used them yet. Not looking forward to Westbrook on thurs. So far it will be Lee twice,Westbrook twice,Millwood twice, Radke,Santana and Lohse. Nine good pitchers in the first two weeks.

EVERY year some people say Crede will be fine, he'll tear it up eventually, he'll have a monster second half, etc., etc. I just hope finally you Crede supporters will be right. That'd be awesome! I keep hoping for the same thing, but I'm not so optimstic when it comes to Crede.

batmanZoSo
04-11-2005, 07:19 PM
Lights out pitching and no offense? :dunno:

Well look who we faced. Thrice we've faced top quality pitchers and that about covers all the times in which we've had little or no offense to speak of. And we're 2-1 in those games, so what the hey.

voodoochile
04-11-2005, 07:27 PM
Well look who we faced. Thrice we've faced top quality pitchers and that about covers all the times in which we've had little or no offense to speak of. And we're 2-1 in those games, so what the hey.

I am not complaining, I just don't think this game defines Ozzieball. Ozzieball should score 4 or so runs with smallball ideally. Two runs isn't going to cut it, period.

delben91
04-11-2005, 07:27 PM
Just one more Sox fan's opinion on today's game, which I only "saw" on gamecast.

Freddy was awesome, conditions or otherwise, the end results were very, very effective.

Crede has been laying out ropes for several days now, looks like they're starting to fall. Maybe he'll have a monster year, maybe he won't, maybe he'll be good enough, maybe they'll need to find someone else, but today he was valuable and from the looks of it he'll be around for a bit, so I say keep it up Joe.

Not much offense today, but just enough, and the bottom line is a W. I can't ask for much more than that. Let's do it again Wednesday Sox, Jose, 2nd verse, same as the first.

TheBull19
04-11-2005, 07:50 PM
Crede is hitting .208, meanwhile Dye is hitting .217 and Rowand is hitting .115...

It's early, folks. Settle down. Sheeesh.

Yeah, that only pulls his average over the last 12 months and 10 days down to about .237 - add in his dead last amoungst qualifiers .299 OBP last year and it looks like a black hole in the lineup if ever there was one - and he'd have to hit a heck of a lot more than 20 homers to make up for that. I don't see Ozuna as much of an alternative as an everyday player, though, so I AM praying that Crede gets it together, or KW can come with some more "under the radar" magic by around June.

jabrch
04-11-2005, 07:52 PM
I am not complaining, I just don't think this game defines Ozzieball. Ozzieball should score 4 or so runs with smallball ideally. Two runs isn't going to cut it, period.

Most days it wont....but like I said before - today wasn't most days. Today, 2 runs did cut it. Wednesday - who knows? But for today, 2 runs was plenty more than enough....by at least 1 run.

TheBull19
04-11-2005, 07:53 PM
I'm not a Crede basher but you did ask for solutions so I thought I would volunteer one: Mike Lowell of the Florida Marlins.

I don't know what their asking price would be but we have enough jewels to dangle in front of them to probably wet their appetite. They don't need him as much any more now that they have Delgado. Maybe they'd be interested.



Yeah, right

batmanZoSo
04-11-2005, 07:54 PM
I am not complaining, I just don't think this game defines Ozzieball. Ozzieball should score 4 or so runs with smallball ideally. Two runs isn't going to cut it, period.

And I wasn't really countering you, I just like that we can win these pitcher's duels. Even though we lost one yesterday, we're still looking a lot better than we used to at it. I was only able to listen to parts on the radio, but I liked stringing two or three two out hits to get the eventual winning run late in the game. To me that falls under the manufactured run category.

You're right that two runs a game isn't Ozzieball, but against a tough pitcher that's about right. KW backed the lineup with a much better pitching staff that will actually allow us to scuffle against good pitching and still win as long as we can muster a few runs.

Once you get past the first few series or so, you start to get pitching mismatches and such--no longer ace vs. ace--where you'll see some 8-10 run games from our side. With all the good pitching matchups, I'd guess that the first week of the baseball season probably sees fewer runs than the rest of the year all around.

Jjav829
04-11-2005, 08:00 PM
I'm not a Crede basher but you did ask for solutions so I thought I would volunteer one: Mike Lowell of the Florida Marlins.

I don't know what their asking price would be but we have enough jewels to dangle in front of them to probably wet their appetite. They don't need him as much any more now that they have Delgado. Maybe they'd be interested.


What makes you think the Marlins would trade him? They just guaranteed the final 3 years of his contract this past offseason so that they could keep him in Florida through 2007. They're looking at not only competing for the NL East, but also for a World Series Championship. And you think they're going to trade a guy who is not only a key member of those hopes on offense and defense, but also their team leader?

This is what I mean. We can throw out all these names, but none of them are real.

Lip Man 1
04-11-2005, 08:11 PM
Lowell just signed a new deal last year for mucho money for mucho years. Would the Sox be ready to take that on? Plus it's not like the Marlins are a garbage team.

After the owner promised to keep everyone after the 2002 title then gutted the club, seeing them fall to 3rd place in the East last year, he went out and spent a lot of money this off season. (Perhaps in an effort to secure the new stadium deal...) They should be right in the race all year.

Now a few comments about today:

1. It's early but the more the Sox win these type of 'smart'-ball games the more their confidence is going to grow with this style. Winnings begats winning.

2. If God willing they make the playoffs where pitching is nut tough, these are the type of games they are going to have to play to do anything.

3. The Sox are 3-0 in one run games, remember last year they got off to that amazing 11-1 start!

4. Are the Cleveland pitchers that damn good? They seem to kill the Sox, yet Detroit clubbed a lot of runs home over the weekend. What gives?

On to Wednesday...

Lip

Tragg
04-11-2005, 08:16 PM
He's going to give you .250/20/70 out of the 8th hole with a solid glove. That's the reason. If somebody can come up with a better solution, I'm all ears. Until then, I don't want to hear any bitching that our 8th hitter is costing us games. It's a joke.

Randa's a good player. The major difference is about .030 in .BA. They're very comparable players IMO.


Amen, amen on the first part.

As for Randa, he was also coming off of a major injury, and has had 5-10 extra years to prove what a mediocre player he is. Crede could still improve.

FarWestChicago
04-11-2005, 08:17 PM
Rough day for the "Garcia blows/is mediocre" crowd. :yup:

batmanZoSo
04-11-2005, 08:19 PM
What makes you think the Marlins would trade him? They just guaranteed the final 3 years of his contract this past offseason so that they could keep him in Florida through 2007. They're looking at not only competing for the NL East, but also for a World Series Championship. And you think they're going to trade a guy who is not only a key member of those hopes on offense and defense, but also their team leader?

This is what I mean. We can throw out all these names, but none of them are real.

We don't even need somebody that good, just someone who can hit major league pitching consistently. The way the rest of our team is built, having a big stud at third isn't a big priority. It's not like Crede's killing us in the 6 hole, he's batting 8th and really should be 9th because Uribe is a much better hitter.

starboy0
04-11-2005, 08:25 PM
Good call by Oz, giving A.J the day off. We needed that run from Widger...

I really like how Ozzie's using everybody.

delben91
04-11-2005, 08:28 PM
4. Are the Cleveland pitchers that damn good? They seem to kill the Sox, yet Detroit clubbed a lot of runs home over the weekend. What gives?

On to Wednesday...

Lip

Detroit faced Westbrook, so I can't argue that. But I don't think they faced Millwood. Wouldn't explain the Sox offense against Westbrook, but until the Tigers face Millwood, we don't know that they'd club him.

Flight #24
04-11-2005, 08:36 PM
Rough day for the "Garcia blows/is mediocre" crowd. :yup:

C'mon FWC, you know very well that an 8IP-4H-2BB-1ER-4K line against a good hitting club in a hitters park.....well, that's the stuff of a solid #3 pitcher!:rolleyes:

cburns
04-11-2005, 09:07 PM
Sabathia isn't back yet, so we can't forget about him.

JB98
04-11-2005, 09:18 PM
Am I wrong, or did we not win 5-1 and 8-5 a couple of games ago???? Ok...just checking. Sometimes you need to win 2-1. Be happy that we can. Jeez.

We've played seven games, and only once have we scored more than five runs in a game. If that trend continues, we'll finish third.

MRKARNO
04-11-2005, 09:22 PM
Rough day for the "Garcia blows/is mediocre" crowd. :yup:

I'm definitely not in that crowd, but I have to admit that I was a little skeptical of his ability to pitch well this season coming in. I'm still worried about a few things though:

-He'll sometimes get ahead 0-2 and just waste two pitches. He'll throw two in a row that even Jose Valentin at his worst wouldnt swing at. Then he's lost his advantage. He goes 0-2 to 3-2 far too often and this leads to far too many walks yielded than he should.
-Out of this second point comes the fact that he's difficult to watch on the day after watching Buehrle due to his inefficiency. 18-20 pitches an inning for a few in a row is difficult for me to watch, but at least he gets out of the trouble more often than not.
-A few too many deep flies that just didnt have enough for my liking

But still I have to say that I've been extremely impressed with his two outings so far and if he can pitch very well for the whole year, that the White Sox chances have improved by a ton.

jabrch
04-11-2005, 09:25 PM
We've played seven games, and only once have we scored more than five runs in a game. If that trend continues, we'll finish third.

No - if this trend continues we will not only finish first, but we will do so by a record margin.

Ol' No. 2
04-11-2005, 09:28 PM
Althought Freddy pitched his ass off today, not to rain on the parade, but is anyone else worried about the 4 or 5 deep drives that would have been homeruns on any other day? So far, from what I've seen of our pitchers, Freddy is the only one I'm worried about giving up the long ball one too many times this season. He seems great up there except for the occasional pitch that gets hit really hard.Did it occur to you that some of the Sox long fly balls would have gone out, too?

fusillirob1983
04-11-2005, 09:32 PM
I think there's been a lot of overreaction to some guys on the team not hitting that well just yet. It's early in the season, so some of them might all of a sudden go on a tear.

My fantasy team is awful right now (21 points behind second to last in a Yahoo league), and the difference is a bunch of good players getting off to some bad starts.

I'm not worried about the Sox and I'm not worried about my fantasy team, not that anyone cares about my fantasy team.

OEO Magglio
04-11-2005, 09:40 PM
For the people worried about Freddy giving up some long flyballs today did anyone think he could have been pitching to the conditions. Even Widger mentioned after the game that Freddy used way more fastballs then he usually does, to me it seems logical he was challenging more hitters because he knew it would be real hard to get the ball out of the park.

JB98
04-11-2005, 10:31 PM
No - if this trend continues we will not only finish first, but we will do so by a record margin.

You honestly think we can win 90-plus games in the American League by averaging less than four runs per game?

What color is the sky in your world?

ChiSoxRowand
04-11-2005, 10:33 PM
Detroit faced Westbrook, so I can't argue that. But I don't think they faced Millwood. Wouldn't explain the Sox offense against Westbrook, but until the Tigers face Millwood, we don't know that they'd club him.

The Tigers faced Elarton, Westbrook, and Davis. Elarton and Davis suck, but they did rock Westbrook. As for all of the long fly balls off Freddy today, Widger said after the game that Freddy threw more fastballs than he normally would because of the conditions. On another note, I hate these Monday, Wednesday, Thursday series formats. I hate having the day off between games. Good thing this is the last one.

Flight #24
04-11-2005, 10:37 PM
You honestly think we can win 90-plus games in the American League by averaging less than four runs per game?

What color is the sky in your world?

They most certainly can, as long as they average less than 4 runs allowed a game.

Why is it that you seem to believe that they will not improve on O, yet their pitching will somehow decline? IMO there'll likely be some of both.

JB98
04-11-2005, 10:42 PM
They most certainly can, as long as they average less than 4 runs allowed a game.

Why is it that you seem to believe that they will not improve on O, yet their pitching will somehow decline? IMO there'll likely be some of both.

I never said anything like that. I think the offense will get better. My point is, it has to get better in order for this team to be successful over the long haul.

It's great that we've won a couple games 2-1 and 1-0. But you can't expect that to continue in American League baseball.

MRKARNO
04-11-2005, 10:47 PM
You honestly think we can win 90-plus games in the American League by averaging less than four runs per game?


In their seven games they've seen:

Millwood twice 2 W's
Santana once L
Westbrook once W
Bradke once W
Lohse once W
Cliff Lee once L due to bullpen, but had 3 run lead

5 of those seven are among the best pitchers in the major leagues. They've won their fair share of games started by excellent starting pitchers and they've hit the bad ones hard enough. In the coming week we see Sele, Lee, Franklin and Meche, so that shouldnt be too bad. We do see Westbrook and Bradke again as well (Santana's probably coming again soon too), but we're beating good pitchers, we're just not scoring a ton off of them, but enough to give our starters a chance to win.

Flight #24
04-11-2005, 10:50 PM
I never said anything like that. I think the offense will get better. My point is, it has to get better in order for this team to be successful over the long haul.

It's great that we've won a couple games 2-1 and 1-0. But you can't expect that to continue in American League baseball.

The implication of that statement is that we'll have a hard time holding AL teams to 0 & 1 run/game. By the same token, teams will have a hard time holding us to 1 & 2 runs/game. Too many guys underachieving right now at the plate for that not to be true.

We'll be fine. The pitching will be less dominant than we've seen to far, but IMO will stay very good. The O will improve. Too many guys underachieving right now for it not to.

EDIT: FWIW, the team ERA is 3.66. If you eliminate the 11-run, 11-inning game last week as an outlier, it drops to 2.55:o:.

JB98
04-11-2005, 11:11 PM
In their seven games they've seen:

Millwood twice 2 W's
Santana once L
Westbrook once W
Bradke once W
Lohse once W
Cliff Lee once L due to bullpen, but had 3 run lead

5 of those seven are among the best pitchers in the major leagues. They've won their fair share of games started by excellent starting pitchers and they've hit the bad ones hard enough. In the coming week we see Sele, Lee, Franklin and Meche, so that shouldnt be too bad. We do see Westbrook and Bradke again as well (Santana's probably coming again soon too), but we're beating good pitchers, we're just not scoring a ton off of them, but enough to give our starters a chance to win.

It's pretty clear I don't hold Millwood and Westbrook in the same esteem as you. I was pleased that we got to Radke.

SoxSpeed22
04-11-2005, 11:11 PM
WOW I HATE ESPN

They don't even know how to say "White SOx". This was a good game, Millwood and Garcia had great pitching. The highlights were really really lame. "And scott podsednik hits a single.... White Sox upset Cleveland.... 2.... to 1"

***?


What the crap is an upset in the regular season?! They're clearly still in college mode with the word upset. Every time a crappy team wins is considered an upset? Just cuz' they think Cleveland is better than us doesn't call it an "upset". I was workin out today and one guy had "Baseball tonight" on. I left the vicinity as quickly as I could before they started smoochin' all over the Twins' asses. MLB.com is my baseball info, if not, Fox Sports. Also I move media related Twins stuff should be on "What's the Score?" from now on.

batmanZoSo
04-11-2005, 11:35 PM
What the crap is an upset in the regular season?! They're clearly still in college mode with the word upset. Every time a crappy team wins is considered an upset? Just cuz' they think Cleveland is better than us doesn't call it an "upset". I was workin out today and one guy had "Baseball tonight" on. I left the vicinity as quickly as I could before they started smoochin' all over the Twins' asses. MLB.com is my baseball info, if not, Fox Sports. Also I move media related Twins stuff should be on "What's the Score?" from now on.

The White Sox upset the Indians and advance to the sweet 16. :rolleyes:

FarWestChicago
04-11-2005, 11:41 PM
-Out of this second point comes the fact that he's difficult to watch on the day after watching Buehrle due to his inefficiency. I guess we got different telecasts of the Sunday game. Perhaps an ESPN the Tabloid Central vs. Pacific one. :D:

flo-B-flo
04-11-2005, 11:58 PM
Freddy pitches an 8 inning, 4 hitter and people are bitching about Joe Crede...

Way to go Freddy.

Today's Good News
Another awesome start
Pods goes 2-4 and brings his average up to .280
Crede has 2 hits
We steal 2 bases
Marte and Shingo pitch a good 9th
AND THE SOX WIN


Today's Bad News
JR is cheap
KW is stupid
We need Magglio
I was stuck in my office in Chicago instead of a box seat at the Jake
Smallball sucks
Crede is terrible
Miguel Olivo is a 5 tool catcher who we gave away
We don't hit HRs
Our payroll is too small
The upper deck is too steep
I bought a ticket for the upper deck and I can't go to the lower deck
I miss Carlos Lee
Jeremy Reed is awesome
etc. etc. etc. This should be in the White Sox creed.:smile:

jabrch
04-12-2005, 09:30 AM
You honestly think we can win 90-plus games in the American League by averaging less than four runs per game?

What color is the sky in your world?


You said - "if this pace keeps up"

And in this pace, we are allowing fewer runs than we score in 5 of 7 games. So if this pace keeps up - then we can win 100+ games by averaging less than 4 runs per game. You can't come up with a mythical scenario where suddenly we start giving up more runs and don't score more runs and say that IF that happens - then we will be worse. NO KIDDING? Name a team that won't hold true for. But right now, we are 5-2 by scoring under 4 runs per game because we are ALLOWING fewer runs than we score. If you hypothesis is that if we suddenly pitch much worse, but hit the same, then we won't be nearly as effective, then I'd have to agree - but that's fairly obvious. I see no reason this team will score under 4 runs per game on the course of the season. You are taking a 7 game sample size and extrapolating it out for 162 games for the offense, then creating your own sample on the pitching that is unrelated to what we have seen so far from them, and using that as a basis for a theory. Neither are any good - you can't use a 7 game sample and exrapolate out. And you can't create a scenario where the pitching suddenly fails while the hitting doesn't improve.

LVSoxFan
04-12-2005, 11:09 PM
Well, as my baseball fanatic co-worker said before the season: he believes that as Crede goes, so the Sox go. Interesting theory.

Meaning: if Crede bats .200, we may scrape by, but it will be a battle. If Crede finally gels, we should be invincible. I don't think it's that much of a stretch.

I'm willing to give Crede another year; he had a crappy year last year but not too long ago so did a guy named Konerko. But THIS is the year for Crede to snap out of it. I don't expect a 180 with only seven games done, but at the All Star break I will be looking at Crede.

Ol' No. 2
04-13-2005, 08:56 AM
Well, as my baseball fanatic co-worker said before the season: he believes that as Crede goes, so the Sox go. Interesting theory.

Meaning: if Crede bats .200, we may scrape by, but it will be a battle. If Crede finally gels, we should be invincible. I don't think it's that much of a stretch.

I'm willing to give Crede another year; he had a crappy year last year but not too long ago so did a guy named Konerko. But THIS is the year for Crede to snap out of it. I don't expect a 180 with only seven games done, but at the All Star break I will be looking at Crede.I hardly think that Joe Crede (or any one player) is the key to the team's success.