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View Full Version : Frank Thomas Watch/What about Carl?


RKMeibalane
04-11-2005, 01:42 PM
Link (http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/111sd4.htm)

ma_deuce
04-11-2005, 02:31 PM
I agree with Ozzie. Frank should take his time and come back 100%. We'll need him later in the year.

The Racehorse
04-11-2005, 02:34 PM
I was hoping for an early-May return for Frank. I have no way to quantify my [gut] feeling that he will make a huge positive impact this season when he does return... he has to be chomping at the bit... Damn!

SOX ADDICT '73
04-11-2005, 02:51 PM
I like that's he's getting so much extra time to work on his hitting while in Tucson - he's going to be sharp when he gets here. We're counting on Frank's bat, not his ability to steal bags, or even play first base for that matter.

Of course, it would be embarassing as hell for him to line one to the wall in left field and still get thrown out at first base. Get those wheels going Frank!

StockdaleForVeep
04-11-2005, 04:49 PM
AP-Today on the frank thomas watch, frank sat on the toliet without the aid of a cane for support, the sox 1b\dh has high hopes of returning to active play after this improvement in his mobility.

harwar
04-11-2005, 04:57 PM
Maybe its just Ozzie being Ozzie but it sounds like he could care less if and when Frank comes back.

With an offense as anemic as this one,i would be counting the days until Franks' return if i were the manager.

FightingBillini
04-11-2005, 05:14 PM
With an offense as anemic as this one,i would be counting the days until Franks' return if i were the manager.:chickenlittle
I was under the impression that we have only played 6 games so far. You can't call an offense "anemic" because it didn't hit the lights out for a week.

kittle42
04-11-2005, 05:15 PM
Maybe its just Ozzie being Ozzie but it sounds like he could care less if and when Frank comes back.

With an offense as anemic as this one,i would be counting the days until Franks' return if i were the manager.

Why? The player he would mostly replace (Everett) is driving in runs consistently.

NonetheLoaiza
04-11-2005, 06:10 PM
Why? The player he would mostly replace (Everett) is driving in runs consistently.

Frank should be in no hurry. I'm sure he wants to come back asap and play, but as long as Everett is hitting like he is hitting these first couple games, we can afford Frank taking the most time possible to come back. I would like a healthy Frank, and not a Frank beleaguered for the rest of the year.

peeonwrigley
04-11-2005, 06:20 PM
Why? The player he would mostly replace (Everett) is driving in runs consistently.

I know its really really early, but if Carl is producing when Frank returns and JD is struggling, I can see Hot Carl becoming our every day right fielder ahead of Dye.

CubKiller5
04-11-2005, 06:25 PM
I know its really really early, but if Carl is producing when Frank returns and JD is struggling, I can see Hot Carl becoming our every day right fielder ahead of Dye.:gulp::cool:

Frater Perdurabo
04-11-2005, 07:44 PM
I know its really really early, but if Carl is producing when Frank returns and JD is struggling, I can see Hot Carl becoming our every day right fielder ahead of Dye.

That would be an interesting conundrum if everyone is producing at the time when Frank comes back. Everett could rotate between LF, RF and DH to spell Pods, Rowand, Dye and Frank. Everett wouldn't play center, but he could play left while Pods replaced Rowand in center every fifth game.

Day 1: Dye (RF), Rowand (CF), Pods (LF), Frank (DH)
Day 2: Everett (RF), Rowand (CF), Pods (LF), Frank (DH)
Day 3: Dye (RF), Pods (CF), Everett (LF), Frank (DH)
Day 4: Dye (RF), Rowand (CF), Everett (LF), Frank (DH)
Day 5: Dye (RF), Rowand (CF), Pods (LF), Everett (DH)

Of course these defensive assignments would not always occur in this order. But they would give each player the opportunity to play 4 of every 5 games, or 80% of the time. This would be a good problem to have.

RKMeibalane
04-11-2005, 07:45 PM
I know its really really early, but if Carl is producing when Frank returns and JD is struggling, I can see Hot Carl becoming our every day right fielder ahead of Dye.

That seems to be the plan, though Guillen hasn't said anything yet. Frank is the starter at DH, and the three most productive outfielders are the ones who will play when he returns.

RKMeibalane
04-11-2005, 07:47 PM
That would be an interesting conundrum if everyone is producing at the time when Frank comes back. Everett could rotate between LF, RF and DH to spell Pods, Rowand, Dye and Frank. Everett wouldn't play center, but he could play left while Pods replaced Rowand in center every fifth game.

Day 1: Dye (RF), Rowand (CF), Pods (LF), Frank (DH)
Day 2: Everett (RF), Rowand (CF), Pods (LF), Frank (DH)
Day 3: Dye (RF), Pods (CF), Everett (LF), Frank (DH)
Day 4: Dye (RF), Rowand (CF), Everett (LF), Frank (DH)
Day 5: Dye (RF), Rowand (CF), Pods (LF), Everett (DH)

Of course these defensive assignments would not always occur in this order. But they would give each player the opportunity to play 4 of every 5 games, or 80% of the time. This would be a good problem to have.

This is a good idea. It might also be worth seeing if Frank can play first base at all, in case Konerko needs a rest. Given that Frank originally injured his ankle while playing defense, I don't know what the plans are as far as his playing 1B is concerned, but it's worth looking into.

Frater Perdurabo
04-11-2005, 09:00 PM
This is a good idea. It might also be worth seeing if Frank can play first base at all, in case Konerko needs a rest. Given that Frank originally injured his ankle while playing defense, I don't know what the plans are as far as his playing 1B is concerned, but it's worth looking into.

A year ago I would have agreed completely, particularly given the fact that Konerko was coming off his miserable 2003 and Frank's numbers at 1B are better than at DH. However, given his performance last season, I personally would stick with Frank at DH in all but emergency situations. If that means he has to sit duing the interleague games at NL parks, so be it. Missing Frank for, what, nine interleague games beats risking losing him for an extended period of time, especially since he will be returning from an 11-month injury layoff.

However, if Frank says he can play the field, then you simply add 1B to the mix and give Konerko every sixth day off.

Day 1: Dye (RF), Rowand (CF), Pods (LF), Frank (DH), Konerko (1B)
Day 2: Everett (RF), Rowand (CF), Pods (LF), Frank (DH), Konerko (1B)
Day 3: Dye (RF), Pods (CF), Everett (LF), Frank (DH), Konerko (1B)
Day 4: Dye (RF), Rowand (CF), Everett (LF), Frank (DH), Konerko (1B)
Day 5: Dye (RF), Rowand (CF), Pods (LF), Everett (DH), Konerko (1B)
Day 6: Dye (RF), Rowand (CF), Pods (LF), Everett (DH), Frank (1B)

RKMeibalane
04-11-2005, 09:10 PM
A year ago I would have agreed completely, particularly given the fact that Konerko was coming off his miserable 2003 and Frank's numbers at 1B are better than at DH. However, given his performance last season, I personally would stick with Frank at DH in all but emergency situations. If that means he has to sit duing the interleague games at NL parks, so be it. Missing Frank for, what, nine interleague games beats risking losing him for an extended period of time, especially since he will be returning from an 11-month injury layoff.

However, if Frank says he can play the field, then you simply add 1B to the mix and give Konerko every sixth day off.

Day 1: Dye (RF), Rowand (CF), Pods (LF), Frank (DH), Konerko (1B)
Day 2: Everett (RF), Rowand (CF), Pods (LF), Frank (DH), Konerko (1B)
Day 3: Dye (RF), Pods (CF), Everett (LF), Frank (DH), Konerko (1B)
Day 4: Dye (RF), Rowand (CF), Everett (LF), Frank (DH), Konerko (1B)
Day 5: Dye (RF), Rowand (CF), Pods (LF), Everett (DH), Konerko (1B)
Day 6: Dye (RF), Rowand (CF), Pods (LF), Everett (DH), Frank (1B)

:crede

"How do I fit into this equation?"

:ohno

"You don't."

Lip Man 1
04-11-2005, 09:27 PM
I don't think you will ever see Frank in the field again, at least not this year.

Lip

voodoochile
04-11-2005, 09:44 PM
I know its really really early, but if Carl is producing when Frank returns and JD is struggling, I can see Hot Carl becoming our every day right fielder ahead of Dye.

It will depend if Pods falters, Everett can go to LF.

If Rowand falters, Pods can go to CF and Everett to LF

If Dye falters, Everett can go to RF.

If Everett falters, he can sit on the bench.

Lots of options. Both Pods and Rowand are guys who still have to prove they can consistently do it on this level. I like them both, but nothing is guaranteed when they both have had one solid season in their careers so far and of course Dye is older, so he might take a step back or get injured.

voodoochile
04-11-2005, 09:45 PM
This is a good idea. It might also be worth seeing if Frank can play first base at all, in case Konerko needs a rest. Given that Frank originally injured his ankle while playing defense, I don't know what the plans are as far as his playing 1B is concerned, but it's worth looking into.

No. Frank must never play the field again. His bat is too valuable even if it is only his DH level bat.

RKMeibalane
04-11-2005, 10:17 PM
No. Frank must never play the field again. His bat is too valuable even if it is only his DH level bat.

Never again? What about the seventh game of the World Series in an NL park? I had to ask.

Bobbo35
04-11-2005, 10:22 PM
What are the Sox going to do when Big Frank comes back and if Carl is still hitting well? He is going to be a waste on the bench especially if his bat is still kicking.

soltrain21
04-11-2005, 10:42 PM
I would say you have a revolving door between him, Thomas and Dye. It is a GREAT problem to have. Our bench will be stacked which is huge come playoff time.

OG4LIFE
04-11-2005, 10:57 PM
I would say you have a revolving door between him, Thomas and Dye. It is a GREAT problem to have. Our bench will be stacked which is huge come playoff time.

i went ahead and removed the pink.

Kadafi311
04-11-2005, 11:01 PM
What are the Sox going to do when Big Frank comes back and if Carl is still hitting well? He is going to be a waste on the bench especially if his bat is still kicking.

I can think of worse problems :cool:

EDIT: Am I the only one who starts talking to himself when Crazy Carl steps into the box? I think it's just that name... Crazy Carl. Makes me crazy. Seriously.

MarkZ35
04-11-2005, 11:17 PM
I would think the only option is to keep him on the bench as backup RF,CF,LF, DH. If he is the main backup player he would still play about half the games.

skobabe8
04-11-2005, 11:17 PM
ive been thinking about this for a while now. while it is a nice problem to have, you have to just hope that no one grumbles too loudly about not getting enough playing time. it might be a fragile situation. maybe carl can play third!

MeanFish
04-11-2005, 11:30 PM
I was thinking, and the best option seems to be a rotation, such as the following:

Day 1: Pods LF, Aaron CF, Dye RF, Everett DH
Day 2: Everett LF, Aaron CF, Dye RF, Thomas DH
Day 3: Everett LF, Pods CF, Dye RF, Thomas DH
Day 4: Pods LF, Aaron CF, Everett RF, Thomas DH
Day 5: Pods LF, Aaron CF, Dye RF, Thomas DH

This allows each of these four players to play 80% of the time, some more some less depending on matchups and such. It's fair to everyone though, and in no way handicaps the lineup. I wouldn't call it a platoon, because playing 4 games out of 5 is hardly that.

Fake Chet Lemon
04-11-2005, 11:32 PM
Wait for Dye to get injured, Rowand to run into a wall, or Podszilla to tear his groin and put him in the outfield. Hopefully none of this really happens, but it's a long season. I have a feeling there will be a point after Franks return that we will be very glad we have Carl around and he'll play a big role. Frank could reinjure himself as well, he puts a ton of stress on that ankle.

Banix12
04-11-2005, 11:34 PM
Everett then might get a little more time in the OF, I think he'd still DH once or twice a week. Certainly his playing time will drop but I think he understands that is going to happen since that has been the plan all along and I don't expect any grumbling from him.

HITMEN OF 77
04-12-2005, 01:35 AM
Thomas has been a huge part of the Sox for 15+ years and such but if CE is still hot I hate to see him benched, I think Thomas might have to be the one to play once or twice a week.

Epark84
04-12-2005, 01:43 AM
Thomas has been a huge part of the Sox for 15+ years and such but if CE is still hot I hate to see him benched, I think Thomas might have to be the one to play once or twice a week.

Im not sure Id go that far, but Im not even sure how much of an issue it will be. Thomas has not shown the ability to stay healthy for long stretches the past few years. He is a big man who is getting old and who joints and lower extremeties are not as strong as they used to be. Lets hope we have to worry about what to do, but Im glad to see everett coming through. But if frank is healthy, there is no way you only play him once or twice a week. Everett can play all 3 OF positions, granted not gold glove caliber, but he is adequate. Plus the team will have injuries.

ND_Sox_Fan
04-12-2005, 01:44 AM
Thomas has been a huge part of the Sox for 15+ years and such but if CE is still hot I hate to see him benched, I think Thomas might have to be the one to play once or twice a week.

I think you may have had a few too many :gulp: tonight.

Even if Carl is hitting well for his standards, I don't think he is going to come close to Frank's OBP or OPS numbers. I like the 80% "platoon" as mentioned above, but let's see what happens in the next month before we make any decisions ... the season is still quite young!!

balke
04-12-2005, 02:54 AM
Would we be stupid enough to trade Frank away for a closer or something if we're in a playoff chase? Ozzie doesn't even seem to care what's going on w/ Frank right now, and might like that Hot Carl is quicker.


I don't want this, I just fear it. What do ya'll think?

Bobbo35
04-12-2005, 07:19 AM
Ya, it is doesn't seem that Ozzie really cares about Frank by the comments he makes about him. It seems like he can't stand him one bit. Still, Big Frank deserves to play no matter what. He is the mainstay of this team. I know he will come through when he plays again. So much for "smart ball" with Big Frank, but I can deal with that.

Iguana775
04-12-2005, 09:15 AM
I was thinking, and the best option seems to be a rotation, such as the following:

Day 1: Pods LF, Aaron CF, Dye RF, Everett DH
Day 2: Everett LF, Aaron CF, Dye RF, Thomas DH
Day 3: Everett LF, Pods CF, Dye RF, Thomas DH
Day 4: Pods LF, Aaron CF, Everett RF, Thomas DH
Day 5: Pods LF, Aaron CF, Dye RF, Thomas DH

This allows each of these four players to play 80% of the time, some more some less depending on matchups and such. It's fair to everyone though, and in no way handicaps the lineup. I wouldn't call it a platoon, because playing 4 games out of 5 is hardly that.

Thomas can also give Walnuts a break at 1B once in a while too.

mikehuff
04-12-2005, 09:41 AM
I can't imagine Frank is going to have anymore time at 1B anymore since his injury. I think he's a full-time DH from now on.

Having Everett hit like this will definitely take the pressure off of Frank. He will have more time to get acclamated to the league and we won't be so reliant on just him.

I don't like the idea of Everett in the outfield, but you can't take that bat out of the lineup. We have about a month more before we have to worry about any of this, so we'll see.

harwar
04-12-2005, 09:51 AM
I know its early but,with mlb x-tra innings,i get to hear opinions of broadcast teams from around the league.
Last year they were all commenting on how much easier it is during the pitchers meetings to form a plan of attack against our lineup.
The other teams in the AL would be very happy indeed if they never again had to see Frank Thomas.

PatK
04-12-2005, 11:19 AM
I don't think that Ozzie "doesn't care" about Frank, it's just that he's not worrying about if/when he will return right now.

He's keeping the focus on the players he has that are available, and will worry about what to do with Frank when he becomes available.

mweflen
04-12-2005, 11:21 AM
No way in the universe Frank plays any 1B after/IF he comes back.

I'm getting the feeling that they'll try to play Frank as little as possible regardless of his condition, to soften the blow with the fans when they let him go after the season. KW is in love with Carl and wants to have a million of his babies. And JR will want to keep him because he's cheap.

Not to downplay Carl's contirbutions thus far. As of now, he's the guy I'd most want up in an RBI situation for us.

jabrch
04-12-2005, 11:24 AM
and might like that Hot Carl is quicker.

Hot Carl? YUCK

Ya never know when you will have an injury. Carl is tremendously valuable since he can play anywhere in the OF. (I know - he's a bad CF, and would be 3rd on our CF depth chart - but in a pinch - he could go there for a bit.)

He has loads of trade value to any contender who might also have an injury.

If we can't get a lot for him, I'd love to see him still on the team and rotating to get a few starts a week. Dye has a history of getting hurt. Frank may not be 100% even when he is back. I see no problem with keeping all those guys - but wouldn't be opposed to trading Carl or even Jermaine if we were getting great value for them.

KW has a lot of flexibility. That's nice.

voodoochile
04-12-2005, 11:27 AM
Never again? What about the seventh game of the World Series in an NL park? I had to ask.

If they can make it that far with him not playing the field, WHY would you mess with success?

Ol' No. 2
04-12-2005, 11:38 AM
Never again? What about the seventh game of the World Series in an NL park? I had to ask.That would be really terrible to be in that position, wouldn't it?

:cleo No worries. I see the Sox winning in a 4-game sweep.

HITMEN OF 77
04-12-2005, 11:40 AM
Thomas can also give Walnuts a break at 1B once in a while too.

I'd rather see Gload out there at first, then Frank.

RKMeibalane
04-12-2005, 01:22 PM
If they can make it that far with him not playing the field, WHY would you mess with success?

I wouldn't have a problem with it in the event that something happened to Konerko during the course of the series. Do you really want the Sox title hopes to rest on the mighty shoulders of Ross Gload? :o:

Fake Chet Lemon
04-12-2005, 01:54 PM
Thomas has been a huge part of the Sox for 15+ years and such but if CE is still hot I hate to see him benched, I think Thomas might have to be the one to play once or twice a week.

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

CubKiller5
04-12-2005, 02:13 PM
I think you are reading way too much into Ozzie's comments regarding Frank. He was emphasising his job is about the 25 men on his roster. Frank is Kenny Williams concern at this point. Not Ozzie's. If he were to concern himself with Frank it would be a distraction to the team.

I'm looking forward to Frank's return. Especially if he tears up AAA.
I can only imagine how those fans are going to feel seeing Frank play in the rehab assignment.

Right now are OFers are struggling at the plate: Dye 721 OPS, Pods 590 OPS, & Rowand 435 OPS. Compare that to Everett's 996 OPS. Pods has a bigger edge being the leadoff guy. I don't think Rowand has any edge over Dye because Pods can play CF. What he lacks in the arm stength he makes up for in foot speed. Dye is pretty solid defensively in RF.

If Rowand continues to struggle we could see Everett, Pods, Dye as the main OF. Basically they would juggle the 4 guys to get the most out of their AB's. Everett & Pods getting the most AB's.
1) Everett, Pods, Dye
2) Pods, Rowand, Everett

I think they are confident that Everett can manage being juggled from LF to RF but they'd like to see some games under Pods at CF to make that decision. He's certainly got plenty of experience at CF in Milw.

batmanZoSo
04-12-2005, 02:18 PM
I think you are reading way too much into Ozzie's comments regarding Frank. He was emphasising his job is about the 25 men on his roster. Frank is Kenny Williams concern at this point. Not Ozzie's. If he were to concern himself with Frank it would be a distraction to the team.

I'm looking forward to Frank's return. Especially if he tears up AAA.
I can only imagine how those fans are going to feel seeing Frank play in the rehab assignment.

Right now are OFers are struggling at the plate: Dye 721 OPS, Pods 590 OPS, & Rowand 435 OPS. Compare that to Everett's 996 OPS. Pods has a bigger edge being the leadoff guy. I don't think Rowand has any edge over Dye because Pods can play CF. What he lacks in the arm stength he makes up for in foot speed. Dye is pretty solid defensively in RF.

If Rowand continues to struggle we could see Everett, Pods, Dye as the main OF. Basically they would juggle the 4 guys to get the most out of their AB's. Everett & Pods getting the most AB's.
1) Everett, Pods, Dye
2) Pods, Rowand, Everett

I think they are confident that Everett can manage being juggled from LF to RF but they'd like to see some games under Pods at CF to make that decision. He's certainly got plenty of experience at CF in Milw.

Yeah, f Rowand does continue to struggle badly, he'll have to be the 4th outfielder, but the good thing for him is Everett and Dye aren't quite every day material. He'd get a lot of playing time that way, plus he can play all three positions adequately or better. This is purely hypothetical though...Rowand did hit .310 at this level last year and he's more integral to our future than the other two are. Realistically, I see Rowand being fine and Everett being the odd man out who fills in for Rowand and Dye whenever they need a day off...or I see Everett being traded eventually.

mweflen
04-12-2005, 02:21 PM
I'm telling you, Everett is going to be seen by Sox brass as the poor man's Big Frank. They'll ditch BFT if they can keep Everett for 2 years/8 mil.

OTOH, if Frank negotiates a cheap incentive-based extension after next season, then all bets are off.

Jerome
04-12-2005, 03:09 PM
We should put Everrett in RF. It's never a bad thing to have OF depth. Dye can easily come off the bench/platoon.

Also, if Podsednik struggles/gets injured, I would much rather have Dye and Everrett at the corners than Rowand and Dye (meaning Willie would be in CF).

All those who complained about the "power outage" (including myself) should shut up when we get Frank back. Konerko, Thomas, Everrett are good enough power hitters, especially in the Cell.

Flight #24
04-12-2005, 03:14 PM
I'm telling you, Everett is going to be seen by Sox brass as the poor man's Big Frank. They'll ditch BFT if they can keep Everett for 2 years/8 mil.

OTOH, if Frank negotiates a cheap incentive-based extension after next season, then all bets are off.Keeping carl & dumping Frank costs you $8.5mil (5mil option on Carl + 3.5 buyout on Frank).

Keeping Frank and dumping Carl costs you $10mil.

It's an extremely poor man who selects Carl Everett+1.5mil over Frank Thomas. more to the point, it's an extremely stupid man.

CubKiller5
04-12-2005, 03:57 PM
Keeping carl & dumping Frank costs you $8.5mil (5mil option on Carl + 3.5 buyout on Frank).

Keeping Frank and dumping Carl costs you $10mil.

It's an extremely poor man who selects Carl Everett+1.5mil over Frank Thomas. more to the point, it's an extremely stupid man.

Agree 100%, likewise I feel Frank will renegotiate a new contract extension with the White Sox. Carl's presence will actually help in that process.
Since 2002 Carl's had about 1200 AB's. Frank's had about 1300 AB's. After 2005 they'll probably have the same number of AB's over the past 3 yrs.

Possible new contract for Frank:
06: 6 mil + 1 mil top 10 in avg, 1 mil top 10 in rbi, 1 mil top 10 in mvp : 9 mil
07: 7 mil + 1 mil top 10 in avg, 1 mil top 5 in rbi, 1 mil top 10 in rbi, 1 mil top 10 in mvp : 11 mil
08: 8 mil + 1 mil top 10 in avg, 1 mil top 5 in rbi, 1 mil top 10 in rbi, 1 mil top 5 in mvp, 1 mil top 10 in mvp : 13 mil
09: 9 mil + 1 mil top 10 in avg, 1 mil top 5 in rbi, 1 mil top 10 in rbi, 1 mil top 5 in mvp, 1 mil top 10 in mvp : 14 mil

I think that's a reasonable contract for what Thomas has meant to this franchise over his career. That affords him a chance to make more $ than ShamMe is likely to earn over that time.

I'd also like to point out that 9 mil is what I think Edgar was making with the M's during his swan song year.

jabrch
04-12-2005, 04:21 PM
I really doubt Frank will take another incentive laden deal...I think he learned his lesson.

Deadguy
04-13-2005, 12:59 PM
I think it's too early to judge what will happen when Frank returns. A lot can happen between now and then. Right now we're talking about a relatively small sample size to judge the players who could be rotated in or out if Thomas returns. Rowand isn't going to be hitting .115 a month from now, and Carl probably isn't going to be hitting .346. It's probably too early to speculate about this, since it sounds like Thomas won't be on the SS for quite some time.

RKMeibalane
04-13-2005, 03:04 PM
I think it's too early to judge what will happen when Frank returns. A lot can happen between now and then. Right now we're talking about a relatively small sample size to judge the players who could be rotated in or out if Thomas returns. Rowand isn't going to be hitting .115 a month from now, and Carl probably isn't going to be hitting .346. It's probably too early to speculate about this, since it sounds like Thomas won't be on the SS for quite some time.

It depends how long it takes for him to finish breaking through the scarred tissue in his ankle. That seems to be what's holding him back. It's too bad there's not a way to break up the tissue with lasers. Maybe I'll have to invent one.