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View Full Version : Shingo as a closer.


MINFAN1
04-08-2005, 11:14 AM
I know yesterdays lost was clearley a manager (Ozzie) making bad decisions. But, I cannot see Shingo as the go to guy in these close-out nineth-inning games. Last year was beginners luck for Mr. Zero, and certainley better then Koch. But, this year the batters are wise to him. They will take him deep into a count looking for his wiffle-ball pancake that will be served up like a big old tater to these hitters like he did yesterday. As a specialty pitcher to be used as setups in occasions maybe. But, as a everyday closer I think we got better options.

DaveIsHere
04-08-2005, 11:16 AM
Dude he blew one save, I believe he is 20 for 23 since closing for the Sox, looks like he sucks. I he doesnt work out we have hermanson, Man, you people need some meds around here lately:o:

fledgedrallycap
04-08-2005, 11:18 AM
I know yesterdays lost was clearley a manager (Ozzie) making bad decisions. But, I cannot see Shingo as the go to guy in these close-out nineth-inning games. Last year was beginners luck for Mr. Zero, and certainley better then Koch. But, this year the batters are wise to him. They will take him deep into a count looking for his wiffle-ball pancake that will be served up like a big old tater to these hitters like he did yesterday. As a specialty pitcher to be used as setups in occasions maybe. But, as a everyday closer I think we got better options.

Everyone said the same damn thing last year and he got the job done. If he goes out and doesn't get the job done, our pen is deep enough to support a change. However, let's not jump to conclusions after one loss to a run producing ball club.

Rocky Soprano
04-08-2005, 11:21 AM
If I am correct, this is his second blown save with the Sox. The first also came against the Indians.

Had Shingo closed the game, no one would of said Ozzie was stupid for getting all of relievers in the game. But since Shingo failed now everyone is blaiming Ozzie.

Yes Ozzie, probably shoud of not used all of those pitchers but he had no idea of knowing Shingo was going to blow it. I'm sure that Ozzie learned a lesson and he will never do that again. But it's not Ozzie's fault we lost yesterday.

Young Gun
04-08-2005, 11:24 AM
Majority of the hitters have already picked up Shingo's changeup. I still say leave him in there. This is his 2nd blown save in 2 years, he is an upgrade over Billy Koch. I wouldn't be heart broken if they swap him and Hermanson but as of now, there really is no reason.

Ol' No. 2
04-08-2005, 11:27 AM
Rivera blew two saves this week. What a doofus Joe Torre is for using him. I expect he'll be replaced as the Yankees closer by the next game.

Iwritecode
04-08-2005, 11:31 AM
They will take him deep into a count looking for his wiffle-ball pancake that will be served up like a big old tater to these hitters like he did yesterday.

It's only served up like a "big old tater" when he can't locate it, which was the case yesterday. It happens.

I guess we should get a good veteran closer than doesn't rely on location and changing speed. Somebody like Foulke. Oops, he's already blown a save too. Guess the hitters have caught up to him as well...

Kuzman
04-08-2005, 11:44 AM
i just hope this isnt a growing cause though, i mean 3 long balls in the same inning off the same pitcher means they have figured him out. i just hope he doesnt continue to blow the saves.

DaveIsHere
04-08-2005, 11:47 AM
I think yesterday was more of a location issue, he was being squeezed at the plate by the ump and starting leaving his pitchers Fat over the plate. We will all have to wait and see how it goes. We have backup if he doesnt workout, but he will be effective more times than not.

balke
04-08-2005, 12:13 PM
Jose was getting squeezed at the plate too, and pitched through it. I was really impressed with his pitching yesterday. Shingo should be better next outing. He did get a small strikezone.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-08-2005, 12:19 PM
Lest anyone get the impression otherwise, I think Shingo is the best closer we've had since Roberto Hernandez, or maybe even Bobby Thigpen. Shingo has a hundred different looks and a dozen different pitches. Unlike Foulke, none of the hitters can sit on just one pitch.
:thumbsup:

He blew the game yesterday. **** happens. He has earned the closer job and it's his for the forseeable future.

FightingBillini
04-08-2005, 12:30 PM
Lest anyone get the impression otherwise, I think Shingo is the best closer we've had since Roberto Hernandez, or maybe even Bobby Thigpen. Shingo has a hundred different looks and a dozen different pitches. Unlike Foulke, none of the hitters can sit on just one pitch.
:thumbsup:

He blew the game yesterday. **** happens. He has earned the closer job and it's his for the forseeable future.

OK, you aren't fluent in Billish, but you obviously understand some of it. :cool: It was one game. As someone said, the strikezone was tiny for Shingo (I don't know about for Contreras, I turned the game on in the 5th). I was pissed in the bottom of the 9th, the first pitch to Iguchi was called a strike, and it was in the same spot as one of Shingo's two strike pitches called a ball to Blake.:angry:

When the strikezone is tiny like that, you have to make perfect pitches. He didn't, and he got rocked. It sucks, but there are still 159 games left, and Shingo is going to save at least 30 of them.

SOXSINCE'70
04-08-2005, 12:31 PM
Rivera blew two saves this week. What a doofus Joe Torre is for using him. I expect he'll be replaced as the Yankees closer by the next game.

Off with Torre's head!!He's only won 4 WS titles in 6 tries!!:roflmao: :roflmao:

PaleHoseGeorge
04-08-2005, 12:33 PM
OK, you aren't fluent in Billish, but you obviously understand some of it. :cool: It was one game. As someone said, the strikezone was tiny for Shingo (I don't know about for Contreras, I turned the game on in the 5th). I was pissed in the bottom of the 9th, the first pitch to Iguchi was called a strike, and it was in the same spot as one of Shingo's two strike pitches called a ball to Blake.:angry:

When the strikezone is tiny like that, you have to make perfect pitches. He didn't, and he got rocked. It sucks, but there are still 159 games left, and Shingo is going to save at least 30 of them.

Oh, okay. I guess the strike zone was just fine for everyone else because Cleveland's pitchers did just fine. Right?

Now explain to me the difference between "Billish" and "Jibberish."

FightingBillini
04-08-2005, 12:38 PM
Oh, okay. I guess the strike zone was just fine for everyone else because Cleveland's pitchers did just fine. Right?

Now explain to me the difference between "Billish" and "Jibberish."

Like I said, I missed all the scoring until the 9th inning. it was 5-0 when I turned the game on, and I was doing homework while watching it (not fully paying attention). I dont know how big the strikezone was all day, but I did see that the same pitch was called differently in the top and bottom of the ninth. Oh well.

Palehose13
04-08-2005, 12:56 PM
Lest anyone get the impression otherwise, I think Shingo is the best closer we've had since Roberto Hernandez, or maybe even Bobby Thigpen. Shingo has a hundred different looks and a dozen different pitches. Unlike Foulke, none of the hitters can sit on just one pitch.
:thumbsup:

He blew the game yesterday. **** happens. He has earned the closer job and it's his for the forseeable future.

Great post. Right on target.

Chicago83
04-08-2005, 01:20 PM
Shingo just didn't have his stuff yesterday. If you watch all those HR they were on breaking pitches RIGHT over the plate, he was throwing up absolute garbage, and when Shingo's stuff aint breaking, well thats trouble. But when Shingo's stuff is good, he's a great closer, mas we saw on monday.

On Baseball Tongith they talked about closers this year and showed that Rivera, Takatsu, Cordero, and Hoffman all had ERA's in the 90's and explained that these guys were not ready for the season and had not pitched enogh innings against major leaguers.

The only thing I don't like about yesterday's game is the way Ozzie handled the bullpen. You'd thing it was the 7th game of the world series the way he burned our bullpen. Also he should of seen that Shingo's stuff was obviously not working and used Vizcaino to get that last out.

hdog1017
04-08-2005, 01:45 PM
He's going to blow a few saves a year. He's not Gagne. But if this becomes a trend, I'm going to love the Dustin Hermanson pick up even more.

WhiteSoxFan84
04-08-2005, 02:00 PM
What do the following closers all have in common;

Shingo Takastu
Trevor Hoffman
Mariano Rivera (2)
Bob Wickman
Greg Aquino?

All closers that blew saves this week. Did any of them get replaced? Aquino did but that's because he never solidified the job anyway. Give the guy a few more chances before we execute him. I think if anything this will pump him up and make him untouchable the rest of the way. If he gets rocked a few more times, I think Dustin Hermanson will be our closer.

wdelaney72
04-08-2005, 04:05 PM
What do the following closers all have in common;

Shingo Takastu
Trevor Hoffman
Mariano Rivera (2)
Bob Wickman
Greg Aquino?

All closers that blew saves this week. Did any of them get replaced? Aquino did but that's because he never solidified the job anyway. Give the guy a few more chances before we execute him. I think if anything this will pump him up and make him untouchable the rest of the way. If he gets rocked a few more times, I think Dustin Hermanson will be our closer.

I believe Keith Foulke can be added to that list.

Jurr
04-08-2005, 04:10 PM
I still have faith in Shingo, though I have a feeling he won't be the closer by the end of the year. I think he'll be a great right handed specialist.

However, I remember last year (the ONLY other save he'd ever blown) that he picked up a lot of criticism and second guessing about his future as the closer of the Sox. He responded like a pro, picked up his chin, and kept saving games. He's a crafty guy, and he's going to do everything in his power to get his save the next time he's on the mound.

That's the great thing about our bullpen depth, though. If he can't get the job done, we've got OPTIONS. All good teams do.

Chisox003
04-08-2005, 04:15 PM
Cant sit on Shingo's pitches?

I think whoever believes that is crazy....Every single HR was what pitch, and what location yesterday? Im pretty sure after Blakes BOMB, Crisp and Belliard were just sitting on that below average fastball and waiting for Shingo to make a mistake, and he made 2.

If he's wild with that frisbee like he was yesterday, he has ONE go to pitch that he can throw with SOMEWHAT confidence and throw for strikes..His brutal fastball-Thats when you see the Coco Crisps and Ronnie Belliards jackin bombs off him (And dont even say Belliard wasnt waiting for that-That was LAUNCHED)

Its simple-Shingo isnt a closer. He needs to be used sparingly, otherwise guys WILL get used to him and sit on that fastball, and when it comes (It has to come at least once per AB) theyre gonna crush it.

I like shingo as much as anyone, but its a fact that he is NOT a good closer...He doesnt have closers stuff, he doesnt have a closers mentality like a Gagne or River, something we desperatly need!!...Anybody beatin up on Foulke in this thread is ridiculous...Id kill to have him back....HES GOT A ****ING RING GUYS!!

Hermanson will be closing by June

Iwritecode
04-08-2005, 04:27 PM
Cant sit on Shingo's pitches?

I think whoever believes that is crazy....Every single HR was what pitch, and what location yesterday? Im pretty sure after Blakes BOMB, Crisp and Belliard were just sitting on that below average fastball and waiting for Shingo to make a mistake, and he made 2.

If he's wild with that frisbee like he was yesterday, he has ONE go to pitch that he can throw with SOMEWHAT confidence and throw for strikes..His brutal fastball-Thats when you see the Coco Crisps and Ronnie Belliards jackin bombs off him (And dont even say Belliard wasnt waiting for that-That was LAUNCHED)

Its simple-Shingo isnt a closer. He needs to be used sparingly, otherwise guys WILL get used to him and sit on that fastball, and when it comes (It has to come at least once per AB) theyre gonna crush it.

I like shingo as much as anyone, but its a fact that he is NOT a good closer...He doesnt have closers stuff, he doesnt have a closers mentality like a Gagne or River, something we desperatly need!!...Anybody beatin up on Foulke in this thread is ridiculous...Id kill to have him back....HES GOT A ****ING RING GUYS!!

Hermanson will be closing by June


Have you looked at Shingo's #'s in Japan? Granted it's not MLB but still pretty damn good. It's not like he was some really good reliever that they just decided to make a closer last year.

I didn't see anyone slamming Foulke either. It's easy to compare the two because they both rely on wicked change-ups and mediocre fastballs. When either one of them is having trouble locating the change-up, they are going to get hit hard...

Jurr
04-08-2005, 04:28 PM
I just can't wait until Shingo gets his next three saves without a problem and this all goes away. Hopefully he gets those next three Fri, Sat, and Sun.

Ol' No. 2
04-08-2005, 04:33 PM
Cant sit on Shingo's pitches?

I think whoever believes that is crazy....Every single HR was what pitch, and what location yesterday? Im pretty sure after Blakes BOMB, Crisp and Belliard were just sitting on that below average fastball and waiting for Shingo to make a mistake, and he made 2.

If he's wild with that frisbee like he was yesterday, he has ONE go to pitch that he can throw with SOMEWHAT confidence and throw for strikes..His brutal fastball-Thats when you see the Coco Crisps and Ronnie Belliards jackin bombs off him (And dont even say Belliard wasnt waiting for that-That was LAUNCHED)

Its simple-Shingo isnt a closer. He needs to be used sparingly, otherwise guys WILL get used to him and sit on that fastball, and when it comes (It has to come at least once per AB) theyre gonna crush it.

I like shingo as much as anyone, but its a fact that he is NOT a good closer...He doesnt have closers stuff, he doesnt have a closers mentality like a Gagne or River, something we desperatly need!!...Anybody beatin up on Foulke in this thread is ridiculous...Id kill to have him back....HES GOT A ****ING RING GUYS!!

Hermanson will be closing by JuneRubbish. Any pitcher that is having trouble throwing strikes is going to get killed because when you're down 3-0 you have to throw the fastball. And there is only one pitcher I know of that throws a hard enough fastball that the batter can't hit it if he knows it's coming: Charlie Sheen.

DaleJRFan
04-08-2005, 04:34 PM
I just can't wait until Shingo gets his next three saves without a problem and this all goes away. Hopefully he gets those next three Fri, Sat, and Sun.

I couldn't agree with you more.

Knowing the kind of team-guy Shingo really seems to be, I can say with a certain ammount of confidence, that he feels badly for letting down his teammates and is itching at the chance to make it up to them... This weekend is the perfect opportunity, if the Sox can give him save situations.

S### Happens. Go get em, Shingo.

Jjav829
04-08-2005, 04:38 PM
Lest anyone get the impression otherwise, I think Shingo is the best closer we've had since Roberto Hernandez, or maybe even Bobby Thigpen. Shingo has a hundred different looks and a dozen different pitches. Unlike Foulke, none of the hitters can sit on just one pitch.
:thumbsup:

He blew the game yesterday. **** happens. He has earned the closer job and it's his for the forseeable future.

I don't know about that. You can sit on his fastball for sure. And since he likes to throw it as the first pitch, you're better off going up there hacking right away. Honestly, I didn't even see the pitch because I was typing in the chat, but I believe Belliard did just that.

I'm not going to panic now and say Shingo should be replaced. He's earned the right to be the closer. But he's on a much shorter leash than Rivera, Hoffman, Foulke, etc. Those guys can blow saves and not worry about losing their job. If Shingo continues to do this, then we have to consider replacing him. But reacting over one blown save is pointless.

While I would love to see us kick the Twins ass tonight, I wouldn't mind seeing Shingo get a save opportunity right away to see how he bounces back.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-08-2005, 04:47 PM
I don't know about that. You can sit on his fastball for sure. And since he likes to throw it as the first pitch, you're better off going up there hacking right away. ...

He throws his fastball at least 3 different ways. Which one are you going to sit on?
:?:

As for swinging on the first pitch, I hope every hitter he faces does just that. Statistically it's the worst hitter's pitch in the count. Go for it.
:cool:

ChiSoxRowand
04-08-2005, 04:56 PM
I believe Keith Foulke can be added to that list.

And Braden Looper.

Jjav829
04-08-2005, 04:56 PM
He throws his fastball at least 3 different ways. Which one are you going to sit on?
:?:

As for swinging on the first pitch, I hope every hitter he faces does just that. Statistically it's the worst hitter's pitch in the count. Go for it.
:cool:

Any fastball. You sit on his best fastball and adjust to any slower speeds. It's not like his fastball is overpowering if you are looking for it. If you sit on it and read it, you can hit it. This isn't Randy Johnson blowing straight fastballs right past people and it's not Mariano Rivera cutting, sinking and doing anything he can possibly do to do his fastball.

samram
04-08-2005, 04:57 PM
He throws his fastball at least 3 different ways. Which one are you going to sit on?
:?:

As for swinging on the first pitch, I hope every hitter he faces does just that. Statistically it's the worst hitter's pitch in the count. Go for it.
:cool:

Yeah, I think Belliard sat on the one that goes absolutely straight on the inner half, and lucky for him, he got it. If that pitch had any movement on it, Belliard probably hits a grounder to third, and Indians' fans are complaining that he swung at the first pitch.

I don't like it when Sox hitters waste at-bats by swinging at the first pitch, so why shouldn't I hope their opponents do just that? Swing away, Twinkies.

Blueprint1
04-08-2005, 04:58 PM
Wow we really like to freak out on this board. The only thing that makes me mad is that we can never seem to sweep a team. If Shingo can't close games we have other pitchers we know can. I think we should be willing to give Shingo another shot.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-08-2005, 05:02 PM
Any fastball. You sit on his best fastball and adjust to any slower speeds. It's not like his fastball is overpowering if you are looking for it. If you sit on it and read it, you can hit it. This isn't Randy Johnson blowing straight fastballs right past people and it's not Mariano Rivera cutting, sinking and doing anything he can possibly do to do his fastball.

Shingo doesn't have a "fast" ball. That's the point. He gets people out without a fastball. Shingo only blew two games last year not because he was flamethrowing. He only blew two games because nobody can catch up with all the looks he gives them.

He's the anti-Randy Johnson and he's the anti-Mariano Rivera, too. So why complain? Any pitcher who loses his control like Shingo did yesterday is going to be in trouble... even Randy and Mariano.
:?:

Shingo loses his control a lot less than most any other closer we've had these past 10 years, doubtlessly because he has more pitches he can throw for strikes than any Sox closer in recent memory.
:cool:

Ol' No. 2
04-08-2005, 05:17 PM
Shingo doesn't have a "fast" ball. That's the point. He gets people out without a fastball. Shingo only blew two games last year not because he was flamethrowing. He only blew two games because nobody can catch up with all the looks he gives them.

He's the anti-Randy Johnson and he's the anti-Mariano Rivera, too. So why complain? Any pitcher who loses his control like Shingo did yesterday is going to be in trouble... even Randy and Mariano.
:?:

Shingo loses his control a lot less than most any other closer we've had these past 10 years, doubtlessly because he has more pitches he can throw for strikes than any Sox closer in recent memory.
:cool:Correctamundo!! How long did it take the league to "figure out" Jamie Moyer? Billy Koch, even after he came to the Sox, managed to get up to the mid-90's. What good did it do him? Pitching has more to do with deception than just overpowering people. Shingo is the master at deception. Sit on the fastball and there's just no way to adjust to the frisbee. The key is not to become predictable.

Chisox003
04-08-2005, 06:40 PM
Rubbish. Any pitcher that is having trouble throwing strikes is going to get killed because when you're down 3-0 you have to throw the fastball. And there is only one pitcher I know of that throws a hard enough fastball that the batter can't hit it if he knows it's coming: Charlie Sheen.

Ok, but what counts went to 3-0 yesterday? Each hitter saw a few pitches, a few strikes, a few more balls, and finally when Belliard got up there...Poof, we're tied....ON 3 HR'S!!!

Im just saying that if Shingo is going to be used as a closer, it has to be sparingly, otherwise these hitters are going to be all over him....We play the central division teams 19 times EACH, and the Inidans have already seen him twice...The second time around, it was Hammer Time

Do you think they wont be ready Monday if he comes in? Theyll be drooling for Ozzie to make that call...

Well I wish shingo the best....I hope hes in there tonight in the 9th to lock it down (And if he is, ill be pulling my hair out)

Jjav829
04-08-2005, 06:55 PM
Shingo doesn't have a "fast" ball. That's the point. He gets people out without a fastball. Shingo only blew two games last year not because he was flamethrowing. He only blew two games because nobody can catch up with all the looks he gives them.

He's the anti-Randy Johnson and he's the anti-Mariano Rivera, too. So why complain? Any pitcher who loses his control like Shingo did yesterday is going to be in trouble... even Randy and Mariano.
:?:

Shingo loses his control a lot less than most any other closer we've had these past 10 years, doubtlessly because he has more pitches he can throw for strikes than any Sox closer in recent memory.
:cool:

What? He doesn't have a fastball? Of course he does. It's just a token fastball. That's been my point since you said there is no pitch that hitters facing Shingo can sit on. I disagreed and said you can sit on his fastball because it alone is not overpowering. What makes his fastball effective is his wide range of speeds. If you have to prepare for a 65 mph change, when you get the fastball it's harder to catch up to.

You must be remembering the wrong posts. I didn't complain once. All I did was challenge your statement that he has no pitch that you can sit on. I said he does have a pitch you can sit on and it's his fastball. Of course even when you get the fastball you still have to be able to read fastball and hit it, but that doesn't mean sitting on it can't help, particularly early in the count.

mealfred13
04-08-2005, 07:22 PM
Rubbish. Any pitcher that is having trouble throwing strikes is going to get killed because when you're down 3-0 you have to throw the fastball. And there is only one pitcher I know of that throws a hard enough fastball that the batter can't hit it if he knows it's coming: Charlie Sheen.

Hahahaha....WILD THING!