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View Full Version : Paul Konerko's defense late in games


Fake Chet Lemon
04-07-2005, 06:42 PM
Are Konerko's defensive skills that bad that Ozzie needs to pull him every 9th inning when we have the lead? It sure would have been nice to have him bat in this Indian game after the blown save. Not only do we lose Paulie, we lose the ability to bat Gload in the matchup we want because he's already in the game. I think we should leave Paulie in the game from here on out.

Infallible
04-07-2005, 06:48 PM
its either that or we get rid of Joe Crede and throw Gload in at third.

munchman33
04-07-2005, 06:48 PM
Not only does Paul Konerko have the worst defensive range in the league, he may just have the worst defensive range of all time. I've certainly never seen worse.

Jjav829
04-07-2005, 06:49 PM
It's not. I hope this doesn't end up like Manuel with Lee where Manuel always felt the need to put in Julio Ramirez or Chris Singleton or some scrub in the 9th inning to replace Lee. I wouldn't even call Konerko bad defensively, which some people claimed Lee was. I hope Ozzie comes to his senses and leaves Konerko in there from now on.

ChicagoHoosier
04-07-2005, 06:59 PM
Not only does Paul Konerko have the worst defensive range in the league, he may just have the worst defensive range of all time. I've certainly never seen worse.

Worse range than Frank Thomas at 1B?

daveeym
04-07-2005, 07:26 PM
It's not. I hope this doesn't end up like Manuel with Lee where Manuel always felt the need to put in Julio Ramirez or Chris Singleton or some scrub in the 9th inning to replace Lee. I wouldn't even call Konerko bad defensively, which some people claimed Lee was. I hope Ozzie comes to his senses and leaves Konerko in there from now on. I hear ya but i have this funny gut feeling that part of gload and 7 pitchers today was to get them some "work" in a game that looked to be rolling our way.

santo=dorf
04-07-2005, 07:46 PM
Not only does Paul Konerko have the worst defensive range in the league, he may just have the worst defensive range of all time. I've certainly never seen worse.
Mo Vaughn, Fred McGriff, David Ortiz, Carlos Delgado??? :?:

Konerko isn't that bad :rolleyes:

munchman33
04-07-2005, 08:14 PM
Worse range than Frank Thomas at 1B?

When Frank was an everyday first basemen, definately. Now, it's probably about even.

JRIG
04-07-2005, 08:48 PM
Nobody can turn the 3-6-3 double play better than Paul Konerko.

Or so I'm told by Hawk.

We will lose far more games by taking out Konerko than leaving him in and dealing with the miniscule effect defense at first base on the game.

Not to mention Gload is no David Segui around the bag.

JB98
04-07-2005, 08:49 PM
its either that or we get rid of Joe Crede and throw Gload in at third.

A left-handed throwing third baseman, huh? That would be a first since the days of Mike Squires.

Infallible
04-07-2005, 08:51 PM
that should've been teal.....or should it?:?:

mike squires
04-07-2005, 10:59 PM
I've seen Konerko make some nice diving snags. I've seen worse. In a close game in the late innings? I haven't seen enough of Gload there to make a determenation...

SoxFan76
04-07-2005, 11:09 PM
It's really annoying reading the posts around this board after a loss. What about opening day? You think Konerko makes that play to end the game? Hell no he doesn't. Defense is important. They had a 4 run lead going into the inning, and putting Gload in was the right move. Jesus, it's baseball. You aren't going to go 162-0. The game was winnable, but oh well. It's over. It happens, its baseball. As long as this isn't a regular occurence, we'll be fine.

Gosox1917
04-07-2005, 11:35 PM
He came in as a defensive replacement today at first base. Unfortunately, you a first basemen can't do too much to defend against three homeruns. It's debatable whether you leave him in or not because of Konerko's bat being taken out, but Gload did hit over .300 last year. I'll stick with Ozzie on this move, unless it keeps happening.

batmanZoSo
04-08-2005, 12:44 AM
Ozzie just gave a clinic on how to be a crappy manager today, that's all there is to it. Gload isn't David Segui, he's maybe slightly better than Konerko moving from side to side. Frankly, I'd rather have Konerko's unparalleled 3-6-3 ability out there in a closing situation, not to mention he's a 40 home run guy who happens to be on fire right now.

Nellie_Fox
04-08-2005, 12:59 AM
Second guessing is so easy. They entered the ninth with a nice lead. Gload is a considerable improvement defensively. It was the right move. You don't make your ninth inning moves based on planning to blow the lead and needing the bat later. Besides, do you really think Paulie was going to make the difference in overcoming that lead? Seriously?

If you guys are going to go out on the ledge after every loss, it's going to be a very long season for you.

munchman33
04-08-2005, 07:30 AM
Mo Vaughn, Fred McGriff, David Ortiz, Carlos Delgado??? :?:

Konerko isn't that bad :rolleyes:

People are deceived by Konerko because he isn't a huge guy, and he doesn't look awkward. But he's also considerably slower than those guys (yes, even Mo Vaughn) and his range is worse.

spawn
04-08-2005, 10:37 AM
Funny...I didn't see anyone complaining about taking Konerko out in the 1-0 win on opening day. And as I recall, Gload made a great play to end the game. I'm not saying Paulie wouldn't have made the play, but to second guess Ozzie on bringing in a defensive replacement when you have a 3 run lead in the ninth is a bit much. Once again, if Shingo doesn't blow the save, would we even be talking about this?:rolleyes:

munchman33
04-08-2005, 10:44 AM
I'm not saying Paulie wouldn't have made the play:rolleyes:

Well I am. Paul Konerko has no chance of reaching a ball not hit right at him. He has great hands, but zero range. Ozzie sees this. I applaude him.

Fake Chet Lemon
04-08-2005, 10:47 AM
It's really annoying reading the posts around this board after a loss. What about opening day? You think Konerko makes that play to end the game? Hell no he doesn't. Defense is important. They had a 4 run lead going into the inning, and putting Gload in was the right move. Jesus, it's baseball. You aren't going to go 162-0. The game was winnable, but oh well. It's over. It happens, its baseball. As long as this isn't a regular occurence, we'll be fine.

Regardless of when this was posted, I think it's a legitimate question to ask. I'm just not sold that Gload is such a defensive wizard that we should risk losing Paulie.

LauraJ14
04-08-2005, 11:17 AM
Well I am. Paul Konerko has no chance of reaching a ball not hit right at him. He has great hands, but zero range. Ozzie sees this. I applaude him.


Does Ozzie see that his top RBI and Homerun hitter is on the bench and didn't Konerko's spot come up in the 10th inning? One swing of Paulie's bat and game over.

DaleJRFan
04-08-2005, 11:59 AM
its either that or we get rid of Joe Crede and throw Gload in at third.

Why does everyone (well, not EVERYONE... but...) say to throw Gload in at third? He is lefthanded! Yeesh!

Palehose13
04-08-2005, 12:08 PM
Does Ozzie see that his top RBI and Homerun hitter is on the bench and didn't Konerko's spot come up in the 10th inning? One swing of Paulie's bat and game over.

With a three run lead there shouldn't have been a 10th inning. Blame the loss on Shingo...cause that's where the blame should go. And no, I am not pulling my support for him. I hope he is out there for the next save opportunity.

wdelaney72
04-08-2005, 12:55 PM
I seem to recall a game last year in the Twinkie dome where Paulie showed HORRIBLE glove work.

Yes, Gload is that much better. He's got better range and a better glove.

Rocklive99
04-09-2005, 02:00 AM
Did I miss the ceremony of Ross Gload's gold glove award? He made a nice play on Opening Day, but I'd still leave in PK everytime. If you're that worried about his defense, then you might as well DH him and let Gload start at 1st. Leads are going to be blown, that's our biggest bat in the lineup. I know it's easy to second guess, but then Ozzie couldn't do anything as Gload looked silly against a lefty

johnny_mostil
04-09-2005, 11:44 AM
Not only does Paul Konerko have the worst defensive range in the league, he may just have the worst defensive range of all time. I've certainly never seen worse.

You should get out more. Willie Aikens? Mo? Cecil Fielder? I can think of dozens of immobile first basemen I've seen over the 35 years I've been watching baseball.

johnny_mostil
04-09-2005, 11:45 AM
It's not. I hope this doesn't end up like Manuel with Lee where Manuel always felt the need to put in Julio Ramirez or Chris Singleton or some scrub in the 9th inning to replace Lee.

So did I. The "scrubs" he was putting in were CFers and Lee was pretty bad when her started playing. He made himself adequate but don't kid yourself, in 2000 he was Kittlesque.

JRIG
04-09-2005, 11:45 AM
You should get out more. Willie Aikens? Mo? Cecil Fielder? I can think of dozens of immobile first basemen I've seen over the 35 years I've been watching baseball.

David Ortiz, when he plays/played first base, is pathetic defensively.

munchman33
04-09-2005, 11:56 AM
I am yet to see a guy listed who would lose to Paulie in a footrace.

I hate when people just assume fat = slower than all.

Konerko is in great shape, but he's not faster than anyone. Ortiz, Fielder, anyone. Sure, he may be a better fielder than some of these guys. The other guys will commit more errors, and look terrible. But I've seen Paulie miss balls two feet away from him. Consistently. Having his bat is great, but having him in the field really hurts the team. He should be DHing.

Rocklive99
04-09-2005, 01:00 PM
I am yet to see a guy listed who would lose to Paulie in a footrace.

I hate when people just assume fat = slower than all.

Konerko is in great shape, but he's not faster than anyone.

He's not playing CF...

owensmouth
04-09-2005, 04:34 PM
I am yet to see a guy listed who would lose to Paulie in a footrace.

I hate when people just assume fat = slower than all.

Konerko is in great shape, but he's not faster than anyone. Ortiz, Fielder, anyone. Sure, he may be a better fielder than some of these guys. The other guys will commit more errors, and look terrible. But I've seen Paulie miss balls two feet away from him. Consistently. Having his bat is great, but having him in the field really hurts the team. He should be DHing.Remember the triple play last year? Benjie Molina is a half step slower than Paulie.

munchman33
04-09-2005, 04:36 PM
Remember the triple play last year? Benjie Molina is a half step slower than Paulie.

And he doesn't play first base. :?:

munchman33
04-09-2005, 04:37 PM
He's not playing CF...

This team was remade for defense. Konerko sticks out like a sore thumb.

SoxFan76
04-09-2005, 04:39 PM
This team was remade for defense. Konerko sticks out like a sore thumb.

If he puts up numbers like he did last year, I think I can forgive him.

TaylorStSox
04-09-2005, 08:52 PM
I am yet to see a guy listed who would lose to Paulie in a footrace.

I hate when people just assume fat = slower than all.

Konerko is in great shape, but he's not faster than anyone. Ortiz, Fielder, anyone. Sure, he may be a better fielder than some of these guys. The other guys will commit more errors, and look terrible. But I've seen Paulie miss balls two feet away from him. Consistently. Having his bat is great, but having him in the field really hurts the team. He should be DHing.

Since when does speed = range at first base. Quickness is a bigger factor. I'm not saying that PK has good range but I have more range than Fielder and Ortiz and I have a broken leg.

gobears1987
04-09-2005, 09:49 PM
If anyone saw the 9th today, that's why Ozzie makes the move.

peeonwrigley
04-09-2005, 09:50 PM
If anyone saw the 9th today, that's why Ozzie makes the move.

Yep, a lefty (Gload) isn't reaching across his body to make the play in the hole.

Jjav829
04-09-2005, 09:51 PM
If anyone saw the 9th today, that's why Ozzie makes the move.

I'm against the move, but the one exception I would make is for games on turf. If Ozzie wants to make the move for games on turf, I'm fine with that. Otherwise, I'm against it.

fquaye149
04-09-2005, 09:58 PM
Since when does speed = range at first base. Quickness is a bigger factor. I'm not saying that PK has good range but I have more range than Fielder and Ortiz and I have a broken leg.

well I have more range than PK and I am sitting down.

CWSGuy406
04-09-2005, 10:00 PM
If anyone saw the 9th today, that's why Ozzie makes the move.

I agree. I don't want to sound whiney, but Gload makes that play.

Who cares, though? We won, good enough for me... :smile:

Fake Chet Lemon
04-09-2005, 10:14 PM
Isn't range at First base a little over-rated? Up the middle yes, or course.

munchman33
04-10-2005, 12:18 AM
Isn't range at First base a little over-rated? Up the middle yes, or course.

Tell that to our pitchers, who have seen numerous runs score because Paul doesn't have the instincts to react to balls two feet away from him.

mealfred13
04-10-2005, 01:55 AM
In hindsight, I'm glad Paulie missed that diving attempt off his glove today. It lead to the removal of Politte and got Shingo an easy save, which may have been just what the doctor ordered to keep him confident.

That's not to say that I don't like seeing Gload out there in the 9th, but I don't think it's a move that needs to be done every day.