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Jjav829
04-06-2005, 05:01 PM
YYEEEESSSS!!!! :bandance: :bandance: :gulp: :supernana: :bandance:

RedHeadPaleHoser
04-06-2005, 05:02 PM
WHEW...a close one!!

Nard
04-06-2005, 05:02 PM
Hey-ooooooooooooooooooooh

Brian26
04-06-2005, 05:02 PM
Wow. Where the hell did that comeback come from?

Reminds me a lot of the April comeback against the Royals last year.

:winner

SoxWillWin
04-06-2005, 05:02 PM
that's a white sox winner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

duke of dorwood
04-06-2005, 05:02 PM
Woo Hoo-and well managed in the 9th-:D: :D: :D: :D: :D: :bandance:

Flight #24
04-06-2005, 05:02 PM
Nicest thing about this win: This is a game we lose last year. In fact, I think last year we might have been in Cleveland's position.

SoxWillWin
04-06-2005, 05:03 PM
Wow. Where the hell did that comeback come from?

Reminds me a lot of the April comeback against the Royals last year.

:winner
Ozzie Ball, with a little help from the long ball:D:

Church Turtle
04-06-2005, 05:03 PM
how many ways can a guy type I LOVE IT! YESSSS!

PaleHoseGeorge
04-06-2005, 05:03 PM
:ozzie
"Small ball (and an error) wins another one! Screw the homers!"

mrwag
04-06-2005, 05:03 PM
Man, I had that one written off to corpseball. Where'd that come from? We'll take it tho!

ma_deuce
04-06-2005, 05:03 PM
:indianslose

gobears1987
04-06-2005, 05:03 PM
This was like last April's game against Cleveland. Wow!!!

LongLiveFisk
04-06-2005, 05:04 PM
They were losing until I put the game on here at work just in time for Konerko's homer....

I'm such good luck! :tongue:

voodoochile
04-06-2005, 05:04 PM
um... wow...:D:

bigsoxfan420
04-06-2005, 05:05 PM
looks like small ball won't get it done by itself

Chrisaway
04-06-2005, 05:05 PM
Yeahhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!

NSSoxFan
04-06-2005, 05:05 PM
This was like last April's game against Cleveland. Wow!!!

Yes it was, except weren't we down 9-3 in that game? Either way, this was an amazing game.

162-0 still possible.

Baby Fisk
04-06-2005, 05:05 PM
The Undefeated Season continues!I'm so freakin stoked right now I'm getting Ordoņez-like dizzy spells. :bandance:

Rocklive99
04-06-2005, 05:05 PM
I told yall in the thread, we have good hitters, the long ball will come, it's too early to worry, we're gonna be alright :p :D: I just had a feelin going into the 9th, great inning to watch!

Palehose13
04-06-2005, 05:06 PM
Wow. Just wow.

Kudos to Willie Harris. Everyone knows how much I love the guy, but he came out and did his job...didn't try to do anything more. That's the way TEAM baseball is played!

Unregistered
04-06-2005, 05:06 PM
Hell yes!

For a while there it was looking like we weren't going to score 4 runs THIS WEEK.

Huge win.

stillz
04-06-2005, 05:06 PM
Yes!!! A series victory to start the season! 2-0 in 1 run games! Konerko on a roll!:D: Go Sox!

nasox
04-06-2005, 05:06 PM
I've never had so much fun in a chat room. And to think, I left twice only to come back to chat.:bandance: :bandance: :bandance: :gulp: :gulp: :D: :cool: :supernana: :)

Tekijawa
04-06-2005, 05:07 PM
Magic Number 160

Rocky Soprano
04-06-2005, 05:07 PM
looks like small ball won't get it done by itself

And the long ball won't get it done by itself either.

I love the TEAM baseball that they are playing. The Pitching did their job, the defense was pretty good. And they did what they had to do to get the W! :gulp:

nodiggity59
04-06-2005, 05:07 PM
The Sox are now 2-0 in games where they haven't been hitting well. Say what you will about our offense, but the pitching is there. Only 1 run given up by the pen!

Shoeless Joe
04-06-2005, 05:07 PM
Wow we got to their horrible bullpen just in time! And how about those clutch HR's by Konerko and Dye? I love it! Keep the wins coming no matter how they come. Most importantly we already won a series against a division foe. Now let's win the rubber match tomorrow and get after those Twins!

patbooyah
04-06-2005, 05:07 PM
:ozzie
"Small ball (and an error) wins another one! Screw the homers!"

we would have won if he had made that play- he was going to go to first.

RKMeibalane
04-06-2005, 05:07 PM
**** Magglio Ordonez! Jermaine Dye is our right fielder now.

Palehose13
04-06-2005, 05:08 PM
looks like small ball won't get it done by itself

*Yawn*

Most people here know that the 2005 Sox still have power hitters. Stop believeing everyhting you read, this team still has boppers.

MRKARNO
04-06-2005, 05:08 PM
Wow. Where the hell did that comeback come from?

Reminds me a lot of the April comeback against the Royals last year.

:winner

I could swear that we had about 4 comeback games like that last April.

:indianslose

harwar
04-06-2005, 05:08 PM
Thats a nightmare revisited for the tribe.Last year their bullpen blew one game after another that they should have won.

samram
04-06-2005, 05:09 PM
Good to see Cleveland addressed those bullpen problems.:D: Great way to start the year for the good guys.

voodoochile
04-06-2005, 05:09 PM
Great start to the season...

First 1-0 win in forever and now a ninth inning comeback against a guy who has given us fits in the past.

I am liking it more and more...:gulp:

CubKilla
04-06-2005, 05:09 PM
Man, I had that one written off to corpseball. Where'd that come from? We'll take it tho!

You're not the only one

Ol' No. 2
04-06-2005, 05:09 PM
Will you guys quit arguing about small ball vs. long ball and just enjoy the win, already????

Besides, this is NOT a smallball team, despite what you may have heard from uninformed mediots. They still have plenty of power, but what they have that they lacked last year is balance. We saw it in the 9th.

WooHoo!!!!

ChiSox7
04-06-2005, 05:09 PM
I think Hawk would say it best......

MERCY!!!!!!

SomebodyToldMe
04-06-2005, 05:09 PM
Great ending to an otherwise extremely boring game. I nearly fell asleep during it, but boy howdy, that's what I call a comeback.

SoxSpeed22
04-06-2005, 05:09 PM
looks like small ball won't get it done by itself
:welcome:
Obviously small ball doesn't work if you can't get on base. Having balance is good and we can start our Cleveland "Blown Saves" count.
1!
:supernana: 2-0:supernana:

mdep524
04-06-2005, 05:09 PM
Wow. Who saw THAT coming?

I was actually laughing out loud watching poor Wickman. He couldn't get anything right! Hit, HR, HR, double, error... it all happened in like 30 seconds!!

:bandance: :bandance:

Palehose13
04-06-2005, 05:09 PM
Wow we got to their horrible bullpen just in time! And how about those clutch HR's by Konerko and Dye? I love it! Keep the wins coming no matter how they come. Most importantly we already won a series against a division foe. Now let's win the rubber match tomorrow and get after those Twins!

:?: Rubber Match tomorrow? They won today. Tomorrow is not a rubber match.

Iwritecode
04-06-2005, 05:10 PM
I said it Monday and I have to say it again today...

Damn this team looks like the one that calls the Humpdome home! With games like these last year the Sox would have been 0 -2 instead of 2 - 0.

It's still great to see though!!! :D: :D: :D:

owensmouth
04-06-2005, 05:10 PM
Is that the first time in two years that, with runners on 1st and 2d with no outs, we got a bunt down to move them over?

HebrewHammer
04-06-2005, 05:10 PM
The perfect cure to a dreadful day at work.

This calls for a Super-Nana!

:supernana: :supernana: :supernana:

:gulp:

mjharrison72
04-06-2005, 05:11 PM
I just had to have a quick chat with the two top people at my company (they came to MY office) and my heart is still racing from this amazing show of heart... Do or die, fellas!

:winner (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=8#)

WikdChiSoxFan
04-06-2005, 05:11 PM
Bring out your brooms baby!!!!


You know what I love? I love sitting in in studio in Crown Hall just listening to the fireworks...then telling my professor to hold on a sec...fumble to bring gameday back up, hear another round of fireworks...then just wait and listen patiently for the inevitable...

That's a White Sox winner!!!
All right, now to give the guy from cleveland in my studio a little crap, and then trying to salvage what respect i had from my professer...

I'll see you all at tomorrows game!!!!

Tragg
04-06-2005, 05:11 PM
And I actually got to see it!
It was on WGN, finally, and I got home in time to watch the 9th.

Maybe tomorrow we can get a piece of Bob Howry.

BigEdWalsh
04-06-2005, 05:11 PM
Crazy. Unbelievable. I'm kinda stunned...in a GOOD way. :o:

I feel like dancing!! :supernana: :bandance: :supernana:

RKMeibalane
04-06-2005, 05:11 PM
Get the brooms ready for Thursday, folks!

JUribe1989
04-06-2005, 05:11 PM
Win or Die Trying everybody!! Now we know it's true!
:supernana:

mike squires
04-06-2005, 05:11 PM
If Dick Enberg was announcing he would have said...

Oh My.....

1917
04-06-2005, 05:12 PM
I'm watching it at work, I give up and go have a smoke, come back and they win 4-3! Who says smoking is bad for you....Winning Really Ugly and Loving It!

Shoeless Joe
04-06-2005, 05:12 PM
:?: Rubber Match tomorrow? They won today. Tomorrow is not a rubber match.

Yikes! Sorry about that, I guess I'm just a little amped with the win. But still let's get the win tomorrow.

spawn
04-06-2005, 05:12 PM
looks like small ball won't get it done by itself
This is the biggest misconception of this team, and it's really starting to piss me off. Last year, all we had to rely on was the longball. This year, we have a nice mix of power and speed. Yeah, we lost Carlos and Maggs, but we now have Dye, who could hit 20+ homers, Konerko hit 40, Rowand, Urbie, and Crede all hit 20+ last year. The long ball didn't do it the last few years. You need a good mix. I think we have a good mix. To all those saying 'screw small ball', did you think we weren't gonna hit any homers this year?

SouthSideSid
04-06-2005, 05:12 PM
Just what a team needs early to know they are a collection of WINNERS.

na_na_na_na
04-06-2005, 05:13 PM
The people in my office now officially think I am crazy. What an Inning.

SOXit2EM
04-06-2005, 05:13 PM
Great game plan by Sox today. Lull Indians pitcher's too sleep through 8 innings, Pitch just well enough too win, and Surprise Wickman in 9th. Works for me. :D:

owensmouth
04-06-2005, 05:13 PM
I said it Monday and I have to say it again today...

Damn this team looks like the one that calls the Humpdome home! With games like these last year the Sox would have been 0 -2 instead of 2 - 0.

It's still great to see though!!! :D: :D: :D:

Wrong...last year we were something like 10-0 early in one run games.

mantis1212
04-06-2005, 05:13 PM
Will you guys quit arguing about small ball vs. long ball and just enjoy the win, already????

Besides, this is NOT a smallball team, despite what you may have heard from uninformed mediots. They still have plenty of power, but what they have that they lacked last year is balance. We saw it in the 9th.

WooHoo!!!!

Actually, the plan was: innings one through eight = small ball.

If we're losing in the ninth, THEN we hit homers:D:

RKMeibalane
04-06-2005, 05:13 PM
Win or Die Trying everybody!! Now we know it's true!
:supernana:

After today, perhaps it should read: Win or Dye Trying!

MRKARNO
04-06-2005, 05:13 PM
It doesn't matter when you get, but just that you get them. It just so happened that Wickman forgot how to get hitters out. His only out came on Uribe's sac fly. :D:

His ERA is now at 108.00

I was kinda feeling comeback to be quite honest. 3-4-5 hitters coming up and they hadnt been doing much (except Pauly) so far this year. It's also April and last April I recall a boatload of comebacks and 1-run wins. Thankfully I got home just in time to see the ninth inning.

Palehose13
04-06-2005, 05:14 PM
Yikes! Sorry about that, I guess I'm just a little amped with the win. But still let's get the win tomorrow.

No problem. A sweep will be nice...I'll take a win tomorrow. :wink:

Infallible
04-06-2005, 05:15 PM
What makes that win even better is that Bob Wickman is from Green Bay, WI. Sorry but I just love it when that town gets beat down from all angles.

harwar
04-06-2005, 05:15 PM
Damn this team looks like the one that calls the Humpdome home!

Yes,i've been saying for a hour now that i've seen this before but everyone said,no your dreaming.
I just knew i had seen this before.
With the Xtra innings package i watch a lot of twins games and i saw them win one game after another right at the end when you thought they were done for.

Blueprint1
04-06-2005, 05:15 PM
No problem. A sweep will be nice...I'll take a win tomorrow. :wink:

I hope that we can. We didnt manage to sweep many teams last year at all. I hope we can start to do that.

Whitesox029
04-06-2005, 05:16 PM
WOO HOO!!!! :bandance::bandance::gulp:
:winner
I have Wickman in one of my fantasy leagues, but I'll take on the ERA for a 2-0 record...besides, I have PK in about 3 of my leagues, so it's all good.

mccombe_35
04-06-2005, 05:16 PM
please tell me this game is being replayed tonight. Anybody?

Troupis
04-06-2005, 05:16 PM
I got home from work just in time to hear DJ say:

"Bob Wickman is not known for giving up the long ba-"

"He looks up, you can put it on the board - YES!"

(Repeat second quote twice) YES!

FightingBillini
04-06-2005, 05:16 PM
:Rocker:
:wh1tesox00:winner:indianslose

Did anybody else notice how it took Hawk like 40 seconds to say YES after the winning run scored?
:hawk
(All in one breath) "There is a drive to right, way back, and he makes the catch. Aaron is taggin up, and the Sox will score. After a single, two homers, a double, a walk, and a sacrifice fly, the Sox have scored four runs this inning. Seeing as the Indians have only scored 3 and it is the bottom of the ninth the SOX WIN IT FOUR TO THREEEEEEEEE YES!!

Kogs35
04-06-2005, 05:17 PM
WHOO HOOO :bandance: :bandance: :bandance: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :bandance: :gulp:

MERPER
04-06-2005, 05:17 PM
Whoever said we were going exclusively small ball? This team has such a solid mix right now.... 2 earned runs in 2 games.... I like it....

oeo
04-06-2005, 05:18 PM
All I can say is that before the ninth inning, I was thinking, "Wow, this is going to be a long year if these guys don't start hitting." Next thing I know, Everett is on first, Konerko hits a bomb, then Jermaine, OHH YEAH!

Oh, and BTW, we have no power now?

:bandance::supernana::bandance:

Iwritecode
04-06-2005, 05:18 PM
Wrong...last year we were something like 10-0 early in one run games.

I was talking about the fact that they didn't win a single game last year when only scoring one run (like on Monday) and won few, if any, games by putting up 4-spot in the ninth inning after not getting anything going for the first 8 innings...

Baby Fisk
04-06-2005, 05:18 PM
I got home from work just in time to hear DJ say:

"Bob Wickman is not known for giving up the long ba-"

"He looks up, you can put it on the board - YES!"

(Repeat second quote twice) YES!


:rolling: Ha ha ha ha ha! This is easily the DJ Quote of the Year 2005! That man is a walking jinx machine. He's gonna eat a lot of paper this year. :bandance:

JGarlandrules20
04-06-2005, 05:18 PM
Wow. That was crazy.

Props to Willie for his amazing sacrafice bunt! :bandance:

gosox3072
04-06-2005, 05:19 PM
The last 2 games have been terrible for me at school.............Monday, even though we had an inclass assignment, i decided to skip lecture that day for the game( i ended up going to my 75 minuite class 50 late, but still did the assignment).............and today i went to drop off a paper that was due and came back to watch the game because i had a "feeling"...........YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

:gulp: This one is for me getting the same feeling the rest of the year!!!!!!!:redneck

I want Mags back
04-06-2005, 05:20 PM
Who said this team wont hit alot homers. That was possibly the best 9th inning ive ever seen. And Konerko was my pick to click, YES!

WhiteSox16K
04-06-2005, 05:20 PM
Baseball's back, and we're 2-0. That 9th inning was a mix of everything. That's what is starting to grow on me about this team.

voodoochile
04-06-2005, 05:20 PM
please tell me this game is being replayed tonight. Anybody?

Watch Sportscenter, I bet they show the Sox ninth and what more do you need to see?

I doubt it will be rebroadcast as it was on WGN.

owensmouth
04-06-2005, 05:21 PM
Basically we got some pretty good pitching today, and some very good pitching the day before yesterday. Like last year, we had to wait for someone who was not on his game. Haven't seen Wickman collapse like that for several years.

Decent fielding. but not what I'd call excellent. Paulie made a less than steller play in the first, Crede dropped a simple grounder, and of course there was that balk with runners on 2d and third...

harwar
04-06-2005, 05:22 PM
Man -O - manishevitz
I went from gazing at the lake in near suicidal langour to an intensely positive excitement that leads to the apex of sublime satisfaction.
Can't wait for tomorrows' game!!!

PaleHoseGeorge
04-06-2005, 05:22 PM
You can't win unless you score. I would have thought this was beyond debate after today's ninth inning. Of course Ozzie's Legion of Luddites still thinks the bunt was the key play for the win... un-beelee-bubble...

Ah, the long ball... As Ozzie and KW will tell you, the Sox have won 26 world championships downplaying dingers going all the way back to the Golden Age of the Bambino... oh, wait!

:cool:

wilburaga
04-06-2005, 05:23 PM
It doesn't matter when you get, but just that you get them. It just so happened that Wickman forgot how to get hitters out. His only out came on Uribe's sac fly. :D:

His ERA is now at 108.00

I got a chill looking at that 108.00 ERA. And then I remebered - Jose Paniagua, 2003.


W

yoester
04-06-2005, 05:24 PM
Great comeback! Great game!


Wedge got outmanaged by Ozzie. Walking Pierzinski to set up Harris's bunt. If Wedge was smart he'd go after Pierzinski, get the out, then face Crede with 1 out and a man on second. We'd probably go extra innings.

voodoochile
04-06-2005, 05:24 PM
You can't win unless you score. I would have thought this was beyond debate after today's ninth inning. Of course Ozzie's Legion of Luddites still thinks the bunt was the key play for the win... un-beelee-bubble...

Ah, the long ball... As Ozzie and KW will tell you, the Sox have won 26 world championships downplaying dingers going all the way back to Golden Age of the Bambino... oh, wait!

:cool:

I have to agree... Not a big fan of the PinchBunter. I would have preferred they leave Crede in and pinch ran Willie for AJ then tried a double steal on the first pitch. If Rowand is out, they still have Willie at 2B with one away.

It worked. That's cool. Don't do it again... IIRC, Crede is a decent bunter too...

Iwritecode
04-06-2005, 05:24 PM
Basically we got some pretty good pitching today, and some very good pitching the day before yesterday. Like last year, we had to wait for someone who was not on his game. Haven't seen Wickman collapse like that for several years.

Decent fielding. but not what I'd call excellent. Paulie made a less than steller play in the first, Crede dropped a simple grounder, and of course there was that balk with runners on 2d and third...

Way to be be excited about an exciting win...

Homefish, is that you?

Lip?

Jerry Seinfeld
04-06-2005, 05:25 PM
Whoa...What a game. If the Sox continue to win like this in division games, this season will be a great one. :notoons:

Ol' No. 2
04-06-2005, 05:26 PM
Way to be be excited about an exciting win...

Homefish, is that you?

Lip?These guys must go the the racetrack together and place bets on which horse is going to lose.

SpringfldFan
04-06-2005, 05:26 PM
Friends, that ninth inning comes down to this: Small ball alone wasn't going to win that game. Likewise, long ball alone wasn't going to win it either.


That about sums up what this team is about :smile:


SFF

na_na_na_na
04-06-2005, 05:27 PM
FYI MLB.com gamecast is only in the 7th inning if you want to relive the glory.

owensmouth
04-06-2005, 05:27 PM
Way to be be excited about an exciting win...

Homefish, is that you?

Lip?

Nope.

wmusox9
04-06-2005, 05:28 PM
What a comeback, I'll take the stress everday if I could feel this good after it.
Don't forget to watch baseballl tonight they know what their talking about.
Under the radar gotta love this team.
Go Sox!
and M's for another day.

voodoochile
04-06-2005, 05:28 PM
Friends, that ninth inning comes down to this: Small ball alone wasn't going to win that game. Likewise, long ball alone wasn't going to win it either.


That about sums up what this team is about :smile:


SFF

Long ball contributed a HECK of a lot more than small ball, especially if you include the drives by Rowand and Uribe both of which nearly tagged the wall and were DEEP on the warning track...

spawn
04-06-2005, 05:28 PM
Great comeback! Great game!


Wedge got outmanaged by Ozzie. Walking Pierzinski to set up Harris's bunt. If Wedge was smart he'd go after Pierzinski, get the out, then face Crede with 1 out and a man on second. We'd probably go extra innings.
The way Wickman was pitching, he obviously didn't feel comfortable with him pitching to AJ. That said, he should've known Ozzie was gonna bunt the runners over. As a matter of fact, I'd bet money Ozzie would've had AJ bunting if not for the intentional walk. Anyway, an exciting win. I can't wait to watch the highlights!

OH!foracold1
04-06-2005, 05:30 PM
Gotta love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now for a COLD one :gulp:

WINNING UGLY.......

It's contagious

:bandance: :bandance: :bandance:

Baby Fisk
04-06-2005, 05:30 PM
These guys must go the the racetrack together and place bets on which horse is going to lose.
It must be said: POTW! :cheers:

Anyone who can't feel a surge of euphoria after this win probably can't feel their pulse either.

h00sierjoe
04-06-2005, 05:30 PM
Ah, got home just as the ninth inning got started! Let's get the sweep then go take care of the Twinkies!

SoxWillWin
04-06-2005, 05:30 PM
How many people left the ball park in the bottom of the eigth only to hear what they missed on the radio in the car????????

Whitesox029
04-06-2005, 05:32 PM
I got a chill looking at that 108.00 ERA. And then I remebered - Jose Paniagua, 2003.


W
What about Damaso Marte, April 5 2004?

:walnuts
"Don't let me influence your PTC call, Daver."

voodoochile
04-06-2005, 05:32 PM
:tomatoaward

30 minutes for a tomato... not bad at all...

MRKARNO
04-06-2005, 05:33 PM
You can't win unless you score. I would have thought this was beyond debate after today's ninth inning. Of course Ozzie's Legion of Luddites still thinks the bunt was the key play for the win... un-beelee-bubble...

Ah, the long ball...

This team was never really about small ball, despite statements to the contrary by Ozzie and Kenny Williams. We're still gonna have the long ball and we'll have plenty of doubles this year (more than last year). We're also going to have more steals and hit and run and such, but it's not so much a move from big ball to small ball as the move from big ball to a balanced offensive attack. The 2003 Marlins were the same way, but their 1-2 hitters were better than ours (unless Iguchi turns out well. I dont think we're going to see great things from Podsednik this year).

FightingBillini
04-06-2005, 05:33 PM
You can't win unless you score. I would have thought this was beyond debate after today's ninth inning. Of course Ozzie's Legion of Luddites still thinks the bunt was the key play for the win... un-beelee-bubble...

Ah, the long ball... As Ozzie and KW will tell you, the Sox have won 26 world championships downplaying dingers going all the way back to the Golden Age of the Bambino... oh, wait!

:cool:

:?:You just dont get it, do you?

PHG, you have probably watched as much Sox baseball as anyone the last four years. You know that the power didn't get it done. Don't let this ninth inning fool you. Think of it like this... the first 8 innings the Sox hit almost nothing, and in the ninth they hit bombs. The last few years they could lose 8 games scoring 2 runs a game, and then score 14 runs in the ninth game.
Nobody here is saying we should get rid of ALL of our homerun hitters. If you believe that we have, you are reading too much Dave Van Dyck. The Sox will still hit well over 200 homers this year, and they should score more consistantly than last year. You may argue they only got rid of Lee because they were cheap, but they needed a Pods type player. They needed a leadoff hitter and a good righty reliever, and they got it well creating more payroll room. KW didn't "dump all the power" as you seem to think, but he did add more players who wouldn't hit all or nothing.

NonetheLoaiza
04-06-2005, 05:33 PM
What about Damaso Marte, April 5 2004?

:walnuts
"Don't let me influence your PTC call, Daver."

Wasn't his ERA that day INF? I don't remember him recording an out. But I could be wrong, as I want to forget that day...

ChiSox14305635
04-06-2005, 05:34 PM
:tomatoaward

In less than 30 minutes. Wow. Just.......wow. :bandance:

elrod
04-06-2005, 05:35 PM
Wickman sucks.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-06-2005, 05:35 PM
Friends, that ninth inning comes down to this: Small ball alone wasn't going to win that game. Likewise, long ball alone wasn't going to win it either.


That about sums up what this team is about :smile:


SFF

Pfft... if anything this game proves the importance of having a superior PITCHING STAFF. Cleveland's completely melted down in the ninth inning. Even the extra run they picked up in the top-half of the inning wasn't enough to save the Tribe from their own pitching staff's faults.

Yeah, but go ahead believing the myth that small ball won this game.

:kukoo:

soxwon
04-06-2005, 05:35 PM
http://espn-i.starwave.com/media/apphoto/ILNH10304062128_thumbnail.jpeg (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/photos?photoId=721273&gameId=250406104)
Bob wickman after the loss. LOL LOL LOL LOL

You gots to Believe
Da Sox Are UNBELLIAVBLE>

spawn
04-06-2005, 05:36 PM
I think what I liked the most so far from these two games is we've held the vaunted Indians offense to 3 runs in 2 games. Good if not great pitching today. The way the pundits were talking, Cleveland was supposed to pound us into submission. Looking forward to what Contreras has to offer tomorrow.

ChiSox7
04-06-2005, 05:36 PM
[/color]

This team was never really about small ball, despite statements to the contrary by Ozzie and Kenny Williams. We're still gonna have the long ball and we'll have plenty of doubles this year (more than last year). We're also going to have more steals and hit and run and such, but it's not so much a move from big ball to small ball as the move from big ball to a balanced offensive attack. The 2003 Marlins were the same way, but their 1-2 hitters were better than ours (unless Iguchi turns out well. I dont think we're going to see great things from Podsednik this year).

I was extremely encouraged by both Scott and Iguchi today. Scotty hit the ball hard three times, but only got 1 hit out of it. Iguchi got on base twice with a double and a walk. I thought both looked much better today.

Unregistered
04-06-2005, 05:36 PM
Great comeback! Great game!


Wedge got outmanaged by Ozzie. Walking Pierzinski to set up Harris's bunt. If Wedge was smart he'd go after Pierzinski, get the out, then face Crede with 1 out and a man on second. We'd probably go extra innings.The way Wickman was throwing, Wedge couldn't afford to have him pitch to anyone. I was actually surprised he left him in to face Uribe, considering they had a guy warming up in the pen following Dye's home run.

CPditka
04-06-2005, 05:38 PM
thats a whitesox rally cap winner, YEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSS!!!!

Shorty1983
04-06-2005, 05:39 PM
That's why you have to stick with the team to the end.

Truely, the come back kings. Still Amazed.

:bandance: :supernana: :bandance:

FightingBillini
04-06-2005, 05:40 PM
Pfft... if anything this game proves the importance of having a superior PITCHING STAFF. Cleveland's completely melted down in the ninth inning. Even the extra run they picked up in the top-half of the inning wasn't enough to save the Tribe from their own pitching staff's faults.

Yeah, but go ahead believing the myth that small ball won this game.

:kukoo:

I don't think people are claiming smallball won the game. The homers did. However, the homers can't win every game. Or more accurately, the homers can't win enough games to take the division.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-06-2005, 05:40 PM
:?:You just dont get it, do you?...

Actually, I get it perfectly. If the Sox win more in 2005 than they did in 2004, it will be because the pitching staff is infinitely better than it used to be, especially the starting 5.

Bunt bunt bunt your way right to third place. Without the arms, the Sox suck. We gave up power to get the arms. Small ball is the necessity of this design... not the goal!

:kukoo:

santo=dorf
04-06-2005, 05:41 PM
What about Damaso Marte, April 5 2004?
His was infinity.

BTW, the Sox have the best record in the MLB thanks to Rivera! :supernana:

Mickster
04-06-2005, 05:42 PM
We gave up power to get the arms. Small ball is the necessity of this design... not the goal!

:kukoo:

Bullseye! :thumbsup:

PaleHoseGeorge
04-06-2005, 05:42 PM
I don't think people are claiming smallball won the game. The homers did. However, the homers can't win every game. Or more accurately, the homers can't win enough games to take the division.

Let's say it together.

P-I-T-C-H-I-N-G
W-I-N-S
B-A-L-L-G-A-M-E-S.

Not jacks. Not defense. And definitely not bunts.

You don't believe me? Ask any Cleveland fan.

yoester
04-06-2005, 05:43 PM
[QUOTE=Whitesox029]What about Damaso Marte, April 5 2004?



His e.r.a. was 0.00. He didn't record an out that game.

Mickster
04-06-2005, 05:44 PM
[QUOTE=Whitesox029]What about Damaso Marte, April 5 2004?



His e.r.a. was 0.00. He didn't record an out that game.

Nope. His era was infinity.

batmanZoSo
04-06-2005, 05:46 PM
Watch Sportscenter, I bet they show the Sox ninth and what more do you need to see?

I doubt it will be rebroadcast as it was on WGN.

Really, what more do you need to see. The game was a complete snoozer until the 9th, and literally for me. I fell asleep after Cotts came in to my shame and woke up as Konerko was rounding the bases. Hawks call woke me. I only got 4 hours last night and the Sox hitters just ulled me to sleep. But boy did I get up when I saw we were down by 1 with no outs.

Never seen Wickman get hit like that, just like Hawk said. Hard single, homer, homer, double. Beautiful bunt by Willie, even though he reached on a muff. That was still a perfect sacrifice and on the first pitch too. Talk about execution. Finally! Little things like that to win ballgames. Wickman was rattled, you could almost sense he'd botch it.

They worked Millwood nicely, who might have tossed a shutout otherwise, but he was preoccupied at times thanks to our speed.

Other observations on my long first Sox game of the year post...

Konerko is really locked in, you can just see it even before the homer. He had an at-bat earlier that ended up in a pop up stranding two, but that was simply great pitching by Millwood to fool him on 3-1 with a slider. The next pitch was a mediocre fastball but Konerko was befuddled as to what was coming so he popped it up. Still, you can sense when Konerko's on and luckily he is to start the season. We'll need that big until, oh, mid May or so.

Dye is clutch. I said it last night if he stays moderately healthy, we're really gonna like this guy. I already do. :cool:

Two games in and we're already playing like the Twins. Of course two games really means nothing, but we can't complain so far. We already won a game 1-0 and you need to be able to win those. We turned it on when we needed to just like Minnesota does, keeping our cool, knowing we're still in it. Wickman's not himself right now, that's obvious, but it takes two to tango. In years past, we normally let a pitcher like that get away with it. Not today.

And finally, the final play was a spitting image of Crede's walkoff hit last year against KC (or Cleveland) early on where he popped a long, bases loaded single to right over a drawn in outfield to win it to an elated Hawk chanting "tha'll get th' job dun!" Only this time it was only a sac fly. I'm sure I'm not the only one to recognize this, but I'm not scouring 100 posts to find out. :cool:

:hawk
What. A. Game. Mercy!

mantis1212
04-06-2005, 05:46 PM
Small ball is the necessity of this design... not the goal!

:kukoo:

You just quoted KW perfectly. He's been saying that, but the media hears "small ball, basestealing is the new strategy to win".

FightingBillini
04-06-2005, 05:46 PM
Let's say it together.

P-I-T-C-H-I-N-G
W-I-N-S
B-A-L-L-G-A-M-E-S.

Not jacks. Not defense. And definitely not bunts.

You don't believe me? Ask any Cleveland fan.

Yes, I agree that pitching is the key to winning now, as it was in any era of baseball. I think the Sox will win the division because they have a great pitching staff. However, there were several well pitched games the Sox lost in the last couple of years because everyone was swining for the fences with the team down a run or two. The Sox improved their pitching, offense, and defense this offseason.

MRKARNO
04-06-2005, 05:48 PM
:?:You just dont get it, do you?

PHG, you have probably watched as much Sox baseball as anyone the last four years. You know that the power didn't get it done. Don't let this ninth inning fool you. Think of it like this... the first 8 innings the Sox hit almost nothing, and in the ninth they hit bombs. The last few years they could lose 8 games scoring 2 runs a game, and then score 14 runs in the ninth game.
Nobody here is saying we should get rid of ALL of our homerun hitters. If you believe that we have, you are reading too much Dave Van Dyck. The Sox will still hit well over 200 homers this year, and they should score more consistantly than last year. You may argue they only got rid of Lee because they were cheap, but they needed a Pods type player. They needed a leadoff hitter and a good righty reliever, and they got it well creating more payroll room. KW didn't "dump all the power" as you seem to think, but he did add more players who wouldn't hit all or nothing.

It's not that the power didnt work, it's just that it didnt work in conjunction with our pitching staff. If we would have had the rotation we had now with the lineup of years past, we'd be in much better shape than we are in today. The White Sox, however, have budget restraints and can go either towards more hitting or towards more pitching, but not both. We discarded the more hitting concept and went toward balanced offense and more pitching. It's that simple.

DaveIsHere
04-06-2005, 05:50 PM
What was Hawk's call on the winnign hit like??

SOXSINCE'70
04-06-2005, 05:50 PM
As Ozzie would say,"Fung is winning and winning is fung".:D: :D: :D: :D:


Also: "Konerko and Dye are 'good keeds' ".:bandance: :bandance: :bandance:

FightingBillini
04-06-2005, 05:51 PM
Small ball is the necessity of this design... not the goal!

I agree. We needed to make our pitching staff better, and we had to rid of Lee along with the cripple and Stacheman to do it. However, this offense is better suited to win than our offense at the beginning of last year, provided they had the same pitching staff.

Mickster
04-06-2005, 05:53 PM
Yes, I agree that pitching is the key to winning now, as it was in any era of baseball. I think the Sox will win the division because they have a great pitching staff. However, there were several well pitched games the Sox lost in the last couple of years because everyone was swining for the fences with the team down a run or two. The Sox improved their pitching, offense, and defense this offseason.

The only reason that Lee is still not patrolling LF for the good guys is simple - we needed pitching and Milwaukee gave us 2 players that left us $6.5M on the deal allowing us to get a real starter. Since then, all we've heard is "small ball" this and "Ozzie ball" that and it all amounts to a hill of beans. Carlos is gone because we needed pitching. Not because KW or Ozzie wanted a .240 hitting leadoff man badly.

Our ERA the last 2 games? 1.50

Is that a result of small ball?

FightingBillini
04-06-2005, 05:54 PM
It's not that the power didnt work, it's just that it didnt work in conjunction with our pitching staff. If we would have had the rotation we had now with the lineup of years past, we'd be in much better shape than we are in today. The White Sox, however, have budget restraints and can go either towards more hitting or towards more pitching, but not both. We discarded the more hitting concept and went toward balanced offense and more pitching. It's that simple.
I disagree. I watched the power hitters go cold in too many close games. Lee's stats always looked good because he would go 5-6 when they scored 14 runs, and 0-4 the next two games, which were usually close. Our offense was all or nothing before, and it will be more consistent this year.

Ol' No. 2
04-06-2005, 05:56 PM
Let's say it together.

P-I-T-C-H-I-N-G
W-I-N-S
B-A-L-L-G-A-M-E-S.

Not jacks. Not defense. And definitely not bunts.

You don't believe me? Ask any Cleveland fan.A few minutes ago you were saying you can't win if you don't score. Of course pitching is the most important. I don't think anyone would argue that. But you still need offense, and I'll take a balanced offense over one loaded with sluggers any day.

FightingBillini
04-06-2005, 05:58 PM
The only reason that Lee is still not patrolling LF for the good guys is simple - we needed pitching and Milwaukee gave us 2 players that left us $6.5M on the deal allowing us to get a real starter. Since then, all we've heard is "small ball" this and "Ozzie ball" that and it all amounts to a hill of beans. Carlos is gone because we needed pitching. Not because KW or Ozzie wanted a .240 hitting leadoff man badly.

Our ERA the last 2 games? 1.50

Is that a result of small ball?

Well, KW need to make room on the payroll, and he needed to get players that would accomplish his objective. They had talked at the end of last season they would shift a little more toward small ball. As for Pods, you can call him a .314 hitter just as easily as a .244 hitter, seeing as he has done both in the majors. Im not saying that he will hit .314 this year, but I guarantee he will hit A LOT closer to that than to .244

PaleHoseGeorge
04-06-2005, 05:58 PM
The Sox improved their pitching, offense, and defense this offseason.

We improved our pitching which is HUGE.
We improved our offense??? You're nuts.
:kukoo:

We improved our defense? That's highly debatable and probably unmeasurable, too. Either way it's inconsequential compared to our pitching and offense.

MrKarno summarized it best. We gave up the steak in the middle of our line up and replaced it with hot dogs and hamburgers. Last year's line up matched with this year's pitching staff would have been a juggernaut-- the sort of team the South Side hasn't seen since 1917. Instead we're trying to get by with Small Ball because that's what we can afford.

We may win more in 2005, but it will be in spite of giving up power for small ball, not because of it!

:kukoo:

Mickster
04-06-2005, 06:00 PM
As for Pods, you can call him a .314 hitter just as easily as a .244 hitter, seeing as he has done both in the majors. Im not saying that he will hit .314 this year, but I guarantee he will hit A LOT closer to that than to .244

It remains to be seen.....

PaleHoseGeorge
04-06-2005, 06:03 PM
A few minutes ago you were saying you can't win if you don't score. Of course pitching is the most important. I don't think anyone would argue that. But you still need offense, and I'll take a balanced offense over one loaded with sluggers any day.

Fine. Run Schoenweis, Wright, and Grilli out there 3 out of every 5 days and see how many games you win with 2005's "balanced offense."

I'm guessing about 75.

:kukoo:

Sargeant79
04-06-2005, 06:04 PM
They were losing until I put the game on here at work just in time for Konerko's homer....

I'm such good luck! :tongue:

Must be nice...I watched the first six innings at home, then listened through the middle of the top of the ninth in the car on the way to work. Had to park my car two bocks from work (I won't pay for the lots downtown) and walk there. By the time I logged into my computer, cnnsi.com was just putting the final score up. I missed the whole damn comeback!

OG4LIFE
04-06-2005, 06:07 PM
my buddy went to the game today, he said that there were so few people there that he heard hafner drop an f-bomb after a swing and miss...

too bad that sox fans have jobs and cant make it to a lot of weekday day games, a lot of us definitely missed a good one today!

infohawk
04-06-2005, 06:07 PM
:ozzie (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=5#)

"Fun is winning and winning is fun. I lub da way dees keeds play."

Ol' No. 2
04-06-2005, 06:08 PM
Fine. Run Schoenweis, Wright, and Grilli out there 3 out of every 5 days and see how many games you win with 2005's "balanced offense."

I'm guessing about 75.

:kukoo:Did I not say "Pitching is the most important"???

But between a balanced offense and one loaded with sluggers, I'll take the balance any time. The Sox were the most inconsistant offense in all of MLB last year. Better balance may result in fewer total runs, but more consistency that should win more games.

FightingBillini
04-06-2005, 06:10 PM
We improved our pitching which is HUGE.
We improved our offense??? You're nuts.

MrKarno summarized it best. We gave up the steak in the middle of our line up and replaced it with hot dogs and hamburgers. Last year's line up matched with this year's pitching staff would have been a juggernaut-- the sort of team the South Side hasn't seen since 1917. Instead we're trying to get by with Small Ball because that's what we can afford.

We may win more in 2005, but it will be in spite of giving up power for small ball, not because of it!

Since you said we gave up the "steak" in the middle of our lineup, I will keep it in food terms. You cant eat a 5 lb steak one day and eat nothing the next 4. Don't let the power numbers fool you from last year. We didn't hit consistently day in and day out. We will win more this year because of our pitching and because we will have more consistent hitting.

We will never know whether or not last year's team would have won it all with a great pitching staff. The hitting was either on fire or ice cold, it was never in beteen. We might have caught fire in the playoffs and won it all. Or we could have gone cold and lost a couple of well pitched games by low scores and get tossed in the first round (see 2000).

Also, the only drastic "change" KW himself made on offense was to trade Lee. Manos blows, and he needed to leave the town. We all know why the Sox did the right thing with Magglio. They offered him a contract that was more than fair when he was healthy, and he wanted more than Vlad Guerrero to be an eveuntal career DH. Valentin and Ordonez were gone reguardless, as they should have been. KW adequately replaced Magglio with Dye. Podsednik might not have as high an average as Lee, but the Sox also greatly improved the offense at C and 2B.

Sargeant79
04-06-2005, 06:11 PM
Re: smallball vs. longball

The ninth inning today was a textbook example of a balanced offense. Power hitting tied the game up in the form of HR's by Pauly and J.D., while smallball and good fundamentals in the form of a bunt and a sac fly brought the winning run home. That is balance, plain and simple. If they can make a habit of this, I see great things ahead this season.

FightingBillini
04-06-2005, 06:12 PM
Did I not say "Pitching is the most important"???

But between a balanced offense and one loaded with sluggers, I'll take the balance any time. The Sox were the most inconsistant offense in all of MLB last year. Better balance may result in fewer total runs, but more consistency that should win more games.

We seem to be speaking a language they don't understand. I will call this language Billish.:cool:

PaleHoseGeorge
04-06-2005, 06:13 PM
Did I not say "Pitching is the most important"???

But between a balanced offense and one loaded with sluggers, I'll take the balance any time. The Sox were the most inconsistant offense in all of MLB last year. Better balance may result in fewer total runs, but more consistency that should win more games.

Wow. You're still arguing on behalf of "balance" when back-to-back jacks off an inferior pitching staff won today's game. Sad... very sad, indeed.

Pitching staffs being equal, I'll take a lineup filled with Thomas, Maggs, Lee, and Konerko any day of the week and pound the living **** out of your "balanced" team 7 of every 10 games.

:kukoo:

PaleHoseGeorge
04-06-2005, 06:15 PM
Re: smallball vs. longball

The ninth inning today was a textbook example of a balanced offense. Power hitting tied the game up in the form of HR's by Pauly and J.D., while smallball and good fundamentals in the form of a bunt and a sac fly brought the winning run home. That is balance, plain and simple. If they can make a habit of this, I see great things ahead this season.

As long as the "balance" is two jacks for every bunt and error, I completely agree.

:kukoo:

ChiSox7
04-06-2005, 06:15 PM
You guys are depressing!!! We won. Who cares how!!! (Of course our awesome pitching through two games is nice) Just keep winning!!!!

Mickster
04-06-2005, 06:15 PM
Wow. You're still arguing on behalf of "balance" when back-to-back jacks off an inferior pitching staff won today's game. Sad... very sad, indeed.

Pitching staffs being equal, I'll take a lineup filled with Thomas, Maggs, Lee, and Konerko any day of the week and pound the living **** out of your "balanced" team 7 of every 10 games.

:kukoo:

We seem to be speaking a language they don't understand. I will call this language REALITY. :cool:

FightingBillini
04-06-2005, 06:16 PM
Pitching staffs being equal, I'll take a lineup filled with Thomas, Maggs, Lee, and Konerko any day of the week and pound the living **** out of your "balanced" team 7 of every 10 games.

No, they would pound the living **** out of his "balanced" team 3 out of every 10 days, beating them by 10+ each time. The rest of the games they would struggle to push across a 3 runs and lose at least 5 of them.

24thStFan
04-06-2005, 06:16 PM
Wow! I just got off work and got the news about this amazing rally. Let's sweep the series tomorrow and really send a message.Go SOX!!!:supernana:

Baby Fisk
04-06-2005, 06:17 PM
You guys are depressing!!! We won. Who cares how!!! (Of course our awesome pitching through two games is nice) Just keep winning!!!!

This is why WSI is the greatest sports site ever. I love you guys.








eh... screw you guys... :cool:

FightingBillini
04-06-2005, 06:17 PM
We seem to be speaking a language they don't understand. I will call this language REALITY. :cool:
Really? How many times did we "pound the ****" out of the balance Twins lineup the last three years? Oh yeah.

FarWestChicago
04-06-2005, 06:19 PM
Rodney King time!!!

Sox Won!!

:bandance: :supernana: :bandance:

Mickster
04-06-2005, 06:19 PM
Really? How many times did we "pound the ****" out of the balance Twins lineup the last three years? Oh yeah.

Sure, the pitching staffs were equal....... :kukoo:

PaleHoseGeorge
04-06-2005, 06:20 PM
No, they would pound the living **** out of his "balanced" team 3 out of every 10 days, beating them by 10+ each time. The rest of the games they would struggle to push across a 3 runs and lose at least 5 of them.

You're just silly pulling **** out of your ass like this. Counting on bunts and errors is only playing for outs, i.e. losing.

:kukoo:

Ol' No. 2
04-06-2005, 06:23 PM
You're just silly pulling **** out of your ass like this. Counting on bunts and errors is only playing for outs, i.e. losing.

:kukoo:The bunt got the winning run to 3rd with less than 2 outs. The error was irrelevant. Even without the error, the Sox would have won on the Sac Fly. They scored runs on both long ball and small ball. Neither by itself would have won.

FightingBillini
04-06-2005, 06:23 PM
You're just silly pulling **** out of your ass like this. Counting on bunts and errors is only playing for outs, i.e. losing.

:kukoo:

They didnt count on bunts and errors. The team didn't hit at all until the 9th inning. But I forgot... we hit homers today and won, therefore homers will win EVERY game. The team didnt hit at all until the 9th, therefore, smallball will lose every game.

:kukoo: to you

OEO Magglio
04-06-2005, 06:25 PM
You're just silly pulling **** out of your ass like this. Counting on bunts and errors is only playing for outs, i.e. losing.

:kukoo:
That's ridiculous.

Baby Fisk
04-06-2005, 06:29 PM
This is quite tame, to those newcomers reading this thread with mouths fallen open. If the Sox had lost, there would currently be:

- 14 new threads pronouncing the death of Smallball
- 22 new threads declaring the end of the season
- 4 new threads with great wailing and gnashing of teeth about how "ineffective" Pods is
- 6 new threads from a revitalized Friends of Billy Beane movement calling for Kenny's resignation
- 5 new threads updating us on Jeremy Reed's stats over in Seattle, with obligatory backhanded slaps at "ineffective" Freddy Garcia
- a runaway monster thread that the Mods could barely contain within a single thread about the all new "Curse of Carlos Lee"
- the Official I Blame Jerry For Everything thread sponsored by, well you know who...

In other words, this would be a gruesome and woeful place today if the 9th inning hadn't happened the way it did. Whew! :cool:

Infallible
04-06-2005, 06:30 PM
But Why did they pull Joe? He would've won the game for us......

PaleHoseGeorge
04-06-2005, 06:30 PM
That's ridiculous.

Oh, I'm sorry. You bunt to reach base safely. And you reach on an error because you would have reached safely even without the error.

Those aren't outs you're sacrificing. That's playing the game to win!

:kukoo:

faneidde
04-06-2005, 06:32 PM
This is quite tame, to those newcomers reading this thread with mouths fallen open. If the Sox had lost, there would currently be:

- 14 new threads pronouncing the death of Smallball
- 22 new threads declaring the end of the season
- 4 new threads with great wailing and gnashing of teeth about how "ineffective" Pods is
- 6 new threads from a revitalized Friends of Billy Beane movement calling for Kenny's resignation
- 5 new threads updating us on Jeremy Reed's stats over in Seattle, with obligatory backhanded slaps at "ineffective" Freddy Garcia
- a runaway monster thread that the Mods could barely contain within a single thread about the all new "Curse of Carlos Lee"
- the Official I Blame Jerry For Everything thread sponsored by, well you know who...

In other words, this would be a gruesome and woeful place today if the 9th inning hadn't happened the way it did. Whew! :cool:
Great post, but you forgot the Joe Crede sucks thread. Actually, I think someone might go ahead and start that one today anyway. Nah, instead I'll just say it here, Joe Crede sucks, seriously, the guy is awful.
We need Uribe's Weed to give us a list of 3rd basemen we can go out and sign. His DH suggestions were great. Uribe's Weed DH Thread (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=43008&highlight=barfield)

SoxxoS
04-06-2005, 06:37 PM
As I read this thread...its fairly obvious most people have no idea what small ball means.

Whatever...great win...other than the fact my TIVO cut off. Note to TIVO users...record the game AND the show after.

FightingBillini
04-06-2005, 06:41 PM
Oh, I'm sorry. You bunt to reach base safely. And you reach on an error because you would have reached safely even without the error.

Those aren't outs you're sacrificing. That's playing the game to win!

:kukoo:

The bunt was intened to move the winning run into third with less than 2 outs. That is a good desicion.
On the other hand, if we would have just left Crede in there to try for the longball...

:kukoo:

Palehose13
04-06-2005, 06:42 PM
The bunt was intened to move the winning run into third with less than 2 outs. That is a good desicion.
On the other hand, if we would have just left Crede in there to try for the longball...

:kukoo:

6-4-3...and soon we go to the 10th.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-06-2005, 06:42 PM
The bunt got the winning run to 3rd with less than 2 outs. The error was irrelevant. Even without the error, the Sox would have won on the Sac Fly. They scored runs on both long ball and small ball. Neither by itself would have won.

Without the back-to-back jacks we LOSE. Not just go extra innings... or waiting for sacrifices or bunts or errors. We LOSE. Eight innings of nothing and the Sox "balanced" offense was the deciding factor?
:roflmao:

Some people here have a hard time understanding the concept. You get 27 outs and we were down to our last 3 before we even made it onto the scoreboard... Balance... oh, brother...

SOX ADDICT '73
04-06-2005, 06:42 PM
IMO, any Sox fan who criticizes this team (and for better or worse, this IS our team and there's no use lamenting it) is hedging his bets. If the Sox win this year, these fans will enjoy it like the rest of us. If the team sucks, they'll get to wag their fingers and say, "We told you so."

But I guess that's what distinguishes Sox fans from sCrUB-lovers. We don't follow our team blindly and unconditionally like sheep. We have opinions about everything the team does, and do our best to make them heard over everyone else's. As for me, I'm going home to watch the tape of the game (well, the bottom of the ninth anyway), and ENJOY MYSELF! :D:

PaleHoseGeorge
04-06-2005, 06:44 PM
The bunt was intened to move the winning run into third with less than 2 outs. That is a good desicion.
On the other hand, if we would have just left Crede in there to try for the longball...



Crede sucks. We all know that.
:cool:

faneidde
04-06-2005, 06:46 PM
They just showed the highlights on Sportscenter. They showed Iguchi grounding in a double play, and then the 9th where Walnuts and Dye went yard. They also showed the sac fly by Uribe. Those bastards must hate small ball though, cause they didn't show the bunt. Of course, they followed that 30 second clip up with a two minute plus feature on Mariano Rivera. I guess I'll have to wait for the what's wrong with Bob Wickman segment until tomorow.

Infallible
04-06-2005, 06:48 PM
6-4-3...and soon we go to the 10th.

:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

The sad thing, just about everyone can actually foresee this as a high probability...

Cowhead418
04-06-2005, 06:49 PM
Without the back-to-back jacks we LOSE. Not just go extra innings... or waiting for sacrifices or bunts or errors. We LOSE. Eight innings of nothing and the Sox "balanced" offense was the deciding factor?
:roflmao:

Some people here have a hard time understanding the concept. You get 27 outs and we were down to our last 3 before we even made it onto the scoreboard... Balance... oh, brother...

Dude, why are you trying to be all negative all of a sudden? Just enjoy the win for christ's sake. This is supposed to be a happy time. Stop trying to ruin everyone's good mood. It doesn't matter if they don't know what they are talking about and if balance didn't win the game, just let them enjoy the win. Geez, are you people ever happy?

FightingBillini
04-06-2005, 06:51 PM
Without the back-to-back jacks we LOSE. Not just go extra innings... or waiting for sacrifices or bunts or errors. We LOSE. Eight innings of nothing and the Sox "balanced" offense was the deciding factor?
:roflmao:

Some people here have a hard time understanding the concept. You get 27 outs and we were down to our last 3 before we even made it onto the scoreboard... Balance... oh, brother...

You are forgetting there was a pitching change. Millwood was doing good before Wickman came in.
Besides that, you are assuming that because we faced good pitching and couldn't get any across for 8, a balanced offense will never work. You are also assuming that because we DID hit homers in the 9th, it will always work. There is no offensive scheme that will produce runs every game. However, you have a better chance of getting a hit when you shorten up your swing than when you swing for the fences.

Palehose13
04-06-2005, 06:52 PM
:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

The sad thing, just about everyone can actually foresee this as a high probability...

Because we saw it so many times last year.

The long ball tied the game. Heck if Carl didn't get a single to lead off, the two jacks would have meant just that...jack. I gave Willie the kudos for the bunt, not because I thought it was the most important play of the inning, but because it was very un-Willie-like. IMO, it was very important to move the runners to second and third with less than 2 outs to WIN the game...unless you guys are just satisfied with tying the game in the ninth. Longball and smallball and pitching all contributed to the win, and IMO that is how it is supposed to be.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-06-2005, 06:52 PM
Dude, why are you trying to be all negative all of a sudden? Just enjoy the win for christ's sake. This is supposed to be a happy time. Stop trying to ruin everyone's good mood. It doesn't matter if they don't know what they are talking about and if balance didn't win the game, just let them enjoy the win. Geez, are you people ever happy?

You kidding. I love the Sox. I especially love our new pitching staff, the best on the South Side since at least 1994.

I just have a low tolerance for complete bull****... like "small ball" is better than "power ball."
:cool:

hawkjt
04-06-2005, 06:55 PM
Look , the small ball rally was done by Rowands double,Willies bunt and Juan's sac fly. Weren't all these guys here last year? We could not have done this last year? My point is that if we do not make the Carlos trade we still could have replaced maggs with dye,AJ for Davis and Iaguchi for Jose and been more balanced with a .300 hitter in left. Yes, the bullpen and starting pitching needed bolstering but we could have just spent the cash to bring in El Duque and a reliever out of the 14 milldo we are not paying maggs.

We could have reached the same balance without losing a consistent .300 hitter and .370 on base, 100Rbi guy. The jury is out on Pods. If he hits .300 and steals 75 then I will shut up. I hope he does cuz I want the sox to win. Go Sox!!!

FightingBillini
04-06-2005, 06:57 PM
Dude, why are you trying to be all negative all of a sudden? Just enjoy the win for christ's sake. This is supposed to be a happy time. Stop trying to ruin everyone's good mood. It doesn't matter if they don't know what they are talking about and if balance didn't win the game, just let them enjoy the win. Geez, are you people ever happy?
I agree, but nobody is aruging that balance won the game. However, power wont win EVERY game. You can't count on the power hitters to come through every game. We saw that the last few years.

Jurr
04-06-2005, 06:58 PM
As I read this thread...its fairly obvious most people have no idea what small ball means.

Whatever...great win...other than the fact my TIVO cut off. Note to TIVO users...record the game AND the show after.
Thank you.

Small ball is not some all-encompassing way of playing baseball. It's all situational, much the same as throwing different types of passes in football based on what the receiver's doing.

If a ball is out over the plate, you swing at it hard. The ball will go over the fence if hit hard enough. The key to that is waiting for a good pitch to hit hard. Bob Wickman left those two pitches up and over the plate. They were crushed. No long ball or small ball stuff at all.

People think baseball is a lot more complex than it is. When a ball comes at the hitter that fat, the hitter's eyes light up and he hits it. The Twins didn't play small ball all the time last year. Hell, I remember vividly when they were down 3 in the top of 9 in Toronto, and their backup catcher (Lecroix) crushed a grand slam. The ball was there, and he hit it. Could've ended up a gapper, fly out, etc. He wasn't trying to overswing (like Lee and Jose LOVED to do)..he just hit the ball when it was there. And hard.

Small ball isn't some thing that the players try to strive for. It's just a mindset of executing when there's an opportunity. Stay back and get the ball hit to the right side. Get a BUNT DOWN! Steal a base! All of these things are fundamental baseball principles that some players just can't buy into or execute. So, you get players that can. Small ball is something the media likes to come up with to dumb down and sterotype a complex concept. The whole debate about this subject is ludicrous.

IT IS NOT SMALL BALL OR LONG BALL. It's executing during a game, hitting the ball (sometimes really hard if the pitcher makes a mistake), and doing what it takes to win.
We haven't scored a lot because the Indians have had two great performances from their starting pitchers. Period.

OEO Magglio
04-06-2005, 06:59 PM
I just have a low tolerance for complete bull****... like "small ball" is better than "power ball."
:cool:
It's nice that you respect others opinions.

delben91
04-06-2005, 06:59 PM
The ninth inning was great. That aside, I thought it was impressive that Garcia went 6, giving up only 2 (and would've been 1 without that brain fart balk) with less than great control. I think it's nice to have that be a pitcher's "off" day.

Now if Jose would be so kind as to remove his head from his ass for about 3 hours tomorrow, I'll be very pleased.

JB98
04-06-2005, 07:00 PM
You kidding. I love the Sox. I especially love our new pitching staff, the best on the South Side since at least 1994.

I just have a low tolerance for complete bull****... like "small ball" is better than "power ball."
:cool:

I hate "small ball." This game was totally boring until the middle of our lineup went up there and started mashing in the ninth.

Good job by Freddy and the 'pen to keep us within striking distance the whole game. We definitely stole a win today!
:supernana:

LongLiveFisk
04-06-2005, 07:00 PM
The Sox are 2-0 and the fans are already at each other's throats...ya gotta love it.

Thank God baseball's back! :D:

FightingBillini
04-06-2005, 07:00 PM
You kidding. I love the Sox. I especially love our new pitching staff, the best on the South Side since at least 1994.

I just have a low tolerance for complete bull****... like "small ball" is better than "power ball."
:cool:
I agree about the pitching staff.
I have a low tolerance for people who seemed to have forgotten a pair of 1-0 losses by Loaiza to the Tigers in 2003. I have a low tolerance for people who stand behind "power ball" even though it only clicked 3 or 4 out of 10 days.

samram
04-06-2005, 07:03 PM
Look, this isn't about smallball or longball, it's about winning ball. The point of KW's moves was to be able to win in different ways- there's no mandate that every game be won with bunts and stolen bases. If the team has to hit homers to win (or tie) like it did today, great. If they steal 4 bases and go first to third all day and win that way, great. The concept here is that the team doesn't have to hit homeruns to win because there's some veratility and, hopefully, a solid pitching staff, but if they do hit homeruns and win, that works just fine.:bandance:

FightingBillini
04-06-2005, 07:04 PM
I hate "small ball." This game was totally boring until the middle of our lineup went up there and started mashing in the ninth.

Good job by Freddy and the 'pen to keep us within striking distance the whole game. We definitely stole a win today!
:supernana:
And do you think the Sox wouldn't have pused runs across without homers if Millwood pitched how Wickman did?
You can't count on swinging for the fences to work out every time, but it worked this time. Also, because the team couldn't score before the ninth, it doesn't mean that "smallball" wont work in other games.

FightingBillini
04-06-2005, 07:07 PM
Look, this isn't about smallball or longball, it's about winning ball. The point of KW's moves was to be able to win in different ways- there's no mandate that every game be won with bunts and stolen bases. If the team has to hit homers to win (or tie) like it did today, great. If they steal 4 bases and go first to third all day and win that way, great. The concept here is that the team doesn't have to hit homeruns to win because there's some veratility and, hopefully, a solid pitching staff, but if they do hit homeruns and win, that works just fine.:bandance:

You are speaking Billish:cool:.
I am only calling it "smallball" because PHG did. He seems to have bought into the Dave Van Dyke point of view. The Sox STILL have power, lots of it. The only difference is that this year they are better equipped to win close games.

hsnterprize
04-06-2005, 07:08 PM
Well...whether if it's done with smallball, longball, or "balls to the walls"...the only ball I'm interested in is...

WINNING BALL!!!!!!

It was a good win today. Hopefully, the Sox can try to bring in more runs earlier in a game so they won't have to rely on comebacks like this too often. It rattles the nerves too much.

Cowhead418
04-06-2005, 07:12 PM
You kidding. I love the Sox. I especially love our new pitching staff, the best on the South Side since at least 1994.

I just have a low tolerance for complete bull****... like "small ball" is better than "power ball."
:cool:
:redface: Oh, sorry. I didn't know what you meant. It's all good.

doublem23
04-06-2005, 07:22 PM
I'm sure there is nothing I can add to this thread any more.... But I have to get it off my chest.

That was purely stunning. Hell, I almost left for class after Ronnie Belliard scored to make it 3-0 assuming that they had folded like las year, but I figured I'd wait to see the disgusting end in person.

I still can't believe it. I was running to class in the rain so giddy my feet barely touched the ground. What a ****ing game. What a ****ing game.

:supernana:

I could get used to this.

HomeFish
04-06-2005, 07:28 PM
Reality Check:

Our bats were dead for eight innings against medicore pitching, after they were dead for eight, nearly nine, innings last game, though that was against aan All-Star.

We got a gift win, folks. If that were Joe Nathan, Ugeth Urbina, or their ilk on the mound in the ninth, we would be 1-1 with just one run scored in the past two games.

Sure, you can, and some of you will, reply that it wasn't Nathan or Urbina on the mound, and that we won fairly. So it may be. But, in this season, we will have to face Nathan, Urbina, and their ilk in situations like this, and you are delusional if you think the Sox will get four runs off any of those. They will be fortunate to get a single hit.

And guess what: doing anything requires beating those teams that they are on. Doing anything this season requires actually, you know, scoring runs before it gets to the closer.

That's not somthing this team has showed me it can do.

Jjav829
04-06-2005, 07:30 PM
This thread is growing ridiculous. To claim that we are a smallball team is absurd and I'll give you five reasons why: Everett, Konerko, Dye, Pierzynski, and Crede. Do these look like "smallball" players to you? We're looking at possibly five of the slowest players in baseball. Replace Everett with Thomas and you're still looking at five extremely slow players. You don't build an exclusive smallball team or an exclusive mashing team if you want to be successful. The best teams have everything. Starting pitching, relief pitching, power, speed, defense. You can't build a team with one or two of these and ignore the rest. You won't win anything. Ask the damn Cubs how well it worked last year. They had one of the most powerful lineups in baseball. They had some of the best pitching in baseball. To put some numbers to it, they were 3rd in baseball with 235 home runs and 3rd in baseball with a 3.81 ERA. Why did they lose? Because other than good starting pitching and some mashers who could crush the baseball, they sucked! Their bullpen was awful. Their defense was crap. They had one guy in the entire lineup with speed. They didn't have patient hitters, but rather guys who just wanted to take big hacks and hope to crush the ball. It didn't work. You simply can't build a team around one thing and expect to win with it. You have to have a complete team. Everyone points to the Marlins as the ultimate "smallball" champion. But they were a balanced offense. They had the two smallball - speedy, get on a move, drop down a bunt - guys at the top. Then they had three big hitters in Rodriguez, Lowell and Cabrera.

I believe you have to build an offense. You don't just throw together a bunch of players and hope it works. You get guys who can do everything. Your top of the order guys should be able to get on, get over and get in. Those should be your smallball guys. The guys who can bunt their way on, steal a base, take an extra base, etc. Your 3-4-5 guys should be big hitters. They shouldn't need to know how to bunt. They should be your big hitters. They're the guys who should be driving the ball into the gaps and over the fences. They should be getting the top of the order guys in as well as getting themselves on. To me, that's the main component of any offense. You fill out your 6-7-8-9 in the lineup based on a combination of talent, power, etc.

Pitching should be your main focus. It's the most important thing to have, but it isn't all you need. Good pitching without a good offense means nothing. You have to have balance all around. That's something I think this team finally has. Will everyone perform as they need to? I don't know. But if they do and it all comes together, I think this team has the complete balance as a team to be successful.

FightingBillini
04-06-2005, 07:34 PM
Reality Check:

Our bats were dead for eight innings against medicore pitching, after they were dead for eight, nearly nine, innings last game, though that was against aan All-Star.

We got a gift win, folks. If that were Joe Nathan, Ugeth Urbina, or their ilk on the mound in the ninth, we would be 1-1 with just one run scored in the past two games.

Sure, you can, and some of you will, reply that it wasn't Nathan or Urbina on the mound, and that we won fairly. So it may be. But, in this season, we will have to face Nathan, Urbina, and their ilk in situations like this, and you are delusional if you think the Sox will get four runs off any of those. They will be fortunate to get a single hit.

And guess what: doing anything requires beating those teams that they are on. Doing anything this season requires actually, you know, scoring runs before it gets to the closer.

That's not somthing this team has showed me it can do.
OK, but are you saying a 2 game hitting slump with at least one against good pitching is more indicative of the rest of the season than that the ninth inning was? I would hope not.
We are going to score more runs this year than last because we have less all or nothing hitters. Out hitting these two games doesn't mean anything long term.

delben91
04-06-2005, 07:34 PM
Reality Check:

Our bats were dead for eight innings against medicore pitching, after they were dead for eight, nearly nine, innings last game, though that was against aan All-Star.

We got a gift win, folks. If that were Joe Nathan, Ugeth Urbina, or their ilk on the mound in the ninth, we would be 1-1 with just one run scored in the past two games.

Sure, you can, and some of you will, reply that it wasn't Nathan or Urbina on the mound, and that we won fairly. So it may be. But, in this season, we will have to face Nathan, Urbina, and their ilk in situations like this, and you are delusional if you think the Sox will get four runs off any of those. They will be fortunate to get a single hit.

And guess what: doing anything requires beating those teams that they are on. Doing anything this season requires actually, you know, scoring runs before it gets to the closer.

That's not somthing this team has showed me it can do.

I agree with all you said.

That said, I still will take a win today that was gift wrapped by Wickman than a loss. That win will still count the same in the standings.

Palehose13
04-06-2005, 07:36 PM
Reality Check:

Our bats were dead for eight innings against medicore pitching, after they were dead for eight, nearly nine, innings last game, though that was against aan All-Star.

We got a gift win, folks. If that were Joe Nathan, Ugeth Urbina, or their ilk on the mound in the ninth, we would be 1-1 with just one run scored in the past two games.

Sure, you can, and some of you will, reply that it wasn't Nathan or Urbina on the mound, and that we won fairly. So it may be. But, in this season, we will have to face Nathan, Urbina, and their ilk in situations like this, and you are delusional if you think the Sox will get four runs off any of those. They will be fortunate to get a single hit.

And guess what: doing anything requires beating those teams that they are on. Doing anything this season requires actually, you know, scoring runs before it gets to the closer.

That's not somthing this team has showed me it can do.

:rolleyes:

#1. Are you implying that the Sox didn't win the game fairly? ( see purple text above)

#2. Medicore pitching? All that we have been hearing this offseason is about how wonderful Cleveland's pitching staff is...some "experts" have even claimed it to be the best in the division.

#3.Aren't you ever happy or are you really a :dtroll: ?

HomeFish
04-06-2005, 07:39 PM
We are going to score more runs this year than last because we have less all or nothing hitters. Out hitting these two games doesn't mean anything long term.

Those so-called "All or Nothing" hitters won this game. Timo didn't bunt in the winning run. Iguchi didn't tie it with an infield single. Podsednik didn't steal home.

Konerko and a right fielder hit home runs, then Uribe hit a fly ball a long way. Not all that long, but long enough. And even Rowand, the so-called small ball player, what did he do? He hit a double.

ondafarm
04-06-2005, 07:41 PM
So who is the PTC?

Palehose13
04-06-2005, 07:42 PM
HomeFish...I refer you to this post:

Thank you.

Small ball is not some all-encompassing way of playing baseball. It's all situational, much the same as throwing different types of passes in football based on what the receiver's doing.

If a ball is out over the plate, you swing at it hard. The ball will go over the fence if hit hard enough. The key to that is waiting for a good pitch to hit hard. Bob Wickman left those two pitches up and over the plate. They were crushed. No long ball or small ball stuff at all.

People think baseball is a lot more complex than it is. When a ball comes at the hitter that fat, the hitter's eyes light up and he hits it. The Twins didn't play small ball all the time last year. Hell, I remember vividly when they were down 3 in the top of 9 in Toronto, and their backup catcher (Lecroix) crushed a grand slam. The ball was there, and he hit it. Could've ended up a gapper, fly out, etc. He wasn't trying to overswing (like Lee and Jose LOVED to do)..he just hit the ball when it was there. And hard.

Small ball isn't some thing that the players try to strive for. It's just a mindset of executing when there's an opportunity. Stay back and get the ball hit to the right side. Get a BUNT DOWN! Steal a base! All of these things are fundamental baseball principles that some players just can't buy into or execute. So, you get players that can. Small ball is something the media likes to come up with to dumb down and sterotype a complex concept. The whole debate about this subject is ludicrous.

IT IS NOT SMALL BALL OR LONG BALL. It's executing during a game, hitting the ball (sometimes really hard if the pitcher makes a mistake), and doing what it takes to win.
We haven't scored a lot because the Indians have had two great performances from their starting pitchers. Period.

HomeFish
04-06-2005, 07:42 PM
#2. [/i]Medicore pitching? All that we have been hearing this offseason is about how wonderful Cleveland's pitching staff is...some "experts" have even claimed it to be the best in the division.


Cleveland has three pitchers better than the guy we faced today. Having a mediocre pitcher as your #4 is still better than most teams can claim.

Palehose13
04-06-2005, 07:43 PM
So who is the PTC?

:weewillie

Is there any doubt? :wink:

Frankfan4life
04-06-2005, 07:44 PM
What an ending! Magnificent! Thanks White Sox for not giving up and getting the job done.

Palehose13
04-06-2005, 07:46 PM
Cleveland has three pitchers better than the guy we faced today. Having a mediocre pitcher as your #4 is still better than most teams can claim.

Oh yeah..well, I'm beating you in fantasy baseball right now. :neener:

chisoxmike
04-06-2005, 07:48 PM
:sahaf
"Noooooooooooooooooooo, the Sox did not score 4 runs to beat the 2005 world series champion Cleveland Indians!!!!!!!'

Seriously, there is nothing like watching the game from the 3rd to the 8th innings, then go to class, then come back see that they came back and won! Amazing.

The kids can play as the go go sox who are winning ugly. :tongue:

Gosox1917
04-06-2005, 07:49 PM
IMO, we are finally well-balanced, that's all. We have about five guys that can hit twenty homers or more this year. Some of them are slow, but if the speedy guys get on and steal a bag or two ahead of them, we score runs. Let the big bats come through when they need to and they did today. Pods, Iguchi and the other speedsters will get on, and we will manufacture runs more in addition with the long ball. Also, we have a great rotation and a very deep and good bullpen. With the balance of this team, we will score many more runs this season and not be AS dependent on the HR as we were in the past. Saying that, you can't take away from the fact this was a great game, the way they fought back. Win or die trying.

FightingBillini
04-06-2005, 07:49 PM
Those so-called "All or Nothing" hitters won this game. Timo didn't bunt in the winning run. Iguchi didn't tie it with an infield single. Podsednik didn't steal home.

Konerko and a right fielder hit home runs, then Uribe hit a fly ball a long way. Not all that long, but long enough. And even Rowand, the so-called small ball player, what did he do? He hit a double.
TO- DAY!!!
The power hitters won the game TODAY! They obviously cant do it everyday, or even most days, as we saw the last two years. If power hitting was reliable every day, the single season HR record for a player would be 180, and The Sox would have won the division the last three years. Our gameplan this year doesn call for Konerko or Dye to lay down bunts. They will do what they always do. However, if you have 9 Konerkos in your lineup, you wont win very much. We have power hitters AND others. That is what it takes to win.

starboy0
04-06-2005, 07:50 PM
Got home a bit after 3 with the score 2-0 with Cleveland coming up in the 9th. They push another one across off Marte. (Although he looked a lot better than he did in the opener against KC last year! Shudder!)

Feeling glum, downright morose, wondering why I put myself through this for so many years.

Went and got the baby from the crib for luck. Still a chance; I remembered being down 9-3 I think last year in April against these guys. Everett singles, PK strokes one. Hope is welling up in me. Dye goes yard. Hootin and hollerin I'm scaring the baby. I let her know this is just how it is. Rowand doubles and now I really think we're going to do it. PZ gets a free pass, Willie moves them along and Uribe gets the sac. Don't scare the baby but it's tough! What a sweet win.

I liked how the pitching of Garcia and the bullpen kept us in the game. Power ties it and Willie and Juan execute. I like how Ozzie is using everyone to contribute. This game and bringing in Gload in the ninth of the 1st game. What a great defensive play he made.

I know it's only two games but it's really feeling like TEAM ball here.

Palehose13
04-06-2005, 07:51 PM
TO- DAY!!!
The power hitters won the game TODAY! They obviously cant do it everyday, or even most days, as we saw the last two years. If power hitting was reliable every day, the single season HR record for a player would be 180, and The Sox would have won the division the last three years. Our gameplan this year doesn call for Konerko or Dye to lay down bunts. They will do what they always do. However, if you have 9 Konerkos in your lineup, you wont win very much. We have power hitters AND others. That is what it takes to win.

Will you stop it with that Billish nonsense!

btw...love the sig

FightingBillini
04-06-2005, 07:53 PM
:tomatoaward:tomatoaward

mantis1212
04-06-2005, 07:54 PM
However, if you have 9 Konerkos in your lineup, you wont win very much.

Hmmmm, that WOULD be interesting experiment to watch though - that would be about 360 team HRs for the year. - no SB, team avg of .270 - .280.

I'll take it!!

UofCSoxFan
04-06-2005, 07:58 PM
Hey just got back from my game today and missed the comeback....anyone mind recapping for me what happened in the last half inning?....I see Jermaine and Paulie went yard...but what else happened?

mealfred13
04-06-2005, 08:08 PM
Reality Check:

Our bats were dead for eight innings against medicore pitching, after they were dead for eight, nearly nine, innings last game, though that was against aan All-Star.

We got a gift win, folks. If that were Joe Nathan, Ugeth Urbina, or their ilk on the mound in the ninth, we would be 1-1 with just one run scored in the past two games.

Sure, you can, and some of you will, reply that it wasn't Nathan or Urbina on the mound, and that we won fairly. So it may be. But, in this season, we will have to face Nathan, Urbina, and their ilk in situations like this, and you are delusional if you think the Sox will get four runs off any of those. They will be fortunate to get a single hit.

And guess what: doing anything requires beating those teams that they are on. Doing anything this season requires actually, you know, scoring runs before it gets to the closer.

That's not somthing this team has showed me it can do.

For the love of Christ, do you ever post anything positive? You've got to have a record for most oft-quoted person in these forums, due to the utter crap and trollish posts you make.

First of all, IIRC, we have been able to mount comebacks against the likes of Urbina, Percival and other such "elite" closers. While I will concede that Wickman's pitches didn't seem to be sinking like they're supposed to, I'm not going to call the homeruns "gifts". You put a crappy hitter up there and he's not going to turn on a hanging sinker and knock it out of the park.

Second, their pitching today was far from "mediocre." Did you actually watch the game today? Why do I get the feeling this is another example of you reading the boxscore and then talking like you saw the game. Millwood was doing an excellent job keeping hitters off-balance, throwing fastballs late in the count and then mixing it up with slow or breaking stuff when the batters were expecting fastballs. Even Hawk mentioned he hadn't seen someone so secure in using his fastball late in the count, rather than hoping to get batters to chase breaking balls like most pitchers do.

Finally, I love how you say that this team "hasn't showed you it can score runs before they get to the closer." You're joking right? Because obviously no one in our lineup is capable of getting hits off any starting pitcher in the major leagues. That's why we have a team full of rugby players wearing baseball uniforms and holding bats.

Start making comments like that AFTER we've played more than 2 games and AFTER we haven't scored any runs off starting pitchers for two weeks or something. Enjoy the win, and keep the ridiculous remarks to yourself, or at least think about what you're saying before you post about it. That is, if you actually enjoy seeing the Sox win, because it really doesn't seem like it.

fuzzy_patters
04-06-2005, 08:09 PM
Let me clarify a few things for some of you that do not seem to understand what we saw today. This game was not won by our pitchers, our homeruns, or our small ball (which is just a euphemism for execution, anyway). We won this game because we were balanced. Our pitching kept us in the game until we could face a weaker pitcher. Then, we hit 2 home runs. Finally, Willie laid down a bunt that enabled Uribe to win the game on a sacrifice fly. If we do not have one of those three things, we lose this game. All three are important, and good teams can do them all.

FightingBillini
04-06-2005, 08:17 PM
Hmmmm, that WOULD be interesting experiment to watch though - that would be about 360 team HRs for the year. - no SB, team avg of .270 - .280.

I'll take it!!
Yeah, but the team would hit .239 on the road.:o:
Dont forget the defense. Imagine Konerko chasing down balls in the outfield. Any hit down the line would be a inside the park homer. Also, any bunt would be a hit, and the SS would only get to balls that were hit within 3 feet of him.

peeonwrigley
04-06-2005, 08:46 PM
Wow, what a game. Went into class at 3 knowing we were down in the bottom of the 6th, only to get a voicemail from my brother during class saying we won in the bottom of the 9th. Awesomeness.

maurice
04-06-2005, 09:07 PM
Reality check:

The Sox are undefeated.

- - -

I suppose it's too much to ask for y'all to wait until they lose a game before the bitching commences. Until then, it's all good . . . except Crede.

:duck:

Lip Man 1
04-06-2005, 09:26 PM
WOW That was one amazing comeback...it's like suddenly someone turned on the switch.

The mark of a good team is one that somehow finds a way to win when they are not playing well. Today was one of those days. Like Ozzie said though the guys have got to start hitting, when they do, things will be easier.

Lip

Sargeant79
04-06-2005, 09:30 PM
Let me clarify a few things for some of you that do not seem to understand what we saw today. This game was not won by our pitchers, our homeruns, or our small ball (which is just a euphemism for execution, anyway). We won this game because we were balanced. Our pitching kept us in the game until we could face a weaker pitcher. Then, we hit 2 home runs. Finally, Willie laid down a bunt that enabled Uribe to win the game on a sacrifice fly. If we do not have one of those three things, we lose this game. All three are important, and good teams can do them all.

Exactly. Well put. It was a combination of these things (balance) that provided the win.

SoxWillWin
04-06-2005, 09:45 PM
:sahaf


The kids can play as the go go sox who are winning ugly. :tongue:

Make that "The Cardiac Kids can play as the Go Go Sox who are Winning Ugly"

DickAllen72
04-06-2005, 09:53 PM
Really? How many times did we "pound the ****" out of the balance Twins lineup the last three years? Oh yeah.

And how many times did we pound the **** out of the Tigers the last few years? Or how about how we pounded the **** out of all those minor league call-up pitchers the first time we saw them??? Oh yeah.


:wink:

pczarapa
04-06-2005, 09:54 PM
Man, I had that one written off to corpseball. Where'd that come from? We'll take it tho!


Me too, new season, I need a new attitude! :bandance:

DickAllen72
04-06-2005, 10:07 PM
IMO, any Sox fan who criticizes this team (and for better or worse, this IS our team and there's no use lamenting it) is hedging his bets. If the Sox win this year, these fans will enjoy it like the rest of us. If the team sucks, they'll get to wag their fingers and say, "We told you so."

A wise man recently referred to fans like this as "fly by night." :smile:

Jurr
04-06-2005, 10:23 PM
And how many times did we pound the **** out of the Tigers the last few years? Or how about how we pounded the **** out of all those minor league call-up pitchers the first time we saw them??? Oh yeah.


:wink:
This is actually a very good point. If you put some pressure on a young pitcher by even getting 1 or 2 runs on the board, they start to press and become unglued. That's how good teams work...they manufacture a couple of runs and fluster the youngsters, and the dam breaks.

We haven't had that mentality the last few years, and it seemed like we spent 9 innings waiting for mistakes to drive out of the park against the likes of Wilfredo Ledezma. We may be more able to beat those teams with an approach on fundamentals.

By the way........how awesome is it to be down a couple of runs and be able to hand it over to Vizcaino and Marte instead of Mike "grand slam" Jackson??
Every time Jackson used to come into the game, I'd instantly turn it off. It's like putting in the rookie backup quarterback for mop-up duty. Concession of defeat.

spongyfungy
04-06-2005, 10:31 PM
Konerko Postgame comments (http://home.comcast.net/%7Espongy83/konerko_postgame-04-06.mp3)

Dye's Postgame comments (http://home.comcast.net/%7Espongy83/dye_postgame-04-06.mp3)

SoxWillWin
04-06-2005, 10:31 PM
Well let's face it there are all types of "opinions" about the sox right now. Me personally, I'm happy we won our first 2 games. So as a team were batting .220 with a 3 something ERA. Could it be better? Yes. But we still won. After all the W is the only stat that matters. I can't wait to see how entertaining this place will get when we hit our first REAL bump in the road. Which will be the teams first loss.

Palehose13
04-06-2005, 10:45 PM
Konerko Postgame comments (http://home.comcast.net/%7Espongy83/konerko_postgame-04-06.mp3)

Dye's Postgame comments (http://home.comcast.net/%7Espongy83/dye_postgame-04-06.mp3)

Thanks for those links! This year, the Sox really are a TEAM.

elrod
04-07-2005, 12:22 AM
This was a great win, period. The only thing worrying me is that the Sox had a bunch of wins like this last year and then turned it off in mid-summer. If they can keep up this winning attitude then they can win the division. But if they lapse into corpse ball and forget the little things then they will plummet like last year after the infamous Twins series.

batmanZoSo
04-07-2005, 12:37 AM
This was a great win, period. The only thing worrying me is that the Sox had a bunch of wins like this last year and then turned it off in mid-summer. If they can keep up this winning attitude then they can win the division. But if they lapse into corpse ball and forget the little things then they will plummet like last year after the infamous Twins series.

I thought about that too. In April and May we were always winning one run games, this year we're 2 for 2. I think (hope) the makeup of this team inhibits corpseball or at least the rampant, teamwide kind that plagued us the last four years. We no longer have Valentin striking out 5 times a game, that's huge. We actually have 5 major league starters and a pretty solid bullpen and there's no more automatic loss every fifth day as long as the 5 are healthy.

FarWestChicago
04-07-2005, 02:54 AM
#3.Aren't you ever happy or are you really a :dtroll: ?Homefish? I think the answer is obvious. :rolleyes:

ondafarm
04-07-2005, 08:30 AM
:weewillie

Is there any doubt? :wink:

No way, it's gotta be Konerko. But I see from the standings that those who picked someone else got it.

Palehose13
04-07-2005, 09:30 AM
No way, it's gotta be Konerko. But I see from the standings that those who picked someone else got it.

That was a joke. :wink:

fquaye149
04-07-2005, 11:37 AM
Let's say it together.

P-I-T-C-H-I-N-G
W-I-N-S
B-A-L-L-G-A-M-E-S.

Not jacks. Not defense. And definitely not bunts.

You don't believe me? Ask any Cleveland fan.


you're absolutely right PHG. But maybe if we asked E-Lo about the two games he lost 1-0 to Detroit cuz we couldn't wrangle a run, he might have something else to say.

That's why RJ will win 20 this year - not because he is a better pitcher, or has a better bullpen.

I don't like small ball that much and I don't think small ball WINS any games, but it sure helps the pitching win a game 1-0 when our hot/cold hitters can't bang them out, no?

voodoochile
04-07-2005, 11:50 AM
you're absolutely right PHG. But maybe if we asked E-Lo about the two games he lost 1-0 to Detroit cuz we couldn't wrangle a run, he might have something else to say.

That's why RJ will win 20 this year - not because he is a better pitcher, or has a better bullpen.

I don't like small ball that much and I don't think small ball WINS any games, but it sure helps the pitching win a game 1-0 when our hot/cold hitters can't bang them out, no?

Because he has a better offense behind him?

Okay... now remind me again, what kind of offense do the Yankees have? Last time I checked they were a station to station team which loved to cream the baseball deep into the night...

FightingBillini
04-07-2005, 12:31 PM
Because he has a better offense behind him?

Okay... now remind me again, what kind of offense do the Yankees have? Last time I checked they were a station to station team which loved to cream the baseball deep into the night...
With a few exceptions the Yankees lineup has much better and more consistant hitters. Carlos Lee and Jose Valentin are not to be relied upon by a good team. Hey, maybe we can pick up a very old and often injured Gary Sheffield for $13mil this offseason. He is goes down, we will just sign someone else!

voodoochile
04-07-2005, 12:39 PM
With a few exceptions the Yankees lineup has much better and more consistant hitters. Carlos Lee and Jose Valentin are not to be relied upon by a good team. Hey, maybe we can pick up a very old and often injured Gary Sheffield for $13mil this offseason. He is goes down, we will just sign someone else!

That's just nuts. Carlos could start for any team in the majors. Jose wouldn't but that is because there are more corner OF slots available than SS and because Jose is older.

Iwritecode
04-07-2005, 12:44 PM
Because he has a better offense behind him?

Okay... now remind me again, what kind of offense do the Yankees have? Last time I checked they were a station to station team which loved to cream the baseball deep into the night...

Yea, and look where it's gotten them the past few years...

I hate to say it but they haven't added any new WS trophies since they've started moving toward getting all these guys that can hit 30 plus homeruns but can't bunt or move a runner over to save their life...

FightingBillini
04-07-2005, 12:45 PM
That's just nuts. Carlos could start for any team in the majors. Jose wouldn't but that is because there are more corner OF slots available than SS and because Jose is older.
Carlos could probably start for any team, but no team would want an entire lineup of ultra-streaky hitters who piled on homers in blowouts and went to sleep in close games. Most of Carlos' stats came in garbage time, there is no denying that.
:hawk
"Don't tell me what you hit, tell me when you hit it."

voodoochile
04-07-2005, 12:55 PM
Carlos could probably start for any team, but no team would want an entire lineup of ultra-streaky hitters who piled on homers in blowouts and went to sleep in close games. Most of Carlos' stats came in garbage time, there is no denying that.


:o::?:

I'm denying it right here and now. You have some evidence to support your position you want to produce other than your word, go for it. Isn't this the guy who smacked a couple of HR to be the flubbies including one a grand slam in the ninth or something?

Keep backpedling...

Lip Man 1
04-07-2005, 01:15 PM
Voodoo:

Not saying the philosophy of small ball is right or wrong but you mentioned the Yanks being station to station home run hitters. However you also have to mention that they have some of the best defensive players around and have always spent large amounts of money getting a top flight pitching staff.

PHG made a good post one time discussing this saying that's what the Sox should have done and he's right. The problem is the Sox don't have or won't spend the money needed to accomplish that so they have to try to cut corners, mix and match and 'hope' things work out.

Lip

MeanFish
04-07-2005, 01:39 PM
Voodoo:

Not saying the philosophy of small ball is right or wrong but you mentioned the Yanks being station to station home run hitters. However you also have to mention that they have some of the best defensive players around and have always spent large amounts of money getting a top flight pitching staff.

PHG made a good post one time discussing this saying that's what the Sox should have done and he's right. The problem is the Sox don't have or won't spend the money needed to accomplish that so they have to try to cut corners, mix and match and 'hope' things work out.

Lip

On paper, our defense is better than that of the Yankees. Our starting pitching still has a chance of outdoing them this year and the uncertain success of the 3-5 starters will certainly be the key to both staffs. Our BP might actually be better too, especially if Mariano Rivera keeps up the good work.

The only definite minus I can see us having when compared to the Yankees is hitting. However, the difference there remains to be seen.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-07-2005, 01:47 PM
The "problem" with last year's line up was at the top and bottom of the order, not the middle. Guys like Harris couldn't get on base ahead of the big boppers (thus the preponderance of solo home runs) and guys like Alomar and Crede were virtually automatic outs at the bottom of the line up, too.

We were bleeding outs on offense and the pitching staff basically sucked after Buehrle, Garcia and Takatsu. Garland proved we expected too much of him pitching #3, too. That makes for a second-place team in a weak division.

Of course to improve the pitching staff the Sox gave up power, not at the top or bottom of the line up but smack in the middle. That was our strength. We downgraded there to upgrade elsewhere, and presumably the improved pitching staff will make a big difference. So how some people here came to conclude it wasn't a downgrade on offense boggles all reason.

To believe these Luddites you would have to believe the Sox were UPGRADING by trading away Lee for Podsednik straight up! Nevermind the bullpen toss-in for Vizcaino. Nevermind the payroll headroom to sign El Duque and Iguchi. These Luddites would take Podsednik over Lee on a straight swap. Are they closet Brewer fans, too?
:?:

It's insanity and complete bull**** and I can point to countless posts in this thread where these people reveal their true colors. Complete nonsense...

:kukoo:

Ol' No. 2
04-07-2005, 01:57 PM
The "problem" with last year's line up was at the top and bottom of the order, not the middle. Guys like Harris couldn't get on base ahead of the big boppers (thus the preponderance of solo home runs) and guys like Alomar and Crede were virtually automatic outs at the bottom of the line up, too.

We were bleeding outs on offense and the pitching staff basically sucked after Buehrle, Garcia and Takatsu. Garland proved we expected too much of him pitching #3, too. That makes for a second-place team in a weak division.

Of course to improve the pitching staff the Sox gave up power, not at the top or bottom of the line up but smack in the middle. That was our strength. We downgraded there to upgrade elsewhere, and presumably the improved pitching staff will make a big difference. So how some people here came to conclude it wasn't a downgrade on offense boggles all reason.

To believe these Luddites you would have to believe the Sox were UPGRADING by trading away Lee for Podsednik straight up! Nevermind the bullpen toss-in for Vizcaino. Nevermind the payroll headroom to sign El Duque and Iguchi. These Luddites would take Podsednik over Lee on a straight swap. Are they closet Brewer fans, too?
:?:

It's insanity and complete bull**** and I can point to countless posts in this thread where these people reveal their true colors. Complete nonsense...

:kukoo:But you're also ignoring the upgrade from Perez/Borchard/Ordonez (combined .240) to Dye. Overall, I'd say that just about offsets replacing Lee with Podsednik. They also upgraded offensively at catcher and SS. Overall, IMO they're better offensively than last year.

And while they may hit fewer HR this year, there will be fewer solo shots. Converting some of those solo HR into 2- or 3-run shots will more than make up for the smaller number of HR. Of course, that's the plan. They still have to execute it, but that's always true for any team.

Hangar18
04-07-2005, 02:09 PM
The "problem" with last year's line up was at the top and bottom of the order, not the middle. Guys like Harris couldn't get on base ahead of the big boppers (thus the preponderance of solo home runs) and guys like Alomar and Crede were virtually automatic outs at the bottom of the line up, too.

We were bleeding outs on offense and the pitching staff basically sucked after Buehrle, Garcia and Takatsu. Garland proved we expected too much of him pitching #3, too. That makes for a second-place team in a weak division.

Of course to improve the pitching staff the Sox gave up power, not at the top or bottom of the line up but smack in the middle. That was our strength. We downgraded there to upgrade elsewhere, and presumably the improved pitching staff will make a big difference. So how some people here came to conclude it wasn't a downgrade on offense boggles all reason.

To believe these Luddites you would have to believe the Sox were UPGRADING by trading away Lee for Podsednik straight up! Nevermind the bullpen toss-in for Vizcaino. Nevermind the payroll headroom to sign El Duque and Iguchi. These Luddites would take Podsednik over Lee on a straight swap. Are they closet Brewer fans, too?
:?:

It's insanity and complete bull**** and I can point to countless posts in this thread where these people reveal their true colors. Complete nonsense...

:kukoo:

WOW. I cant add to this, except this is the dog-gone truth.
We Robbed Peter to pay Paul. Instead of Supplementing our team
by adding the needed Top and Bottom of the order Hitters, We
deal away our strength. Dumb. Fill a Hole. Create a Hole.

SOXSINCE'70
04-07-2005, 02:13 PM
Love the comeback.Just don't wait until the 9th inning
on Thursday.It's OK to score a run in innings 1-8.:D: :D:

SOXSINCE'70
04-07-2005, 02:17 PM
Because he has a better offense behind him?

Okay... now remind me again, what kind of offense do the Yankees have? Last time I checked they were a station to station team which loved to cream the baseball deep into the night...

Kinda like the White Sox pre-Podsednik/Iguchi, doncha' think??:dunno: :dunno:

voodoochile
04-07-2005, 02:22 PM
Yea, and look where it's gotten them the past few years...

I hate to say it but they haven't added any new WS trophies since they've started moving toward getting all these guys that can hit 30 plus homeruns but can't bunt or move a runner over to save their life...

And still they've been in the playoffs every year over that time span, won their division something like 10 straight years, played for a pennant a bunch of times and lost in the WS two more times...

It isn't like they've become the DRays now is it?

Lip: I was strictly speaking about the offense and the comment on RJ. He'll win 20 partially because he has a team of big hitters behind him. I realize the differences between the Yankees and Sox.

voodoochile
04-07-2005, 02:25 PM
Kinda like the White Sox pre-Podsednik/Iguchi, doncha' think??:dunno: :dunno:

Um... no... not quite. The Yankees had a better offense than the Sox did last year when the Sox were healthy. Heck last year's Yankee offense was one of the best ever if it had stayed healthy and Giambi had still been able to juice...

Flight #24
04-07-2005, 02:25 PM
The "problem" with last year's line up was at the top and bottom of the order, not the middle. Guys like Harris couldn't get on base ahead of the big boppers (thus the preponderance of solo home runs) and guys like Alomar and Crede were virtually automatic outs at the bottom of the line up, too.

......

Of course to improve the pitching staff the Sox gave up power, not at the top or bottom of the line up but smack in the middle. That was our strength. We downgraded there to upgrade elsewhere, and presumably the improved pitching staff will make a big difference. So how some people here came to conclude it wasn't a downgrade on offense boggles all reason.



I think you virtually answered your own question. As you point out - last year we had power in the middle but zilch at the top & bottom. This year we have less power in the middle, but theoretically (only because the seeason's so young) players at the top & bottom who are light-years ahead of their 2004 counterparts. Thus the totality of the offense in 2005 could be better than in 2004.

Of course, it's not better than if you just added the top & bottom guys to last year's middle, but that only works if you assume that you can increase budget as needed to do that.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-07-2005, 02:33 PM
...Overall, IMO they're better offensively than last year.

That's easy to measure. We'll add up the total runs scored next October and see who is right.
:cool:

Iwritecode
04-07-2005, 02:43 PM
That's easy to measure. We'll add up the total runs scored next October and see who is right.
:cool:

I'd rather add up the total number of wins as that's really the only stat that matters.

The Twins had a "worse" offense than the Sox last year yet still managed to win 9 more games...

Iwritecode
04-07-2005, 02:45 PM
And still they've been in the playoffs every year over that time span, won their division something like 10 straight years, played for a pennant a bunch of times and lost in the WS two more times...

It isn't like they've become the DRays now is it?

No, they are starting to turn into the Red Sox. Almost win the whole thing every year but don't quite make it... :cool:

Ol' No. 2
04-07-2005, 02:46 PM
That's easy to measure. We'll add up the total runs scored next October and see who is right.
:cool:On that, we are in complete agreement.:smile:

fquaye149
04-07-2005, 02:48 PM
Because he has a better offense behind him?

Okay... now remind me again, what kind of offense do the Yankees have? Last time I checked they were a station to station team which loved to cream the baseball deep into the night...

RJ wasn't a great example on my part, but don't turn it into a straw man. what i'm saying is that great pitching can't win without runs being put on the board. Yes when the Sox of the past three years are on, very few teams could match up with them at putting up runs. However, they also would get cold and play corpseball. Just ask E-Lo, who would on avg. get great run support but would still lose a complete game after giving up only 1 run.

I don't know if you ever played high school baseball, but my coach would always tell us the best way to break out of a slump is: BUNT. You get the feeling of putting the bat on the ball and you are helping the team out more than just k'ing or F7ing and getting yourself into a deeper funk. Hopefully by relying less on mashing we can have people like PK and Everett contributing even when they hit their cold streaks.

fquaye149
04-07-2005, 02:51 PM
WOW. I cant add to this, except this is the dog-gone truth.
We Robbed Peter to pay Paul. Instead of Supplementing our team
by adding the needed Top and Bottom of the order Hitters, We
deal away our strength. Dumb. Fill a Hole. Create a Hole.

wait. I forgot that we traded lee for podsednik straight up?

Or was it actually we traded him for Pod, VIZCAINO, and the money to sign hernandez, bolstering our staff by LEAPS and BOUNDS

jabrch
04-07-2005, 02:53 PM
wait. I forgot that we traded lee for podsednik straight up?

Or was it actually we traded him for Pod, VIZCAINO, and the money to sign hernandez, bolstering our staff by LEAPS and BOUNDS

and the $ for AJ too, I think?

voodoochile
04-07-2005, 02:53 PM
No, they are starting to turn into the Red Sox. Almost win the whole thing every year but don't quite make it... :cool:

Sucks to be them?:?:

Sucks to be a fan of them! :rolleyes:

Which would you rather have?

Let's go deeper...

Maybe the reason they have been struggling has NOTHING to do with their offense and something to do with their pitching staff taking a step back from the great staffs of the late 90's...

I feel like I am talking in circles... :wired::nuts::wired::nuts: