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MHOUSE
03-30-2005, 12:17 AM
The Baseball Tonight duo of Harold Reynolds and John Kruk break down the AL Central on Sportscenter. Here's how they went:

Offense: Indians, Tigers
Defense: Twins, Twins
Starting pitching: Indians, Indians
Bullpen: Twins, Twins
Winner: Indians, Twins

I can agree with the Indians having the best offense. The Tigers there? No way. I can concede to the Twins on defense, but I think that we improved a lot. On starting pitching I couldn't believe that not even one of them went with the ChiSox. The Indians still have a lot of questions there and most are guys coming off their career season. I think Joe Nathan is obviously one of the top closers in baseball and second in the AL to Rivera. But top to bottom, we have more depth in the bullpen. The Twins bullpen goes three deep, we can go 8-10 deep there. I still think the Sox will come out on top and the Indians are another year from seriously contending late. We didn't even win one category between the two guys. :angry:

Dice
03-30-2005, 12:25 AM
I just saw it and they didn't even mention the Soxs. It's like we didn't even exists in the division.

Chisox003
03-30-2005, 12:37 AM
I think baseball Tonight is coming on after outside the lines....

I believe its going to be mostly reviewing position by position the Indians and Twins, and a few Tigers references thrown in there...(No Teal)

The Radar
Under

SoxSpeed22
03-30-2005, 12:37 AM
I just saw it and they didn't even mention the Soxs. It's like we didn't even exists in the division.Again
http://web.utk.edu/~bborchar/episodes/episode25/eps25_7.jpg"Keh"
We're kinda used to this. Besides the more I see this the more I want to see the Sox hoisting up a World Series trophy.

rwcescato
03-30-2005, 12:40 AM
I think baseball Tonight is coming on after outside the lines....

I believe its going to be mostly reviewing position by position the Indians and Twins, and a few Tigers references thrown in there...(No Teal)

The Radar
Under

Thats the reason I don't watch the experts anymore. There has to be a reason why they put the White Sox on the 2nd sunday night baseball game. If they think that little about the White Sox, maybe they thought it was the Red Sox they are going to show on April 10th.

Nard
03-30-2005, 12:55 AM
Red Sox. Yankees. Red Sox? Red Sox. Red Sox! Yankees? Red Sox! Red Sox?! Yankees. Yankees. Yankees! Red Sox. Yankees!! Yankees?!

We should be happy they're even talking about the AL central at all.

balke
03-30-2005, 01:08 AM
They don't know a damn thing about this league. They don't know anything about the White Sox. They won't comment, because they don't know. They don't wanna go out on a limb for Contreras or El Duque, cause they could be amazing or horrible. They don't know how we can get better w/o Lee and Maggs.

We have a lot of players that are hard to have faith in, because they aren't locks. We also have a lot of players that could be very dangerous.

A-row
Dye
El Duque
Contreras
Garland
Pods
Thomas
Iguchi
Mccarthy
Uribe
Konerko

They do know Thomas is good, but they don't know if he'll complete the season.

All these players could be really good or really bad. I hesitate to put Konerko on there, but who knows after 03'. A-row is a lock, but few know that. Pods doesn't have the history to say he's going to raise his OBP. You get the idea, noone knows. If things go according to plan, I think we'll be #1-#2. We do have a tough team to evaluate though.

That being said, they could at least evaluate us by saying we have that many question marks.

Plus, they don't take into account addition by subtraction, like losing the Stache, and Koch.

EDIT: AHA! He admitted it at the end of the show. "Can anyone catch the Twins in the Central Peter?" "I think the Indians can..... I don't know how to read the White Sox. They have 5 good starters, I don't know about El Duque and Contreras, they are too tough to read right now". He implied if the rotation was good, we have a chance.

chisoxmike
03-30-2005, 01:27 AM
They don't know a damn thing about this league. They don't know anything about the White Sox. They won't comment, because they don't know. They don't wanna go out on a limb for Contreras or El Duque, cause they could be amazing or horrible. They don't know how we can get better w/o Lee and Maggs.

We have a lot of players that are hard to have faith in, because they aren't locks. We also have a lot of players that could be very dangerous.

A-row
Dye
El Duque
Contreras
Garland
Pods
Thomas
Iguchi
Mccarthy
Uribe
Konerko

They do know Thomas is good, but they don't know if he'll complete the season.

All these players could be really good or really bad. I hesitate to put Konerko on there, but who knows after 03'. A-row is a lock, but few know that. Pods doesn't have the history to say he's going to raise his OBP. You get the idea, noone knows. If things go according to plan, I think we'll be #1-#2. We do have a tough team to evaluate though.

That being said, they could at least evaluate us by saying we have that many question marks.

Plus, they don't take into account addition by subtraction, like losing the Stache, and Koch.

You are right. Who knows, the pitchers have been giving up a boat load of runs this spring. Yes I know, its spring training, but still. What was it, like 60 runs in 5 days or something like that? KW filled the holes, but he filled them with question marks. We dont know who will show up this year with these guys, hell, which team will show up. They haven't been able to put two halfs of a season together since 2000.

doublem23
03-30-2005, 01:40 AM
:yawn

All the BBTN people are good for is regurgitating the same crap that's been spewed all winter... Everyone, for some ungodly reason, is fawning over the Tribe and the Twins have pretty much defied the statheads with their ability to finish 20 games over .500 despite outscoring their opponents by 10 or so runs over the last few years.

If you're looking for fresh, insigtful insight on baseball, the Harold Reynolds and John Kruk and the rest of the talking heads employed by the East Cost Sports Network aren't you're answer.

SpartanSoxFan
03-30-2005, 03:22 AM
None of this should come as a suprise to ANYONE on this board. We should appreciate the fact that we are under the radar.

faneidde
03-30-2005, 07:01 AM
The Indians having the best starting pitching in the AL Central is a joke. They are a distant third to the Twins and White Sox. Although I still give the edge there to the Twinkies cause of that Santana fellow who didn't give up any runs in the second half last year.

Dice
03-30-2005, 09:18 AM
The Indians having the best starting pitching in the AL Central is a joke. They are a distant third to the Twins and White Sox. Although I still give the edge there to the Twinkies cause of that Santana fellow who didn't give up any runs in the second half last year.

I agree with the Indians having the best rotation in the division is a joke. I still think the Soxs staff is better than the Twinkies. Outside of Santana I would take any of the Soxs starters over theirs.

wdelaney72
03-30-2005, 09:23 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/wdelaney72/Cliff_MattDillon.jpg "This negative energy just makes me stronger!"

SoxFan78
03-30-2005, 09:45 AM
I posted this yesterday in the same topic, who cares what those BBTN guys say? I was watching on Monday and they said that Corey Patterson would be a 40/40 guy. Any crew that says that has no credibility in my book.

Dan H
03-30-2005, 09:53 AM
I am not concerned with any pre-season predictions. They don't mean anything. But if the White Sox want some respect, go out and win something. Then maybe someone will pick them in some other pre-season poll.

PAPChiSox729
03-30-2005, 10:08 AM
I agree with the Indians having the best rotation in the division is a joke. I still think the Soxs staff is better than the Twinkies. Outside of Santana I would take any of the Soxs starters over theirs.

Sorry to say it, but Radke is pretty good too. I would take him over Contreras, Garland, and El Duque. But those 3-5 starters for the Twinkies are weak. Just remember that we are Under the Radar.

marlins03
03-30-2005, 12:47 PM
No love from ESPN? welcome to our world we also get 0 respect from ESPN i say we give them a nice big **** burger to eat.

Lip Man 1
03-30-2005, 01:34 PM
Ken Rosenthal from The Sporting News had the perfect comment on the White Sox on his final pre season power poll this week in the print edition:


"As usual the biggest enigma in the American League..."

Truer words were never spoken.

How can you 'predict' what a team will do when they made such a radical makeover? How can you get upset over 'no respect' when the franchise has won an average of 83 games for the past seven seasons?

The fact is that no one... not the fans, the media, even the Sox themselves have a real grasp of what's going to happen this year.

As Dan said if you want respect start winning something of substance and do it more then once every ten years or so. Then you'll get talked about on 'Baseball Tonight.'

Lip

Hangar18
03-30-2005, 03:09 PM
The Baseball Tonight duo of Harold Reynolds and John Kruk break down the AL Central on Sportscenter. Here's how they went:

Offense: Indians, Tigers
Defense: Twins, Twins
Starting pitching: Indians, Indians
Bullpen: Twins, Twins
Winner: Indians, Twins

I can agree with the Indians having the best offense. The Tigers there? No way. :angry:


Very interesting. I can see where they are coming from. The SOX lost
2 very very important hitters in Magglio and CLee, and the guys replacing
them are definite downgrades. The Sox were an Offensive Powerhouse
that simply needed some Tweaking (Speed and Pitching), and instead, foolishly (to some experts) Overhauled their team instead. Our OFFENSE was the One Thing that We could count on to keep us in contention, If we'd only addressed the SPEED and PITCHING situations sooner, we could all
be talking about the 2003 Sox World Series team.
We were soooo close in 2003 from running the table, and again in 2004 but ignoring our weaknesses cost us both years.

balke
03-30-2005, 03:18 PM
Very interesting. I can see where they are coming from. The SOX lost
2 very very important hitters in Magglio and CLee, and the guys replacing
them are definite downgrades. The Sox were an Offensive Powerhouse
that simply needed some Tweaking (Speed and Pitching), and instead, foolishly (to some experts) Overhauled their team instead. Our OFFENSE was the One Thing that We could count on to keep us in contention, If we'd only addressed the SPEED and PITCHING situations sooner, we could all
be talking about the 2003 Sox World Series team.
We were soooo close in 2003 from running the table, and again in 2004 but ignoring our weaknesses cost us both years.

Or had we simply addressed a 5th starter, and kept Frank or Maggs Healthy.

JRIG
03-30-2005, 03:27 PM
The Baseball Tonight duo of Harold Reynolds and John Kruk break down the AL Central on Sportscenter.

Harold Reynolds and John Kruk aren't qualified to break down ice cream flavors at Baskin-Robbins, let alone an actual baseball division.

Don't worry about it.

samram
03-30-2005, 03:39 PM
Harold Reynolds and John Kruk aren't qualified to break down ice cream flavors at Baskin-Robbins, let alone an actual baseball division.

Don't worry about it.

Oh, I think Kruk is plenty qualified to do that. When he walks into Baskin-Robbins, the workers put on riot gear to protect themselves from chocolate-chip shrapnel.

But you're right that they don't what they're talking about when it comes to baseball.

mdep524
03-30-2005, 03:40 PM
I couldn't care less what those tools at BBTN say. If the Sox start winning early, they'll jump on the bandwagon and pretend like they were there all along. :rolleyes:

As for the Indians, while they might be overrated nationally, they are underrated and way too easily dismissed here at WSI. They have a solid team, great young hitters and potentially great pitching. Their starting staff is a lot like ours:

Sabathia and Westbrook are the two "locks," like Buehrle and Garcia. Very solid, dependable anchors for the staff. Cliff Lee is like Contreras: inconsistent, but potentially great. Lee had a great first half last year and a terrible second half. Like Contreras, they don't know which Lee will show up this year. Kevin Millwood is like their Jon Garland: consistent, but nothing extraordinary. Still a decent starting pitcher even though they he be dominant.

Overall, I'd say the Sox staff is a little better (Hernandez > Elarton or whoever they're throwing in the #5 spot), but to say they're not comparable to the Sox is way off.

The Sox bullpen is stronger than the Tribe's by a pretty good margin, and that's where our advantage is.

TheBull19
03-30-2005, 09:45 PM
Starting pitching: Indians, Indians


That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read anywhere, anytime re: any subject matter in my life.

Soxfest
03-30-2005, 09:51 PM
Espn has sucked the Cubs off and hated the White sox since 1980.......NO SUPRISE

scottyl
03-30-2005, 10:10 PM
If you realize the Yankees and Red Sox are not the only teams in the league, you should not watch ESPN for any type of "analysis."

FedEx227
03-30-2005, 10:16 PM
Ken Rosenthal from The Sporting News had the perfect comment on the White Sox on his final pre season power poll this week in the print edition:


"As usual the biggest enigma in the American League..."

Truer words were never spoken.

How can you 'predict' what a team will do when they made such a radical makeover? How can you get upset over 'no respect' when the franchise has won an average of 83 games for the past seven seasons?

The fact is that no one... not the fans, the media, even the Sox themselves have a real grasp of what's going to happen this year.

As Dan said if you want respect start winning something of substance and do it more then once every ten years or so. Then you'll get talked about on 'Baseball Tonight.'

Lip


I was watching/flipping through and overhearing without stopping because of ridiculously annoying show featuring know-nothing hosts Cold Pizza this morning...Ken was on, and Jay Crawford asked who his World Series heroes or something would be and he said Alex Rodriquez from the Yankees and "Billy Wagner, but not from the Phillies, from the Cubs...he'll get traded there and be a hero in Chicago...Led them to the World Series" Even Jay Crawford was laughing at him...

so yeah....probably dont want to take anything he said seriously.

TheBull19
03-30-2005, 10:23 PM
Sabathia and Westbrook are the two "locks," like Buehrle and Garcia. Very solid, dependable anchors for the staff.


No way - Buerhle is head and shoulders better and more reliable than Sabathia, at this point. Yeah, he's got a lot of talent, but reliable he's not. I'd like my ace to be able to throw more than 180-190 innings a year, and not be a constant health risk. Despite throwing 40 to 60 less innings than Buerhle a year, he still has worse numbers. Westbrook is certainly not comparable to either Garcia and Buerhle at this point, as far as a "dependable anchor" goes, based on past performance. He's had one good year after several poor seasons. If he can repeat last year's success, maybe I'd put him in the same category, but he hasn't had consistent success pitching over 200 innings a year like Buerhle and Garcia.

[QOUTE/] Cliff Lee is like Contreras: inconsistent, but potentially great.[/QUOTE]

I can go along w/ that one.

Kevin Millwood is like their Jon Garland: consistent, but nothing extraordinary. Still a decent starting pitcher even though they he be dominant.

Overall, I'd say the Sox staff is a little better (Hernandez > Elarton or whoever they're throwing in the #5 spot), but to say they're not comparable to the Sox is way off.


I'll go along w/ Millwood and Garland being roughly equal, though Millwood is more of an injury risk and moving to the AL might help continue his decline, while Garland seems to be more likely to improve given his age and the fact he's already shown he can consistently throw roughly 200 innings a year somewhat effectively.
Hernandez v. Elarton is a huge drop off, even if we project Hermanson and/or McCarthy to pitch half Hernandez' starts due to injury, it looks like that could make a difference of 5-7 wins right there alone. Given that advantage, along w/ the edge at the top 2 slots and a better bullpen, I'd say its laughable to suggest the Indians have the edge in pitching over the sox, or the twins for that matter. The twin also have a vastly superior bullpen and I'd say though the bottom of their rotations are similar, Santana and Radke give them a strong edge at the top. The way I see it, the best 5 starters in the AL Central are all on the sox and twins, both teams also have the best bullpens and pitching depth in the AL Central. No way can you rank the Indians staff over or equal to either the Sox or Twins.

balke
03-30-2005, 10:42 PM
Millwood has had 2 18 win seasons, and a 17 win season. He's pitched a full season with a 3.24 ERA and 178 K's as recently as 2002.

He's been injured the past two seasons, but he's thrown 200 K's in a season before, and had 125K in 25G last season. he's pretty good, and this would be a rebound year, and a fresh start for him.

I'd like to say he's like Garland, but in actuality he might be the best pitcher on their team when its all said and done. I wouldn't underestimate him.

Westbrook overachieved last season, I think Cliff Lee did as well. They do have a good staff, Millwood might be their best pitcher.

JB98
03-30-2005, 10:54 PM
Millwood has had 2 18 win seasons, and a 17 win season. He's pitched a full season with a 3.24 ERA and 178 K's as recently as 2002.

He's been injured the past two seasons, but he's thrown 200 K's in a season before, and had 125K in 25G last season. he's pretty good, and this would be a rebound year, and a fresh start for him.

I'd like to say he's like Garland, but in actuality he might be the best pitcher on their team when its all said and done. I wouldn't underestimate him.

Westbrook overachieved last season, I think Cliff Lee did as well. They do have a good staff, Millwood might be their best pitcher.

Disagree there. Sabathia is their best pitcher. Millwood was good when he had Leo Mazzone as a pitching coach, but he had two inconsistent years in Philadelphia. The East Coast media think Millwood is a great acquisition for Cleveland. I think he'll get lit up pitching in the American League.

I can't believe the ESPN mopes think Cleveland has the best pitching in the division. My initial reaction was, "Did somebody kill Santana and Radke? Are they dead?" Minnesota has the best pitching the division because of those two guys. Santana is a legit ace, and Radke always pitches his best in the big games.

The Sox staff has the potential to be good, but I'm going to reserve judgement. I know I'm going to get 15-18 wins from Buehrle. I know I'm going to get 12 wins from Garland. I don't what the hell we're going to get from Contreras and El Duque, and for that matter, I'm not sure what kind of year Garcia is going to have. There is a high talent level in our starting rotation, but we'll have to wait and see whether it all pans out.

samram
03-30-2005, 10:57 PM
Millwood has had 2 18 win seasons, and a 17 win season. He's pitched a full season with a 3.24 ERA and 178 K's as recently as 2002.

He's been injured the past two seasons, but he's thrown 200 K's in a season before, and had 125K in 25G last season. he's pretty good, and this would be a rebound year, and a fresh start for him.

I'd like to say he's like Garland, but in actuality he might be the best pitcher on their team when its all said and done. I wouldn't underestimate him.

Westbrook overachieved last season, I think Cliff Lee did as well. They do have a good staff, Millwood might be their best pitcher.

Millwood put up great numbers when Leo Mazzonne was his pitching coach. Since then, he hasn't been that good. He pitched in a hitter's park last season, and he's pitching in one this season. I wouldn't look for a lot of improvement.

ChiSoxRowand
03-31-2005, 12:10 AM
The Baseball Tonight duo of Harold Reynolds and John Kruk break down the AL Central on Sportscenter. Here's how they went:

Offense: Indians, Tigers
Defense: Twins, Twins
Starting pitching: Indians, Indians
Bullpen: Twins, Twins
Winner: Indians, Twins

I can agree with the Indians having the best offense. The Tigers there? No way. I can concede to the Twins on defense, but I think that we improved a lot. On starting pitching I couldn't believe that not even one of them went with the ChiSox. The Indians still have a lot of questions there and most are guys coming off their career season. I think Joe Nathan is obviously one of the top closers in baseball and second in the AL to Rivera. But top to bottom, we have more depth in the bullpen. The Twins bullpen goes three deep, we can go 8-10 deep there. I still think the Sox will come out on top and the Indians are another year from seriously contending late. We didn't even win one category between the two guys. :angry:

I agree with most of the stuff you said. One thing I don't agree with is that we have a better bullpen than the Twins. We improved the pen a lot, but the Twins still have a great closer in Nathan, A great setup man in Rincon, and good relievers in Romero, Crain, and Balfour.