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View Full Version : Bruce Levinline Gets on Soapbox, says Fans equally to Blame for Steroid Mess


Hangar18
03-28-2005, 06:40 PM
Listened to the Baseball Today show with Bruce Levineline and John Rooney
yesterday. He fielded a few questions about the ongoing Steroid nonsense
and he got on his soapbox and said the Fans were equally to blame (interesting)
because we were the ones going Hog Wild watching guys like Sammy hitting 66 homers. He said the Fans and the Media were equally to blame in all of this,
but the whole thing reeked of Blaming-the-victim. To be sure, some fans
did ruin things for the rest of us (notably the fans 8 miles north) but I know for
a fact there were a chosen few who thought the "sammy and mark have saved baseball" was pure BullJunk, and that baseball Wasnt Saved but probably worse off, and I was one of them. The Pirates continue to give their players away etc etc. He said the Fans ate it all up, and should be ashamed of themselves for the way they behaved, and hes partly right in a miniscule way (I simply look 8miles north to see what he might be talking about)

But to not Acknowledge the Medias part in all of this nonsense ........
is simply astounding to me.

Fredsox
03-28-2005, 06:56 PM
We went hog wild because we believed that it was true. The fans made the base assumption that no one was cheating, and in retrospect, perhaps we should have known better. I think your statement that he's "blaming the victim" is completely accurate.

Sometimes I think Levine is really interesting but on this whole steroid thing, he's been a bit of an ostrich. He's been outspoken that Congress should mind it's own business but he ignores that baseball (players, owners, and MEDIA) did nothing for 10 years. Now Congress is leaving them alone again so he needs to find someone else to blame. I guess we're it.

Hangar18
03-28-2005, 07:10 PM
We went hog wild because we believed that it was true. The fans made the base assumption that no one was cheating, and in retrospect, perhaps we should have known better. I think your statement that he's "blaming the victim" is completely accurate.




Thats fine for him to Blame the Fans. But dont lump me in that category Brucie, save it for the north-side sheep-like imbeciles.
Had I been the next caller, I wouldve told old Brucie how did the Fans get Hog Wild? The Media. Im sure he wouldve shrugged me off, and the call
wouldve turned into a What-came-1st-Chicken-Or-Egg argument, but Theyre the ones that kept saying "baseball was saved", and to "look at the fans going wild" (in SF, Chicago, StLouis). I knew something was amiss and I was NEVER going wild with sudden interest. Little did I know the Media would turn its allegiance once the other shoe fell. The Media helped immensely, turn this thing into a circus, and we'll never be able to look at the stats the same.
For the Media (especially the Chicago Media HAHHAHAHAHAHAHA on them)
theyre still wiping Pie off their faces and were made to look just as Dumb as the Fans, yet somehow they wont admit it right Mr. Kiley? Mr. Murphy?
Mr Giangreco?

Again, Bud Selig and The League of Extraordinarily Dumb Gentlemans Forward Thinking are to blame for this. Levineline is a Bozo, for only telling you 1/2 the story.

Fenway
03-28-2005, 07:17 PM
Fans were on to Jose as early as 1988 remember the STERIODS chants during the ALCS

I wanted to believe 1998 was on the level.

MLB started to see that the Home Run Derby was becoming as hard a ticket during the All Star Game as the actual game.

Since 1998 was an expansion year we figured the totals were inflated ( just as they were in 1961 )

We as fans love this game and no matter what we keep coming back. That is the only reason Bud Selig wasn't able to kill baseball.

Hangar18
03-28-2005, 07:24 PM
We as fans love this game and no matter what we keep coming back. That is the only reason Bud Selig wasn't able to kill baseball.


All good points Fenway, some fans werent duped. but lets not encourage
Bud heh heh

veeter
03-28-2005, 07:27 PM
Anyone walking around in 1998 saying, to themselves or to someone else, that Shammy and McGwire are saving baseball were Cub fans or, pardon my redundancy, stupid fans. Baseball was already back from a fan standpoint in 1998. Ironically, the fans having the toughest time forgiving the strike were White Sox fans. I say ironic because the Sox appear to be completely clean of 'roids. Meanwhile the country watched two steroid freaks crank center cut fastballs all summer. To Levine: Sox fans can't be to blame because we were rooting against Sosa and were rooting for a clean team. Levine, IMO, knows no more than any of us on WSI. Sure he has sources but that is his job. Put anyone from here in his position we could do as good a job or better.

StepsInSC
03-28-2005, 07:38 PM
Anyone walking around in 1998 saying, to themselves or to someone else, that Shammy and McGwire are saving baseball were Cub fans or, pardon my redundancy, stupid fans. Baseball was already back from a fan standpoint in 1998.

Huh? Baseball has never fully recooperated since the strike. They were far from saving baseball (nothing saved baseball, baseball saved the players IMHO), but I think the whole thing was good for the game at the time in the sense that it created a lot of excitement about the sport.

veeter
03-28-2005, 07:53 PM
Huh? Baseball has never fully recooperated since the strike. They were far from saving baseball (nothing saved baseball, baseball saved the players IMHO), but I think the whole thing was good for the game at the time in the sense that it created a lot of excitement about the sport. In what sense has baseball not recovered? I guess the Sosa/ McGwire thing was good for attracting casual fans and creating excitment. I recognize these people make up the largest portion of sports fans. But as part of a core of White Sox fans that are knowledeable and ,dare I say purists, I resented the excitement the HR race created while a team like the Braves who've realed of 14 division wins take a back seat. My loathing for Sosa and all he stood for jaded my opinion but I'm not into the "wow" factor. But I repectfully disagree with the thought that baseball has not recovered.

Ol' No. 2
03-28-2005, 08:25 PM
Listened to the Baseball Today show with Bruce Levineline and John Rooney
yesterday. He fielded a few questions about the ongoing Steroid nonsense
and he got on his soapbox and said the Fans were equally to blame (interesting)
because we were the ones going Hog Wild watching guys like Sammy hitting 66 homers. He said the Fans and the Media were equally to blame in all of this,
but the whole thing reeked of Blaming-the-victim. To be sure, some fans
did ruin things for the rest of us (notably the fans 8 miles north) but I know for
a fact there were a chosen few who thought the "sammy and mark have saved baseball" was pure BullJunk, and that baseball Wasnt Saved but probably worse off, and I was one of them. The Pirates continue to give their players away etc etc. He said the Fans ate it all up, and should be ashamed of themselves for the way they behaved, and hes partly right in a miniscule way (I simply look 8miles north to see what he might be talking about)

But to not Acknowledge the Medias part in all of this nonsense ........
is simply astounding to me.Right. It's all the fans' fault. Blah, blah, blah. Of course, the media's constant gushing over how baseball was 'saved' was in NO WAY responsible. The media's utter failure to do their job in investigating what was obvious to anyone who cared to see was in NO WAY responsible.

Where the hell was Bruce Levine when this was going on? I'll tell you where. With his nose six inches up Sosa's ass so he could get his story easier, that's where.

Fenway
03-28-2005, 08:51 PM
. Baseball was already back from a fan standpoint in 1998. Ironically, the fans having the toughest time forgiving the strike were White Sox fans. .

I think I could make an argument that fans in Canada were much less forgiving.

Exhibit A Montreal
Exhibit B Toronto

Montreal may well have won the whole thing in 1994. Instead with Selig's blessing Claude Brochu figured out away for the Expos to make money with a limited payroll.

Then Loria was brought in by Selig and he froze the French partners out. Without corporate support in Montreal the franchise was doomed.

Montreal WAS a decent baseball town that was stuck with an awful stadium they didn't want and then other forces out of their control. It certainly was and still is a better market than Tampa Bay.

RKMeibalane
03-28-2005, 08:54 PM
Typical media dolt.

Everything is the fans' fault!

When are people going to take responsibility for their actions? This is way past the ridiculous stage.

StepsInSC
03-28-2005, 09:22 PM
In what sense has baseball not recovered? I guess the Sosa/ McGwire thing was good for attracting casual fans and creating excitment. I recognize these people make up the largest portion of sports fans. But as part of a core of White Sox fans that are knowledeable and ,dare I say purists, I resented the excitement the HR race created while a team like the Braves who've realed of 14 division wins take a back seat. My loathing for Sosa and all he stood for jaded my opinion but I'm not into the "wow" factor. But I repectfully disagree with the thought that baseball has not recovered.

I was thinking in terms of attendance. However, IIRC 2004 MLB attendance was over 70 million for the first time since the strike, so on those terms yes MLB seems to finally have recovered.

Clarkdog
03-28-2005, 09:35 PM
Right. It's all the fans' fault. Blah, blah, blah. Of course, the media's constant gushing over how baseball was 'saved' was in NO WAY responsible. The media's utter failure to do their job in investigating what was obvious to anyone who cared to see was in NO WAY responsible.

Where the hell was Bruce Levine when this was going on? I'll tell you where. With his nose six inches up Sosa's ass so he could get his story easier, that's where.

You are absolutely right #2.

Didn't anyone in the media think it was a little odd that no one had hit 60 HR in more than 30 seasons with the single season record standing just as long, and then all of a sudden guys are hitting 60 every season in consecutive seasons with the new mark of 70 being broken just two (?) seasons after it was set?

No one in the media was the least bit curious as to why a little guy like Brett Boone was hitting them out like giants like Jimmy Fox or Hank Greenburg?

Methinks the sports media is less about in-depth reporting and more about brown-nosing idolization.

Yet the steriod thing is our fault. Right.

Jerko
03-28-2005, 10:48 PM
Bruce Levine has ruined Sunday morning radio for me, the only time I really get to listen. I guess I'll just have to tune into the Score's continuous coverage of commercials now. No 2. hit it right on the head; Levine was so far up Sosa's ass in 1998 that Sammy could smell the "just for men" in his hair.

StillMissOzzie
03-28-2005, 11:40 PM
You are absolutely right #2.

Didn't anyone in the media think it was a little odd that no one had hit 60 HR in more than 30 seasons with the single season record standing just as long, and then all of a sudden guys are hitting 60 every season in consecutive seasons with the new mark of 70 being broken just two (?) seasons after it was set?

No one in the media was the least bit curious as to why a little guy like Brett Boone was hitting them out like giants like Jimmy Fox or Hank Greenburg?

Methinks the sports media is less about in-depth reporting and more about brown-nosing idolization.

Yet the steriod thing is our fault. Right.

This has turned into an exercise in preaching to the choir, but I agree as well. The fans are the duped victims, the juiced players are the con men, aidded and abetted by that great conflict of interest that is the sports media. The fans are not the ones to be asking the hard questions, that's what we rely on the news folks for.

SMO
:gulp:

wdelaney72
03-29-2005, 07:48 AM
As a beat reporter, I like Bruce Levine, but his opinions to me are worth nothing. This is the same guy who has referred to Jerry Manual and Jimy Williams as "great baseball men" and "quality managers" - after they had both been fired.

The media is in a tough position for this whole thing. They're supposed to be reporting the story and potential sterroid use back in '98 would have definitely been a story, however, they all know if they had blown the whistle on the sterroids, they'd never have gotten another interview again and they could also have been quietly removed. That being said, they're job is to report facts, not provide interviews. You cannot blame the fans for being naiive. I can honestly say back in '98, I was enjoying the HR chase and did not even consider sterroids an issue. Had the media brought this to our attention back then, fans might have reacted differently. I know I would have.

The fact is, the media is privy to a lot more information than the fans are. They're in the clubhouses, they're around the players in a way the fans are not. I'm sure a handful of them had their suspicions and turned the other way. That carries a lot more blame than the average ignorant fan.

Let's not be so naiive in this and blame the Urinal fans, either. If Sosa was hitting all of those home runs in a White Sox uniform, many of us would have acted the same way. We'd have shown Sosa the same kind of love at the Cell. I just think that as a whole, we as Sox fans would have still been more concerned with winning the division and making the playoffs.

Ol' No. 2
03-29-2005, 09:10 AM
As a beat reporter, I like Bruce Levine, but his opinions to me are worth nothing. This is the same guy who has referred to Jerry Manual and Jimy Williams as "great baseball men" and "quality managers" - after they had both been fired.

The media is in a tough position for this whole thing. They're supposed to be reporting the story and potential sterroid use back in '98 would have definitely been a story, however, they all know if they had blown the whistle on the sterroids, they'd never have gotten another interview again and they could also have been quietly removed. That being said, they're job is to report facts, not provide interviews. You cannot blame the fans for being naiive. I can honestly say back in '98, I was enjoying the HR chase and did not even consider sterroids an issue. Had the media brought this to our attention back then, fans might have reacted differently. I know I would have.

The fact is, the media is privy to a lot more information than the fans are. They're in the clubhouses, they're around the players in a way the fans are not. I'm sure a handful of them had their suspicions and turned the other way. That carries a lot more blame than the average ignorant fan.

Let's not be so naiive in this and blame the Urinal fans, either. If Sosa was hitting all of those home runs in a White Sox uniform, many of us would have acted the same way. We'd have shown Sosa the same kind of love at the Cell. I just think that as a whole, we as Sox fans would have still been more concerned with winning the division and making the playoffs.I should point out that it was a reporter DOING HIS JOB who first broke the story about McGwire taking Andro. But you're right. There's a built-in conflict of interest. I don't know the fate of the reporter who blew the whistle on McGwire, but I'm guessing he never got another interview. But that's not an excuse. Reporters need to do their jobs. If none of them were suspicious about baseballs suddenly flying out of parks like popcorn, they should be in another line of work. There were plenty of fans who understood perfectly well what was going on.

Irishsox1
03-29-2005, 09:41 AM
I disagree 100% with Bruce Levine on this one. I question if baseball really needed to be saved by a homerun chase. If the '98 homerun chase didn't happen, would baseball have folded or would it be not as popular?...I doubt it. The game of baseball came back after the White Sox threw the world series, it overcame segregation, made it through free agency, astroturf and cookie cutter stadiums, etc., etc., etc.

As for 1998, the reporters are the ones who pushed the McGuire/Sosa contest while looking the other way when it came to there obvious steroid use. When an athlete is popular and in demand, the press will look the other way as to guarantee an interview, but as soon as that athlete is retired, then the knives come out. During the '98 season, I was saying all along that Sosa was on 'roids, and McGuire was found to have andro in his locker. The Bruce Levines of the press chose to not call McGuire and Sosa out on the 'roids issue and everyone wants to know why and he's blaming the fans. What a scum bag.

The majority of the fault falls on the players union for objecting to steroid testing, then the owners for not demanding steroid testing, then the press for not pointing out that MLB had no steroid testing and that players like Sosa and Bonds tripled in size and then the fans, but only the ones who continue to support the steroid users.

Hangar18
03-29-2005, 11:07 AM
In what sense has baseball not recovered? .......................... But I repectfully disagree with the thought that baseball has not recovered.


Pittsburgh Pirates Fiasco. Montreal Expo Fiasco.