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Fenway
03-28-2005, 04:41 PM
Is there an East Coast "bias" when it comes to media coverage? Of course for a very good reason...population. Population translates into ratings and selling newspapers and drived up advertising rates. That is the nature of the beast.

Yet in 2003 what team drew the most people on the road after the Yankees? It was San Francisco because of Bonds.

Chicago fans badmouth the East Coast media but I think that is in part because they are jealous of the coverage baseball and other sports get back east compared to what Chicago media offers.

According to the AP sports editors the Top 10 sports section on a daily basis are

Boston Globe
Chicago Tribune
The Dallas Morning News
Houston Chronicle
Los Angeles Times
New York Times
Orlando Sentinel
St. Petersburg Times
USA Today
Washington Post
and on
Sunday

Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Boston Globe
The Dallas Morning News
Fort Worth Star-Telegram
Kansas City Star
Los Angeles Times
Miami Herald
Minneapolis Star Tribune
Newark Star-Ledger
Newsday

for special event coverage
Boston Globe
The Dallas Morning News
Fort Worth Star-Telegram
Indianapolis Star
Kansas City Star
Miami Herald
Minneapolis Star Tribune
New York Daily News
Orlando Sentinel
Washington Post

Chicago as the #3 market should be better than it is. The sports sections here rely far too much on wire service stories. The Sun-Times could easily topple the Tribune but they don't seem to care.

The 2 all sports stations are lacking as well. They don't seem to be able to attract the guests that WFAN, WEEI or WIP do on a regular basis.


People here also point out that the Red Sox "bought" their world championship. They have no choice but to spend as they know the Yankees will.

The irony of the Red Sox situation is that NESN was inspired by Eddie Einhorn who told then owner Buddy LeRioux that his Sportsvision model would work in Boston with one team. Then the Red Sox never sold NESN off to Charles Dolan and his FSN empire and now it maybe worth more than the team itself.

Don't begrudge the Red Sox for spending money to win.

samram
03-28-2005, 05:01 PM
When people here refer to the "East Coast" bias, they're referring mainly to the way ESPN covers sports, especially baseball, with its seeming Yanks/Red Sox obsession, which basically stops me from watching most of their programming. Hell, I think Bob Klapisch (writer on ESPN.com) is employed to only write about the Yanks, and we all know where Gammons's heart lies. I think their college basketball coverage is an east coast lovefest as well, especially when it comes to the ACC (and the Big East with Digger).

We know the sports media in Chicago sucks- there's several threads a day mentioning that. However, I don't see what that has to do with the national media (ESPN for all intents and purposes) having an east coast bias.

Fenway
03-28-2005, 05:10 PM
Here is the funny thing

In Boston ESPN is considered pro New York

In NY it is pro Boston

I can see in Chicago it is "We Don'T Care"

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/refreshmap.adp?z=3&rand=7289

ChiWhiteSox1337
03-28-2005, 05:13 PM
Wow...The Chicago Tribune actually cracked one of the top 10 lists? I think that's just shows the sad state of the sports media in general. I thought it was only bad in Chicago...

soxfan26
03-28-2005, 05:40 PM
Is there an East Coast "bias" when it comes to media coverage?

Chicago fans badmouth the East Coast media but I think that is in part because they are jealous of the coverage baseball and other sports get back east compared to what Chicago media offers.

So why not post 3-4 threads per week to further magnify the East Coast for us? Some of us come here to escape the bias, so you should not be suprised when you are occasionaly checked by an angry White Sox fan who is tired of hearing about the Red Sox and Yankees.

Don't begrudge the Red Sox for spending money to win.

I myself begrudge you for bringing this **** to a WHITE SOX fan site.

Rocky Soprano
03-28-2005, 05:56 PM
Amen soxfan26!

I don't care if this thread is in the right forum, I get tired of all the Red Sox crap.

Chisox003
03-28-2005, 06:14 PM
:threadsucks

.....And so does East coast media

I think the roadhouse is waiting for this one

(P.S. Fenway, we like Carl Everett here :gulp: )

Fenway
03-28-2005, 06:21 PM
Hell, I think Bob Klapisch (writer on ESPN.com) is employed to only write about the Yanks, and we all know where Gammons's heart lies. .

Klapisch is a former Yankees beat writer and now columnist for the Bergen Record. Sean McAdam from the Providence Journal writes for ESPN.com on Boston.

http://www.northjersey.com/topic.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2JnlyaXJ 5N2Y3MzdmN3ZxZWVFRXl5MjY4

NSSoxFan
03-28-2005, 07:08 PM
:threadblows:

I don't believe in dinosaurs!

SoxSpeed22
03-28-2005, 07:33 PM
:threadsucks

.....And so does East coast media

I think the roadhouse is waiting for this one

(P.S. Fenway, we like Carl Everett here :gulp: ) I think ECB applies to college sports much more than it does for pro. ESPN, as we all know, is the main source of ECB. I spent this month throwin' up all that ACC Kool-Aid that ESPN force-fed me during the conference tournaments. The only sign of ECB in pro sports is the whole Blow Sox-Yankmees thing. The Chicago media doesn't overhype everyone as much as the NY media, except maybe the Cubs, but that's it.

Fenway
03-28-2005, 07:58 PM
You mention the ACC which we don't consider an east coast thing ( more south east ) This may sound odd given that Boston College is moving to the ACC but I will agree that the Big Ten and C-USA got little respect. A lot of that was the RPI which obviously wasn't quite on the money. But I do remember ESPN was shocked that Louisville was a #4 seed.

Of the many books out there I would recommend A Tale of Two Cities (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1592287042/royalrooterof-20/002-0020201-4433652?%5Fencoding=UTF8&camp=1789&link%5Fcode=xm2) by Tony Massarotti and John Harper. They go into great detail the pressure the media in both New York and Boston face and I think it would surprise you to see how much garbage their editors make them go through.

Boston sports media is simply NUTS. The website bostonsportsmedia.com can give you a quick sample. Just the idea that WEEI is the second highest rated radio station in the market after all news WBZ is in a way frightening.

http://www.radioandrecords.com/RRRatings/DetailsPage.aspx?MID=35&RY=2005&RQ=1&MP=1&OTHER=2&MN=Boston&MS=MA&MR=9&12P=3878000&UP=3/1/2005%2012:00:00%20AM&SU=CM&BPER=6.1&HPER=6.1&OPER=&NSD=3/29/2005%2012:00:00%20AM&CE=0

I am sure most of you would rather see Tampa Bay vs Texas come Sunday night than Boston/NYY.

Lip Man 1
03-28-2005, 11:29 PM
Fenway:

One thing you may not realize about many (dare I say most) Chicagoans is that we are very, very provincial.

In broad general terms the best way to put this is as follows using myself as an example. If the Sox aren't playing on ESPN Sunday Night Baseball frankly I am not going to sit and spend three hours watching two teams that I don't care as much about.

Honestly.... I don't care if it's Yankees / Red Sox or Reds / Pirates. I don't care enough to watch an entire game. I may check in every hour or so to get a score or if I find out a guy's pitching a no hitter tune in but I can honestly tell you I haven't watched a complete MLB game if it didn't involve the White Sox probably since I was a kid. And that includes the post-season.

I love the White Sox....I don't care that much for baseball without them.

I am the same way with the NFL (although I'll watch the playoffs games and the Super Bowl completely.) I haven't watched a complete NBA game since Jordan retired and the Bulls fell apart and as far as the NHL....well.....

That's why 'national' sports talk radio never made a dent in the Chicago market and never will... because of the fact that most Chicagoans don't give a damn about sports if it doesn't involve their teams.

Chicago is a pretty unique market in that respect and which is also why ratings for national events always find Chicago ranked near the bottom of major markets when it comes to things like the World series, NBA playoffs etc.

Lip

DrCrawdad
03-29-2005, 01:34 AM
It's ironic to me if Cub fans complain about East Coast Media Bias. Funny, they don't seem to notice or care about Cubbie media bias. When most Cubbie fans hear about the media biased to the Cubbies, they will usually say it's just Sox fans complaining.

Here's what I notice about many of the people who cover the Sox, outside of Sullivan, they are Cub fans. Whereas the guys who cover the Sox are mostly non-Sox fans. I think the Cubbie fandom of these reporters is reflected in their reports. Often they'll read like stories from a fanzine. Even the much vaunted Stone is guilty of this.

Paul Sullivan, Sox fan covering the Cubs.
Dan McGrath, Cub fan and personal friend of Dusty.
Mark Gonzales, Cubune Sox beat writer, not a Sox fan.
Mike Kiley, Sun-Times Cubs beat writer, Cubs fan.
Doug Padilla, Sun-Times Sox beat writer, ? fan.
George Oftman, SCORE baseball reporter, Cubs fan.
Steve Stone, SCORE baseball commenter, Cubs fan.
Bruce LeVineLine, ESPN baseball reporter, Cubs fan.
Scot Gregor, Daily Herald Sox beat writer, ? fan.
Bruce Miles, Daily Herald Cubs beat writer, Cubs fan.
Barry Rozner, Daily Herald sports columnist, Cubs fan.

Cub fans in general don't want criticism of their team. They want boosterism. I don't want bleary eyed boosters covering the Sox, as is the case with the Cubs. But if Cub fans are going to complain about East Coast Bias, then they need to admit what's going on here.

Moses_Scurry
03-29-2005, 08:20 AM
Fenway:

One thing you may not realize about many (dare I say most) Chicagoans is that we are very, very provincial.

In broad general terms the best way to put this is as follows using myself as an example. If the Sox aren't playing on ESPN Sunday Night Baseball frankly I am not going to sit and spend three hours watching two teams that I don't care as much about.

Honestly.... I don't care if it's Yankees / Red Sox or Reds / Pirates. I don't care enough to watch an entire game. I may check in every hour or so to get a score or if I find out a guy's pitching a no hitter tune in but I can honestly tell you I haven't watched a complete MLB game if it didn't involve the White Sox probably since I was a kid. And that includes the post-season.

I love the White Sox....I don't care that much for baseball without them.

I am the same way with the NFL (although I'll watch the playoffs games and the Super Bowl completely.) I haven't watched a complete NBA game since Jordan retired and the Bulls fell apart and as far as the NHL....well.....

That's why 'national' sports talk radio never made a dent in the Chicago market and never will... because of the fact that most Chicagoans don't give a damn about sports if it doesn't involve their teams.

Chicago is a pretty unique market in that respect and which is also why ratings for national events always find Chicago ranked near the bottom of major markets when it comes to things like the World series, NBA playoffs etc.

Lip

I'm the exact same way. I just assumed everybody was like this. The extent of my viewing the ALCS last year was in the newspaper boxscore. However, on the rare occasion that the Sox are on TV here in Indy, I'll catch the entire game, even if they are playing the D-Rays!

samram
03-29-2005, 08:23 AM
Fenway:

One thing you may not realize about many (dare I say most) Chicagoans is that we are very, very provincial.

In broad general terms the best way to put this is as follows using myself as an example. If the Sox aren't playing on ESPN Sunday Night Baseball frankly I am not going to sit and spend three hours watching two teams that I don't care as much about.

Honestly.... I don't care if it's Yankees / Red Sox or Reds / Pirates. I don't care enough to watch an entire game. I may check in every hour or so to get a score or if I find out a guy's pitching a no hitter tune in but I can honestly tell you I haven't watched a complete MLB game if it didn't involve the White Sox probably since I was a kid. And that includes the post-season.

I love the White Sox....I don't care that much for baseball without them.

I am the same way with the NFL (although I'll watch the playoffs games and the Super Bowl completely.) I haven't watched a complete NBA game since Jordan retired and the Bulls fell apart and as far as the NHL....well.....

That's why 'national' sports talk radio never made a dent in the Chicago market and never will... because of the fact that most Chicagoans don't give a damn about sports if it doesn't involve their teams.

Chicago is a pretty unique market in that respect and which is also why ratings for national events always find Chicago ranked near the bottom of major markets when it comes to things like the World series, NBA playoffs etc.

Lip

Fair enough, Lip, but writing as a Chicagoan who does watch games without the involvement of a Chicago team (if there's a Dodgers-Padres or Mariners-Angels game on Wednesday night baseball, I'm one of those up until 1 watching it), I still think there's a bias, and it's not only those in Chicago that think so. People in this part of the country comment on how there's way too much Yankees/Red Sox coverage, and most don't even care about baseball.

I refuse to watch Yanks or Red Sox games (unless it's the playoffs, which is becoming an unfortunate annual event, but it's the only thing on at that point) because I can't stand the Derek-Jeter-leaning-on-the-dugout-rail shots or the Curt Schilling "please-show-everyone-how-much-pain-I'm-in" shots, etc. Furthermore, I really can't stand the extensive post-game coverage given to their matchups, even those in April or May. My guess is that maybe 15-18% of all baseball fans root for either of those teams, and far more despise both. Therefore, the decision to give so much coverage to two teams which draw the ire or disinterest of 82-85% of a prospective audience can really only be driven by two things- delusion or bias.

SoxFan78
03-29-2005, 10:08 AM
No east coast bias? Then explain last year when they showed the first game between the Yankees and Boston on NATIONAL TELEVISION???

What about the Boston Red Sox being on Queer Eye?
What about Joe Torre, George Steinbrenner, Derek Jeter on Visa Commercials?
What about Derek Jeter being on SNL?

Fenway, I don't mind your posts when you try to slip in some Boston insight on our situations. But don't deny for one second that you guys dont get at least double the coverage then us here in the Midwest.

Lip Man 1
03-29-2005, 11:07 AM
Crawdad:

I can't really comment on your 'who's / who' except for the following. Take it for what it's worth.

According to Bob Vanderberg, associate sports editor of the Tribune / Sox author and fan, McGrath was born and raised in Harvey. Went to St. Leo high school and is a White Sox fan.

Also one question, Gonzales has only been on the job for a few weeks.. how do you know he's a Cubs fan? I thought he was from Arizona or someplece out West?

Lip

Paulwny
03-29-2005, 11:18 AM
No east coast bias? Then explain last year when they showed the first game between the Yankees and Boston on NATIONAL TELEVISION???

What about the Boston Red Sox being on Queer Eye?
What about Joe Torre, George Steinbrenner, Derek Jeter on Visa Commercials?
What about Derek Jeter being on SNL?

Fenway, I don't mind your posts when you try to slip in some Boston insight on our situations. But don't deny for one second that you guys dont get at least double the coverage then us here in the Midwest.

Its all about tv ratings, which equals $$$. The yankmees are the most famous/infamous team in mlb. Attendance always increases in cities where they play because they're either loved or hated by most baseball fans. TV ratings are always higher when the yanks are playing, especially against the Red Sox.
Non-baseball fans recognize the names Steinbrenner, Torre, Jeter. That's the reason they receive offers for comercials. > 80% of non baseball fans have no idea who Ozzie Guillen is.

DrCrawdad
03-29-2005, 12:53 PM
Crawdad:

I can't really comment on your 'who's / who' except for the following. Take it for what it's worth.

According to Bob Vanderberg, associate sports editor of the Tribune / Sox author and fan, McGrath was born and raised in Harvey. Went to St. Leo high school and is a White Sox fan.

Also one question, Gonzales has only been on the job for a few weeks.. how do you know he's a Cubs fan? I thought he was from Arizona or someplece out West?

Lip

Here's what I said about Gonzales: "Mark Gonzales, Cubune Sox beat writer, not a Sox fan."

I didn't know that McGrath was born and raised in Harvey. That's interesting to me as I was raised in Harvey too. However from what McGrath has written about the Cubs you'd never know he was a Sox fan as he has his nose permanently fixed in Dusty's butt.

I do take it for what it's worth and what it's worth to me is that very many people who report on the Cubs clearly are Cubs fans and their reports reflect that. These guys are not reporting from a neutral point of view. On the other hand, the guys who cover the Sox are not Sox fans and their reports reflect that.

If Cub fans are going to talk about media bias, they need to fess up about the homers they have covering them.

Oh, and one guy I left off the list, Les Grobstein is a Cub fan too.

Fenway
03-29-2005, 04:40 PM
No east coast bias? Then explain last year when they showed the first game between the Yankees and Boston on NATIONAL TELEVISION???

What about the Boston Red Sox being on Queer Eye?

What about Joe Torre, George Steinbrenner, Derek Jeter on Visa Commercials?
What about Derek Jeter being on SNL?

Fenway, I don't mind your posts when you try to slip in some Boston insight on our situations. But don't deny for one second that you guys dont get at least double the coverage then us here in the Midwest.

Is there a big New York City bias? You better believe it. Do you think Buckner's error would have been replayed 3 billion times if it happened against PITTSBURGH?

New York is a world unto itself with only Los Angeles coming close. As native New Yorkers point out There is New York and everyplace else is Bridgeport.

The networks are based in New York ( except Fox which is LA )

The Red Sox by themselves do not drive this.

Fenway
03-29-2005, 04:45 PM
Same applies to Boston, if our teams not in it are ratings are in the tank as well.

I suspect that one reason why Chicago newspapers are lacking is that it is next to impossible for most Chicagoans to see another paper on a regular basis. In the East you can get Boston papers in DC, Philly papers in Boston and New York papers are everywhere. That in itself raises the bar.

Fenway:

One thing you may not realize about many (dare I say most) Chicagoans is that we are very, very provincial.

In broad general terms the best way to put this is as follows using myself as an example. If the Sox aren't playing on ESPN Sunday Night Baseball frankly I am not going to sit and spend three hours watching two teams that I don't care as much about.

Honestly.... I don't care if it's Yankees / Red Sox or Reds / Pirates. I don't care enough to watch an entire game. I may check in every hour or so to get a score or if I find out a guy's pitching a no hitter tune in but I can honestly tell you I haven't watched a complete MLB game if it didn't involve the White Sox probably since I was a kid. And that includes the post-season.

I love the White Sox....I don't care that much for baseball without them.

I am the same way with the NFL (although I'll watch the playoffs games and the Super Bowl completely.) I haven't watched a complete NBA game since Jordan retired and the Bulls fell apart and as far as the NHL....well.....

That's why 'national' sports talk radio never made a dent in the Chicago market and never will... because of the fact that most Chicagoans don't give a damn about sports if it doesn't involve their teams.

Chicago is a pretty unique market in that respect and which is also why ratings for national events always find Chicago ranked near the bottom of major markets when it comes to things like the World series, NBA playoffs etc.

Lip

TommyJohn
03-29-2005, 05:39 PM
Do you think Buckner's error would have been replayed 3 billion times if it happened against PITTSBURGH?

Well, yes. We have seen Fisk's home run replayed 3 billion times, and that came
against Cincinnati.

Fenway
03-29-2005, 06:06 PM
Well, yes. We have seen Fisk's home run replayed 3 billion times, and that came
against Cincinnati.

touche

"Game tied, 6-6. Darcy pitching. Fisk takes high and inside, ball one. Freddie Lynn on deck. There have been numerous heroics tonight, both sides. The 0-1 delivery to Fisk. He swings. Long drive, left field! If it stays fair, it's gone! Home run! The Red Sox win! And the Series is tied, three games apiece!" -- Ned Martin

http://reds.enquirer.com/img/photos/2000/01/011200fisk.jpg

Fake Chet Lemon
03-29-2005, 10:01 PM
Ok Fenway, population...ratings- all reasons for the bias. But who cares WHY there is a bias, our point is that THERE IS one. If they'd just be honest and say "We are predicting a great season for <insert East Coast team here> because of their pitching, hitting, and the newspapers this prediction will sell" we'd be OK with the bias.

AZChiSoxFan
03-31-2005, 12:40 PM
Also one question, Gonzales has only been on the job for a few weeks.. how do you know he's a Cubs fan? I thought he was from Arizona or someplece out West?

Lip

Crawdad stated that Gonzales is "not a Sox fan." He didn't say that Gonzales was a Cub fan.

You are correct about Gonzales being from Arizona. Up through last season, he was the beat writer for the D-backs for the main Phx paper.

SOX ADDICT '73
03-31-2005, 04:06 PM
On this topic:

While waiting at the doctor's office yesterday, I was was paging through the Dee Brown issue of Sports Illustrated and stumbled upon their print ad for the SI Covers Collection. Apparently, you can purchase an 11 x 14 framed copy of one of 1400 SI covers throughout their 51-year history. The ad featured a sampling of a dozen or so covers (six at the top of the page, six at the bottom, IIRC), and every single one featured a team/player from Boston's or Philadelphia's big four sports. Three of the twelve had recent NE Patriots (Brusci and two of Brady), two had Philly QBs (Cunningham and McNabb), Mike Schmidt and Pete Rose (in a Phillies uniform), Ted Williams and Curt Schilling (as a BoSox), Larry Bird and Dr. J. No Chicago teams (Jordan?), no golf (Tiger?), no boxing (Ali?), no west coast teams, no Olympics? In fact, the only reference to a New York team was a cover featuring a NY Ranger fighting with a Philadelphia Flyer.

No East Coast bias? Sports Illustrated has a long and storied history, as well as nation-wide distribution. How did their marketing department put this ad together without realizing what they were doing?

Fenway
04-01-2005, 03:28 PM
This is just a hunch on my part but I suspect that one reason the White Sox are off the radar of late may stem from moving spring training from Florida to Arizona.

Most of the so called glamour teams are still in Florida so writers from cities like New York don't see the White Sox.