PDA

View Full Version : White Sox in BP's Under the Knife Article


Dadawg_77
03-24-2005, 02:38 PM
I'm sure Mark Buehrle (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/pecota/buehrma01.php) is a tough guy. There's a fine line between tough and stupid when it comes to injuries, though. Buehrle has a small fracture of his fourth metatarsal that occurred at some unknown point. Instead of four to six weeks, Buehrle is telling the Sox he'll be back on the mound and ready for Opening Day. Ignoring that Brandon McCarthy (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/pecota/MCCARTHY19830707A.php) is having a great spring and would be a solid stopgap, Buehrle is risking a much greater injury by rushing back. Sources tell me that the team is going to try and get him to back off, if they can only keep Ozzie Guillen from encouraging this type of behavior......

Frank Thomas (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/pecota/thomafr04.php) got lost during the recent Congressional hearings, most likely something he didn't mind. He's probably a bit less happy that he's gotten lost along the way back from foot and ankle problems. Thomas' rehab has had numerous setbacks, and there have started to be rumors of retirement. That's unlikely, but not out of the question, according to team sources. Thomas is expected back mid-May and will be strictly limited to DH duties to protect the foot.

FYI.

SOX ADDICT '73
03-24-2005, 02:42 PM
That's the first I've heard about Frank's possible retirement, and I guess zero pain and three separate tests showing no fracture for Beuhrle mean nothing at all.

irish rover
03-24-2005, 02:46 PM
wow how pathetic

Iwritecode
03-24-2005, 02:49 PM
Burly has a small fracture huh?

So all those doctors saying they couldn't find anything must not know what they are talking about...

SoxxoS
03-24-2005, 02:49 PM
I didn't know the people over at BP know more than Mark Buerhle and doctors. That's amazing.

Daver
03-24-2005, 02:51 PM
I didn't know the people over at BP know more than Mark Buerhle and doctors. That's amazing.

They're propellerheads, they know everything.

santo=dorf
03-24-2005, 02:52 PM
Frank said he would be back May 1st at the latest.

Ol' No. 2
03-24-2005, 02:53 PM
You guys are missing the important part. He has "sources". Here's betting his "sources" couldn't name 5 current Sox players.

jabrch
03-24-2005, 02:59 PM
BP continues lazy, sloppy, biased writing when it comes to the Sox. I'm amazed people actually pay for some of their junk.

Corlose 15
03-24-2005, 03:16 PM
Wow, I wish I could get payed to write uninformed skewed crap like that.

Why the heck am I wasting my time here at college?

P.S. It was really tempting to write that in cyan and engage in a high speed chase with the teal police.

soxtalker
03-24-2005, 03:21 PM
OK, many of you may want to attack the messenger (BP columnist and his "sources"), but I think that this is worth keeping an eye on. It may be nothing. On the other hand, it also would make some sense. If there is any truth in the Buerhle comments, then I do hope that the team persuades him to sit. I'd rather have him spend the first month on the sidelines than sometime later.

Tekijawa
03-24-2005, 03:25 PM
OK, many of you may want to attack the messenger (BP columnist and his "sources"), but I think that this is worth keeping an eye on. It may be nothing. On the other hand, it also would make some sense. If there is any truth in the Buerhle comments, then I do hope that the team persuades him to sit. I'd rather have him spend the first month on the sidelines than sometime later.

What would be the reason to rush your ACE, who eats innings like no other pitcher in baseball, who you have locked up in a contract through 2008, back from a fairly minor injury? I don't think Herm is that stupid, I doubt Ozzie said come on Mark Play on it anyway... This isn't the Cubs were talkign about here!

Dadawg_77
03-24-2005, 03:43 PM
You guys are missing the important part. He has "sources". Here's betting his "sources" couldn't name 5 current Sox players.

Actually his sources tend to be a team's medical staff.

thepaulbowski
03-24-2005, 04:01 PM
These are probably the same "sources" that said Mark Prior required Tommy John surgery last year. :rolleyes:

voodoochile
03-24-2005, 04:04 PM
Actually his sources tend to be a team's medical staff.

You're saying Herm and the boys are talking to some guy who runs an Internet site instead of one of the major newspapers that are available?

Why?

faneidde
03-24-2005, 04:09 PM
Thomas just said on the Dan Patrick show he hoped to be ready sometime in April. I guess he must have meant ready to retire. Also, can the Sox please get rid of Buerhle. What a selfish idiot for trying to be there for your team when the season starts. He should just have himself a good sneeze and get back spasms for a month.

Ol' No. 2
03-24-2005, 04:32 PM
You're saying Herm and the boys are talking to some guy who runs an Internet site instead of one of the major newspapers that are available?

Why?Even better, why would Herm and the boys be saying one thing to somebody at BP, and telling their own management a different story?

jabrch
03-24-2005, 04:50 PM
Actually his sources tend to be a team's medical staff.

I highly doubt Herm (and staff) is telling these morons something different than what he is telling Ozzy, KW and the media. BPs sources usually are unnamed and inaccurate.

maurice
03-24-2005, 05:19 PM
Can anybody tell me how to print this article on two-ply so I can literally wipe my ass with it?

Ol' No. 2
03-24-2005, 05:23 PM
Can anybody tell me how to print this article on two-ply so I can literally wipe my ass with it?You'll be sorry. It's far too flimsy for that.:(:

jabrch
03-24-2005, 05:56 PM
This is why I find most of BPs "news" stuff to be complete garbage. I buy the annual book, drop my $15, only to laugh at some of their crap projections. But their website is total junk.

Sheehan and Carrol, in particular, are the laziest and most irresponsible of the bunch, but their lackies aren't any better.

Dadawg_77
03-24-2005, 10:44 PM
You're saying Herm and the boys are talking to some guy who runs an Internet site instead of one of the major newspapers that are available?

Why?

While BP isn't ESPN, but it is mainstream like BA not some random blog or site. I am sure like any good reporter, Carrol developes his sources.

We, well not sure if anyone has any inside info, reallly don't know what Herm has actually said to White Sox management. But I would expect WSM to put the most postive spin on problems when taking to media in the open.

From today's Tribune,

Schneider reported slugger Frank Thomas still appears tentative when putting pressure on his left foot while taking batting practice.

"If he could have run, he could have opened up with us because he's hitting the ball great," Schneider said. "But you can't have a designated runner."

So it seems to be some problems with Thomas remaining.

TornLabrum
03-24-2005, 10:51 PM
While BP isn't ESPN, but it is mainstream like BA not some random blog or site. I am sure like any good reporter, Carrol developes his sources.

We, well not sure if anyone has any inside info, reallly don't know what Herm has actually said to White Sox management. But I would expect WSM to put the most postive spin on problems when taking to media in the open.

From today's Tribune,


So it seems to be some problems with Thomas remaining.

Enough to make him consider retirement?

FarWestChicago
03-24-2005, 11:15 PM
I am sure like any good reporter, Carrol developes his sources.Who says Carrol is a good reporter?

Banix12
03-24-2005, 11:51 PM
While BP isn't ESPN, but it is mainstream like BA not some random blog or site. I am sure like any good reporter, Carrol developes his sources.

We, well not sure if anyone has any inside info, reallly don't know what Herm has actually said to White Sox management. But I would expect WSM to put the most postive spin on problems when taking to media in the open.

This article has more the sound of thinking out loud than actual reporting. Something that they can write, where if they are somehow correct they can dance around saying "told you so" and if it's wrong the report is just forgotten and buried. Usually if an actual paper is talking about things as big as an injury or mulling retirement, they tend to state their sources because when you state your source you gain a bit of credibility. This report seems to have no more credibility than those trade rumors pop up from time to time that we know are just random internet rumors or made up by columnists or radio reporters (I'm looking at you Levine, Wes Helms to the sox my butt!).

Notice this, when they talk about "rumors starting of frank's retirement" they aren't necessarily talking about Thomas saying he was going to retire, which is something nobody has really heard from Frank. However rumors of his retirement can be something as simple as, "I heard some guys at a bar talking about Frank and they say maybe he should retire." They wrote that "rumors" sentence next to another sentence that talks about team sources, so people make the inference that the two are related but they aren't necessarily. Also, "team sources" might not even be their own source, maybe they read something in a paper from someone on the team and just decided to call it "Team Sources."

As for Mark, Herm's history is of being pretty forthright with the information, with only a few minor exceptions. If something was really truly wrong with his foot, he wouldn't have been working out on it the last few days, as has been reported by actual reporters who are actually at sox camp. What it seems like with the Buehrle story is that they were watching ESPN and heard the original story about him getting injured, and then never heard the story about his foot being fine or they heard it and just decided not to believe it for whatever reason.

Dadawg_77
03-25-2005, 12:16 PM
Enough to make him consider retirement?

It did say, not likely but the option couldn'texcluded. It sounds as there have been some setback or the rehab is going slowly which is frustrating. Given Frank's age and if his ankle doesn't get better, it could lead to retirement. Not likely but it could. Like soxtalker said, any hint of setbacks in Franks or Marks rehab is something to keep an eye on since this team success depends on Frank and Mark being healthy for great majority of the season.

TornLabrum
03-25-2005, 12:26 PM
It did say, not likely but the option couldn'texcluded. It sounds as there have been some setback or the rehab is going slowly which is frustrating. Given Frank's age and if his ankle doesn't get better, it could lead to retirement. Not likely but it could. Like soxtalker said, any hint of setbacks in Franks or Marks rehab is something to keep an eye on since this team success depends on Frank and Mark being healthy for great majority of the season.

Of course that's if you even half believe the speculation and rumor that passes as journalism at BP.

jabrch
03-25-2005, 12:31 PM
Who says Carrol is a good reporter?


I so much agree West. Carrol is terrible. He never breaks "news" and he always adds his own clearly biased twist to any story. He's another in a long line of "propellerheads" who probaby would be a much better investment banker than a baseball anaylst because he beleives absolutely every number that comes out of his spreadsheet.

Carrol's blog is completely worthless also. It is nothing more than a home for for wayward "propellerheads" who all seem to still believe that a walk is as good as a hit, and that a .240 hitter who has a .350 OBP is better than a .280 hitter with a .340 OBP.

Carrol, like most of his ilk, is a one trick pony.

There is not a single thing that I have seen from Frank, from the team, from the medical staff or from the LOCAL media that would indicate that retirement is on the list of options. THere is only Carrol's irresponsible speculations.

I doubt Wil Carrol has better sources in the Sox organization than the Chicago papers and radio stations do. Take that back - I am 100% CERTAIN that he doesn't have better sources inside the Sox or Frank's inner circle than Chicago media doees.

MisterB
03-25-2005, 01:40 PM
It did say, not likely but the option couldn'texcluded. It sounds as there have been some setback or the rehab is going slowly which is frustrating. Given Frank's age and if his ankle doesn't get better, it could lead to retirement. Not likely but it could. Like soxtalker said, any hint of setbacks in Franks or Marks rehab is something to keep an eye on since this team success depends on Frank and Mark being healthy for great majority of the season.

Consdering he starts off with wrong information (Beuhrle DOESN'T have a fractured metatarsal, he had an previously undiagnosed foot injury which he aggravated), it's hard to take the rest of the blurb at face value.

Flight #24
03-25-2005, 01:49 PM
I doubt Wil Carrol has better sources in the Sox organization than the Chicago papers and radio stations do. Take that back - I am 100% CERTAIN that he doesn't have better sources inside the Sox or Frank's inner circle than Chicago media doees.

Frank says: "Things are going well, but a bit slower than I'd hoped. Still, I should be back latest May 1".

Carroll hears: "Man, this is really frustrating, I think I might as well just hang it up".

:?:

Or maybe he listened to Bonds PC after talking to his Frank "sources" and got hem confused?

maurice
03-25-2005, 02:35 PM
The actual news is:
- Buehrle is fine. The initial reports of a break were a discredited misdiagnosis. WSI's Official Doc reports that this type of fracture is extremely difficult to accurately diagnose early on. Buehrle has been throwing without any pain (which is inconsistent with a break) and will be returned to the rotation as soon as his next turn comes up.
- Thomas is "hitting the ball great," but still reluctant to transfer all of his weight to his injured leg because it's not at full strength yet. That's not surprising, since even the most optimistic timetable doesn't have him returning for about another month.
So, what's the problem? :?:

ma_deuce
03-25-2005, 03:49 PM
:chickenlittle

maurice
03-28-2005, 03:33 PM
Updated (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-050326soxbits,1,5378861.story?coll=cs-whitesox-headlines) actual news:
- "Mark Buehrle threw a 10-minute bullpen session Saturday without any discomfort in his left foot. Buehrle is scheduled to pitch six innings Tuesday against Colorado with the expectation he will be cleared to start the April 4 regular-season opener against Cleveland."
- "Thomas said the scar tissue is the lone obstacle in his recovery, although he has yet to run at full speed. He no longer is tentative when putting pressure on his front left foot when swinging and he has regained much of the muscle in his calf that had atrophied from being sidelined for seven months. Facing live pitching for three days has given Thomas hope that he can continue his rehab somewhere other than in Tucson during extended spring training even though it's unlikely he could be ready by mid-April. 'I don't plan on staying here too long,' Thomas said."

balke
03-28-2005, 03:44 PM
This offseason I thought Frank wasn't coming back til June, so I told myself he'd really be out til the All-star break. Late April, or May would be great.