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View Full Version : Disturbing Article by Phil Rogers


SaltyPretzel
03-24-2005, 09:59 AM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-050323rogers,1,1023525.column?coll=cs-home-headlines&ctrack=1&cset=true

:angry: :angry: :angry:

Clembasbal
03-24-2005, 10:14 AM
A couple of things jump out in my mind after readings this.

1) I will never recognize Sosa as the single-season HR king. If they take Bonds and McGwire's away, Sosa (in my mind) is gone too.

2) This Pentland guy that talks at the end that says Sosa did nothing...his statments are stupid. He talks about him and Sosa as "we" and "our". His comments are self centered like he was the guy that helped Sosa go to the All-Star games and hit 66 HR's and whatever else he hit during those years. Like Sosa and him should split the rewards 50/50. Idiot.

If that is the case as well, they should put this guy in the record books as well next to Sosa and he should have a better job that the Royals hitting coach.

Palehose13
03-24-2005, 10:34 AM
Phil, Phil, Phil...this is pretty bad. I expect this from Moronotti or Clueless.

This is especially ridiculous:
Jeff Pentland, who served as hitting coach under both Riggleman and Don Baylor, said he believes Sosa. The longer we talked, the surer he became about Sosa being clean.

"I have no idea," Pentland initially said when asked if he believed Sosa. "I never get around that kind of stuff. If that's what he says, that's what he says. I knew there were probably some people on stuff, I never ever get involved in that kind of stuff.

"[b]I never saw Sammy get that much bigger. He was about the same [size] every year. I believe exactly what he said. I don't doubt him at all."

C'mon Phil...You even try to cover your ass by stating that Pentland came to the cubs in 1998. I know that you remember how Sosa looked in the early 90's, but let's compare a couple of other years:

Sammy Sosa, 1997 36 HR's:

http://i19.ebayimg.com/01/i/03/ag/8a/35_1_b.JPG

Sammy Sosa, 1998, 66 HR's:

http://www.basehit.net/CatImages/99ToppsSuperChrome35.jpg

Naaaahhh...He's not much bigger at all. :wink: (Psst...look at his legs if you don't see it!)

Unregistered
03-24-2005, 10:38 AM
Well guess what, Phil: If KNOWN steroid abuser Sosa somehow takes over the home run title because he had the audacity to lie under oath, then you better be the FIRST to congratulate Frank Thomas on his 3rd MVP in 2000.

Palehose13
03-24-2005, 10:39 AM
Well guess what, Phil: If KNOWN steroid abuser Sosa somehow takes over the home run title because he had the audacity to lie under oath, then you better be the FIRST to congratulate Frank Thomas on his 3rd MVP in 2000.

Bravo!

voodoochile
03-24-2005, 10:40 AM
Hey Phil, what if he used LEGAL performance enhancers? What if they were legal where he took them but not legal in the USA or under the bylaws of MLB or just bad ethics in general considering the past great players who obtained their numbers naturally?

chuckn98229
03-24-2005, 10:57 AM
I will never, ever believe that Sosa was clean. He is a self-serving, lying sack of crap.

PatK
03-24-2005, 11:01 AM
What's funny is that Sammy never said he didn't do steroids.

I believe by the way he worded his statement, he said that he never "injected" steroids or illegal drugs.

Doesn't mean he didn't take them orally.

And Pentland is full of it when he says Sammy was always the same size. I remember the media and coaching staff going crazy when Sammy showed up at training camp in 1999 with about 20lbs of muscle that he didn't have the previous year.

DumpJerry
03-24-2005, 11:42 AM
Give me a break! For anyone who is a baseball observer to say that Scammy definitely did not use juice is either in complete denial or a blithering idiot. True, we may not, without a confession, ever know with 100% certainty that Scammy was juiced, but there is enough circumstantial evidence in that direction to say it is very possible.

I just love how Scammy's lawyer (mouthpiece) said he never used illegal substances, but not go the next step and state he did not use legal substances illegally..............

FightingBillini
03-24-2005, 12:11 PM
And Pentland is full of it when he says Sammy was always the same size. I remember the media and coaching staff going crazy when Sammy showed up at training camp in 1999 with about 20lbs of muscle that he didn't have the previous year.

Wow, I forgot about that completely. I now specifically remember him coming into camp one year with 20lbs more muscle. But he got it through hard work an dedication.

jackbrohamer
03-24-2005, 12:27 PM
Selig will never remove any home run records, IMO. Doing so will amount to an admission that he let steriod use get out of hand on his watch, which he'll never do.

SOXSINCE'70
03-24-2005, 12:30 PM
What do you expect from this wonk??I will never recoginze "Sham-Me". The HR king will
be Roger Maris,in my mind. Forget McGwire,forget
Bonds,forget "Scam-me".:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

It's going to be hard to watch baseball and look at
HR hitters and wonder which ones are on steroids??

It'll be obvious.If they go from 30 HR's one year to 60 HR's
the next year,I will have my doubts.:dunno: :dunno: :dunno:

Palehose13
03-24-2005, 12:30 PM
Wow, I forgot about that completely. I now specifically remember him coming into camp one year with 20lbs more muscle. But he got it through hard work an dedication.

Even though he stated last year that it was his first year lifting in the offseason (or something like that). I dunno how that admission last year escaped the media.

Brian26
03-24-2005, 12:47 PM
I will never, ever believe that Sosa was clean. He is a self-serving, lying sack of crap.

I believe that Sammy never took illegal perfomance-enhancing drugs to entertain his fans in batting practice.

ChiSoxRowand
03-24-2005, 12:57 PM
Barry Bonds is the single season home run king and always will be, unless somebody hits 74 home runs. He wasn't doing anything that was illegal at the time. If people want to try to keep him out of the hall of fame, thats fine. But he is the home run king. Everyone can live in their fantasy world and say that Maris is the leader all they want, but Bonds name will never be removed from the record books, and it shouldn't be.

maurice
03-24-2005, 01:01 PM
Hey Phil, what if he used LEGAL performance enhancers? What if they were legal where he took them but not legal in the USA or under the bylaws of MLB or just bad ethics in general considering the past great players who obtained their numbers naturally?

We already know that Phil's aware of this position. He reportedly advanced this position on TV days ago and even quoted Sosa's lawyer's "illegal" phraseology in this very article. For some reason, he simply doesn't have the courage to put two and two together in the Trib.

Brian26
03-24-2005, 01:04 PM
Barry Bonds is the single season home run king and always will be, unless somebody hits 74 home runs. He wasn't doing anything that was illegal at the time. If people want to try to keep him out of the hall of fame, thats fine. But he is the home run king. Everyone can live in their fantasy world and say that Maris is the leader all they want, but Bonds name will never be removed from the record books, and it shouldn't be.

The only reason his name won't be removed is because the backbone of baseball, moreso than any other sport, is the ability to compare statistics between players of different eras. Taking away homeruns from one guy affects so many different facets of the game that it would be an impossible undertaking. If Bonds homers don't count, shouldn't the pitchers from 2001 be credited with lower ERA's? That's just a small example.

The 90's and early 00's will be considered "the steroid era", but no record books will ever be changed.

chuckn98229
03-24-2005, 01:07 PM
For some reason, he simply doesn't have the courage to put two and two together in the Trib.

The Trib - Chicago's Very Own Tass/Pravda!

The Racehorse
03-24-2005, 01:16 PM
Barry Bonds is the single season home run king and always will be, unless somebody hits 74 home runs. He wasn't doing anything that was illegal at the time.

Unless Barry had a prescription, his use of steroids was illegal...

... the use of steroids without a prescription has been illegal since 1990 [for the millionth time on this board]. :wink:

soxfan43
03-24-2005, 01:38 PM
Ya maybe he hasn't been proven to use steroids, but what Mr. Rogers fails to remember he was caught redhanded using cork. And I'm pretty sure thats illegal in baseball. So if he wants to remove people from the record book who allegedly used steroids, he has to remove someone who got caught red handed. Just like we don't know how long all these guys used roids, we don't know how many times shammy used his corked bat

jackbrohamer
03-24-2005, 01:47 PM
The 90's and early 00's will be considered "the steroid era", but no record books will ever be changed.

You're right, unless there is a urine sample taken from McGwire in 1998, or Bonds in 2001, that tests positives for HGH or whatever, nobody will be able to prove absolutely that they were juiced, even if there is no other way to explain their freakish bodies (GAFM I can't believe the size of Bonds' head!).

It will be viewed like the pre-1900 "dead ball" era and the mid-late- 1960s pitchers' era when people compare numbers

Lip Man 1
03-24-2005, 02:01 PM
Pretty interesting column today by Phil Rogers on Sammy Sosa and his 'non-denial, denial,' from the steroid hearings.

It looks like a follow up to his comments on Nightline about the 'Sosa semantics.' The other interesting part is that Rogers contacted a number of people connected with the Cubs organization and there are some who flat out don't believe what Sosa said.

Here's the link if interested: http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-050323rogers,1,1023525.column?coll=cs-home-headlines

Lip

Brian26
03-24-2005, 02:24 PM
You're right, unless there is a urine sample taken from McGwire in 1998, or Bonds in 2001, that tests positives for HGH or whatever, nobody will be able to prove absolutely that they were juiced, even if there is no other way to explain their freakish bodies (GAFM I can't believe the size of Bonds' head!).

It will be viewed like the pre-1900 "dead ball" era and the mid-late- 1960s pitchers' era when people compare numbers

But what I'm saying is how in the heck do you go back and start altering statistics and records? It would be mind-boggling. Or do you just keep the statistics but not recognize the record (ie Bonds 73 homers stand, but he's not the record holder)?

PatK
03-24-2005, 04:16 PM
Sometimes I read a Phil Rogers column and think he's really just trolling the readers.

Hangar18
03-24-2005, 05:52 PM
Phil Rogers could not have written that article. No Way.
Not the Phil Rogers I know, the Phil Rogers who doesnt let
truth get tainted by the Media. That article looks like it was written
by Bruce Levineline. The Chicago Media doesnt give up do they?

By the way, Phil I think is a good writer, but man, hes written 2 pieces
now in the last few weeks that are very Mike Kiley-esque. Phil
defended Bud Selig recently and said hes been a good commissioner, and that
the League-Of-Extraordinarily-Dumb-Gentleman otherwise known as MLB,
did NOT look the other way when it came to steroids. Phil, The Cubs
and MLB can take away your Hall-Pass, but they CANT take away
your dignity brother. Sammy Did It.

Lip Man 1
03-24-2005, 08:42 PM
Hangar:

Based on Phil's comments on Nightline and the tone of this column I think that he agrees with you that Sosa did something. or else he wouldn't have brought up the point about steroids not being illegal in the Dominican and the Manny Alexander incident.

He's laying the groudwork based on the circumstancial evidence against Sammy. He coupled that with the comments of a few who were in the organization and think Sosa did something.

Lip

SOXPHILE
03-24-2005, 10:48 PM
Maybe Mr. Rogers got taken out to the proverbial woodshed for the piece he did a few days ago on the Cubs pitching staff being overrated. He forgot who he works for, and so he did this story on Sosa. Coming next week from Phil Rogers, an in depth look at the life of little Darrin Baker, and how he hopes to someday play for the Cubs.

Phil Rogers = Company Man

FarWestChicago
03-24-2005, 11:06 PM
Phil, step up. Be a man. Set a precedent.

What reporters should do (http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=630761&postcount=56).

You might have to find a new line of work, but you'll at least be able to look in the mirror again.

bigfoot
03-25-2005, 06:41 PM
The Trib - Chicago's Very Own Tass/Pravda!

LOL .....The Trib/Tass/Pravda....now available in "Wrigelyville", Chicago's Very Own, Potemkin village!

shoota
03-26-2005, 12:09 AM
Give me a break! For anyone who is a baseball observer to say that Scammy definitely did not use juice is either in complete denial or a blithering idiot. True, we may not, without a confession, ever know with 100% certainty that Scammy was juiced, but there is enough circumstantial evidence in that direction to say it is very possible.

Right. There isn't concrete proof that allows us to say Sosa is a proven steroid user, but there also isn't concrete proof that allows us to say McGwire is a proven steroid user, either.

There is anecdotal evidence saying both McGwire and Sosa used steroids, and because of that evidence, this article should have never been penned, yet alone published.

While not enough to convict Sosa in a court of law, the anecdotal evidence against him is reason enough NOT to write a column speculating that he is the deserving single-season home run champ. Rogers's reasoning for anointing Sosa the champ eliminates McGwire based on anecdotal evidence, but doesn't eliminate Sosa though he has plenty of anecdotal evidence shadowing him around too.

The anecdotal evidence condemns Sosa as much as it does McGwire! Thus, Sosa should also be eliminated from Mr. Rogers's fantasy scenario. I know he sometimes posts here so I believe he owes an explanation for this article if he cares about his credibility.

Hey Phil Rogers, get off the
:bluerock

chuckn98229
03-28-2005, 01:05 AM
LOL .....The Trib/Tass/Pravda....now available in "Wrigelyville", Chicago's Very Own, Potemkin village!

great analogy.