PDA

View Full Version : Vizcaino's "Stuff"


kittle545feet
03-23-2005, 04:32 PM
I was watching the game today and saw Vizcaino pitch for about the third time this spring. Every time I have seen this guy, I have been more and more impressed. It seems to me he has amazing stuff and great command. I was wondering if this guy has ever been considered as a starter since he has been in the big leagues? I think we have really done well with the trade for Carlos and I see things improving on the south side this year.:bandance:

SoxSpeed22
03-23-2005, 05:40 PM
I was watching the game today and saw Vizcaino pitch for about the third time this spring. Every time I have seen this guy, I have been more and more impressed. It seems to me he has amazing stuff and great command. I was wondering if this guy has ever been considered as a starter since he has been in the big leagues? I think we have really done well with the trade for Carlos and I see things improving on the south side this year.:bandance:I think Vizcaino can be a great set up man. Last year he had a 3.75 ERA in 72 IP with 63 K and 24 walks. Meanwhile, the rest of the world calls it the Lee-Podsednik trade.

PAPChiSox729
03-23-2005, 05:48 PM
I think Vizcaino can be a great set up man. Last year he had a 3.75 ERA in 72 IP with 63 K and 24 walks. Meanwhile, the rest of the world calls it the Lee-Podsednik trade.

I agree. Vizcaino is being vastly underrated. He could have a great year this season as a set up man.

SOXSINCE'70
03-23-2005, 05:57 PM
From what i've heard,he has a rubber arm.That means he could pitch
on consecutive days.This could be huge once August and Sept.
roll around.:gulp: :gulp:

PAPChiSox729
03-23-2005, 06:14 PM
From what i've heard,he has a rubber arm.That means he could pitch
on consecutive days.This could be huge once August and Sept.
roll around.:gulp: :gulp:

Don't forget about October!
:D:

Sargeant79
03-23-2005, 08:26 PM
I think Vizcaino is going to be one of the most valuable offseason acquisitions in the long run. There were many times last season that I was genuinely frightened of losing a 3 or 4 run lead when it got to be time for the middle relievers to do their thing. Not only do I feel a lot better about the seventh and eighth innings this year, but I think Vizcaino has the potential to assume a more important role in another year or two. I don't see him as a starter, but from what I've seen, he definitely has the potential to be a solid closer. If Shingo gets hurt or is ineffective for a stretch, I think we may see it this year.

brewcrew/chisox
03-23-2005, 11:03 PM
Vizcaino was definitely a great pick up in that trade. Last Year, I saw him set for Kolb a number of times at both Miller Park and the Urinal. It was that combination (Vizcaino and Kolb) that allowed the Brewers to "stay in it" for a while in the National Central(at least in it for the brewers). They won a number of games 1-0 or 3-2 etc.. and it was because they had a that 1-2 punch in the late innings. He's going to be a great set up man for shingo.

More importantly however, he's going to be able to spell Marte, a man who IMO has been a little overused these past two years. The guy didn't get the nickname "every day Marte" for nothing. If Vizcaino can come in and be just as effective as Marte can be when he isn't tired, The Sox are going to be lights out down the stretch.

mjharrison72
03-24-2005, 09:59 AM
I think Vizcaino is going to be one of the most valuable offseason acquisitions in the long run. There were many times last season that I was genuinely frightened of losing a 3 or 4 run lead when it got to be time for the middle relievers to do their thing. Not only do I feel a lot better about the seventh and eighth innings this year, but I think Vizcaino has the potential to assume a more important role in another year or two. I don't see him as a starter, but from what I've seen, he definitely has the potential to be a solid closer. If Shingo gets hurt or is ineffective for a stretch, I think we may see it this year.
I think back to the games in Detroit, the one I attended was a throwback night, when Neil Cotts walked in the winning run to lose a beautifully pitched game by Buehrle. Worst part was, it was the second night in a row a Sox reliever walked in the winning run.
Nothing makes me happier than to see what the Sox have done to shore up the bullpen this season, and it's another one of those under the radar moves people leave out when they criticize the team's offseason moves. There have been about six times as many stories about the Flubs' bullpen, especially now that they REALLY have no closer. Nothing like documenting a team's move from Plan C to Plan D.
Vizcaino has definitely not disappointed after being an afterthought to most in the C. Lee trade. He will be crucial this season.

Brian26
03-24-2005, 11:54 AM
Count me as one of the guys who has a gut feeling that Vizcaino is going to be a huge surprise for us. I'm thinking a Barry Jones-like season as a setup guy for our closer. Vulture-2k5.

Sargeant79
03-24-2005, 03:25 PM
Worst part was, it was the second night in a row a Sox reliever walked in the winning run.Nothing makes me happier than to see what the Sox have done to shore up the bullpen this season, and it's another one of those under the radar moves people leave out when they criticize the team's offseason moves.

That's exactly what I was talking about. It's infuriating to have the bullpen completely give away a game like that. Good point on the criticism of offseason moves. Think of how many games the middle relievers gave away in the late innings last year, and then consider how many games Carlos Lee or Maggs singlehandedly won for us. The latter two were integral parts of the team, but I think by adding Vizcaino and Hermanson, we addressed a much more pressing need that will translate to more wins than if we had kept Lee and Maggs. That's the kind of stuff that people rarely talk about when evaluating a trade like that, despite the fact that the 'W' is what matters most.

Lem_Siddons
03-24-2005, 04:34 PM
This highlights the difference between big payroll teams and us. The Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers, Mets, see a hole like that and don't need to take from another pile to fill it.

I think the trade was about even. The outfield loss is the RP gain. I just wish we could gain without loss.

:?:

Infallible
03-24-2005, 05:43 PM
If Shingo gets hurt or is ineffective for a stretch, I think we may see it this year.

If he trips coming out of the bullpen? Thats the only way I see him getting hurt. Ineffective? Maybe, a lot of the teams will be waiting on the frisbee this year.

FightingBillini
03-24-2005, 06:04 PM
If he trips coming out of the bullpen? Thats the only way I see him getting hurt. Ineffective? Maybe, a lot of the teams will be waiting on the frisbee this year.

That is important to note -"waiting on the frisbee". Shingo's deceptiviness is not because batters haven't seen his pitches or pitches at those speeds before. His success is from the incredible difference of velocity and movement between his pitches.
Its not like he is throwing the same thing everytime and the hitters just don't know how to hit it because they haven't had enough chances. Hitters can't hit him because they dont know what is coming next. When they see what they think is a fastball leave his hand, it takes twice the normal time to reach the plate. If they are waiting for another frisbee on the next pitch, he will catch them looking with a 88mph fastball. There will be no "catching up" to Shingo. If he starts getting hit it will be because he is no longer distinguishing his pitches, or the batters are really good at guessing what he will throw next.

cburns
03-24-2005, 06:28 PM
If he starts getting hit it will be because he is no longer distinguishing his pitches, or the batters are really good at guessing what he will throw next.

Or because he misses his spots and falls behind in the count and has to rely on his fastball.

SoxFan76
03-24-2005, 06:40 PM
If he trips coming out of the bullpen? Thats the only way I see him getting hurt. Ineffective? Maybe, a lot of the teams will be waiting on the frisbee this year.

Isn't that like saying the league will be waiting on Johnson's slider? Santana's changeup? Wakefield's knuckle?

Foulke You
03-24-2005, 06:49 PM
I think back to the games in Detroit, the one I attended was a throwback night, when Neil Cotts walked in the winning run to lose a beautifully pitched game by Buehrle. Worst part was, it was the second night in a row a Sox reliever walked in the winning run.
Nothing makes me happier than to see what the Sox have done to shore up the bullpen this season, and it's another one of those under the radar moves people leave out when they criticize the team's offseason moves. There have been about six times as many stories about the Flubs' bullpen, especially now that they REALLY have no closer. Nothing like documenting a team's move from Plan C to Plan D.
Vizcaino has definitely not disappointed after being an afterthought to most in the C. Lee trade. He will be crucial this season.

I remember being so infuriated at those two "walk off walk" losses against Detroit. I think it was Polite who walked in the game winner the previous night. Let's also not forget the other "walk off walk" Marte had against the Flubs in Wrigley on July 4th. I think I saw more games lost with a walk in '04 than I did in the previous 5 years of watching the Sox combined. Shoring up the bullpen was one of the most unheralded aspects of KW's offseason, but it may end up being the most important if Hermanson and Vizcaino end up performing well.

Corlose 15
03-24-2005, 07:55 PM
Don't forget Billy Koch's walk off walk loss to the Mariners on Sunday night baseball where he couldn't even get ball four to the plate in the air. He wasted a very good performance from Loaiza. Man, I was pissed after that one.:angry:

DaleJRFan
03-24-2005, 08:43 PM
Don't forget Billy Koch's walk off walk loss to the Mariners on Sunday night baseball where he couldn't even get ball four to the plate in the air. He wasted a very good performance from Loaiza. Man, I was pissed after that one.:angry:

Man, I remember that one. Even Mike Jackson threw well that game. :angry:

Infallible
03-24-2005, 09:46 PM
Isn't that like saying the league will be waiting on Johnson's slider? Santana's changeup? Wakefield's knuckle?

First lets establish I like Shingo, I wish he was our man from the beginning last year. Now onto the above. The difference is Shingo has been in the ML for how long? There are plenty of flash in the pan guys. Dare I mention Mitch Williams? Once or rather IF the word gets out on how to handle a guy he doesn't remain around long. I'm hoping he's not one of them, but to compare him right now to Johnson or to a lesser extent Santana is crazy. Wakefield ehhh I'm not so sure about, knuckle ballers are a strange breed of their own.

Edit: Just so we don't completely derail this thread, Vizcaino's got good stuff. It'll be nice to have another good setup man/possible closer.

fquaye149
03-25-2005, 02:23 AM
First lets establish I like Shingo, I wish he was our man from the beginning last year. Now onto the above. The difference is Shingo has been in the ML for how long? There are plenty of flash in the pan guys. Dare I mention Mitch Williams? Once or rather IF the word gets out on how to handle a guy he doesn't remain around long. I'm hoping he's not one of them, but to compare him right now to Johnson or to a lesser extent Santana is crazy. Wakefield ehhh I'm not so sure about, knuckle ballers are a strange breed of their own.

Edit: Just so we don't completely derail this thread, Vizcaino's got good stuff. It'll be nice to have another good setup man/possible closer.

Yeah it's almost as crazy as saying a pitcher with a nearly 40 mph differential between fastball and changeup will EVER have a problem keeping hitters off balance (unless he starts TIPPING his pitches).

But then again, I guess the league DID finally catch up to Keith Foulke, the pitcher most comparable to Shingo in pitch selection.