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DaleJRFan
03-18-2005, 12:33 PM
Who is better? Burke or Davis? And Why?

I read all these articles about the final 25th roster spot and how Jamie Burke is fighting for it.

From what I have seen, Ben Davis stinks. He can't hit, he's slow but plays decent D. Burke is a good contact hitter with little power, runs well for a catcher, is a solid defensive catcher, can play other positions (this is still questionable)... Maybe KW doesn't think Burke fits the grinder mold since he spent a night in the hospital last season but I don't see how the Sox could sign Ben Davis for $1M and designate Burke for assignment.

Maybe I missed something. Help me out here. Why is Ben Davis the backup catcher?

SoxFan76
03-18-2005, 12:34 PM
I think it's based more on potential...........and the fact that Ben Davis is getting paid a million bucks to sit on the bench. Burke is the superior player in every aspect.

chisoxmike
03-18-2005, 12:43 PM
I would take Burke over Davis any day of the week, but, I do have to say the Davis is better defensive catcher than Burke is. I can't tell you how many times Burke dropped the ball on a relay, or the passed balls that lead to runs.

Yes, Burke is a better hitter than Davis, and has much more potential.

jabrch
03-18-2005, 12:46 PM
I don't mind giving Davis one more shot IN THE NUTS.

mantis1212
03-18-2005, 01:09 PM
I would definitely prefer Burke, but since someone decided to give Big Ben a millions bucks, I guess he's the guy.

Burke is still a .300 career hitter in the MLB IIRC

Daver
03-18-2005, 01:16 PM
I would definitely prefer Burke, but since someone decided to give Big Ben a millions bucks, I guess he's the guy.

Burke is still a .300 career hitter in the MLB IIRC

Burke does not handle a pitching staff well and can't call pitches, it doesn't matter what he hits, catcher is a defensive position.

jabrch
03-18-2005, 01:30 PM
Burke does not handle a pitching staff well and can't call pitches, it doesn't matter what he hits, catcher is a defensive position.

Hey Daver,

What % of the backup catchers in MLB do you think actually call their own games today anyhow? I wonder...

Daver
03-18-2005, 01:50 PM
Hey Daver,

What % of the backup catchers in MLB do you think actually call their own games today anyhow? I wonder...

Calling pitches is not calling a game.

I can't think of any catchers that actually call a game anymore, Fisk was the last one the Sox had.

Clembasbal
03-18-2005, 01:53 PM
Calling pitches is not calling a game.

I can't think of any catchers that actually call a game anymore, Fisk was the last one the Sox had.

My catchers do almost everything for me and they are in high school.

They call pitches, locations, fielding locations and postioning, 1st and 3rd plays, almost everything.

I will tell you that a lot of catchers still call a game...Mike Mathey comes to mind quickly for me.

CPditka
03-18-2005, 01:59 PM
Whats the deal w/ Chris Widger? He seems to be getting a lot of PT.

DaleJRFan
03-18-2005, 02:09 PM
Whats the deal w/ Chris Widger? He seems to be getting a lot of PT.

Widger won't make the squad. They are giving him a chance to play so he can show other teams what he has to offer... so when the Sox let him go, he has body of work scouts can reference.

ondafarm
03-18-2005, 02:32 PM
Hey Daver,

What % of the backup catchers in MLB do you think actually call their own games today anyhow? I wonder...


As a former minor league backstop, I'd have to say almost all of them do. The few I know who don't seldom make it to the majors in any capacity.

Burke is getting a fighting chance at the 3rd catcher spot because of his long term service, his Spanish fluency and his offense. Davis is the superior defensive catcher and is considerably better at calling the game.

Every catcher gets a lot of help from the advance scout, the pitching coach, the manager and most of the rest of the staff. Catching is a cerebral position, you direct the defense and the pitching. There's a good reason ex-catchers make the best managers.

Daver
03-18-2005, 02:36 PM
Burke is getting a fighting chance at the 3rd catcher spot because of his long term service, his Spanish fluency and his offense. Davis is the superior defensive catcher and is considerably better at calling the game.


You have the two confused, Davis speaks spanish, not Burke.

ondafarm
03-18-2005, 02:51 PM
You have the two confused, Davis speaks spanish, not Burke.

Sorry, maybe I do.

http://www.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=406550

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=150433

I did see Jaime Burke play in both of the last two seasons with Charlotte. I thought I saw him speaking with Spanish speaking pitchers.

Besides, Davis can switch hit and one more position with a lefty bat never hurts.

DaleJRFan
03-18-2005, 04:03 PM
Sorry, maybe I do.

http://www.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=406550

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=150433

I did see Jaime Burke play in both of the last two seasons with Charlotte. I thought I saw him speaking with Spanish speaking pitchers.

Besides, Davis can switch hit and one more position with a lefty bat never hurts.

Regardless of foreign language speaking abilities, a righthanded hitting Burke is better than Davis hitting lefthanded, IMO. I still find it amusing that Davis sprints the bases when he hits a homer...

:)

HITMEN OF 77
03-18-2005, 04:31 PM
I think Burke is the better of the two. He's younger and has shown at times last year that he can hit pretty good. Davis hit good for about the first 1 1/2 months after comng over then tanked the rest of the season.

MeanFish
03-18-2005, 05:14 PM
I think Burke is the better of the two. He's younger and has shown at times last year that he can hit pretty good. Davis hit good for about the first 1 1/2 months after comng over then tanked the rest of the season.

It's probably worth mentioning at this juncture that Burke is 33 years old, and Davis is 28.

owensmouth
03-18-2005, 05:24 PM
It's probably worth mentioning at this juncture that Burke is 33 years old, and Davis is 28.

Then that's to Burke's advantage. KW always goes for age over potential. When's Robby Alomar due back?

mealfred13
03-18-2005, 05:40 PM
For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure I heard someone on Comcast Sporstnet mention something about Burke being the probable backup catcher, and that there is something in the works as far as an attempt to trade Davis. For all I know, this is complete hearsay, but it's interesting to think about, so take it with a grain of salt.

HITMEN OF 77
03-18-2005, 05:43 PM
It's probably worth mentioning at this juncture that Burke is 33 years old, and Davis is 28.

yea your right, I don't know what I was thinking on the age thing? That's what I get for drinking and playing golf this afternoon :gulp: I still think Burke is better option than Davis.

Shorty1983
03-18-2005, 05:49 PM
Big Ben is a bum, and you guys know it. The only reason were stuck with him is because were paying him a overpaid salary. Burke hits all sides, good clutch hitting, and a mediocre catcher.

SOX ADDICT '73
03-18-2005, 10:36 PM
With all due respect to Freddy Garcia (and AJ Pierzynski, for that matter), I need Ben Davis to do well so I can better stomach the loss of Miguel Olivo.:whiner:

DaleJRFan
03-18-2005, 10:44 PM
With all due respect to Freddy Garcia (and AJ Pierzynski, for that matter), I need Ben Davis to do well so I can better stomach the loss of Miguel Olivo.:whiner:

Olivo is overrated. Time will show this. Freddy Garcia for Jeremy Reed, Miguel Olivo and (forgot his name) would have been fine with me. Davis was a throw in since we lost our starting catcher, we obviously needed to fill that hole...

Olivo is overrated and time will show this. I'll take AJ and Jamie. Good hitting from both sides of the plate and adequate defense from the both of them.

I just don't understand why KW paid Davis a million bucks when we could sign Burke for 1 or 2 years at 750k-800k. I'm baffled. Was Davis due for arbitration?

Daver
03-18-2005, 11:12 PM
I just don't understand why KW paid Davis a million bucks when we could sign Burke for 1 or 2 years at 750k-800k. I'm baffled. Was Davis due for arbitration?

Because Davis can play the position, and Burke can't.

SOX ADDICT '73
03-18-2005, 11:18 PM
Olivo is overrated and time will show this.
I can't remember the last time we had a catcher that was as feared/respected defensively as Olivo. Nobody wanted to steal on that arm, and his bat was just starting to come around at the time of the Garcia deal. Though he didn't do well for Seattle the rest of the season, some of that can be chalked up to a young player, disappointed after a trade, having trouble adjusting to new surroundings. Though in the short term, I love AJ over Olivo, I think "time will show" that Olivo is one of the best catchers in baseball.

nodiggity59
03-18-2005, 11:52 PM
I can't remember the last time we had a catcher that was as feared/respected defensively as Olivo. Nobody wanted to steal on that arm, and his bat was just starting to come around at the time of the Garcia deal. Though he didn't do well for Seattle the rest of the season, some of that can be chalked up to a young player, disappointed after a trade, having trouble adjusting to new surroundings. Though in the short term, I love AJ over Olivo, I think "time will show" that Olivo is one of the best catchers in baseball.

:roflmao:

I guess time will tell.

Banix12
03-19-2005, 12:36 AM
A few Davis points...
- potential is baseball speak for "hasn't done squat". That's fine when you're a rookie but when you are a seven year veteran, it sucks to have "potential"

- he has been tagged the catcher of the future by two separate teams, the Padres and Mariners. The Padres traded him to get Tom Lampkin, who retired the year after the trade. Was dubbed the heir apparent to Dan Wilson, lost that tag, and last year, before we aquired him, he stunk so bad he was replaced by 41 year old Pat Borders, who hadn't played in more than 12 major league games a season since 1998.

- For all those who feel Davis doing well justifies the Olivo trade, Garcia doing well justifies the the Olivo trade. We only got Davis in the deal because we needed a live body at catcher. Alomar was injury prone, we didn't have Olivo, and Burke was our only other catcher, so the Mariners gave us their expendable AAA catcher, who happened to be Ben Davis.

- Ben Davis' bat has been getting progressively worse the since his high water mark in 2001. At this point he is Paul Bako with a little more power and a little less glove. Sad to note that last year Paul Bako had a higher .OBP.

- Non-spanish speaking catchers have been dealing with spanish speaking pitchers for years and it never seemed to be a problem before and I'm sure Burke has dealt with his share in the minors. So those working the fluency angle, drop it.

- Defense is his only positive because he can block the plate pretty well. However his arm is regressing, throwing out a smaller percentage of runners in each of the last few years. Last year allowed the same amount of SB in 53 games with the White Sox than he did in 73 games the season before in Seattle.

- The fact that he can switch hit doesn't mean anything when the person who is doing it can't hit. And we don't really need him as a lefty off the bench anyway, last I checked we are full of lefties on the bench.

I don't know why they gave him the million other than he was an insurance policy if they couldn't sign anybody. Do I think Burke is the greatest catcher in the world? No, but I think that everytime we have given him an opprotunity he has come through. Ben Davis has had 6+ years to show what he can do in the majors and is regressing as a player, Burke has had half a season and seems to be showing some progress.

Shorty1983
03-19-2005, 01:29 AM
Bottom line we got screwed over 1 million dollars because we couldn't wait around the bushes. So Kenny jumped right to his check book, because other teams were so desperately waiting to sign him.

Give Burke the last roster spot and trade Davis for prospects.

StillMissOzzie
03-19-2005, 01:47 AM
- Non-spanish speaking catchers have been dealing with spanish speaking pitchers for years and it never seemed to be a problem before and I'm sure Burke has dealt with his share in the minors. So those working the fluency angle, drop it.


"Numero uno = el caliente, numero dos = el curvo" How much more do they need?

SMO
:gulp:

Banix12
03-19-2005, 03:24 AM
Ok I admit it, I was wrong about Ben Davis. All I needed to convince me that he was the greatest player to ever walk the face of the earth was this site.

*Warning, Bad color schemes and bad webdesign all devoted to a bad catcher* (http://bendavis.org/)

Be sure to visit the Extras page and take the quiz "How well do you know Ben Davis?" and learn "the top 30 reasons you are obsessed with Ben Davis"

Nobody has devoted this much effort to a .200 hitting catcher since the ill fated 1994 "Karkovice for Pope!" campaign.

mdep524
03-19-2005, 11:38 AM
I just don't understand why KW paid Davis a million bucks when we could sign Burke for 1 or 2 years at 750k-800k. I'm baffled. Was Davis due for arbitration? Before AJ entered the picture, KW had lost out on a bid for Jason Kendall, so Davis and Burke were our ONLY catchers. KW had to bring him back to be the starter, but I agree $1 mil was excessive.

CPditka
03-19-2005, 12:38 PM
Widger won't make the squad. They are giving him a chance to play so he can show other teams what he has to offer... so when the Sox let him go, he has body of work scouts can reference.




Why are we giving Widger a shot, when its a 2 man race for the back up, Widger has been starting games, which is a good time to evaluate Burke or Big Ben. It seems Burke hasnt got near as much PT.

gogosoxtimebaby
03-19-2005, 08:13 PM
um burke by alot

Fake Chet Lemon
03-19-2005, 08:33 PM
Before AJ entered the picture, KW had lost out on a bid for Jason Kendall, so Davis and Burke were our ONLY catchers. KW had to bring him back to be the starter, but I agree $1 mil was excessive.

The ML minimum is around $300,000. So at most we are only overpaying Davis $700,000. On a $72M payroll, not that big a deal. I like Burke better, but let's not make it sound like we gave away the store for Davis. We didn't.

balke
03-20-2005, 01:17 AM
Burke put on a beautiful squeeze bunt today. He is still hitting, and will still go to the minors I'm guessing. I don't understand it. Is he really that bad behind the plate?