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White Sox Randy
03-18-2005, 10:17 AM
Jose Contreras to the Mets right now. The Mets are desperate for pitching. I know Contreras has huge potential but I have a big problem with a guy that is atleast 33 years old and still doesn't know how to get hitters out. Brandon McCarthy has a much better idea of how to pitch than this guy does.

I say trade Contreras for Jose Reyes.

Or better yet, how about Contreras and Crede for David Wright. I doubt the Mets would do it but you never know.

I think that the Sox would be in a good position to deal with the Mets who can afford Contreras contract. The question is does KW have the balls to make this trade on the fly and change direction so quickly ?

elrod
03-18-2005, 10:19 AM
Hate to burst your bubble but the Mets are not THAT desperate for pitching that they'd give up their entire future for a troubled pitcher who couldn't pitch in New York. David Wright and Jose Reyes are the future of the Mets. Omar Minaya isn't that stupid.

soxfan26
03-18-2005, 10:22 AM
Jose Contreras to the Mets right now. The Mets are desperate for pitching. I know Contreras has huge potential but I have a big problem with a guy that is atleast 33 years old and still doesn't know how to get hitters out. Brandon McCarthy has a much better idea of how to pitch than this guy does.

I say trade Contreras for Jose Reyes.

Or better yet, how about Contreras and Crede for David Wright. I doubt the Mets would do it but you never know.

I think that the Sox would be in a good position to deal with the Mets who can afford Contreras contract. The question is does KW have the balls to make this trade on the fly and change direction so quickly ?


Trade our #4 starter for a middle infielder, throw McCarthy into the fire AND use the jedi mind trick to convince the Mets that Crede is a suitable replacement for Wright?

:kukoo:

Baby Fisk
03-18-2005, 10:28 AM
None of these ideas are workable. The Mets envision Wright as their 3Bman for the next decade. They also have high hopes for Reyes now that he's healthy. B-Mac is not ready to be thrown into our rotation yet. Going into the season with Contreras is not the end of the world.

mdep524
03-18-2005, 10:39 AM
The only way any of our starting pitchers will be traded (basically Contreras or Garland) is if the Sox can upgrade at the SP position. They won't be trading away a starter for an infielder or outfielder and leave a hole in the rotation. (As much as I really love BMac, he's not the answer at this point.)

*EDIT: I DO like the idea of trading Contreras to the Mets, as they are the stupidest team in baseball and would actually consider taking on an albatross like him, but for many reasons I don't think it would be a possibility.

Ol' No. 2
03-18-2005, 10:45 AM
This is getting ridiculous. Has everyone forgotten the biggest problem with the starting rotation we've faced the last few years? A lack of a solid, experienced 5th starter. A month ago everyone was giddy at the thought we had 5 solid starters and wouldn't have to repeat that. We now have at least 3 threads wanting to trade one of those starters and throw McCarthy into the fire after 4 AA starts and 10 IP in ST. He's not ready. Sheesh. :kukoo:

Baby Fisk
03-18-2005, 10:58 AM
This is getting ridiculous. Has everyone forgotten the biggest problem with the starting rotation we've faced the last few years? A lack of a solid, experienced 5th starter. A month ago everyone was giddy at the thought we had 5 solid starters and wouldn't have to repeat that. We now have at least 3 threads wanting to trade one of those starters and throw McCarthy into the fire after 4 AA starts and 10 IP in ST. He's not ready. Sheesh. :kukoo:
I agree. The McCarthyites need to CALM DOWN! People are getting loopy becuase he's had 10 good innings in ST. A majority of people were ready to ship Shingo back to Japan a year ago because his ST was horrible. Let's see how Contreras does in April before launching all these fantasy trades.

FightingBillini
03-18-2005, 11:28 AM
Contreras will win at least 17 games this year. That I guarantee.

mdep524
03-18-2005, 11:30 AM
This is getting ridiculous. Has everyone forgotten the biggest problem with the starting rotation we've faced the last few years? A lack of a solid, experienced 5th starter. A month ago everyone was giddy at the thought we had 5 solid starters and wouldn't have to repeat that. We now have at least 3 threads wanting to trade one of those starters and throw McCarthy into the fire after 4 AA starts and 10 IP in ST. He's not ready. Sheesh. :kukoo: Agreed ON2. But like I said, if there was an opportunity to improve the rotation, KW would probably consider it. Any 5 man rotation comprising Contreras, Garland and El Duque (injury risk) isn't quite as "solid" as it could be.

I don't think an opportunity will present itself, but considering the Sox depth elsewhere and KW's never-quenched thirst for improvement, you never know.

White Sox Randy
03-18-2005, 11:41 AM
Contreras will win at least 17 games this year. That I guarantee.


so much it is that I fear that Contreras will be very inconsistent. I hope you are right Illini. I feel that if Contreras can win 15 games that the Sox will win the division - I just have no confidence in it happening now. Is that a written guarantee ?

SOX ADDICT '73
03-18-2005, 11:45 AM
I DO like the idea of trading Contreras to the Mets, as they are the stupidest team in baseball and would actually consider taking on an albatross like him.
Why is Contreras suddenly an "albatross"? Yeah, he's got problems with his confidence and control, but I keep hearing he's got the best stuff in the rotation and has a huge upside. He pitched very well for us at the end of last season, and finished up by taking a no-no into the seventh inning. Sure, it was only KC, but still. And don't forget, we picked him up while getting rid of a real albatross in Esteban Loser-iza. I got so frustrated watching him pitch last year :angry: ! An albatross is someone or something that's holding you back, but you can't get rid of, no matter how much you want to. Is that really how you'd classify Contreras?

Brian26
03-18-2005, 12:21 PM
Contreras will win at least 17 games this year. That I guarantee.

I would be pleasantly surprised if that happens.

MRKARNO
03-18-2005, 12:49 PM
How exactly are they desperate? Pedro, Glavine, Benson, Zambrano and Trachsel probably make up one of the more solid staffs 1-5 in the National League.

Baby Fisk
03-18-2005, 12:55 PM
How exactly are they desperate? Pedro, Glavine, Benson, Zambrano and Trachsel probably make up one of the more solid staffs 1-5 in the National League.
Trachsel just went down with a herniated disc; he's out for 6 months. Mets are looking at Matt Ginter as the #5 guy. It's not a great situation, especially if Pedro or Glavine underperform or one of the young guys goes bust, but it's hardly desperation.

MRKARNO
03-18-2005, 01:06 PM
Trachsel just went down with a herniated disc; he's out for 6 months. Mets are looking at Matt Ginter as the #5 guy. It's not a great situation, especially if Pedro or Glavine underperform or one of the young guys goes bust, but it's hardly desperation.

I did not know that, so thanks for at least clearing that part up, but if I'm not mistaken, they still have the rights to 2 other pitchers with a fair amount of major league experience in Aaron Heilman and Jae Seo, both of whom might be able to pitch better than Contreras this year.

Jjav829
03-18-2005, 01:12 PM
Jose Contreras to the Mets right now. The Mets are desperate for pitching. I know Contreras has huge potential but I have a big problem with a guy that is atleast 33 years old and still doesn't know how to get hitters out. Brandon McCarthy has a much better idea of how to pitch than this guy does.

I say trade Contreras for Jose Reyes.

Or better yet, how about Contreras and Crede for David Wright. I doubt the Mets would do it but you never know.

I think that the Sox would be in a good position to deal with the Mets who can afford Contreras contract. The question is does KW have the balls to make this trade on the fly and change direction so quickly ?

You're joking, right?

I guess fans of every team seriously overrate some of their players. Contreras wouldn't fetch a bag of balls right now. You think anyone wants to pay him $6 million a year? If the Sox picked up about $3 million a year, they might be able to trade him to a team like the Pirates for say, Rob Mackowiak. Maybe. Jose Reyes or David Wright? Not a chance in hell.

DaleJRFan
03-18-2005, 04:10 PM
Jose Contreras to the Mets right now. The Mets are desperate for pitching. I know Contreras has huge potential but I have a big problem with a guy that is atleast 33 years old and still doesn't know how to get hitters out. Brandon McCarthy has a much better idea of how to pitch than this guy does.

I say trade Contreras for Jose Reyes.

Or better yet, how about Contreras and Crede for David Wright. I doubt the Mets would do it but you never know.

I think that the Sox would be in a good position to deal with the Mets who can afford Contreras contract. The question is does KW have the balls to make this trade on the fly and change direction so quickly ?

Contreras has a no-trade clause. Won't happen. Sox will keep Contreras regardless. He'll make a great closer. When McBrendan is ready for the Bigs, convert Jose to a closer.

Lip Man 1
03-18-2005, 06:02 PM
Mets are about to get Isshi from the Dodgers according to Fox Sports.

Lip

JB98
03-21-2005, 09:37 PM
Contreras has a no-trade clause. Won't happen. Sox will keep Contreras regardless. He'll make a great closer. When McBrendan is ready for the Bigs, convert Jose to a closer.

I disagree. The thing that gets Contreras in trouble is erratic control/high walk total. We went down that road with Koch, and it was a disaster. There's nothing worse than a closer who gets beat by giving guys free passes. The best closers are the ones that throw strikes (Foulke), not necessarily those with the best stuff. Contreras has the stuff to close, but not the control.

Banix12
03-21-2005, 11:46 PM
Contreras' Averages are largely due to his inconsistancies. In 2/3 of his starts last season, his good starts, his ERA was under 3. In the other 1/3 of starts his ERA was over 13. He has the ability to win 15-20 games and still have an ERA well over 5 because of the way he is inconsistant. It's just there will be ten games you probably have no chance of winning.

Even if McCarthy is going to pitch in his or Garland's place. McCarthy is still a rookie going into his first season in the majors, jumping from only a couple innings in AA. He is likely to wear down as this would be the most innings he will have ever pitched and having a sixth starting pitcher to make a couple of spot starts giving him a day off from time to time is something we would need.

mdep524
03-22-2005, 01:01 AM
Even if McCarthy is going to pitch in his or Garland's place. McCarthy is still a rookie going into his first season in the majors, jumping from only a couple innings in AA. He is likely to wear down as this would be the most innings he will have ever pitched and having a sixth starting pitcher to make a couple of spot starts giving him a day off from time to time is something we would need.
I agree and think this is very, very important. Highlight this, underline it, put stars next to it. Even if BMac is, at some point, added to the rotation this year, and even if he is dominant (which I think is a possibility), he can't be overworked during the August through October months! He has never come close to the innings a major league starter would amass, and it could be very very harmful both in the short term (his performance starts to decline) and in the long term (big time injury risk, like Prior).