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Ol' No. 2
03-17-2005, 03:49 PM
Unfortunately, this just has to be done.

NonetheLoaiza
03-17-2005, 03:52 PM
Schilling seems to be saying what he thinks is best to say, but not necessarilty right. For that reason, I would say he's the biggest tool...

PaleHoseGeorge
03-17-2005, 03:53 PM
This needs to be multiple choice.

Schilling or McGwire. Take your pick.

Ol' No. 2
03-17-2005, 03:54 PM
This needs to be multiple choice.

Schilling or McGwire. Take your pick.If it was multiple choice, you'd have to vote for all of them.

Daver
03-17-2005, 03:57 PM
Congress, for wasting our tax dollars on this dog and pony show in the first place.

Frater Perdurabo
03-17-2005, 03:58 PM
Sosa - for having the best lawyer.

PaleHoseGeorge
03-17-2005, 04:00 PM
If it was multiple choice, you'd have to vote for all of them.

Of course you're right.
:cool:

I voted McGwire. He is most obviously the one most guilty and just as obviously benefitting the most from the ground rules his lawyer negotiated to appear in front of the panel.

Schilling gets honorable mention. I never suspected the MLBPA was so obviously working in concert with the owners conspiring to keep this scandal from the public. Schilling has brought the reality home with his belligerent and condescending answers. He's a professional athlete and he has an incredible sense of entitlement. He needs to be taken down 2 or 3 notches. A Grand Jury indictment ought to do the trick.
:cool:

voodoochile
03-17-2005, 04:05 PM
This needs to be multiple choice.

Schilling or McGwire. Take your pick.

I totally agree. McGwire isn't saying crap even when asked for his opinion. How can you not even comment on your own opinion? :?:

Still, I voted Schilling because he is a waffling weasling pol...

Baby Fisk
03-17-2005, 04:07 PM
Still, I voted Schilling because he is a waffling weasling pol...

Today's woeful pageant has confirmed what I've always believed about Schilling: he's a selfish, greedy tool. You know, more than the other tools at the table. :cool:

FightingBillini
03-17-2005, 04:18 PM
I cant comment because I didn't see the entire session, but what did Schilling say that was weaselly, condescending, waffling, selfish, or belligerent?

Soxzilla
03-17-2005, 04:18 PM
Why isn't Thomas answering any questions?

PaleHoseGeorge
03-17-2005, 04:19 PM
Still, I voted Schilling because he is a waffling weasling pol...

By what the congressmen on the panel are saying about Schilling, I'm guessing they would vote with you and your opinion.

Ol' No. 2
03-17-2005, 04:47 PM
http://eponinebob.tripod.com/mcgwire/practice33.jpg I'm not here to talk about the past. And did I mention I'm retired?

Soxzilla
03-17-2005, 04:49 PM
I'm not here to talk about the past. And did I mention I'm retired? Let's all be positive here. I'm here to be positive, not negative.

fixed.:rolleyes:

Ol' No. 2
03-17-2005, 05:00 PM
fixed.:rolleyes:I'm positive, too. I'm positive they're all lying sacks of ****.:angry:

Lip Man 1
03-17-2005, 05:02 PM
Your poll may need to be updated, we haven't heard Proud To Be Your Bud yet have we?

Lip

Ol' No. 2
03-17-2005, 05:07 PM
Your poll may need to be updated, we haven't heard Proud To Be Your Bud yet have we?

LipI assumed he'd be off the charts. Although these guys are going to be hard to top. Nevertheless, I have confidence that Bud will come through.

DrCrawdad
03-17-2005, 05:26 PM
F. All of the above.

illinibk
03-17-2005, 05:36 PM
Schilling came off as nothing more than a mouthpiece for the owners and MLBPA working on conjunction with each other. I have never heard anyone sound as pompous and arrogant as Schilling did.

He kept toting around the positive test results dropped from 5-6% to 1.7% the next year. La di frickin' da. How 1.7% tested positive knowing the test was coming is beyond me. No to mention, not every player was tested, and tested players were only tested once. *****.

Macguire gets second place, but I'm not here to talk about the past, so I can't really judge Mac's testimony.

Sosa, got off real well. For a guy who can speak just fine whenever he wants, I find it very convenient that he suddenly forgot how to speak english.

Coolest guy? By far the congressman who sounded like Al Pacino.

UofCSoxFan
03-17-2005, 05:36 PM
I voted for McGwire simply b/c it pissed me off that he never actually said, "I want to invoke the 5th Ammendment"..,..that would have been like in the movies and badass....a lot cooler than..."I'm retired and don't want to talk about the past." Schil was also a joke. I could tell a lot of Reps were thinking, "Why'd we ask this guy to chair the investigative group?" It was like the Know-nothing party of the late nineteenth (or early twentieth?) cenury.

That being said, the biggest tool by far is the female Dem from California in the green business suit that keeps holding up the picture of Arnold Swartzenagger (sp?). I mean c'mon...I don't know what her personal vendetta is against the guy (she also ripped him for cigar smoking) but get off it. You have 5 min to speak and you spend 3 of them going off on a diabe against someone who isn't even there to defend himself and isn't very relevant to the proceeding reagarding mlb.

The other guy that spent his 5 min criticizing the media for not being present when Congress discusses more important issues like health care also was a tool.

Clembasbal
03-17-2005, 05:37 PM
I had to vote for Rafael because at the start of his statement his pointed to the chairman and told him in a mean tone that he never took steriods. He wasn't on trial, he is a 500 HR guy that they are just asking because of his numbers and Canseco's book.

Tool...oh yeah, and he played for the Cubs, and did Sanburg's wife.

FJA
03-17-2005, 06:21 PM
I'd like to add Selig to the list. Not that anyone expected him NOT to be a tool.

NUCatsFan
03-17-2005, 06:32 PM
I'm gonna put Mr Manfred on that list now. He's making this inquiry worth watching. Too bad I didn't get to watch the players (was busy with other stuff)

illinibk
03-17-2005, 06:34 PM
I'm gonna put Mr Manfred on that list now. He's making this inquiry worth watching. Too bad I didn't get to watch the players (was busy with other stuff)
Absolutely. Never seen a guy so beligerent over questions. Not to mention his arrogance as well.

FJA
03-17-2005, 06:43 PM
Absolutely. Never seen a guy so beligerent over questions. Not to mention his arrogance as well.

I think the whole baseball management panel has been pretty arrogant (though Manfred particularly), and again shows the absolute failure of leadership under Bud Selig.

flo-B-flo
03-17-2005, 06:57 PM
It's time to take a shower. Go and watch basketball. And drink beer to try and calm down from all this bull. The union guys and Bud are real busy making the politicians ask even more questions. So they can spin and spin.

illinibk
03-17-2005, 06:58 PM
I think the whole baseball management panel has been pretty arrogant (though Manfred particularly), and again shows the absolute failure of leadership under Bud Selig.
Failure of leadership...Where is Donald Trump to give his peace of mind on this and to fire someone?

voodoochile
03-18-2005, 12:23 AM
Failure of leadership...Where is Donald Trump to give his peace of mind on this and to fire someone?

:tool
"Why are you looking at me?"

Mohoney
03-18-2005, 12:34 AM
I voted Sosa, just out of force of habit.

Whenever any "Biggest Tool of (insert event here)" poll includes Sosa, he will always get my vote.
Besides, the biggest fraud of all wasn't even there, making the whole thing a waste of time and money.

WhiteSoxFan84
03-18-2005, 12:57 AM
I'm probably the only one but I really do feel bad for Mark McGwire. The guy did what he did, baseball knew about it, and they still celebrated him. Now, a jealous former teammate of his writes a book and snitches on him and Congress (GO LOWER TAXES, PRICE OF GAS, TERRORIST THREATS, AND MORE IMPORTANT CRAP. 4 KIDS KILL THEMSELVES "BECAUSE OF STEROIDS" AND YOU PULL THIS THING OFF? GET BACK TO WORK YOU GOOFS!) jumps on these guys with NO PROOF and just word of mouth.

As dirty as Jose Canseco is viewed by the world, I respect him for admitting to using steroids. I do not respect him for naming names.

Rafael Palmeiro, I never suspected him of anything so he's fine.

Sammy Sosa....... I'm just waiting til the day he gets caught up with steroids and when asked about denying using them infront of the House he says, "Hey, I never said anything...that old white guy said HE never used them".

McGwire..... you made it pretty clear today that you were on roids. That being said, a lack of a testing policy and MLB making it so easy for you to do, I can see why you did it. You "save the game" and then you get this crap. I never liked you until now Mark. Wish you the best.

Everyone else....... good luck?

spongyfungy
03-18-2005, 02:36 AM
Sosa, got off real well. For a guy who can speak just fine whenever he wants, I find it very convenient that he suddenly forgot how to speak english.


Exactly! He also convenietly forgot how to speak english after he corked his bat. "I uhpahlo-jai"

Coolest guy? By far the congressman who sounded like Al Pacino.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who thought that. I also like that Gil Gutknecht. The guy talking about Killebrew. He had a good play by play voice and that other dude talking about the bash brothers.

But that one congresslady mocking McGwire's response takes the cake.

Nellie_Fox
03-18-2005, 02:55 AM
McGwire..... you made it pretty clear today that you were on roids. That being said, a lack of a testing policy and MLB making it so easy for you to do, I can see why you did it. You "save the game" and then you get this crap. I never liked you until now Mark. Wish you the best.Wow. Seriously? You like him better after he can't even give a personal opinion as to whether using steroids is cheating? After he answers that with "that's not for me to say?" The guy can't even give an opinion? Maybe because he knows he was cheating?

So, a lack of a testing policy overrides the fact that steroids were a federally scheduled controlled substance, making their use a federal crime. Give me a freaking break. McGwire was an absolute embarassment today. "I'm not here to talk about the past." "That's not for me to say." I've heard mafia guys be less disengenuous under questioning by grand juries.

WhiteSoxFan84
03-18-2005, 03:23 AM
Wow. Seriously? You like him better after he can't even give a personal opinion as to whether using steroids is cheating? After he answers that with "that's not for me to say?" The guy can't even give an opinion? Maybe because he knows he was cheating?

So, a lack of a testing policy overrides the fact that steroids were a federally scheduled controlled substance, making their use a federal crime. Give me a freaking break. McGwire was an absolute embarassment today. "I'm not here to talk about the past." "That's not for me to say." I've heard mafia guys be less disengenuous under questioning by grand juries.

He was singled out and attacked by that one senator. If the guy was going to plead the 5th leave him alone. After one senator attacked him, another, Cummings, again attacked him. If the guy won't answer the first time what makes you think he will answer the 2nd time? Pissed me off how they didn't ask Sammy, "How the hell did you go from 180 pounds in 1991 to 245 pounds or whatever the hell you are right now?"

Just a load of CRAP if you ask me. Big Mac was always huge and yes he became unearthly huge around 1998. But to attack him and single him out the way they did, it was just crap. That panel was a joke. If Jose Canseco couldn't comment on everything, shouldn't have been there. Rafael Palmeiro just shouldn't have been there. If Sammy Sosa was going to act like he just came to America and didn't understand a word anybody said, he shouldn't have been there.

Bring in more supposed cheaters. Hey, how about some of the 96 that tested positive in 2004? There's an idea. But nooo, that's too good of idea. Instead, let's go hunt down a RETIRED PLAYER who's stats can not be changed (no matter what anyone thinks, there will be no asterisks and there will be no records changed). Hell, he doesn't even hold the HR record for a single season anymore. What he did, if anything (and yes I do think he juiced up), no longer affects the game. As he said, he leads a quiet life with his family and in no way does he intend to be in the public eye anymore where little kids look up to him and want to juice up the way he did.

Let's attack current players like Sosa, Jason Giambi, Barry Bonds, and company. You want to talk about being in the public eye where high schoolers can see you and want to be like you? Look at what Bonds has done and is about to do. Hell, MLB is going to run an ad campaign about Bonds' historic HR chase! Even though he admitted to using steroids!!! If we're going to advertise this cheater, why don't we advertise them all? Bring out Pete Rose. Bring out the 1919 White Sox. Hell, let's start selling steroids @ MLBshop.com while we're at it.

Let's attack professional wrestling for putting those human statues in the ring and making kids want to grow up to be like them. Let's attack professional bodybuilding for demanding perfection that for some people can only be reached by using steroids. That's what Congress should be doing if they want to get involved. Don't bring up a retired player who's climax was almost a decade ago.

That leads me to another problem I have with this whole issue. Instead of going after the younger guys who are suspected of being on roids or even tested positive, they're going after the older guys. These guys are almost done. Other than Bonds, none of the rest are even that effective anymore. The younger guys are the one's that have a chance to do serious damage to the record books and essentially to the image of the game which is already a dark one. Check out the Hank Blalocks (just a suggestion, I have no idea whether he juices or not) and the Miguel Cabreras (see Blalock).

Banix12
03-18-2005, 03:45 AM
McGwire or Schilling, hmm. I have to go with McGwire for the basic reason that he was a tool during the proceedings and Schilling is just an all around tool regardless.

I know there were some who thought Palmeiro was a tool for the angry tone he took at the beginning of this but actually I gained a bit more respect for him after that. I think he saw he was getting set up as an example of roids in action, especially after Schilling and Thomas were appointed to that task force, thus separating them from the players perceived to be dirty. He was frank and to the point with his opening remark and was able to set him further apart from the likes of Canseco, Big Mac, and Sosa with his anger, at least in my view.

I never saw any reason for Palmerio to be on that panel. I don't know if he ever took them but I never really associated him with steroids and don't particularly think he did. The only thing that links him at all is Canseco's book, and it's not like everything in that is provable or even true.

As for Sandburg's wife and being a former cub, that's an unrelated matter.

hose
03-18-2005, 06:02 AM
Congress, for wasting our tax dollars on this dog and pony show in the first place.

DING DING DING ......we have a winner

Fredsox
03-18-2005, 06:45 AM
DING DING DING ......we have a winner

I've said it before and I'll say it again: The idea that Congress is wasting your money is convenient but fallacious. 1. Baseball benefits financially from YOUR tax protection and anti-trust protection. 2. If baseball had cleaned this up themselves there would be no hearings.

You can suspect the motives of Congress but you cannot question either their authority or the significant attention that these hearings have caused. As far as MLB is concerned, clearly they are more interested in doing what they need to do to stop the questions. I don't think anyone believes they are truly interested in solving the problem.

PaleHoseGeorge
03-18-2005, 07:57 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again: The idea that Congress is wasting your money is convenient but fallacious. 1. Baseball benefits financially from YOUR tax protection and anti-trust protection. 2. If baseball had cleaned this up themselves there would be no hearings.

You can suspect the motives of Congress but you cannot question either their authority or the significant attention that these hearings have caused. As far as MLB is concerned, clearly they are more interested in doing what they need to do to stop the questions. I don't think anyone believes they are truly interested in solving the problem.

Yep. What else was Congress going to do on a Thursday in March? Watch the NCAA tournament in one of the galleys, waiting around for some procedural vote on the budget? Gimme a break... they waste our money 24/7/365... at least we got a full day's work from them yesterday.

McGwire, Schilling, Fehr, and Selig all showed just how much they're hiding. Whoever compared McGwire's answers to a mafioso hit it right on the head. Now some enterprising young D.A. can convene a grand jury and sic a pack of lawyers on these cheats and frauds to tear them from limb to limb. The BALCO grand jury simply isn't big enough to capture all the dirt baseball is hiding.

Good theater... at least as good as Illinois nearly choking against Farleigh Dickinson... and 100-times more relevant, too.

Ol' No. 2
03-18-2005, 09:24 AM
Wow. Seriously? You like him better after he can't even give a personal opinion as to whether using steroids is cheating? After he answers that with "that's not for me to say?" The guy can't even give an opinion? Maybe because he knows he was cheating?

So, a lack of a testing policy overrides the fact that steroids were a federally scheduled controlled substance, making their use a federal crime. Give me a freaking break. McGwire was an absolute embarassment today. "I'm not here to talk about the past." "That's not for me to say." I've heard mafia guys be less disengenuous under questioning by grand juries.Aww. Give McGwire a break. He's retired, you know.

Ol' No. 2
03-18-2005, 09:28 AM
Congress, for wasting our tax dollars on this dog and pony show in the first place.There are still a lot of hungry people in the world. Maybe we shouldn't be wasting money on baseball. Maybe we should cancel the season and donate the money we would have spent to worthy charities.

PaleHoseGeorge
03-18-2005, 09:36 AM
Aww. Give McGwire a break. He's retired, you know.

You forgot "not going to talk about the past" and "I'm here to do something positive."

Nothing but a "dog and pony show?" Yeah sure... and grand juries are nothing but fishing exhibitions, too. But they both lead to indictments and they both lead to jailtime for liars and crooks.

Anybody who thinks that freckled dope and his coconspirators is going to get off this easy just isn't thinking straight.

jackbrohamer
03-18-2005, 09:52 AM
As pitiful as McGwire was yesterday, Sosa and Palmeiro were worse because they outright perjured themselves by denying they took steroids. In today's papers McGwire is taking all the heat even though the ex-Scrubs are just as guilty and perjurers on top of it.

And (can't believe I'm saying this) I agreed with almost everything Canseco said, especially about how MLB and the players union will never do anything meaningful until forced to. It was great watching Selig squirm whenever Canseco said anything.

Ol' No. 2
03-18-2005, 09:53 AM
You forgot "not going to talk about the past" and "I'm here to do something positive."

Nothing but a "dog and pony show?" Yeah sure... and grand juries are nothing but fishing exhibitions, too. But they both lead to indictments and they both lead to jailtime for liars and crooks.

Anybody who thinks that freckled dope and his coconspirators is going to get off this easy just isn't thinking straight.
You know what McGwire reminded me of? One of those dolls with the string coming out of the back of its neck. Pull the string and it talks in one of 4 pre-recorded phrases.

Bucky F. Dent
03-18-2005, 10:30 AM
IMHO, the biggest tools in all of this are the Congressmen who are taking the opportunity to grandstand "For The Love Of The Game."

These are serious times for a country with serious foreign and domestic problems that must be addressed, and you're going to investigate baseball!

You wanna eliminate drugs that harm kids, get rid of crack, get rid of heroin, get rid of methamphetamines.

These jock sniffers make me sick!:angry:

Flight #24
03-18-2005, 12:13 PM
Well, FWIW - Patrick just called out Sosa on the radio for his act. "I believe it was a ploy", and mentioned that he's interviewed him before and never had an issue with the language.


Of course, he still gives him an "incomplete" rather than an "F".

wassagstdu
03-18-2005, 12:16 PM
Everyone except Frank Thomas. McGwire is outta here. Very bad advice from his lawyer. He wouldn't have gone to jail anyway, but he just simply destroyed himself. Either Sammy is telling the truth or he is a liar and a cheat. Don't know which, but I have my suspicions and liar is worse than cheat. Maybe he figures he can escape to the Dominican Republic if he gets caught for perjury. Schilling looks like he aspires to politics, though frankly for the first time in a long time I thought the politicians behaved well and honorably.

One more thought: I think this whole steroid thing has victimized Frank Thomas perhaps more than anyone (other than the users themselves). Imagine where he would be if not for the cheats. The 2000 mvp is just the tip of the iceberg.

Ol' No. 2
03-18-2005, 12:39 PM
Everyone except Frank Thomas. McGwire is outta here. Very bad advice from his lawyer. He wouldn't have gone to jail anyway, but he just simply destroyed himself. Either Sammy is telling the truth or he is a liar and a cheat. Don't know which, but I have my suspicions and liar is worse than cheat. Maybe he figures he can escape to the Dominican Republic if he gets caught for perjury. Schilling looks like he aspires to politics, though frankly for the first time in a long time I thought the politicians behaved well and honorably.

One more thought: I think this whole steroid thing has victimized Frank Thomas perhaps more than anyone (other than the users themselves). Imagine where he would be if not for the cheats. The 2000 mvp is just the tip of the iceberg.EVERYONE who has played the game honestly for the last 15+ years has been victimized, and if I were in their shoes, I'd be PISSED.

Shorty1983
03-20-2005, 10:55 PM
Congress for spending 12 hours of air time to explain 2 mins of a problem.

Kids don't take steriods.
Toughen up the steriod policy.
I'm not hear to talk about the past.

TornLabrum
03-20-2005, 11:58 PM
Whoever compared McGwire's answers to a mafioso hit it right on the head.

I disagree. I remember the Kefauver hearings, and I remember the hearings where that one mobster revealed the existence of La Cosa Nostra (and I wish I could remember his name). The mobsters who weren't singing at least had the balls to say, "I respectfully decline to answer on the grounds that it might tend to incriminate me."

Of course if McGwire took steroids, that might explain his lack of balls.

gosox41
03-21-2005, 05:32 AM
Unfortunately, this just has to be done.

Big Mac. But the hearings were last week and I'm not here to talk about the past only the future.


Bob

wdelaney72
03-21-2005, 08:57 AM
The thing with Sosa to remember is that the rest of the country does not know how well he speaks English. Those of us in the Chicagoland area have had the unfortunate privilege of seeing this guy everywhere for the last 10 years and know very well that he has a solid grasp of the English language.

I voted for McGwire, but Sosa was a very close second.

FireReinsdorf
03-21-2005, 11:58 AM
The biggest tools of the steroid scandal are baseball fans.

Congress does have the anti-trust exemption to hold over baseballs head, but it's nothing compared to the ringing endorsement our money provides baseball every year.

We all enjoyed the home run race in 1998, right? We marveled at McGwire and conveniently ignored the andro story of the same year. It saved baseball and y'all forgave the jerks for striking.

Even though we don't know the names of the players on steroids (except for the few provided by the media), we all know there are players in MLB on steroids right now. MLB doesn't need to change because we're going to giving up our hard earned dollars to watch these cheaters hit monster home runs in hitter ball parks. We can whine and cry about the player and owners. We can complain about congress. But the real blame falls on us, the consumer. But go ahead and blame everyone else, if it makes you feel better while you keep those turnstiles spinning.