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daveeym
03-17-2005, 10:02 AM
Lineup is linked below.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cs-050316steroidinfobox,1,225670.story?coll=cs-home-headlines&ctrack=1&cset=true

mantis1212
03-17-2005, 10:20 AM
Does anyone know if this is broadcasted over the internet anywhere?

daveeym
03-17-2005, 10:22 AM
Does anyone know if this is broadcasted over the internet anywhere? Espn.com has a link and says it will broadcast it. The link it just below the main headline box along with the tourney links.

daveeym
03-17-2005, 10:27 AM
Just tuned in and Souter is issuing the statement for the committee but did insinuate that this is being used for publicity. They've been investigating all drug issues and the media ignores it and thus this is a related avenue to draw attention to it. One interesting fact steroid use by teens has gone from 1 in 45 in 1993 to 1 in 16 in 2003.

daveeym
03-17-2005, 10:29 AM
Taking MLB to task over anti-trust exemption and how it benefits them and then needed to be supboenaed. If anyone takes the 5th it will be a great tragedy.

daveeym
03-17-2005, 10:32 AM
Point of law in general - Users are subject to misdemeanor charges and first time distributors 5 years of jail.

tlebar318
03-17-2005, 10:33 AM
I am very interested in this hearing and I am listening right now but so far it is a big snoozzzzzzzzzzzzzze fest! Rather boring opening statements--

StepsInSC
03-17-2005, 10:36 AM
Does anyone know if this is broadcasted over the internet anywhere?

its over on MLB.tv

daveeym
03-17-2005, 10:36 AM
Bunning now on. Called as "leadoff witness". No one laughed.

Edit: Bunning isn't making himself a senator or president for sure. Can't get a word out without stumbling over it.

daveeym
03-17-2005, 10:40 AM
Bunning: Users records and stats should be wiped out from when they used.

-It's not the players and owners game it's ours (the peoples). They get the benefit and joy of playing it for a short time.

-MLB turned a blind and ???Created smaller parks??? we must ask why they've done this.

-Call me old fashioned but i remember when players didn't get better but worse as they aged. They didnt' add 40 lbs of muscle and hit more home runs in their late 30's then when they were younger.

-it's up to baseball to fix it and if they don't congress will.

-Now tearing into baseball leaving out the "or a fine" for offenses and the related revelations that came yesterday.

-Bunnign really pissed about records being marred.

-did make an odd statement that today shouldn't be the time to determine if these players were using as far back as 92, 93 but sometime in the future.

-players should be banned from game for steroids.

-you'll hear stats from MLB that you won't believe "1% of players only using"

-without naming names how do you have a 245 lb right handed 2nd basemen hitting 450 ft bombs to right center field.

-anti-trust exemption should be on the table to readdress if baseball is not reacting to its problems.

-major problem is that its in the middle of a collectively bargained labor agreement. Congress won't really be able to do anything till contract is done.

End of Bunnings testimony.

tlebar318
03-17-2005, 10:43 AM
Bunning just said that when he played players got worse as they got older-not better--referencing Bonds in my opinion.....

Mickster
03-17-2005, 10:49 AM
Now stating 1st offense in baseball's new drug policy is 10 days suspension or up to $10K in fines w/o disclosure???? :?:

tlebar318
03-17-2005, 10:51 AM
Now stating 1st offense in baseball's new drug policy is 10 days suspension or up to $10K in fines w/o disclosure???? :?:

yeah they were criticizing that on Mike and Mike on ESPN...they were saying they did not know about the OR either.....

jackbrohamer
03-17-2005, 10:51 AM
Edit: Bunning isn't making himself a senator or president for sure. Can't get a word out without stumbling over it.

FWIW, Bunning is believed by many to be suffering from some form of mental illness. His public behavior the last year or so has been very bizarre and he is frequently incoherent.

StepsInSC
03-17-2005, 10:52 AM
Now stating 1st offense in baseball's new drug policy is 10 days suspension or up to $10K in fines w/o disclosure???? :?:

I was listening to Mike & Mike this moring and they were saying that this was included to give the Commish some discretion, but that only in inadvertant steroid-use situations would the OR "monetary fine" be used. For example if a player left the country and consumed them outside of the US w/o realizing it. But only in extreme cases would there not be a suspension.

Jaffar
03-17-2005, 11:00 AM
I just went to whitesox.com and they have a link to watch it online.

Mickster
03-17-2005, 11:01 AM
I was listening to Mike & Mike this moring and they were saying that this was included to give the Commish some discretion, but that only in inadvertant steroid-use situations would the OR "monetary fine" be used. For example if a player left the country and consumed them outside of the US w/o realizing it. But only in extreme cases would there not be a suspension.

Now you sound like Bonds.

Ol' No. 2
03-17-2005, 11:05 AM
I was listening to Mike & Mike this moring and they were saying that this was included to give the Commish some discretion, but that only in inadvertant steroid-use situations would the OR "monetary fine" be used. For example if a player left the country and consumed them outside of the US w/o realizing it. But only in extreme cases would there not be a suspension.Do they put steroids in salt shakers in other parts of the world?:?:

daveeym
03-17-2005, 11:08 AM
I was listening to Mike & Mike this moring and they were saying that this was included to give the Commish some discretion, but that only in inadvertant steroid-use situations would the OR "monetary fine" be used. For example if a player left the country and consumed them outside of the US w/o realizing it. But only in extreme cases would there not be a suspension. That's your mistake not ours. :redneck

DrCrawdad
03-17-2005, 11:13 AM
Do they put steroids in salt shakers in other parts of the world?:?:

In the SF lockerroom it's put in body oil.

daveeym
03-17-2005, 11:19 AM
Buster Olney and espn crew sayign Mlb is being beaten like a pinata so far. LOL.

DrCrawdad
03-17-2005, 11:22 AM
How long is this hearing suppose to go on? It's time for their 2 hr lunch and they've only had opening statements & Jim Bunning.

daveeym
03-17-2005, 11:23 AM
How long is this hearing suppose to go on? It's time for their 2 hr lunch and they've only had opening statements & Jim Bunning. All day and there's a break for a vote right now.

The Wimperoo
03-17-2005, 11:24 AM
They said Sammy Sosa has an interpreter with him. Like he needs that. What a scam.

UofCSoxFan
03-17-2005, 11:25 AM
So far I'm suprised by how one sided the questions have been. All have been an attack on baseball, and a bashing of Selig in particular. I liked how they compared the hard lined stances to cheating taken by comisheners during the Black Sox scandal (which I'll never mention again) and the Pete Rose gambling...both of which there was not conclusive proof that people actually tried to alter the game...here we have confessions and no action.

It was subtle but Bunning "while not naming names" referenced 200 lbs 2nd basemen hitting 425 foot hr to right center.....Soriano anyone?

Interesting side note.....the Congressmen from Minnesota discussed for about a minute how Nellie Fox was his favorite player growing up....we got operatives from enemy territory...would be interesting to see his voting record concerning funding for a new Twins stadium :)

daveeym
03-17-2005, 11:26 AM
ESPN just said Sosa will have an interpreter with him if necessary. LOL "me no speaka da english."

DrCrawdad
03-17-2005, 11:27 AM
All day and there's a break for a vote right now.

Is this scheduled for one day? If so there is no way that is going to happen.

daveeym
03-17-2005, 11:32 AM
Is this scheduled for one day? If so there is no way that is going to happen. Yes and I'm thinking the same thing, may go till tomorrow.

voodoochile
03-17-2005, 11:33 AM
They said Sammy Sosa has an interpreter with him. Like he needs that. What a scam.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

:nandrolone
"No habla "steroid", Senior Senator."

DrCrawdad
03-17-2005, 11:33 AM
ESPN just said Sosa will have an interpreter with him if necessary. LOL "me no speaka da english."

Dusty puts his kid on his lap to deflect tough questions. The "me no speaka da english" is something that Sosa and others use to delay and deflect.

Of course if someone does not understand English, then of course they should have translator afforded to them. I just don't believe Sosa requires one, just my opinion though.

Will they actually put the question to Sosa, "Have you ever used HGH or anabolic steroids?" And if they do will they allow Sosa to use that stupid Flinstones vitamins deflection? I sure hope they press Sosa and others.

Jaffar
03-17-2005, 11:37 AM
Will they actually put the question to Sosa, "Have you ever used HGH or anabolic steroids?" And if they do will they allow Sosa to use that stupid Flinstones vitamins deflection? I sure hope they press Sosa and others.

Funny thing is Big Frank says in his opening statement that he never used steriods. Will other players make that statement if not asked? A little reading between the lines maybe?

UofCSoxFan
03-17-2005, 11:41 AM
Not everyone on the committee is asked to testify as part of a which hunt to find out who's done steroids. Thomas is speaking because he is a huge advocate against it and can give honest answers to how far the problem goes...I'm assuming Schilling is speaking for the same reasons.

Phrase of the day, "I would like to invoke my 5th Ammendment right."

If it wasn't 10 am you could play a serious drinking game to this in honor of St. Patricks Day :gulp:

Rocklive99
03-17-2005, 11:41 AM
Woah woah woah, where did this fine come from?!?! For all we know, every player could have tested positive and been fined $1. Selig and Fehr are in some deep you know what...that's going to be ugly when their panel comes up

na_na_na_na
03-17-2005, 11:43 AM
Cspan has coverage
http://www.c-span.org/watch/cspan3_rm.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS3

StepsInSC
03-17-2005, 11:43 AM
Good job berating the messenger.

You asked about the OR and I told you the consensus. Regardless of what radio show it came on...it wasn't like it was Mike or Mike making conclusory statements, however I don't remember the guy who explained the purpose of the OR provision - to give Selig some discretion which would only be used in the most unimaginable of situations.

Everyone's a comedian. Sheesh.

Rocklive99
03-17-2005, 11:45 AM
So, does anyone else see it a little dangerous to have McGwire and Canseco in the same proximity (and possibly Palmeiro)?

StepsInSC
03-17-2005, 11:46 AM
So far I'm suprised by how one sided the questions have been. All have been an attack on baseball, and a bashing of Selig in particular. I liked how they compared the hard lined stances to cheating taken by comisheners during the Black Sox scandal (which I'll never mention again) and the Pete Rose gambling...both of which there was not conclusive proof that people actually tried to alter the game...here we have confessions and no action.

It was subtle but Bunning "while not naming names" referenced 200 lbs 2nd basemen hitting 425 foot hr to right center.....Soriano anyone?


Boone was the first that came to my mind. He weighs more than Soriano but is shorter.

Rocklive99
03-17-2005, 11:47 AM
Phrase of the day, "I would like to invoke my 5th Ammendment right."

If it wasn't 10 am you could play a serious drinking game to this in honor of St. Patricks Day :gulp:

LOL, I'm sure it's not too early for some. Anyone ever seen the Chappelle Show episode where all he does is plead the 5th? "I pleadith the fifitz"

StepsInSC
03-17-2005, 11:47 AM
So, does anyone else see it a little dangerous to have McGwire and Canseco in the same proximity (and possibly Palmeiro)?

Do you think they'd be stupid enough to brawl in front of a Congressional Comittee? Canseco I could see...

Rocklive99
03-17-2005, 11:48 AM
Boone was the first that came to my mind. He weighs more than Soriano but is shorter.

Soriano came to mind first, but now that I think about it, Boone is the much more logical suspect, good call

daveeym
03-17-2005, 11:50 AM
Soriano came to mind first, but now that I think about it, Boone is the much more logical suspect, good call I was thinking boone as well.

DrCrawdad
03-17-2005, 11:53 AM
So, does anyone else see it a little dangerous to have McGwire and Canseco in the same proximity (and possibly Palmeiro)?

If I were Canseco I'd watch out if I walked by Palmeiro, he might stiff arm him.
:)

Flight #24
03-17-2005, 11:55 AM
If I were Canseco I'd watch out if I walked by Palmeiro, he might stiff arm him.
:)

I'd pay Jose $5 to try that old "Bash Brothers" arm thing with McGwire!

Jaffar
03-17-2005, 11:58 AM
wow, this is going to be good. This lady is starting it off good. Really taking it to the players. Blatantly calling Bonds a liar.

daveeym
03-17-2005, 11:58 AM
Testimony of parents of Rob Garibaldi

Lead in

-used to go from 159-185 lbs at usc.

-scouts said he was a head case and new it was roids.

-got steroids by going over border. Took an hour.

-trainer aided him.

-Coaches dismissed him as a behavioral problem.

-became depressed and went to a residential treatment center

-spiralled into depression and shot himself at 24 in his car 2 blocks from home.

Mom:

-RANTING and angry calling out bonds etc.

-calling him "Dr." canseco and basically calling him an ass.

-mentions how son said "I don't do drugs, I'm a ballplayer and this is what they do."



Dad:

DrCrawdad
03-17-2005, 11:59 AM
I'd pay Jose $5 to try that old "Bash Brothers" arm thing with McGwire!

Canseco's inflated arms might snap the now puny arms of McGwire.

UofCSoxFan
03-17-2005, 11:59 AM
Yeah Great Call on Boone. Soriano doesn't look on roids really but fit the power description.

No one thought Willie Harris?

Flight #24
03-17-2005, 12:00 PM
Testimony of parents of Rob Garibaldi

Lead in

-used to go from 159-185 lbs at usc.

-scouts said he was a head case and new it was roids.

-got steroids by going over border. Took an hour.

-trainer aided him.

-Coaches dismissed him as a behavioral problem.

-became depressed and went to a residential treatment center

-spiralled into depression and shot himself at 24 in his car 2 blocks from home.

Mom:



Dad:

One point you missed: scouts, etc said he had all the tools but needed to get bigger, and someone "recommended he try steroids".

The obivous question would be who made the recommendation. If it was someone affiliated with the Angels (the scouts he dealt with), I would think they'd be liable in some way.

daveeym
03-17-2005, 12:03 PM
Tyler Hooten's Father:

-son displayed medical textbook signs of usage.

-at 6'3 175 told he had to get bigger to make varsity HIGH SCHOOL team.

-kids are telling him 1/3 of their teammates juice on High School football teams.

-sick of hearing athletes say they're not rolemodels, like it or not your are.

-players aren't just cheaters but cowards. Afraid to step on the field like a man and afraid to face the people and authorities. Be a man and admit to use.

-saying hiding behind attorneys is bs, you've already been judged by the public. And the kids are following your examples.

-Going after MLB now.

-screw asterisks players should be turned over to authorities and jailed.

-saying coaches across the country (high school especially) should be certified for being able to ??? teach against steroids. (lost track of what he was saying there)

Jaffar
03-17-2005, 12:03 PM
COWARDS!!!!!!!

SoxEd
03-17-2005, 12:04 PM
I just switched on half-way through the last lady's testimony;

Wow, just wow.

She's really laid in to the Powers That Be in Baseball - not only called Bonds a Liar, but also calling out MLB for having to insert a specific rule against steroids before they'd discipline players for using them - despite the damn drugs being illegal.

This is (so far) looking like the process has teeth - in PR terms at least.

I reckon Commissioner Bud's going to be 'retiring on grounds of ill-health' soon.

Baby Fisk
03-17-2005, 12:05 PM
The play-by-play is greatly appreciated. You guys are awesome!

Jaffar
03-17-2005, 12:09 PM
Selig looked worried leaning over in that shot, almost uncomfortable.

daveeym
03-17-2005, 12:11 PM
WOW MLB getting Reamed.

Dr. Volkow testimony

-continuing the rage against the players and MLB

-Just giving the facts on steroids right now. (I'm not going to update the medical parts of this except for anything juice-y)

-sorry but dr. Nora Volkow is hispanic and she sorta sounds like a cheech and chong bit when she says marijuana.

SoxEd
03-17-2005, 12:12 PM
Mr. Hooten's testimony is going to be pretty hard to refute - he was passionate, and very moving - yet he remained calm and measured throughout.

He called out MLB for burying their heads in the sand, and said words to the effect of 'this goes way beyond a CBA now - we're talking about the health of our children'.

How can MLB not take action now?

spawn
03-17-2005, 12:12 PM
So far, this doesn't seem like a witch hunt, although the players have yet to testify. It seems to me like an intervention for the MLB. I think what's happening is a good thing.

Jaffar
03-17-2005, 12:15 PM
It definately is starting out by putting MLB and the Players association in a position where they have to do something more than what they have so far.

SoxEd
03-17-2005, 12:15 PM
Heck yes, this is a good thing - it looks like it will actually force the cheaters out, and that can only be a very positive thing for kids all over the baseball-playing world.

spawn
03-17-2005, 12:17 PM
It will be interesting to see how many players openly admit to have used. For some reason, I don't see McGwire or Sosa being very forthcoming, assuming they did use.

daveeym
03-17-2005, 12:18 PM
Dr. Gary I. Wadler

Associate Professor of Clinical Medicine, NYU School of Medicine, representing the World Anti-Doping Agency

Again won't post anything unless it's good.

-touching on 98 and mac on andro as the focal point.

-nailing MLB for crappy testing saying it WOULD be higher if tested randomly and unannounced.

-Players ARE role models - increase in andro sales after mac indicates this.

spawn
03-17-2005, 12:19 PM
Ok, time to get my steroid free workout on. This is more intriguing right now than the tourney!

daveeym
03-17-2005, 12:26 PM
Dr. Kirk Brower

Assoc. Professor of Psychiatry, University of Michigan Medical School Testifying on pychiatric effects.

-Suicide 3rd leading killer of teens. Steroids increase the risk in an age group already susceptible to it.

Baby Fisk
03-17-2005, 12:27 PM
Is it likely that players will testify today?

daveeym
03-17-2005, 12:30 PM
Is it likely that players will testify today? Hell yes. They're flying through the Drs. No questions just teaching. Canseco's next up. Probably will be a break after the doc's though.

Mickster
03-17-2005, 12:32 PM
Heck yes, this is a good thing - it looks like it will actually force the cheaters out, and that can only be a very positive thing for kids all over the baseball-playing world.

SoxEd, what is the anti-drug policy currently in effect in soccer in europe?

daveeym
03-17-2005, 12:32 PM
Dr. Elliot Hellman - Medical advisor to MLB. I didn't see him on the lineup.

-3 medical perspectives relevant to a steroid policy and educational efforts by mlb will be his testimony.

-Agrees with all stated medical risks. Also creates an unfair and unbalanced working environment for MLB. Because of this steroids is like a contagious disease.

-OOOH as a supplement to their testing program an educational video is provided in english AND spanish.

-MLB is funding development of a urine test for human growth hormone.

SoxEd
03-17-2005, 12:35 PM
The MLB Doctor testifying now is trying to pass part of the blame for steroid usage on to your Govt for deregulating the supplements industry in the 90's.

He says that intentional cheating is hard to prove when the supplements are unregulated!

What a crock!

(OK, I know, he's just doing his job).

If they implemented the iOC teesting program, then the athlete is responsoible for knowwing what is in his supplements - i.e. there is no excuse for cheaters.

IMPLEMENT THE IOC TESTING RULES ALREADY!

SoxEd
03-17-2005, 12:37 PM
SoxEd, what is the anti-drug policy currently in effect in soccer in europe?

I'm pretty certain that FIFA (and UEFA) use the IOC rules.

E.g. Clarence Seedorf and Edgar Davidtz got bans and fines a few years ago for failing IIRC ephedrine tests, even though they said they'd accidentally taken the drug in supplements.

It's a Zero-tolerance system.

Hence Rio Ferdinand's 8 month ban, for 'forgetting' to take a random drugs test.

He missed most of the EPL season AND the World Cup.

And no-one has any sympathy.

Mickster
03-17-2005, 12:40 PM
I'm pretty certain that FIFA (and UEFA) use the IOC rules.

E.g. Clarence Seedorf and Edgar Davidtz got bans and fines a few years ago for failing IIRC ephedrine tests, even though they said they'd accidentally taken the drug in supplements.

It's a Zero-tolerance system.

Hence Rio Ferdinand's 8 month ban, for 'forgetting' to take a random drugs test.

He missed most of the EPL season AND the World Cup.

And no-one has any sympathy.

Glad to see that they've taken such a tough stance. We need something similar in MLB.

Risk
03-17-2005, 12:43 PM
Glad to see that they've taken such a tough stance. We need something similar in MLB.

I agree, but I think that they should have this kind of policy in all professional and NCAA sports.

Risk

daveeym
03-17-2005, 12:50 PM
Ok, just questiong the doctors here, I'm off to lunch and will continue play by play with Conseco.

I_Liked_Manuel
03-17-2005, 12:52 PM
is it possible the 2b they were talking about was jeff kent?

voodoochile
03-17-2005, 01:11 PM
The MLB Doctor testifying now is trying to pass part of the blame for steroid usage on to your Govt for deregulating the supplements industry in the 90's.

He says that intentional cheating is hard to prove when the supplements are unregulated!

What a crock!

(OK, I know, he's just doing his job).

If they implemented the iOC teesting program, then the athlete is responsoible for knowwing what is in his supplements - i.e. there is no excuse for cheaters.

IMPLEMENT THE IOC TESTING RULES ALREADY!

That is true in NFL also. Remember Jim Miller getting that 4 game suspension for taking a banned substance accidentally in a supplement he purchased?

SoxWillWin
03-17-2005, 01:13 PM
Is this guy trying to blame baseball for crystal meth addiction?????? SHEESH

voodoochile
03-17-2005, 01:17 PM
Dr. Elliot Hellman - Medical advisor to MLB. I didn't see him on the lineup.

-Agrees with all stated medical risks. Also creates an unfair and unbalanced working environment for MLB. Because of this steroids is like a contagious disease.



I think this is a fantastic point. It has gotten to the point where if you don't use the drugs, you fall behind the people who do. Can you imagine something similar happening in an office envioronment/

What if some drug had the actual ability to make people smarter and more alert (say Ephedrine - a common ingredient in those "smart drinks" a few years ago) and you found out that most of the people you were working with were using it. When those people started to get promoted and you were left behind, wouldn't the pressure start to get to you?

Now what if you found out your boss knew people were using and that everyone also thought the drug was dangerous to use regularly?

That is starting to get into "hostile working environment" territory.

SoxEd
03-17-2005, 01:19 PM
Isn't this Mr. Lantos from Cali just making a Party Political Statement, rather than asking a question?

[EDIT] Sorry, my mistake, he's just had a go at the MLB doctor, and is now getting down to asking questions.

daveeym
03-17-2005, 01:29 PM
Man this has been terrific. Can't wait for the players to get on.

Ol' No. 2
03-17-2005, 01:30 PM
So far, this doesn't seem like a witch hunt, although the players have yet to testify. It seems to me like an intervention for the MLB. I think what's happening is a good thing.That's a great analogy. An intervention. MLB and the players are so addicted to the status quo that they won't do what needs to be done. They need a swift kick in the ass to make them do it. If this provides the impetus to do what needs to be done, it will be the best possible outcome.

RichFitztightly
03-17-2005, 01:30 PM
If I were Canseco I'd watch out if I walked by Palmeiro, he might stiff arm him.
:)

then Palmeiro would call it a side effect of Viagra

Mickster
03-17-2005, 01:38 PM
Here is an excerpt from Shammee's opening statement:

Six past or present star players including Mark McGwire and Jose Canseco were subpoenaed to appear before the House Government Reform Committee (news (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/DailyNews/manual/ap/ap_on_sp_ba_ne/bbo_steroids/14606936/*http://news.search.yahoo.com/search/news?fr=news-storylinks&p=%22House%20Government%20Reform%20Committee%22&c=&n=20&yn=c&c=news&cs=nw) - web sites (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/DailyNews/manual/ap/ap_on_sp_ba_ne/bbo_steroids/14606936/*http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=web-storylinks&p=House%20Government%20Reform%20Committee)) later Thursday, and Sammy Sosa told the panel, "I am clean."

"Everything I have heard about steroids and human growth hormones is that they are very bad for you, even lethal," Sosa said in his prepared testimony. "I would never put anything dangerous like that in my body."

"To be clear," Sosa added, "I have never taken illegal performance-enhancing drugs. I have never injected myself or had anyone inject me with anything. "

Here is the LINK (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=531&e=1&u=/ap/20050317/ap_on_sp_ba_ne/bbo_steroids).

tebman
03-17-2005, 01:40 PM
then Palmeiro would call it a side effect of Viagra

:roflmao: Well put!

- tebman

Rocklive99
03-17-2005, 01:43 PM
ESPNEWS saying "Sosa will deny using steroids"

Wasn't there an incident where he was caught with a friend where steroids were in the car or something? If this happened I hope the committee is aware and they ask. I wonder if they will bring up cork also

shoota
03-17-2005, 01:45 PM
is it possible the 2b they were talking about was jeff kent?

I doubt that. Kent has been outspoken about wanting better testing and he was a teammate to Bonds, so he saw cheating first hand.

daveeym
03-17-2005, 01:45 PM
Here is an excerpt from Shammee's opening statement:



Here is the LINK (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=531&e=1&u=/ap/20050317/ap_on_sp_ba_ne/bbo_steroids). *** is this, they make it sound like he already testified. Something fishy with this. Anyone else got a link to a prepared statement from sosa?

NSSoxFan
03-17-2005, 01:45 PM
ESPNEWS saying "Sosa will deny using steroids"

Wasn't there an incident where he was caught with a friend where steroids were in the car or something? If this happened I hope the committee is aware and they ask. I wonder if they will bring up cork also

I hope they find Sham-me's supplier and charge him with lying under oath.

Yes, Manny Alexander(Sham-me's friend) was pulled over and the cops found a stash of steroids and needles.

shoota
03-17-2005, 01:45 PM
Here is an excerpt from Shammee's opening statement:



Here is the LINK (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=531&e=1&u=/ap/20050317/ap_on_sp_ba_ne/bbo_steroids).

Wait, did players already take the stand to testify? I was hoping to see them testify live. ?

NSSoxFan
03-17-2005, 01:46 PM
Frank Thomas and Curt Schilling are on a task force now!!!

Rocklive99
03-17-2005, 01:46 PM
Frank Thomas and Schilling are there to be put in a committee against steroids if I heard right?

gosox41
03-17-2005, 01:47 PM
Frank Thomas and Schilling are there to be put in a committee against steroids if I heard right?

YOu heard it right. It's great news. None of this 'guilt by association' stuff going on.


Bob

Mickster
03-17-2005, 01:48 PM
*** is this, they make it sound like he already testified. Something fishy with this. Anyone else got a link to a prepared statement from sosa?

Yep. They certinlyt make it sound like he's already said it. it is just his prepared opening statement that he will read when he's called to testify.

gosox41
03-17-2005, 01:48 PM
[QUOTE=Mickster]Here is an excerpt from Shammee's opening statement:



Here is the LINK (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=531&e=1&u=/ap/20050317/ap_on_sp_ba_ne/bbo_steroids).[/QUOTE



Does anyone believe Sosa's stmt?

What a joke. Maybe he never 'injected' himself but he got him in his body by some other method.


Bob

Rocklive99
03-17-2005, 01:49 PM
*** is this, they make it sound like he already testified. Something fishy with this. Anyone else got a link to a prepared statement from sosa?

I don't get how they release the opening statements either, but yesterday ESPN showed Frank's opening statement, so I guess it's normal

tebman
03-17-2005, 01:50 PM
re: Frank and Schilling to be on get-rid-of-steroids committee:YOu heard it right. It's great news. None of this 'guilt by association' stuff going on.

Bob

I hadn't heard this. Is there a link?

- tebman

daveeym
03-17-2005, 01:53 PM
I don't think sosa is pulling a clinton. All this was just said on espn radio so no links yet folks. I hope they have a trump card on Sosa that they can pull out if he says no. FBI video of him sticking a syringe in his or something.

Iwritecode
03-17-2005, 01:53 PM
Does anyone believe Sosa's stmt?

What a joke. Maybe he never 'injected' himself but he got him in his body by some other method.

Pills. AKA flintstone vitamins

NSSoxFan
03-17-2005, 01:53 PM
Pills. AKA flintstone vitamins

ROTFLMAO

duke of dorwood
03-17-2005, 02:01 PM
[QUOTE=Mickster]Here is an excerpt from Shammee's opening statement:



Here is the LINK (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=531&e=1&u=/ap/20050317/ap_on_sp_ba_ne/bbo_steroids).[/QUOTE



Does anyone believe Sosa's stmt?

What a joke. Maybe he never 'injected' himself but he got him in his body by some other method.


Bob

Maybe he got "Jesus Juice" from Michael Jackson

Rocklive99
03-17-2005, 02:04 PM
re: Frank and Schilling to be on get-rid-of-steroids committee:

I hadn't heard this. Is there a link?

- tebman

ESPNEWS was reporting it, I guess they will reveal it during this next panel

daveeym
03-17-2005, 02:04 PM
[QUOTE=gosox41]

Maybe he got "Jesus Juice" from Michael Jackson Ok your sig has intrigued me for a year who are the chicks in the middle and the right, on the left is Edie i believe.

Rocklive99
03-17-2005, 02:07 PM
Interesting panel. 5 min break, and then the player panel

cheeses_h_rice
03-17-2005, 02:08 PM
Sosa's statement sounds very, very carefully parsed. I hope he gets some return volleys tossed his way by the Committee.

:nandrolone

...gulp.

PaleHoseGeorge
03-17-2005, 02:09 PM
Sosa's statement sounds very, very carefully parsed. I hope he gets some return volleys tossed his way by the Committee.

:nandrolone

...gulp.

If that dope takes the Fifth after issuing a statement like this... watch out!
:cool:

:tool
...gulp.

daveeym
03-17-2005, 02:10 PM
Edit I've updated my web link and shouldn't be as far behind now.


-

Clement's beard
03-17-2005, 02:11 PM
What did Sosa say?

Jaffar
03-17-2005, 02:13 PM
What did Sosa say?

He said he never took any "illegal" drugs.

Clement's beard
03-17-2005, 02:14 PM
He said he never took any "illegal" drugs.

Could you IMAGINE if they called manny Alexander to the stand and asked him if Sosa ever took anything:o:

cheeses_h_rice
03-17-2005, 02:14 PM
What did Sosa say?

He hasn't testified yet. The text of his statement, though, was released.

It sounds like a bunch of b.s. to me, and potential perjury-worthy.

tebman
03-17-2005, 02:15 PM
:tomatoaward

...in a true public-service thread.

- tebman

Jaffar
03-17-2005, 02:16 PM
Here is what was written....

Sammy Sosa told the panel, "I am clean."

"Everything I have heard about steroids and human growth hormones is that they are very bad for you, even lethal," Sosa said in his prepared testimony. "I would never put anything dangerous like that in my body."



"To be clear," Sosa added, "I have never taken illegal performance-enhancing drugs. I have never injected myself or had anyone inject me with anything. "

Baby Fisk
03-17-2005, 02:20 PM
"Throughout its career, this tomato has not used steroids. Ever." :thumbsup:



:tomatoaward

...in a true public-service thread.

- tebman

cheeses_h_rice
03-17-2005, 02:22 PM
Sammy Sosa told the panel, "I am clean."

"Everything I have heard about steroids and human growth hormones is that they are very bad for you, even lethal," Sosa said in his prepared testimony. "I would never put anything dangerous like that in my body."

:nandrolone

...You'll notice I didn't say anything about letting someone else put dangerous substances into my body.

"To be clear," Sosa added, "I have never taken illegal performance-enhancing drugs. I have never injected myself or had anyone inject me with anything"

:nandrolone

You see, the 'roids and HGH that were administered to me were not illegal in the Dominican Republic, which is where I took them, and since my helper was feeding me orally and/or rubbing these substances on my body, I can accurately say they weren't injected. Clever, eh?

Clement's beard
03-17-2005, 02:22 PM
http://www.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_110129.jpg








"Sammy was unaware of what I had in my car"




Mod edit: Find a much, much smaller picture.




"How did you want that hush money, Manny"?

daveeym
03-17-2005, 02:23 PM
Ok announcing Schilling and Thomas Co-chairing the task force.

Frater Perdurabo
03-17-2005, 02:25 PM
Henry Waxman making it perfecly clear that Frank is "an outspoken critic" of steroids!

:supernana:

Jaffar
03-17-2005, 02:26 PM
I love how Frank comes out and says I have never used STERIODS in my career and Shammy dances around the word with Performance enhancing drugs. Is there any "proof" steriods enhance performance?

spawn
03-17-2005, 02:26 PM
Ok announcing Schilling and Thomas Co-chairing the task force.
Are they explaining what this 'task force' is to accomplish?

spawn
03-17-2005, 02:27 PM
Henry Waxman making it perfecly clear that Frank is "an outspoken critic" of steroids!


Beautiful...

Clement's beard
03-17-2005, 02:28 PM
http://www.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_110129.jpg"Sammy was unaware of what was in my Car".


http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40896000/jpg/_40896681_sammy203_270.jpg"How did you want that hush money, Manny"?

daveeym
03-17-2005, 02:28 PM
Fresh Fish, Fresh Fish, Fresh Fish, here fishy fishy fishy, LET'S GO FISHING BOYS.

Frater Perdurabo
03-17-2005, 02:29 PM
Sosa with his "interpreter?"

daveeym
03-17-2005, 02:32 PM
JOSE CANSECO

Opening statement

-Heart goes out to families that lost their sons and wants to convey to youth that they are harmful.

voodoochile
03-17-2005, 02:45 PM
ShamME* says:
"Everything I have heard about steroids and human growth hormones is that they are very bad for you, even lethal," Sosa said in his prepared testimony. "I would never put anything dangerous like that in my body."

"To be clear," Sosa added, "I have never taken illegal performance-enhancing drugs. I have never injected myself or had anyone inject me with anything. "

Let's break this statement down...

1) He would never put anything dangerous like that IN his body. Aren't the clear and the cream applied to the skin? You wouldn't eat it, inject it or use a supposatory to take it, so you wouldn't put it IN your body.

2) He has never used anything LIKE that, but he didn't deny using THAT itself.

3) What if the performance enhancers aren't illegal? HGH hasn't been banned yet, has it? Maybe he is taking some new designer steroid that no one has banned yet.

4) No need to inject - see #1

I guess it depends on what the meaning of "is" is...

patbooyah
03-17-2005, 02:48 PM
i like frank thomas so much right now. he and schilling are amazing guys. the rest of them are such crazy liars!

gf2020
03-17-2005, 02:50 PM
Frank Thomas wearing a white hat? "Pillar of the baseball community?"

Call I get a hell yeah?

duke of dorwood
03-17-2005, 02:50 PM
I hate that Sosa so much-even more now.


And get the academy awards ready for the rest-its so sad to hear Palmeiro's struggles against communism. This is like the home run derby-of BS

patbooyah
03-17-2005, 02:51 PM
lets get the chat room pumping!

daveeym
03-17-2005, 02:52 PM
Ok, looks like we had a site malfunction -

Statements

Canseco - gonna take the 5th

Sosa - I didn't do it, heart goes out ot the families.

McGwire on the verge of tears during his entire statement - Taking the 5th.

Palmerio - I didn't do it - wants to join frank and schil on panel

Schilling just giving a bunch of mumbo jumbo.
Schilling actually sounds like he's defending MLB.

Ol' No. 2
03-17-2005, 02:54 PM
Ok, looks like we had a site malfunction -

Statements

Canseco - gonna take the 5th

Sosa - I didn't do it, heart goes out ot the families.

McGwire on the verge of tears during his entire statement - Taking the 5th.

Palmerio - I didn't do it - wants to join frank and schil on panel

Schilling just giving a bunch of mumbo jumbo.Just tuning in. Did I miss Frank? Hope not.

Edit: Never mind. How's that for timing?

Frater Perdurabo
03-17-2005, 02:54 PM
Everyone click "chat" and join in....a few of us are there already

PaleHoseGeorge
03-17-2005, 02:55 PM
Schilling just giving a bunch of mumbo jumbo.
Schilling actually sounds like he's defending MLB.

Here's a synopsis of Schilling's statement...

:violin:

If I was Donald Fehr, I would be worried about my job. Schilling is definitely angling for it down the road.

daveeym
03-17-2005, 02:56 PM
Thomas on now - reading his statement that's already been published.

20 min break.

cheeses_h_rice
03-17-2005, 02:56 PM
Did Sosa just read that statement?

Frater Perdurabo
03-17-2005, 02:57 PM
Did Sosa just read that statement?

No, his "interpreter" did

NonetheLoaiza
03-17-2005, 02:58 PM
For the record...I'm proud of Frank and nothing makes me prouder to be a White Sox fan than to have that man represent my favorite team.

Rocky Soprano
03-17-2005, 02:59 PM
For the record...I'm proud of Frank and nothing makes me prouder to be a White Sox fan than to have that man represent my favorite team.

AMEN!

This is for you Frank! :gulp:

cheeses_h_rice
03-17-2005, 03:00 PM
No, his "interpreter" did

So if his interpreter didn't tell the truth, Sham-ME* could say that *he* didn't perjure himself.

Right?

Frater Perdurabo
03-17-2005, 03:02 PM
So if his interpreter didn't tell the truth, Sham-ME* could say that *he* didn't perjure himself.

Right?

I didn't think of that, but you may be right. Very clever.

mdep524
03-17-2005, 03:07 PM
So if his interpreter didn't tell the truth, Sham-ME* could say that *he* didn't perjure himself.

Right?That's the first thing I thought of also. So transparent. :rolleyes:

Ol' No. 2
03-17-2005, 03:10 PM
So if his interpreter didn't tell the truth, Sham-ME* could say that *he* didn't perjure himself.

Right?No. Actually it was his lawyer that read it. It carries the same weight as if he said it himself.

Frater Perdurabo
03-17-2005, 03:11 PM
No. Actually it was his lawyer that read it. It carries the same weight as if he said it himself.

Then why was he introduced as an "interpreter?"

Ol' No. 2
03-17-2005, 03:11 PM
Then why was he introduced as an "interpreter?"He has an interpreter, too. The lady on his left.

daveeym
03-17-2005, 03:12 PM
Then why was he introduced as an "interpreter?" The lawyer read it, he also has an interpreter there in case she's needed. Sosa also required a bowl of m&m's with no green ones in his prep room for his entourage or he wasn't going to attend.

Ol' No. 2
03-17-2005, 03:14 PM
The lawyer read it, he also has an interpreter there in case she's needed. Sosa also required a bowl of m&m's with no green ones in his prep room for his entourage or he wasn't going to attend.:rolling: No "greenies"??? How's he going to get through the day?

cheeses_h_rice
03-17-2005, 03:14 PM
The lawyer read it, he also has an interpreter there in case she's needed. Sosa also required a bowl of m&m's with no green ones in his prep room for his entourage or he wasn't going to attend.

:Rocker:

daveeym
03-17-2005, 03:15 PM
:rolling: No "greenies"??? How's he going to get through the day? Yes, I'm so clean I no allow greenies in my candy.

gosox41
03-17-2005, 03:15 PM
re: Frank and Schilling to be on get-rid-of-steroids committee:

I hadn't heard this. Is there a link?

- tebman

No link that I know of. It was mentioned by ESPN first and then mentioned during the hearings.


Bob

daveeym
03-17-2005, 03:18 PM
Anyone else a little pissed and dissapointed in the committee statement that they were trying to get immunity for these guys but didn't have the time????? I'm pissed because Mac probably would have admitted to it.

gosox41
03-17-2005, 03:19 PM
Ok, looks like we had a site malfunction -

Statements

Canseco - gonna take the 5th

Sosa - I didn't do it, heart goes out ot the families.

McGwire on the verge of tears during his entire statement - Taking the 5th.

Palmerio - I didn't do it - wants to join frank and schil on panel

Schilling just giving a bunch of mumbo jumbo.
Schilling actually sounds like he's defending MLB.

Why was McGwire crying so much. If he's done nothing wrong, it seems a little odd that he'd be so upset about the loss of the 2 teenagers that died. It's tragic and I feel bad for the families, but I certainly didn't cry. did anyone else?

Or maybe it's because Big Mac is finally seeing the error of his ways and that like it or not his actions influence younger people. Overall I think McGwire is a good person with his child abuse foundaion. But that doesn't mean he's not a cheat.



Bob

Frater Perdurabo
03-17-2005, 03:20 PM
He has an interpreter, too. The lady on his left.

Even better for Sosa. If he gets a particularly probing question, then he answers by whispering to his interpreter in her ear, then she whispers it to the lawyer.

JKryl
03-17-2005, 03:20 PM
:rolling: No "greenies"??? How's he going to get through the day?

And, here I thought he'd refuse the Cubbie blue ones.

gosox41
03-17-2005, 03:21 PM
No. Actually it was his lawyer that read it. It carries the same weight as if he said it himself.


What if Sammy's lawyer used steroids???:D: :D:


Bob

spawn
03-17-2005, 03:24 PM
I'm guessing Mac took the fifth because he either used, or saw someone using. I believe it's the former. I can't watch the proceedings becasue I'm at work, but if he was crying that much, I believe it's because he was a hero to one of the kids that killed himself, and he probably feels guilty. I like McGwire. I think he is a good person. But to take the chickens*** way out by pleading the fifth is bs. Here was a chance to do the right thing, to do something positive, to take responsibilty, and he throws it away. And that's a shame.

JKryl
03-17-2005, 03:24 PM
I hope these guys have been informed about what the penalties for perjury are. Look what it did to Martha Stewart. All the FBI has to do is find a couple of witnesses, and look out!

Foulke You
03-17-2005, 03:26 PM
Donald Hooten is really laying into MLB right now. Players, Owners, everything.

(EDIT- My bad, this was from earlier...Cspan isn't showing the live feed anymore)

Frater Perdurabo
03-17-2005, 03:28 PM
Donald Hooten is really laying into MLB right now. Players, Owners, everything.

(EDIT- My bad, this was from earlier...Cspan isn't showing the live feed anymore)

They stopped the live feed because the reps went to vote on a bill on the House floor - I imagine they will return to the live feed when it gets going again

Frater Perdurabo
03-17-2005, 03:29 PM
Its live again now

maurice
03-17-2005, 03:33 PM
I guess it depends on what the meaning of "is" is...

My feelings exactly.

The statement was very carefully phrased by a lawyer and even read by a person other than Sosa to ensure that the words came out exactly as they were written. The statement denied certain very specific things. This type of specificity normally is intended to carve out other very specific things. For example, the statement very carefully pointed out that Sosa didn't violate the laws of the U.S. or the D.R. This does not exclude the possibility that he used drugs that were illegal in the U.S. during the offseason when he was in the D.R.

Palehose13
03-17-2005, 03:33 PM
I missed everything...so what did I miss?

*edit: specifically...what was Frank and Scammy asked and how did they respond?

SABRSox
03-17-2005, 03:34 PM
I'm guessing Mac took the fifth because he either used, or saw someone using. I believe it's the former. I can't watch the proceedings becasue I'm at work, but if he was crying that much, I believe it's because he was a hero to one of the kids that killed himself, and he probably feels guilty. I like McGwire. I think he is a good person. But to take the chickens*** way out by pleading the fifth is bs. Here was a chance to do the right thing, to do something positive, to take responsibilty, and he throws it away. And that's a shame.

I don't understand how taking the fifth is chicken****. Sure, we all want the truth, but it's his right to protect himself from self-incrimination. I'm not interested in who took what, to be honest. I think the important thing is to a) send a message to kids not to take steroids and b) send a message to Bud Selig, Donald Fehr, etc. It's good to see Bud has been there listening, especially to the doctors and parents. Now, will he actually do something, I'm not sure. We'll see when he starts talking...

maurice
03-17-2005, 03:37 PM
Assuming that Mac is taking the Fifth, his speech was a total BS smokescreen. The fact that he might incriminate somebody else who used steroids does not entitle him to take the Fifth.

Frater Perdurabo
03-17-2005, 03:37 PM
They are re-playing the opening statements now. The reps had to recess to vote on the $2.6 Trillion federal budget bill.

Frater Perdurabo
03-17-2005, 03:38 PM
Palehose - All they did was read their opening statements. But Sammy's lawyer read his opening statement for him. He also has an interpreter on hand.

Rocklive99
03-17-2005, 03:38 PM
Like I said in that chat, I wish they would have done this yesterday!!!! I am too interested to look away but this is really ruining my March Madness experience :redface:

spawn
03-17-2005, 03:39 PM
I don't understand how taking the fifth is chicken****. Sure, we all want the truth, but it's his right to protect himself from self-incrimination. I'm not interested in who took what, to be honest. I think the important thing is to a) send a message to kids not to take steroids and b) send a message to Bud Selig, Donald Fehr, etc. It's good to see Bud has been there listening, especially to the doctors and parents. Now, will he actually do something, I'm not sure. We'll see when he starts talking...
I didn't see Frank take the fifth. Why? because he has no fear of self-incrimination. The man is out of the game now. If he doesn't want to name names, that's fine. I don't care. But he himself made no statement denying steroid use. All he's done is left himself open to speculation. He has done nothing to clear his name. That's chickens*** to me.

Frater Perdurabo
03-17-2005, 03:40 PM
For those who don't have cable but do have high-speed internet, you can go to http://www.cspan.org and then choose C-SPAN 3 to view the hearings.

Palehose13
03-17-2005, 03:42 PM
Palehose - All they did was read their opening statements. But Sammy's lawyer read his opening statement for him. He also has an interpreter on hand.

Thanks. So am I assuming correctly that they are going to get questioned shortly?

daveeym
03-17-2005, 03:44 PM
Thanks. So am I assuming correctly that they are going to get questioned shortly?yes. And it'll be some short questioning, with two possible liars and two taking the fifth.

spawn
03-17-2005, 03:44 PM
Thanks. So am I assuming correctly that they are going to get questioned shortly?
I hope so. All of this build up and no questioning would suck!

SABRSox
03-17-2005, 03:44 PM
I didn't see Frank take the fifth. Why? because he has no fear of self-incrimination. The man is out of the game now. If he doesn't want to name names, that's fine. I don't care. But he himself made no statement denying steroid use. All he's done is left himself open to speculation. He has done nothing to clear his name. That's chickens*** to me.

If you listen to what McGwire said, he makes no difference between making an admission or denial and naming names. He made a blanket statement about not naming any names in any capacity, which protects him under the law from self-incrimination. I don't see that as an admission of guilt. Suspicion, speculation, yes he's absolutely open to that. But then again, he has been since Canseco's book, since BALCO, since 1998, etc. What changes by him taking the fifth? Nothing. I don't see a problem in him taking the fifth, and I fully expected him to do so.

Frater Perdurabo
03-17-2005, 03:45 PM
Thanks. So am I assuming correctly that they are going to get questioned shortly?

I hope so, but the reps had to leave to go vote on the $2.6 Trillion federal budget bill.

cheeses_h_rice
03-17-2005, 03:49 PM
Rick Telander is on the Score now, live from the hearings, and he said that it's possible that the delay could mean that they're hammering out an immunity deal for Canseco.

daveeym
03-17-2005, 03:50 PM
Rick Telander is on the Score now, live from the hearings, and he said that it's possible that the delay could mean that they're hammering out an immunity deal for Canseco. I hope so. I was thinking the same thing. Hopefully they throw one to Mac so he'll at least admit he used. Maybe they got sosa and palmerio in another room showing them some intersting "data" they have.

Flight #24
03-17-2005, 03:52 PM
If you listen to what McGwire said, he makes no difference between making an admission or denial and naming names. He made a blanket statement about not naming any names in any capacity, which protects him under the law from self-incrimination. I don't see that as an admission of guilt. Suspicion, speculation, yes he's absolutely open to that. But then again, he has been since Canseco's book, since BALCO, since 1998, etc. What changes by him taking the fifth? Nothing. I don't see a problem in him taking the fifth, and I fully expected him to do so.

Yes, but the glaring ommission where he didn't deny usage while most others on the panel have (however they qualified their statements) will make him look even more guilty in the court of public opinion.

SABRSox
03-17-2005, 03:54 PM
Rick Telander is on the Score now, live from the hearings, and he said that it's possible that the delay could mean that they're hammering out an immunity deal for Canseco.

I doubt this. The ESPN law analyst was saying that immunity would be near impossible since Canseco requires immunity in the state of Florida and not on a federal level. Also, the House is voting on the 2006 budget. When are they going to have the time to vote on that and also deal for immunity?

maurice
03-17-2005, 03:55 PM
Rick Telander is on the Score now, live from the hearings, and he said that it's possible that the delay could mean that they're hammering out an immunity deal for Canseco.

The chairman said the delay was occassioned by three pending House votes. The members were supposed to go vote and then come back to question the players.

- - -

On an unrelated note, I'd have to read the transcript, but it seemed to me that at least some of Sosa's statement was framed in terms of the present and future. For example, IIRC, the statement included remarks like "I would never" take dangerous substances and "I am clean," as opposed to "I have never done that" and "I have been clean for my whole career."

Early media reports seem to indicate that the media surprisingly missed the careful distinctions discussed in this thread and simply reported that Sosa, like Palmero and Thomas, simply denied all steroid use.

Frater Perdurabo
03-17-2005, 03:57 PM
On an unrelated note, I'd have to read the transcript, but it seemed to me that at least some of Sosa's statement was framed in terms of the present and future. For example, IIRC, the statement included remarks like "I would never" take dangerous substances and "I am clean," as opposed to "I have never done that" and "I have been clean for my whole career."

You are exactly right; I noticed the same thing about Sosa's statement. I wonder what 1951 Campbell would say; I haven't seen him around here in a long time. (Maybe he's studying for the bar exam now.)

cheeses_h_rice
03-17-2005, 04:00 PM
On an unrelated note, I'd have to read the transcript, but it seemed to me that at least some of Sosa's statement was framed in terms of the present and future. For example, IIRC, the statement included remarks like "I would never" take dangerous substances and "I am clean," as opposed to "I have never done that" and "I have been clean for my whole career."

Early media reports seem to indicate that the media surprisingly missed the careful distinctions discussed in this thread and simply reported that Sosa, like Palmero and Thomas, simply denied all steroid use.

As I said upthread, Sosa's statement seems very carefully parsed. Voodoo also pointed out hidden meanings that would technically be true given the wording.

That said, I noticed Frank didn't deny using anything other than steroids. I'm disappointed, so far, that no follow-up questions have been asked, since there appear to be holes big enough to drive a Mack truck through in some of the prepared statements we've heard.

Flight #24
03-17-2005, 04:00 PM
You are exactly right; I noticed the same thing about Sosa's statement. I wonder what 1951 Campbell would say; I haven't seen him around here in a long time. (Maybe he's studying for the bar exam now.)

The quote I saw said "I have never used illegal performance enhancing drugs", which is pretty unequivocal.....except for the question of WHERE they'd be legal or illegal (i.e. back home in DR).

On a related note: If Sammy did indeed use them in DR, that wouldn't be subject to US laws. Thus if I remember my old Con Law correctly, since he wouldn't be subject to US prosecution for that, he can't take the 5th if asked about usage in DR. Anyone with greater knowledge of the law able to comment on that?

maurice
03-17-2005, 04:10 PM
IIRC, Sosa's statement went on to specify that by "illegal" he meant that he didn't violate the laws of the U.S. or the D.R. That's way more specific and narrow than saying that he never used any substance that is presently illegal in the U.S. or under current MLB rules.

Flight #24
03-17-2005, 04:13 PM
IIRC, Sosa's statement went on to specify that by "illegal" he meant that he didn't violate the laws of the U.S. or the D.R. That's way more specific and narrow than saying that he never used any substance that is presently illegal in the U.S. or under current MLB rules.

Anyone know what is or was illegal in the DR? I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the government of DR may not have been that concerned about spending time writing steroid bans into law. But I could be wrong.

daveeym
03-17-2005, 04:14 PM
Ok Questioning schilling on MLB steroid policy.

Asking Canseco if he thinks MLB knew.

-yes
-teams did background checks and believes they knew guys were on roids.


-Focusing on Palmerio right now about if players knew that others wear taking.

-Schilling now saying he grossly overstated how many were using....BOOOO.

-Sosa - I no Know that others were using.

daveeym
03-17-2005, 04:21 PM
These punks including schilling sound like they're lying their asses off.

daveeym
03-17-2005, 04:24 PM
This is a dam whitewash. I can't believe this.

thecell
03-17-2005, 04:27 PM
These punks including schilling sound like they're lying their asses off.

I agree. Plus they're not the smartest people, they're dumb asses.

And I've just realized that Schilling is a tool.

jkrohn
03-17-2005, 04:27 PM
This is almost worse than listening to political debates.

"I can only tell you I don't have much to tell you"

spawn
03-17-2005, 04:28 PM
Has the committee asked when and where did Schilling have his castration done?

Baby Fisk
03-17-2005, 04:30 PM
Has the committee asked when and where did Schilling have his castration done?

What happened to Schilling all of a sudden?

SluggersAway
03-17-2005, 04:30 PM
McGwire on Andro use: "I'm not here to talk about the past."

These guys are pathetic.

daveeym
03-17-2005, 04:30 PM
They're asking mcgwire pretty fair questions and he won't answer and then they're rushing the rep from continuing the questions. BS. Yes getting called out now.

Ol' No. 2
03-17-2005, 04:31 PM
Holy ****! Canseco sounds like the most honest one there.:o:

jdm2662
03-17-2005, 04:32 PM
Sounds like everyone's making complete asses of themselves, which shouldn't be surprised. I'm sure they all got together with the PA and they were told what to say.
________
Oxygen Vaporizer (http://www.vaporshop.com/oxygen-vaporizer.html)

PaleHoseGeorge
03-17-2005, 04:33 PM
Holy ****! Canseco sounds like the most honest one there.

He is.

:o: :o:

And the biggest liar? Schilling. McGwire a close second.

:o: :o: :o:

mealfred13
03-17-2005, 04:33 PM
McGuire is getting grilled pretty hard by every one of the speakers, in reference to whether or not he took steroids.

He won't say yes or no, but it's basically obvious that he has used.

Sosa again denied the use of steroids when asked to verify his opening statements. What a crock.

daveeym
03-17-2005, 04:33 PM
Whoever this cummings is I LIKE HIM.

SluggersAway
03-17-2005, 04:34 PM
Seems like the congressman have forgot about Frank, looks like video conferencing was a great idea.

spawn
03-17-2005, 04:34 PM
What happened to Schilling all of a sudden?

I guess there is a reason his last name is "Schilling"...punk.

shoota
03-17-2005, 04:34 PM
Who's the hottie behind candice miller?

Clement's beard
03-17-2005, 04:35 PM
He is.

:o: :o:

And the biggest liar? Schilling. McGwire a close second.

:o: :o: :o:

Not Sammy?

shoota
03-17-2005, 04:36 PM
They're asking mcgwire pretty fair questions and he won't answer and then they're rushing the rep from continuing the questions. BS. Yes getting called out now.

Get off his back. He's just trying to stay "positive."

PaleHoseGeorge
03-17-2005, 04:36 PM
Not Sammy?

Sammy is using his broken English to full effect. Even the congressmen can't understand what he is trying to say.

Flight #24
03-17-2005, 04:36 PM
paraphrasing Burton: "It's evident from this hearing that I can get a lot of good face time, so I'll recommend that we have many more of these".:angry:

Frater Perdurabo
03-17-2005, 04:37 PM
Join us in "steroid chat" in the chat room!

maurice
03-17-2005, 04:37 PM
Wow! This is really heating up . . .

Q: Should Congress legislate the Olympic standard for all sports leagues?
Sosa: "I can tell you, I donít have too much to tell you."
Mac: "I donít know. Iím a former player."
Schilling: "Thereís no question that would be the way to go."

- - -

Q: Mac, why did you decide to start taking Ando?
Mac: "Iím not here to talk about the past. Iím here to talk about the positive, not the negative."
Q: But it would help us to understand the problem.
Mac: "Iím not here to talk about the past."

- - -

Q: Other players denied ever taking steroids. Did you use steroids, Mac?
Mac: "Iím not here to talk about the past. Iím here to be positive."
Q: "Are you taking the Fifth?"
Mac doesnít answer. His lawyer chimes in, referring to his prepared statement and the congressman changes subject.

shoota
03-17-2005, 04:37 PM
Somone better start grilling Sosa soon.

Clement's beard
03-17-2005, 04:38 PM
Sosa is cracking me up:D:

Rocklive99
03-17-2005, 04:38 PM
Big Mac's stock going down quick!

daveeym
03-17-2005, 04:39 PM
I almost feel this is a frat initiation night, fake niceness etc. I'm waiting for the bomb to drop, however i don't think it's gonna happen.

spawn
03-17-2005, 04:40 PM
You know the Maris family is pretty disappointed at what Big Mac isn't answering to. I'm surprised LaRussa isn't serving as his lawyer.:rolleyes:

PaleHoseGeorge
03-17-2005, 04:40 PM
Wow! This is really heating up . . .

Q: Mac, why did you decide to start taking Ando?
Mac: "Iím not here to talk about the past. Iím here to talk about the positive, not the negative."
Q: But it would help us to understand the problem.
Mac: "Iím not here to talk about the past."

- - -

Q: Other players denied ever taking steroids. Did you use steroids, Mac?
Mac: "Iím not here to talk about the past. Iím here to be positive."
Q: "Are you taking the Fifth?"
Mac doesnít answer. His lawyer chimes in, referring to his prepared statement and the congressman changes subject.

Pretty obvious what is going on, isn't it? The players agreed to appear with no immunity in return that the panel would ask no questions where the need to cite the Fifth Amendment against self-incrimination be invoked.

It's a sham. That exchange with McGwire is the best example yet.

We need a grand jury to indict these bastards.
:mad:

Rocklive99
03-17-2005, 04:41 PM
So Frank is done for the day? Or did they just forget about him?

pinwheels3530
03-17-2005, 04:41 PM
Is Thomas still there via tele conference??

SoxFan76
03-17-2005, 04:41 PM
I swear, Sosa has no idea why he's there. lol

Frater Perdurabo
03-17-2005, 04:42 PM
Pretty obvious what is going on, isn't it? The players agreed to appear with no immunity in return that the panel would ask no questions where the need to cite the Fifth Amendment against self-incrimination be invoked.

It's a sham. That exchange with McGwire is the best example yet.

We need a grand jury to indict these bastards.
:mad:

I too smell a rat

Flight #24
03-17-2005, 04:43 PM
Wow! This is really heating up . . .

Q: Should Congress legislate the Olympic standard for all sports leagues?
Sosa: "I can tell you, I donít have too much to tell you."
Mac: "I donít know. Iím a former player."
Schilling: "Thereís no question that would be the way to go."

.

Wow, that last guy was pretty serious. Flat out: "Would you favor the Olympic standard or a dramatically tougher standard".

Schilling: "I'm in favor of letting the current system work".

Tool.

Baby Fisk
03-17-2005, 04:43 PM
All Natural and Steroid Free...

:tomatoaward :tomatoaward

shoota
03-17-2005, 04:44 PM
Contents edited for utter poor taste.

Don't do it again.

daveeym
03-17-2005, 04:45 PM
Souder laying into em about this not talk about the past bs.

Frater Perdurabo
03-17-2005, 04:45 PM
It looks like Selig has gotten his "quiet investigation"

Ol' No. 2
03-17-2005, 04:45 PM
Pretty obvious what is going on, isn't it? The players agreed to appear with no immunity in return that the panel would ask no questions where the need to cite the Fifth Amendment against self-incrimination be invoked.

It's a sham. That exchange with McGwire is the best example yet.

We need a grand jury to indict these bastards.
:mad:What a surprise.

Flight #24
03-17-2005, 04:46 PM
Man, when you get a group together and Canseco looks like the most upstanding, respectable, honest one........I think I need to go wash up.

And I refer only to the physical attendees since Frank wasn't there and since he really wasn't a part of these proceedings for all intents & purposes.

SoxFan76
03-17-2005, 04:46 PM
Actually, he did, but it was edited out.

You did not just say that, :o:

Clement's beard
03-17-2005, 04:46 PM
Pretty obvious what is going on, isn't it? The players agreed to appear with no immunity in return that the panel would ask no questions where the need to cite the Fifth Amendment against self-incrimination be invoked.

It's a sham. That exchange with McGwire is the best example yet.

We need a grand jury to indict these bastards.
:mad:


:shammy (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=15#)"Manny, this is too easy".

spawn
03-17-2005, 04:48 PM
From what i'm seeing here, it seems to me the man who helped bring baseball back is helping to bring it back down...

PaleHoseGeorge
03-17-2005, 04:49 PM
"Steroids are bad."
-- Mark McGwire

Are they unfair?
"That's not for me to determine."

My God... this has become a farce.

Frater Perdurabo
03-17-2005, 04:49 PM
The chairman just saved McGwire's butt. Clearly there is something going on.

Clement's beard
03-17-2005, 04:49 PM
:shammy (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=15#)

"I can tell you I don't have a lot to tell you":)

maurice
03-17-2005, 04:49 PM
Q: Please answer yes or no whether you favor the Olympic formula / stricter penalties?
Schilling: (Backtracking.) "I donít know." I havenít seen the Olympic standard. Let the current standard work.
Mac: "Iím a former player. Iím in favor of anything positive."
Sosa: "Mumble mumble yes mumble mumble."

- - -

Q: What about independent testing?
A: "Yes" -- across the board.
Q: If MLB doesnít clean up its own act after a reasonable period of time, should Congress legislate?
A: "Yes" -- across the board.

- - -

Q: Schilling, Iím disappointed that you donít see that the current program has holes that need to be fixed. You also said names should be public. Why havenít we heard any names yet?
A: BS BS BS.
Q: Has anybody been suspended?
A: I canít answer that.

- - -

Congressman: Saying that you donít want to talk about the past is BS. Thatís what congressional commissions do! How else are we supposed to pass legislation? Youíre a protected monopoly! Without talking about the past, "this isnít going to pass the laugh test."

- - -

Q: Does using steroid = cheating?
A: "Yes" -- across the board, except for Mac.
Mac: "That's not for me to determine."
Q: In your opinion, is it cheating?
A: "That's not for me to determine."
Q: "Have you seen the effects of steroids?"
Other congressman: House rules protect you against self-incrimination.
A: "My attorney's advice is not to comment on this issue."

daveeym
03-17-2005, 04:50 PM
Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Protecting F'n Maioadvcjk;asdf

SluggersAway
03-17-2005, 04:50 PM
"How do you know they are bad?"

McGwire: "My attorney has advised me not to answer."

Farce is right.

PaleHoseGeorge
03-17-2005, 04:52 PM
The chairman is bailing out McGwire *every* time.

He needs to be indicted, too.
:mad:

Foulke You
03-17-2005, 04:52 PM
I too am wondering why Frank isn't being asked questions. He must not be there anymore or they are having technical difficulties with his video feed.

Clement's beard
03-17-2005, 04:53 PM
:tool (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=15#)
"Don't look at me".

spawn
03-17-2005, 04:53 PM
Now I'm glad I'm not watching this crap. I might've put my foot through the television.:angry:

Baby Fisk
03-17-2005, 04:54 PM
So what will be the headlines coming out of today?

Clement's beard
03-17-2005, 04:54 PM
How bad of an attendance hit will MLB take with all of this?

daveeym
03-17-2005, 04:55 PM
I think they're dropping the hammer on these guys. George you may get your wish and they'll be indicted.

Ol' No. 2
03-17-2005, 04:55 PM
How bad of an attendance hit will MLB take with all of this?Unfortunately...none.

daveeym
03-17-2005, 04:55 PM
How bad of an attendance hit will MLB take with all of this? If they fessed up i don't think it would matter, anyone following this right now is might PISSED.

Ol' No. 2
03-17-2005, 04:56 PM
Boy, am I glad Frank Thomas is not a part of this.

Frater Perdurabo
03-17-2005, 04:57 PM
So what will be the headlines coming out of today?

Cubune = "Ex-Cubs cleared, call for tougher testing"

voodoochile
03-17-2005, 04:57 PM
He is.

:o: :o:

And the biggest liar? Schilling. McGwire a close second.

:o: :o: :o:

Anyone else get a huge kick out of watching Schilling weasel his way around the "more legislation if the house isn't clean" question? Of course he isn't going to rip on these guys. He's a player union rep. He wants a job running the union when he retires. If he takes too strong a stand, the owners won't want to deal with him and the players will never vote for him.

He's a politician as surely as any of the guys asking questions are.

Clement's beard
03-17-2005, 04:58 PM
If they fessed up i don't think it would matter, anyone following this right now is might PISSED.

When people see this on ESPN tonight, I'd say you could see people not showing up.

spawn
03-17-2005, 04:58 PM
:canseco

"The most effective thing right now is for us to admit there's a major problem ... From what I'm hearing I was the only individual in major league baseball to use steroids. That's hard to believe."

It's also hard to believe he's the only player who is making any sense.

Clement's beard
03-17-2005, 04:59 PM
He's a politician as surely as any of the guys asking questions are.

And what would you call Sosa? He's killing me up there.

daveeym
03-17-2005, 04:59 PM
Once again Sosa's second banana to Mac and following in his shadows. Sosa's a ****ing parrot sitting on Mac's shoulder.

Baby Fisk
03-17-2005, 05:00 PM
"The most effective thing right now is for us to admit there's a major problem ... From what I'm hearing I was the only individual in major league baseball to use steroids. That's hard to believe."

It's also hard to believe he's the only player who is making any sense.

Wow, just wow. :o:

Rocklive99
03-17-2005, 05:00 PM
This is weird. Canseco is the only one giving thoughout questions, he could've been stubborn and invoked the 5th on everything because of being sour about his immunity. Everyone else giving broad answers that don't lead to anything. Sosa isn't even making sense. When everyone agrees, he does too, and when it's time for him to form his own opinion he comes up with some mumbling fragment that makes no sense

voodoochile
03-17-2005, 05:02 PM
And what would you call Sosa? He's killing me up there.

Yeah, but ShamME* we expected it from. Schilling is supposed to be on the panel. He's supposed to be outspoken. He's supposed to be telling the truth.

Foulke You
03-17-2005, 05:03 PM
Selig's face and hand gestures behind Canseco's shoulder is cracking me up. Anyone else notice how fidgity he is? Perhaps Mr. Bud is feeling the pressure?

Ol' No. 2
03-17-2005, 05:04 PM
OMG. Canseco did it for his poor dead mother. :thud: