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balke
03-15-2005, 06:03 PM
I sporadically heard some of the broadcast today for the Sox v. Angels game. Mccarthy did stellar again and the team goes above .500 in ST.

After dogging Ozzie for the past day, I heard him on the postgame and he lit a match in my dark sox heart. Jerko and harry were asking about Demaso Marte, and Ozzie thinks he can get back to his old form again "I see a fire in his eyes". He said he will be going right after hitters, pitching inside and that he has that body language of confidence back.

Ozz opened up by saying he's not scared to put B-mac on the team this year, that he has the toughness of a Mcdowell, and the ability. He also says he is confident and pleased with Iguchi, and that he'll do well this season. He also said he's sticking by Crede for a while. He said Garland will do better this year because there are fewer expectations than last season.

Above all, Oz said that he has confidence that this is a better team with worse players coming into the season.

This gets me super pumped for the season. We possibly have some great things headed our way, and I think we can win the division officially. :bandance:

That's about it, just thought I'd share.

Oh yeah, Ozzie also mentioned that C-lee wasn't a cancer, he was a competitor, and wanted to stay here. We only lost him because we needed a lead-off hitter and a base stealer.

Buehrle
Garcia
Mccarthy
El Duque
Garland/Contreras

Man oh man we're looking good. And Everett's been hitting the ball like it stole something! Color me optimistic today!

Randar68
03-15-2005, 06:06 PM
And Everett's been hitting the ball like it stole something!

More like "it told him dinosaurs existed"...

NSSoxFan
03-15-2005, 06:08 PM
McCarthy has impressed me a ton this spring, but I still say give him a full year of AAA ball. I think it's a certainty that we will see him in September though.

Hangar18
03-15-2005, 06:45 PM
Im hearing BMac mowed down the Angels today and was sparkling.
Man ......... I think he makes the team as the 5th starter ......
Contreras to the pen in long relief

MRKARNO
03-15-2005, 06:47 PM
There's no way that he wins the 5th starter job unless Kenny Williams has a change of heart. We already have millions invested in Contreras so we're going to try to turn him around before we give up on him and put him in the bullpen. He'd probably make an awesome setup man though....(shudders at the thought of paying 6-8 million for a setup man).

balke
03-15-2005, 06:52 PM
I think we might see him. Contreras still doesn't look like he has control of his fastball. he'd be a huge liability. I really wish he could be as solid as he gets some games. El Duque could get injured, or someone may be better suited for the pen or a trade.

I was dreaming today. What if El Duque is just smoking for our team, and Mccarthy is the new young stud of the league? Just like 4 aces in our staff? Out of all these guys that COULD be unbelievable... at least one has to be right? I'm very optimistic today.

Ozzie also was asked in the interview about Torii Hunter's comments about Lee and Maggs being the only thing he feared when playing the sox. Ozzie said "good for him" and that this is a much different team this year. He made it sound like our pitchers might have something to say to the Twins this year for him running his mouth. I believe we will be much tougher this season, I love that.

TheBull19
03-15-2005, 06:58 PM
Buehrle
Garcia
Mccarthy
El Duque
Garland/Contreras


No way does Garland not make the rotation. If McCarthy makes the rotation, its at the expense of Contreras or due to injury.

OEO Magglio
03-15-2005, 06:58 PM
Im hearing BMac mowed down the Angels today and was sparkling.
Man ......... I think he makes the team as the 5th starter ......
Contreras to the pen in long relief
There's a 0 percent chance of that happening.

Ol' No. 2
03-15-2005, 07:01 PM
There's a 0 percent chance of that happening.I agree. Let's put the Kool-Aide down. He's had a grand total of 4 games at AA and 3 ST games. As good as he's looked, I'd hate to throw him in the deep water too soon. Give him 10+ starts in Birmingham. Chances are about 99% that someone is going to get hurt and they're going to need to bring up a replacement. That's the time to bring him in.

OEO Magglio
03-15-2005, 07:04 PM
I agree. Let's put the Kool-Aide down. He's had a grand total of 4 games at AA and 3 ST games. As good as he's looked, I'd hate to throw him in the deep water too soon. Give him 10+ starts in Birmingham. Chances are about 99% that someone is going to get hurt and they're going to need to bring up a replacement. That's the time to bring him in.
Bingo number 2. Don't get me wrong, I love bmac as much as anyone here but when you have 5 major league starters there is no reason to throw brandon into the mix. For the first time in a long time the sox have some starting pitching depth, as you said most likely someone is going to get hurt and if and when that happens I'm sure brandon will be the first one called up and get his opportunity. If Brandon comes out to the bigs and continues to impress that's when you look into your options, definitely a good problem to have.

balke
03-15-2005, 07:05 PM
I agree. Let's put the Kool-Aide down. He's had a grand total of 4 games at AA and 3 ST games. As good as he's looked, I'd hate to throw him in the deep water too soon. Give him 10+ starts in Birmingham. Chances are about 99% that someone is going to get hurt and they're going to need to bring up a replacement. That's the time to bring him in.

Fair enough. Its good to hear how much confidence everyone has in this guy. I also like that Ozzie seems more than ready to put him in if someone goes down. He said "I wish we had him last year" and went on and on with how ready he thinks he is to start in the majors. He said he wouldn't hesitate.

I'd hate to see him fail, but man he looks great. I can understand no rushing him so we don't have another Diaz.

Hangar18
03-15-2005, 07:22 PM
I agree. Let's put the Kool-Aide down. He's had a grand total of 4 games at AA and 3 ST games. As good as he's looked, I'd hate to throw him in the deep water too soon. Give him 10+ starts in Birmingham. Chances are about 99% that someone is going to get hurt and they're going to need to bring up a replacement. That's the time to bring him in.

Hmmmmmmmm, so you say Mid-season call up huh?
Thats not a bad idea, considering the way your response was handled,
esp knowing that somehow, this staff will not be 100% by June.
Well done Ole no. 2, this may be the best way to handle him.
But you have to admit, he keeps pitching like this, then carries that
into the minor-league season, there will be lots of "Call-him-up" threads
by time June comes around .........

lths06
03-15-2005, 07:41 PM
Where did we get MCCarthy from? Was it part of a trade?

chisox06
03-15-2005, 07:49 PM
Where did we get MCCarthy from? Was it part of a trade?

I beleive he was a later round draft pick around 2001-02.

spawn
03-15-2005, 08:01 PM
Im hearing BMac mowed down the Angels today and was sparkling.
Man ......... I think he makes the team as the 5th starter ......
Contreras to the pen in long relief
I think the Cubs have a better shot at winning the World Series than this happening. I think if Contreras falters, KW won't hesitate bringing BMac up. Although he hasn't shown much, I'm willing to give Contreras the benefit of the doubt. The guy has the talent. He just needs confidence in his abilities.

Soxzilla
03-15-2005, 08:04 PM
I foresee a July 31st Jose Contreras/Joe Crede trade for Adrian Beltre once the Mariners start the fire sale and we gear up for the playoffs and Brandon McCarthy has proven through spot starts he can pitch at the major league level.

....:o:

balke
03-15-2005, 08:16 PM
I foresee a July 31st Jose Contreras/Joe Crede trade for Adrian Beltre once the Mariners start the fire sale and we gear up for the playoffs and Brandon McCarthy has proven through spot starts he can pitch at the major league level.

....:o:

Beltre will have Crede-esque #'s by that time since this is not a contract year

I love Contreras' stuff. But this could easily be broken record year for him. I will never look down on his acquisition, because he has the potential to be an ace. But I just am not optimistic about him right now.

Banix12
03-15-2005, 08:27 PM
I'm not as down on Contreras as most people are, i'm more pragmatic about him. I know he's been struggling and he had a 5.50 ERA last season, but 2/3 of the games he plays in he gives the team a chance to win. It's just that other 1/3 of games where he puts the team in a hole, that stinks. But then again he's only going into his 3rd major league season.

Contreras' 19 positive appearances in 2004 (5+ innings, 4 ER or less) he had a ERA around 2.91

Contreras' 11 awful appearances in 2004 he had an ERA around 13.85

It's not that he's a bad pitcher, he's just Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde and it's hard to figure out whose gonna show up on any given day. Even with that it's not unfeasable that he can win 15-20 games and have an ERA well above 5, the trade off is there are probably going to be at least 10 games you know you won't win because your team is down by 10 by the third inning.

SoxFan76
03-15-2005, 08:43 PM
McCarthy 5th starter, Contreras to closer. Shingo/Damaso set him up. Yikes...

balke
03-15-2005, 08:46 PM
McCarthy 5th starter, Contreras to closer. Shingo/Damaso set him up. Yikes...

If Contreras has the stuff to close, he'd have the stuff to start. Garland is so good through 75 pitches he might be a great long reliever? I don't know, we'll see what happens when the real season starts.

I just responded cause of your sig, I'll take a ticket on the Crede train. I think he can do much better this season.

JB98
03-15-2005, 11:21 PM
If Contreras has the stuff to close, he'd have the stuff to start. Garland is so good through 75 pitches he might be a great long reliever? I don't know, we'll see what happens when the real season starts.

I just responded cause of your sig, I'll take a ticket on the Crede train. I think he can do much better this season.

I'm aboard the Crede train as well.

No way Contreras becomes closer. He's prone to fits of wildness, and one thing you can't have from a closer is walks and wild pitches (see Koch, Billy).

MRKARNO
03-16-2005, 12:25 AM
Out of the 5 runs the White Sox gave up today, only 1 was of the earned variety.

Irishsox1
03-16-2005, 12:36 AM
You can never have enough quality starting pitching. So, if someone gets hurt, McCarthy can fill the void. On the whole, this team has a nice mix of veteran and young pitchers. Hopefully they can stay away from the injury bug and that a lot of problems seen in spring training will be ironed out by mid April. It's a nice change to have too many starting pitchers.

elrod
03-16-2005, 01:09 AM
I'm not as down on Contreras as most people are, i'm more pragmatic about him. I know he's been struggling and he had a 5.50 ERA last season, but 2/3 of the games he plays in he gives the team a chance to win. It's just that other 1/3 of games where he puts the team in a hole, that stinks. But then again he's only going into his 3rd major league season.

Contreras' 19 positive appearances in 2004 (5+ innings, 4 ER or less) he had a ERA around 2.91

Contreras' 11 awful appearances in 2004 he had an ERA around 13.85

It's not that he's a bad pitcher, he's just Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde and it's hard to figure out whose gonna show up on any given day. Even with that it's not unfeasable that he can win 15-20 games and have an ERA well above 5, the trade off is there are probably going to be at least 10 games you know you won't win because your team is down by 10 by the third inning.

Excellent points. He tends to do very well against average to below average teams, and awful against good teams. Which makes him a perfect #5 starter, actually. He won't let you down when you play Tampa Bay or Kansas City, but if you have Boston, New York or Anaheim coming up you can shuffle the rotation and keep him out.

elrod
03-16-2005, 01:10 AM
BTW, remember who our starting staff was last year?

1. Buehrle
2. Loaiza
3. Garland
4. Schoeneweis
5. Wright

How did we stay in contention so long?

adidas773
03-16-2005, 01:11 AM
Very impressive by the young hurler, McCarthy has definitely opened some eyes in the baseball world. Two things that liked were his control and delivery. The only thing that bothered me was that he wasn't calm, he kept on rushing into pitches. Maybe that's his style of play but I think with a little more experience in Spring Training he will pick up the habit of being more patient.

Pablo Ozuna looks to be a good fit for the utility role, I also would of liked Burke as our backup catcher. I don't like the idea of paying $1 mil to a catcher thats only playing 40 games in a season. This whole idea of Contreras in the bullpen is way over your heads, as much as I believe McCarthy can do the job in the 5th spot he still needs more time to develop his pitches.

I'm new here, I come in peace. :D:

balke
03-16-2005, 01:14 AM
Game Summary on B-Mac (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050315&content_id=968440&vkey=spt2005news&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws)

Over 10 1/3 innings, McCarthy has allowed seven hits and struck out five. His ERA is the same 0.00 as it was when he threw his first pitch against Arizona. So, once again, the White Sox find themselves with a dilemma in the starting rotation.

There aren't enough spots to fit in McCarthy.

"He's the best pitcher in camp right now. There's no doubt about it," said White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen, who seems more amazed by McCarthy with each trip to the mound. "I wish I had this kid last year. I would have had one less headache.

"It's fun to watch this kid pitch. It's amazing that he's a baby and he does what he does. You won't see too many kids pitch at the big league level the way he does now."

I know at least 3 of those runs came in on errors by players that won't be making the team this season. Vizcaino loaded the bases, then struck out the side. It was a big game, against a team with a lot of talent.... Spring Training or not, there was a lot of good stuff out there today.

balke
03-16-2005, 01:22 AM
BTW, remember who our starting staff was last year?

1. Buehrle
2. Loaiza
3. Garland
4. Schoeneweis
5. Wright

How did we stay in contention so long?

We had the sickest lineup in the league, no teal. An above average Defense, and a nice surprise in the Closer role helped.

Uribe
Clee
Thomas
Maggs
Kon(g)erko
Valenstache
Rowand
Crede
Harris
Olivo

Memories.

dcb33
03-16-2005, 01:34 AM
BTW, remember who our starting staff was last year?

1. Buehrle
2. Loaiza
3. Garland
4. Schoeneweis
5. Wright

How did we stay in contention so long?

Schoeney got off to a really good start, and the 1-2 punch of Wille and Uribe was unstoppable the first couple months of the season. Then those guys remembered who they really were and came back down to Earth.


What's got me psyched is the sick amount of runs been putting up lately- since last Wednesday they've been averaging better than 7 runs a game. Hopefully this trend continues into the regular season.

Banix12
03-16-2005, 01:39 AM
Excellent points. He tends to do very well against average to below average teams, and awful against good teams. Which makes him a perfect #5 starter, actually. He won't let you down when you play Tampa Bay or Kansas City, but if you have Boston, New York or Anaheim coming up you can shuffle the rotation and keep him out.

I wish it were really as simple of him doing horrible against good teams. While he does usually wipe the floor with below average teams, he has done well against good teams as well. Certainly his odds of winning go down against a good team, but the same can be said of just about every pitcher in the league.

The three teams he did poorest against last year were Boston, Baltimore and Oakland. Losing big time to them each at least twice, however he did also go out and beat each of those teams at least once last season. He did the same thing with Texas, Detroit and the Mets last year. He'd wipe the floor with them one game and then be bounced by the second inning another.

Even though he is 33, Contreras is still basically an inexperienced major league pitcher. As respected as the Cuban national team is for developing talent, the Cuban national team is not the major leagues. Contreras basically only has a year and a half of Major league experience, making him the most inexperienced starter as far as major league experience we have in the rotation and the second most inexperienced pitcher on the projected 25 man roster behind Neil Cotts. Remember, Contreras is basically still learning the ins and outs of the league.

That said, he's in his third year now and should take a step forward this year.

Mickster
03-16-2005, 09:27 AM
I foresee a July 31st Jose Contreras/Joe Crede trade for Adrian Beltre once the Mariners start the fire sale and we gear up for the playoffs and Brandon McCarthy has proven through spot starts he can pitch at the major league level.

....:o:

I was actually thinking Garland and some combination of Harris/Adkins/Cotts...... for a good 3rd baseman as the trade deadline comes near should Crede continue on his current path. (notice no teal or deep pink)

Frater Perdurabo
03-16-2005, 09:56 AM
The only thing that bothered me was that he wasn't calm, he kept on rushing into pitches. Maybe that's his style of play but I think with a little more experience in Spring Training he will pick up the habit of being more patient.

Perhaps McCarthy's "rushing" indeed is his preferred style. If he's comfortable pitching that way, perhaps part of his success can be attributed to the fact that opposing hitters don't have the time to get comfortable in the box. I've often thought working quickly has helped Buehrle in a similar way (not to take anything away from his stuff). When a pitcher combines good stuff with great location, he can be good. Combined with smarts, he can be very good. Combine stuff, location and smarts with a psychological edge, and a pitcher can be an ace.

:supernana:

Ol' No. 2
03-16-2005, 10:31 AM
I wish it were really as simple of him doing horrible against good teams. While he does usually wipe the floor with below average teams, he has done well against good teams as well. Certainly his odds of winning go down against a good team, but the same can be said of just about every pitcher in the league.

The three teams he did poorest against last year were Boston, Baltimore and Oakland. Losing big time to them each at least twice, however he did also go out and beat each of those teams at least once last season. He did the same thing with Texas, Detroit and the Mets last year. He'd wipe the floor with them one game and then be bounced by the second inning another.

Even though he is 33, Contreras is still basically an inexperienced major league pitcher. As respected as the Cuban national team is for developing talent, the Cuban national team is not the major leagues. Contreras basically only has a year and a half of Major league experience, making him the most inexperienced starter as far as major league experience we have in the rotation and the second most inexperienced pitcher on the projected 25 man roster behind Neil Cotts. Remember, Contreras is basically still learning the ins and outs of the league.

That said, he's in his third year now and should take a step forward this year.People here talk about Contreras like he was Mike Jackson.:?: Actually, Contreras was 13-9 last year, which won't get you a Cy Young, but isn't that bad for a 3rd or 4th starter. And before you say it's just because he pitched half the year for the Yankees, his 5-4 in 13 starts for the Sox projects to just about 13 wins over 33 starts. Again, not sparkling, but not chopped liver, either.

In 2003 he was 7-2 with a 3.30 ERA, so he has shown he's capable. He just struggled a bit last year, and it was magnified in NY because his problems came against the Red Sox. Overall, I'd say the chances of his improving are better than the chances of his getting worse. If he wins 13-15 this year, I'll be satisfied.

Flight #24
03-16-2005, 10:42 AM
2 points on Contreras:

1) as noted, he's prone to extremes, either dominant or horrible. That makes using average stats a poor comparison because he's actually pretty much going to win his "on" games and lose his "off" games rather than making things difficult for his team to win every day out. As the #5, that's great(and statistically, Garland is a solid #4).

2) his problems are control, and an inability to buckle down with men on base. Both are kisses of death for relievers. If he can't make it as a starter, he sure as heck isn't someone I want to see coming in from the 'pen.

balke
03-16-2005, 11:23 AM
I was actually thinking Garland and some combination of Harris/Adkins/Cotts...... for a good 3rd baseman as the trade deadline comes near should Crede continue on his current path. (notice no teal or deep pink)

People don't seem to realize, when Frank comes back we'll have either him or Dye or Everett on the bench in pinch hitter roles. Which is unbelievable.

ThEn Harris may not be the bat we are looking for late in the game, but what he does have is speed, tons of it. He could score from 1st on a double. We have Josh Fields coming up for now. I don't know how good of a 3rd baseman we could get for those 3 major league starters anyhow. Plus, why dump Garland for now? He's not costing as much as our other pitchers. This might even be that breakout year we keep waiting for.

The mention of Bronson Arroyo earlier demonstrates not everyone is going to reach their potential at 25-26. We may have some surprises yet out of our team when the season starts.

Mickster
03-16-2005, 11:41 AM
People don't seem to realize, when Frank comes back we'll have either him or Dye or Everett on the bench in pinch hitter roles. Which is unbelievable.

ThEn Harris may not be the bat we are looking for late in the game, but what he does have is speed, tons of it. He could score from 1st on a double. We have Josh Fields coming up for now. I don't know how good of a 3rd baseman we could get for those 3 major league starters anyhow. Plus, why dump Garland for now? He's not costing as much as our other pitchers. This might even be that breakout year we keep waiting for.

The mention of Bronson Arroyo earlier demonstrates not everyone is going to reach their potential at 25-26. We may have some surprises yet out of our team when the season starts.

I realize that We'll have Frank, Dye and Everett and one of them will be on the bench. What does that have to do with a sub-par 3rd baseman?

You fail to realize that when Frank comes back, Willie will be the odd man out and will NOT have a spot on the 25 man roster as he can't back up 3rd or SS. We can't afford the spot on the bench for a speedster who can't steal bases and we'll have plenty of players who can back up our OF (Willie's only other position besides 2B).

If Crede or Garland finally have their breakout year then......

mdep524
03-16-2005, 11:44 AM
Plus, why dump Garland for now? He's not costing as much as our other pitchers. This might even be that breakout year we keep waiting for.

The mention of Bronson Arroyo earlier demonstrates not everyone is going to reach their potential at 25-26. We may have some surprises yet out of our team when the season starts.
If the rest of the league overvalues Contreras as much as some of the fans here (and KW as well, for making him the number 3 starter), I would trade Contreras instead of Garland in a heartbeat.

Ol' No. 2
03-16-2005, 11:45 AM
I realize that We'll have Frank, Dye and Everett and one of them will be on the bench. What does that have to do with a sub-par 3rd baseman?

You fail to realize that when Frank comes back, Willie will be the odd man out and will NOT have a spot on the 25 man roster as he can't back up 3rd or SS. We can't afford the spot on the bench for a speedster who can't steal bases and we'll have plenty of platers who can back up our OF (Willie's only other position besides 2B).

If Crede or Garland finally have their breakout year then......I don't get it. After the last few years of struggling with an incomplete rotation, the Sox FINALLY have a solid 5-man and people want to trade one of them away!:?::?::?::?:

Mickster
03-16-2005, 11:46 AM
If the rest of the league overvalues Contreras as much as some of the fans here (and KW as well, for making him the number 3 starter), I would trade Contreras instead of Garland in a heartbeat.

I think that we would have a hard time dealing Jose as no one would take him even at $6m. We'd have to eat some cash.

Mickster
03-16-2005, 11:48 AM
I don't get it. After the last few years of struggling with an incomplete rotation, the Sox FINALLY have a solid 5-man and people want to trade one of them away!:?::?::?::?:

All of this speculation was in regards to BMac coming up at some point later in the year. I certainly would not want to make any moves unless he's called up at some point to fill-in for an injured SP and he sticks on the 25 man for good.

Ol' No. 2
03-16-2005, 11:57 AM
All of this speculation was in regards to BMac coming up at some point later in the year. I certainly would not want to make any moves unless he's called up at some point to fill-in for an injured SP and he sticks on the 25 man for good.But if McCarthy comes up to fill in for someone who's injured, you still have only 5 healthy starters. Even if the injured pitcher gets healthy again, I like having McCarthy in reserve. You just can't have too much good pitching. If someone needs to be replaced, pitching is not what I'd want to trade away to do it.

Mickster
03-16-2005, 11:58 AM
But if McCarthy comes up to fill in for someone who's injured, you still have only 5 healthy starters. Even if the injured pitcher gets healthy again, I like having McCarthy in reserve. You just can't have too much good pitching. If someone needs to be replaced, pitching is not what I'd want to trade away to do it.

Point taken but...would Jose or Garland accept a spot in the pen? Would Garland sulk like Schoe did?

Randar68
03-16-2005, 12:11 PM
Where did we get MCCarthy from? Was it part of a trade?

Was a 17th round selection in the 2002 draft after being discovered by Joe Butler and John Kazanas at Lamar Junior College in Colorado.

Ol' No. 2
03-16-2005, 12:16 PM
Point taken but...would Jose or Garland accept a spot in the pen? Would Garland sulk like Schoe did?This is all pretty hypothetical. The one thing that always seems to be true is that whatever you're most worried about going wrong never does. It's always something else. Crede will probably hit .290 and someone else will suck...or get hurt...or something unforseen. What were the big worries at the start of last year? Who's going to close and will Aaron Rowand finally get it together? Turned out to be two of the bright spots.

Epark84
03-16-2005, 12:25 PM
BTW, remember who our starting staff was last year?

1. Buehrle
2. Loaiza
3. Garland
4. Schoeneweis
5. Wright

How did we stay in contention so long?

Schoenweis pitched his ass off in april and may

Mickster
03-16-2005, 12:34 PM
This is all pretty hypothetical. The one thing that always seems to be true is that whatever you're most worried about going wrong never does. It's always something else. Crede will probably hit .290 and someone else will suck...or get hurt...or something unforseen. What were the big worries at the start of last year? Who's going to close and will Aaron Rowand finally get it together? Turned out to be two of the bright spots.

Touche..... :duel:

balke
03-16-2005, 01:05 PM
I think its wrong to dog Contreras so soon. I'm doing it a little myself. I just hope he can be that guy he can be, cause then we'd have 3 aces at the top of the order, with a possible 4th and 5th at the bottom. There's a lot of potential on this team.

Perhaps the best part of having a B-mac is the pressure for all these starters, knowing we can easily put them on the bench if they don't perform. :wink: