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Blueprint1
03-15-2005, 09:34 AM
I heard on the radio on the way to work today that Iguchi may not be starting at second base. They said that teams have discovered that he cannot hit the inside fastball. They made the comment about having a five million dollar investment sitting on the bench. They also said because of this Harris has been taken off the market. I don't think I've heard worse news lately. I hate to see Harris hacking away again this season. I hope that Ozzie doesn't want to hit him second in the lineup nothing worse than watching this guy strike out over and over.

spawn
03-15-2005, 09:37 AM
Which station said this? Iguchi seems to be handling the bat pretty well. I don't think anyone expected him to hit .300 in his first year. And there are quite a few players that can't handle a good inside fastball. I think it's bogus news personally. To be saying this with almost a month to go in ST is a little premature if you ask me.

Ol' No. 2
03-15-2005, 09:39 AM
I heard on the radio on the way to work today that Iguchi may not be starting at second base. They said that teams have discovered that he cannot hit the inside fastball. They made the comment about having a five million dollar investment sitting on the bench. They also said because of this Harris has been taken off the market. I don't think I've heard worse news lately. I hate to see Harris hacking away again this season. I hope that Ozzie doesn't want to hit him second in the lineup nothing worse than watching this guy strike out over and over.Most serious fans understood that Iguchi would likely need some adjustment time, and that would prompt the Sox to keep Willie around for a while. Until Thomas returns, there's a roster spot available, and even after that they can live without a SS backup on a short-term basis. Willie hits RHP pretty decent, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Podsednik and Rowand bat 1-2 and Harris at #9. Iguchi will start against LHP and some righties until he gets adjusted.

spawn
03-15-2005, 09:46 AM
From Rotoworld.com, 3/13 (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_previousnews.asp?sport=MLB&leaguenum=&id=9993):

Manager Ozzie Guillen has settled on Tadahito Iguchi as his #2 hitter.
''Iguchi, right now, I'm comfortable with him,'' Guillen said. ''He hasn't missed a sign yet -- hit-and-run or whatever. Right now, he looks real good in the second spot. Having Uribe in the bottom gives me more speed there, but I think Iguchi handles the bat better than Juan.'' Scott Podsednik and Iguchi will give the White Sox a ton of speed at the top of the lineup.

From Rotoworld.com, 3/15 (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_previousnews.asp?sport=MLB&leaguenum=&id=9993):

Tadahito Iguchi's hold on the second base job in Chicago may not be as secure as initially thought.
Or at least that's the message White Sox GM Ken Williams sent yesterday when he said Willie Harris has not been ruled out as a starter. ''I told Ozzie [Guillen] I don't care what the contracts are,'' Williams said. ''That's my fault, not his fault. All I care about is winning.'' Unfortunately, Harris has hit .190 this spring, so he isn't exactly making a strong case for the job.

Doesn't look like the sky is falling...

JRIG
03-15-2005, 09:49 AM
It's in the Sun-Times this morning as well. The story seems even sillier when you consider Harris is batting below .200 again this Spring Training.

Palehose13
03-15-2005, 09:56 AM
Spawn and JRIG beat me to it. :smile:

I was looking at the stats so far this spring and Willir hasn't reached the Mendoza line adn IIRC, Iguchi was hitting fairly well.

Baby Fisk
03-15-2005, 09:56 AM
Coming this summer...

...the sequel that will scare the living daylights out of viewers...



:ralomar:
"I can't believe people still pay me to play baseball!"

PaleHoseGeorge
03-15-2005, 10:00 AM
It's in the Sun-Times this morning as well. The story seems even sillier when you consider Harris is batting below .200 again this Spring Training.

This is too funny. We're going to keep Willie Harris around because of his bat???

:roflmao:

Clembasbal
03-15-2005, 10:07 AM
This is probably just a ploy to motivate Harris. I am not worried. I saw Shingo get ripped in Spring Training, only to finish 2nd in ROY voting.

Randar68
03-15-2005, 10:15 AM
I heard on the radio on the way to work today that Iguchi may not be starting at second base. They said that teams have discovered that he cannot hit the inside fastball. They made the comment about having a five million dollar investment sitting on the bench. They also said because of this Harris has been taken off the market. I don't think I've heard worse news lately. I hate to see Harris hacking away again this season. I hope that Ozzie doesn't want to hit him second in the lineup nothing worse than watching this guy strike out over and over.


Well, I usually don't pat myself on the back, but oh well. I think he'll adjust, and while Harris may see some early-season starts while Iguchi adjusts, I think by the end of May he'll have cemented himself in the everyday lineup.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=603221#post603221

PaleHoseGeorge
03-15-2005, 10:30 AM
This is probably just a ploy to motivate Harris. I am not worried. I saw Shingo get ripped in Spring Training, only to finish 2nd in ROY voting.

I think you're half-right. It's definitely a ploy. However it's not a ploy to motivate Harris. It's a ploy by KW to make another GM overpay for Harris.

:KW
"Gosh, I can't imagine what my team will do without Willie Harris's bat."

tadscout
03-15-2005, 10:33 AM
I heard on the radio on the way to work today that Iguchi may not be starting at second base. They said that teams have discovered that he cannot hit the inside fastball. They made the comment about having a five million dollar investment sitting on the bench. They also said because of this Harris has been taken off the market. I don't think I've heard worse news lately. I hate to see Harris hacking away again this season. I hope that Ozzie doesn't want to hit him second in the lineup nothing worse than watching this guy strike out over and over.

I think this is just a Cubbie fan conspieracy!:rolleyes:

balke
03-15-2005, 10:52 AM
Not to be a downer or anything, but so far I haven't seen a lot I liked out of Iguchi. I'm all for adjustment time, and realize it is only Spring Training, but so far it looks like second base is going to be weaker than I had thought.

It just seems like Iguchi is bobbling everything hit to him, and I haven't witnessed a liner double, a steal, or his potential Hr power.

There's a lot more spring training yet, I hope to see something out of him. It would be very bad and probably contagious if both our 2nd and 3rd baseman can't produce .260+ Ba's this season.

Here's hoping to see something highlight worthy out of the gooch soon. :gulp:

MINFAN1
03-15-2005, 11:03 AM
Actually, I am not as concerned with Willie`s hitting as opposed to Iguchis at the plate. We all have seen what Willie can do. But the jury is still out on Iguchi. Espescially in the field. Watching Willie Harris play second last year, I was empressed by his range, and his ability to turn the double-play. By improving our pitching this year, we have to have a solid defense. Iguchi has to prove this yet, or it will cost us games as well. We are very solid up the middle. Crede, and Konerko are solid at the corners. Uribe has the range at short, and is in his natural posistion. Catching, and center-field are solid. But with Iguchi at second, a question mark. He has already made a critical error once that I have read about in spring training. What about his communication problems for that hot-corner. Willie was a whole lot better at second, then in center last year. Accept for the unfortenate collision with Maggs due to his aggresiveness out there. Don`t sell him out yet. Until we can see what Iguchi is made of.

infohawk
03-15-2005, 11:33 AM
Iguchi may be having trouble catching up with inside fastballs now, but he may very well adjust with time. Even so, every player has a hole in his swing that a good pitcher can exploit. As Hawk would say, if a pitcher can throw three straight pitches within the strike zone that the batter can't reach, just grab some bench.

Foulke You
03-15-2005, 11:34 AM
Call me wacky, but perhaps we should wait for Iguchi to actually play his first major league ballgame or two before we pass judgment? Talk to me in mid-May and then we can discuss Iguchi's ability at the Major League level.

PaleHoseGeorge
03-15-2005, 11:47 AM
Call me wacky, but perhaps we should wait for Iguchi to actually play his first major league ballgame or two before we pass judgment? Talk to me in mid-May and then we can discuss Iguchi's ability at the Major League level.

Yup, this thread is really getting silly. It's simply amazing how many fans think spring training games count for something. It only counts if you're vying for the 25th spot!

Iguchi has already made the team. Whether Harris has a better bat than Iguchi is only debatable because Iguchi hasn't ever taken an MLB at-bat -- as if a Japanese ballplayer has any chance of proving himself before his rookie season even begins!

:kukoo:

What we already know is Harris is a poor option for back up shortstop and that's a hole KW must address before the REAL season has gone very far.

If some GM is dumb enough to offer KW more than one bag of baseballs and a fungo bat for Harris, KW ought to jump all over it. Right now I'm afraid KW is only being offered the bag of balls. He needs to get Harris's price up! Leaking some ridiculous rumor about Harris's superior bat is a great way to make it happen.
:thumbsup:

We need a back up shortstop to spell Uribe and (presumably) somebody to spell Iguchi, too. Such a player can be had with all the MLB roster cuts about to take place. Patience is a virtue...

Clembasbal
03-15-2005, 11:52 AM
I think you're half-right. It's definitely a ploy. However it's not a ploy to motivate Harris. It's a ploy by KW to make another GM overpay for Harris.

:KW
"Gosh, I can't imagine what my team will do without Willie Harris's bat."

Well, that was the meaning behind my post. To motivate Harris just enough to show that he is worth something.

BigEdWalsh
03-15-2005, 11:57 AM
It's simply amazing how many fans think spring training games count for something. It only counts if you're vying for the 25th spot!

...

:andy
I'll use Andy the Clown for the 100th Reminder that Spring Training Doesn't Mean S*** Award.

I agree however this whole concern over the notion that Iguchi can't handle inside fastballs and therefore Harris is the better option is just plain silly.

tadscout
03-15-2005, 11:59 AM
I'm sorry but...

:threadblows:
and getting out of hand...

Iguchi still has shown better in spring training than Willie has and what we've only seen him in like 10 or so games?... Just give the guy a chance to adjust like Shingo needed last year... if you don't you may regret it...

Brian26
03-15-2005, 12:01 PM
Yup, this thread is really getting silly. It's simply amazing how many fans think spring training games count for something. It only counts if you're vying for the 25th spot!

:farmer

"Well, I think Frank Thomas is going to have to go out and prove he can make the team this year."

mweflen
03-15-2005, 12:01 PM
This is just standard GM smoke-blowing. And standard media speculation/exaggeration. What's KW supposed to say? "No matter what Willie does, Iguchi will get the nod." Yeah right. See for reference: KW comments on Joe Borchard.

mdep524
03-15-2005, 12:04 PM
What we already know is Harris is a poor option for back up shortstop and that's a hole KW must address before the REAL season has gone very far.
...
We need a back up shortstop to spell Uribe and (presumably) somebody to spell Iguchi, too. Such a player can be had with all the MLB roster cuts about to take place. Patience is a virtue...
George, I think you're right on about the Iguchi/Harris stuff. As for the back up SS, Pablo Ozuna has hit the cover off the ball last year and this spring. I don't know how good he is defensively, but he might hit his way to the utility roster spot.

Tekijawa
03-15-2005, 12:15 PM
Why are we worried about Iguchi not being able to hit the inside fast ball when Willie can't hit an inside fast ball, an outside fast ball, a curve ball, a change up, Sinker, Slider, Knuckle ball, ephus pitch, Screwball, that pitch that Buggs Bunny throws where it moves around and you get three strikes on one pitch, or a ball off of a tee... If this is all wee Willie can do after being SO MOTIVATED THIS OFFSEASON to get his starting position back then I'm ready to give up on him... I have better things to do than worry about someone who can barely hit .160 yet has an ego that not even Frank Thomas could justify.

LVSoxFan
03-15-2005, 12:23 PM
Why are we worried about Iguchi not being able to hit the inside fast ball when Willie can't hit an inside fast ball, an outside fast ball, a curve ball, a change up, Sinker, Slider, Knuckle ball, ephus pitch, Screwball, that pitch that Buggs Bunny throws where it moves around and you get three strikes on one pitch, or a ball off of a tee... If this is all wee Willie can do after being SO MOTIVATED THIS OFFSEASON to get his starting position back then I'm ready to give up on him... I have better things to do than worry about someone who can barely hit .160 yet has an ego that not even Frank Thomas could justify.

LOL! My thoughts exactly. Don't forget "execute a bunt" either. Harris last year was all potential and no execution. He'd better get it together this year, otherwise I'd rather go with the unknown than the known underachiever.

Especially when you've got Rowand and Konerko looking like they're ready to do some serious damage again--I don't want another guaranteed out with Harris. Or somebody who won't steal even though he's the fastest guy on the team.

Tekijawa
03-15-2005, 12:27 PM
LOL! My thoughts exactly. Don't forget "execute a bunt" either. Harris last year was all potential and no execution. He'd better get it together this year, otherwise I'd rather go with the unknown than the known underachiever.

Especially when you've got Rowand and Konerko looking like they're ready to do some serious damage again--I don't want another guaranteed out with Harris. Or somebody who won't steal even though he's the fastest guy on the team.

I heard somewhere that there is a Japaneese team that is looking for a Secondbaseman... Let's see him learn a whole new language so he can tell everyone how great he is... CONICHIWA (I have no idea how that is really spelled) WILLIE!

Brian26
03-15-2005, 12:29 PM
It just seems like Iguchi is bobbling everything hit to him, and I haven't witnessed a liner double, a steal, or his potential Hr power.

Don't worry about him- he's just getting used to playing in real grass as opposed to the artificial stuff over there.

SoxWillWin
03-15-2005, 12:29 PM
Call me wacky, but perhaps we should wait for Iguchi to actually play his first major league ballgame or two before we pass judgment? Talk to me in mid-May and then we can discuss Iguchi's ability at the Major League level.

I agree.....AGAIN. How many threads are we going to have expressing concern over performances that are subpar by either previous seasons standards or expected standards? Iguchi has played 7 games this spring. 7 is by no means a large enough measure of how he will play. Honestly there are players who bat .263 in a seven game stretch.........but after all 162 games they're batting .310 or .320. After he has about 100 Major league at bats is when I will start worrying.

We should just make 2 separate forums.....one for the pessimistic sox fans, and the other for the eternal optimist (which will probably be a whole lot more empty)

PaleHoseGeorge
03-15-2005, 12:38 PM
I'm going to take just a moment here in the middle of all the uncontrolled guffawing about Harris's superior bat and KW's roster hole for back up shortstop to note one very important point.

If Tadahito Iguchi were a thirdbasemen, we would be having this EXACT SAME DISCUSSION about another underachiever handed an everyday job in spite of himself.

Poster child for second and third chances -----> :crede

I'm not tough on Harris. I'm tough on performance. Neither Harris or Crede has done anything to deserve an everyday job in 2005. But Iguchi is a secondbasemen and that's what makes Harris expendable while Crede is worth keeping around for one more breakout season.

Blueprint1
03-15-2005, 12:46 PM
I like how you people thing i wrote that Harris has a better bat. I hate Willie Harris he might be my least favorate White Sox of all time. I don't even think he turns the double play very well I think he tends to backup on the ball. That being said I was only repeating what I heard on a sox update on 670am this morning.

Sad
03-15-2005, 12:50 PM
:b&b Uhhhhhhhhhh Huh Huh... What?

voodoochile
03-15-2005, 12:53 PM
I like how you people thing i wrote that Harris has a better bat. I hate Willie Harris he might be my least favorate White Sox of all time. I don't even think he turns the double play very well I think he tends to backup on the ball. That being said I was only repeating what I heard on a sox update on 670am this morning.

Ah the old "the media said it and I repeated it" defense. Well, now it all makes sense.

I think PHG is right. This smacks of a way to build Harris's value. "We need his bat. He's unavailable"

Riiiiiiiight...

Bucktown
03-15-2005, 12:59 PM
I have only listened to one Sox game this Spring (Sox v. Rockies, I believe). In that game he committed an error that led to a run and had gone hitless including a strike out with bases juiced. I don't know if that is indicative of his play but I was not overly impressed. I think Willie has proven that he is solid, if not stellar. I think it makes sense to give Iguchi more time.

Ol' No. 2
03-15-2005, 12:59 PM
Ah the old "the media said it and I repeated it" defense. Well, now it all makes sense.

I think PHG is right. This smacks of a way to build Harris's value. "We need his bat. He's unavailable"

Riiiiiiiight...More than anything, this smacks of some bozo on the radio talking out of his ass. There's a first time for everything.

duke of dorwood
03-15-2005, 01:09 PM
Note to Kenny:

Take the bag of balls now before it become half a bag. Harris stinks and there is no place for him on this team.

Tekijawa
03-15-2005, 01:10 PM
More than anything, this smacks of some bozo on the radio talking out of his ass. There's a first time for everything.

No not at the Score! They're the same radio station that confirmed that they Sox had Signed Alex Rodregez... They are the Pillar of Journalism!

fquaye149
03-15-2005, 01:15 PM
that pitch that Buggs Bunny throws where it moves around and you get three strikes on one pitch


LOL...but doesn't shingo throw that too?

Blueprint1
03-15-2005, 01:39 PM
Hold on next time i hear something on the radio on a sox update ill be sure to check with you experts before we discuss it. I have been posting on this board for years now and been with whitesoxinteractive since it was a rivals site but i must be some cubs fan clown because I started this discussion. Anyway I only wanted to talk about this becuase i cant stand Harris.

voodoochile
03-15-2005, 01:52 PM
Hold on next time i hear something on the radio on a sox update ill be sure to check with you experts before we discuss it. I have been posting on this board for years now and been with whitesoxinteractive since it was a rivals site but i must be some cubs fan clown because I started this discussion. Anyway I only wanted to talk about this becuase i cant stand Harris.

Great, so why you getting all defensive. Not everyone is going to believe every thread. People are so damned sensitive these days...

daveeym
03-15-2005, 02:02 PM
Great, so why you getting all defensive. Not everyone is going to believe every thread. People are so damned sensitive these days... No, everyone's "special" these days.

spawn
03-15-2005, 02:12 PM
I have only listened to one Sox game this Spring (Sox v. Rockies, I believe). In that game he committed an error that led to a run and had gone hitless including a strike out with bases juiced. I don't know if that is indicative of his play but I was not overly impressed. I think Willie has proven that he is solid, if not stellar. I think it makes sense to give Iguchi more time.
Wait a minute...he has a bad spring training game, and you aren't impressed? You're passing judgement based on one game? We've given Willie at least 3 seasons to prove himself, and he hasn't done so. Excuse me if I wait to see Iguchi play in games that count before I pass judgement.

Stroker Ace
03-15-2005, 02:16 PM
:ralomar: can you say 3-peat

PaleHoseGeorge
03-15-2005, 02:22 PM
Great, so why you getting all defensive. Not everyone is going to believe every thread. People are so damned sensitive these days...

FWIW, I never called out anybody by name. In fact I don't remember reading anybody else's post calling out anyone either.
:?:

It's a stupid rumor. If the source of this bull**** was that sportsblab radio station with the microscopic ratings and the media trolls for hosts, I'm hardly surprised.

If a rumor as silly as this one can possibly have its crediblity destroyed even further, leave to those idiots at 670 AM to manage the feat.
:cool:

Blueprint1
03-15-2005, 02:33 PM
Thats the thing I'm not passing judgment I'm repeating what i heard. It was not my judgment do you understand that yet? Where does my post say Blueprint1 think Harris should start at second? Do we understand yet that this was no my opinion????

DaleJRFan
03-15-2005, 02:39 PM
Iguchi will break camp as the starting 2B. The Sox wouldn't have signed him to a 4+ million dollar deal to ride the pine. If he stinks, then Willie will see playing time. I can't see it happening any other way.

http://www.lucidnoir.com/pictures/diethreaddie.jpg

spawn
03-15-2005, 02:40 PM
Thats the thing I'm not passing judgment I'm repeating what i heard. It was not my judgment do you understand that yet? Where does my post say Blueprint1 think Harris should start at second? Do we understand yet that this was no my opinion????
If you're referring to my post, I wasn't quoting you. I was quoting Bucktown. I never said you were passing judgement.

Iwritecode
03-15-2005, 02:44 PM
Great, so why you getting all defensive. Not everyone is going to believe every thread. People are so damned sensitive these days...

I did shed a tear when I saw that a few posts were moved out of a thread I started and into the roadhouse. I think I'll go to the PL and start a rant about it...

:D:

FightingBillini
03-15-2005, 02:46 PM
Iguchi will break camp as the starting 2B. The Sox wouldn't have signed him to a 4+ million dollar deal to ride the pine. If he stinks, then Willie will see playing time. I can't see it happening any other way.

I agree with you to a certian point. However, In some fantasy world where Willie was hitting .350 in the regular season with a .450OBP and playing gold glove 2B, I would sit Iguchi. You want the big money players out there, but if you find that the small money players outperform the big money ones, then you sit the money and try to trade him. See Tom Brady and Drew Bledsoe. I dont think Ozzie would hesitate to play Harris if he was doing a lot better than Iguchi.

Ok, now back to reality...

Ol' No. 2
03-15-2005, 02:48 PM
I'm sorry but...

:threadblows:
and getting out of hand......and continues to spiral out of control.

Iwritecode
03-15-2005, 02:54 PM
Iguchi will break camp as the starting 2B. The Sox wouldn't have signed him to a 4+ million dollar deal to ride the pine. If he stinks, then Willie will see playing time. I can't see it happening any other way.

Interesting quote from KW in the Southtown:

Williams also said he told manager Ozzie Guillen to play the best player and not be concerned if Iguchi, who was signed as a free agent this offseason and will be paid nearly $5 million over the next two years, begins the season on the bench.

"I told Ozzie I don't care what the contracts are," Williams said. "That's my fault, not his fault. All I care about is winning."

Asked if second base could become a platoon situation, Williams didn't discount that idea.

"All I know is that I have two pretty good players over there and Ozzie has the latitude to use them however he wants," Williams said. "They'll dictate who plays. The reason (the Iguchi) move was made was the last couple of months of the season I challenged Willie, told him exactly what was expected of him, and did not feel comfortable going into (the 2005) season with that being our only option."

bafiarocks03
03-15-2005, 03:11 PM
WOOHOO! Please...Willie should so be the starter!!

daveeym
03-15-2005, 03:17 PM
WOOHOO! Please...Willie should so be the starter!! Shouldn't you be studying now?:wink:

voodoochile
03-15-2005, 03:19 PM
Thats the thing I'm not passing judgment I'm repeating what i heard. It was not my judgment do you understand that yet? Where does my post say Blueprint1 think Harris should start at second? Do we understand yet that this was no my opinion????

So you're saying that it is your opinion and yours alone that Iguchi sucks and Harris should be the starter based on his superior bat? :wink:

harwar
03-15-2005, 03:27 PM
From the little that i have seen of Iguchi he seems to have very good bat control and the ability to spray the ball around to all fields.
I love Willies' speed but i feel that Iguchi fits in a Tad better as the no.2 man.

spawn
03-15-2005, 03:35 PM
I love Willies' speed but i feel that Iguchi fits in a Tad better as the no.2 man.

Pun intended?:D:

bafiarocks03
03-15-2005, 03:50 PM
Shouldn't you be studying now?:wink:

psh...no!

DaleJRFan
03-15-2005, 04:00 PM
Interesting quote from KW in the Southtown:


Again.... please...

http://www.lucidnoir.com/pictures/diethreaddie.jpg

TheBull19
03-15-2005, 04:29 PM
So you're saying that it is your opinion and yours alone that Iguchi sucks and Harris should be the starter based on his superior bat? :wink:

I don't get it Voodoo, does he or doesn't he believe Harris should be the starter?I think he should post a few more times to clarify his position.