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View Full Version : Mike Downey: Sox and Cubs BOTH suck!


Unregistered
03-14-2005, 11:22 PM
SO HERE IT IS. Hangar, are you ready? The OFFICIAL new stance of the Chicago media:

If the Cubs are bad, then the Sox are bad too!

I'm still waiting for the day this guy writes a decent column. He tries to lump us in with the lovable losers, saying neither team has anything to be excited about.


Of the 10 pitchers projected to be in the Sox's and Cubs' starting rotations, only one, Greg Maddux, has indisputable credentials as a big-league ace.

I have heard references to the Sox staff being unquestionably solid, but is it? Mark Buehrle hasn't yet won 70 games in his career. Freddy Garcia is 25-25 over the last two seasons. "El Duque" Hernandez won eight games in 2004. Jose Contreras had an ERA of 5.50. Jon Garland is 46-51 lifetime.

And if either of these clubs has a Mariano Rivera or an Eric Gagne in its bullpen, I must have missed it.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-050314downey,1,106025.column?coll=cs-home-utility

Edit: Apparently I mixed up crappy sports writers.

MRKARNO
03-15-2005, 12:04 AM
This article is full of solid logic and excellent points. It comes highly recommended by yours truly.

SoxSpeed22
03-15-2005, 12:10 AM
This must be done
:threadsucks

FightingBillini
03-15-2005, 12:30 AM
This flaming piece of excrement was written by Downey, not Cowley. I suppose it's novel to not pick the Cubs to win the series like every other tool "experts" in Chicago, but this piece is utter crap. It is basically a BS piece made to stir up controversy and readership. He says the Sox fans think they have improved, "Based on what?" Oh, I don't know, jackass, maybe based on the fact that our most pressing hole is backup shortstop. Maybe because we filled all our holes, signed a very good veteran pitcher, a right fielder who proved to be one of the best in baseball when healthy, one of the best catchers in the game, a japanese all star 2B and gold glover, two solid relievers, and a legitimate leadoff man. We finally have a very good fifth starter, and a very good bullpen. We also improved our defense at 2B, SS, RF, and LF, while adding the stolen base leaders from both America and Japan. We improved a lot of areas, and didn't regress at any position (Dye will perform MUCH better than the collective RF in 2004). Based on that, moron.

ChiWhiteSox1337
03-15-2005, 12:42 AM
Jeez, that point about Buehrle is so stupid. He's only been in the bigs for 5 years, including his short stint in 2000, so it's understandable that he only has 69 wins. He has a .609% winning percentage, and he's trying to say he isn't a proven ace?!? :?:

Palehose13
03-15-2005, 11:35 AM
Jeez, that point about Buehrle is so stupid. He's only been in the bigs for 5 years, including his short stint in 2000, so it's understandable that he only has 69 wins. He has a .609% winning percentage, and he's trying to say he isn't a proven ace?!? :?:

I was thinking the same thing when I read that, so i am going to add something else. Since 2001 (when Buehrle became a real starter), MB has won 65 games in 4 years. That is an average of 16.25 wins/year. I can totally see what he means by saying that Buehrle isn't a proven ace. :rolleyes:

Lip Man 1
03-15-2005, 01:10 PM
Seems to me Downey was sticking it to both teams and their fans.

As far as the Sox, like I said before, this is either going to work out very well (90+ wins) or be real bad (75 wins.) No middle ground...no 83 wins.

Ultimately PHG may be right...to win today you need a bunch of great hitters (be it home run or high average / RBI types) AND great pitching, particularly from the starting corps. (PHG if I misunderstood your comments from another thread I apologize)

The problem from the Sox standpoint is that getting great hitters and very good starting pitching takes a lot of money which the Sox claim they don't have.

We'll see.

Lip

PatK
03-15-2005, 03:03 PM
Funny, he makes a point that Buehrle isn't a legitimate ace because he doesn't have 70 career wins, yet 3 of the Cubs "legitimate #1 starters" (Wood, Prior, Zambrano) have less wins than he does.

Lip Man 1
03-15-2005, 05:24 PM
Pat:

Very good point. E-mail him and let him know.

Lip

voodoochile
03-15-2005, 05:26 PM
Funny, he makes a point that Buehrle isn't a legitimate ace because he doesn't have 70 career wins, yet 3 of the Cubs "legitimate #1 starters" (Wood, Prior, Zambrano) have less wins than he does.

You might also point out that Buehrle is averaging 14 wins per season even including the first one when he wasn't a starter.

Edit: since becoming a full time starter in 2001 he has averaged 16.25 wins per season. That is NOT chopped liver.

Ol' No. 2
03-15-2005, 05:35 PM
You might also point out that Buehrle is averaging 14 wins per season even including the first one when he wasn't a starter.

Edit: since becoming a full time starter in 2001 he has averaged 16.25 wins per season. That is NOT chopped liver.But Kerry Woulda had more except...blah, blah, blah.

MIgrenade
03-15-2005, 06:37 PM
What year is he living in? Mariano Rivera is not the same dominating closer he used to be, which I think was shown in the playoffs (I could be wrong on this one) and Maddux, at this stage in his career, is no better than Garland. Both have flashes of brilliance but usually have a bad inning that kills them. There aren't that many teams that have a better ace than Buehrle in the American league and I beg him to stack up the Yankees or any other team's bullpen against the Sox. No we don't have Gagne, but the Dodgers don't have the rest of the Sox bullpen. You take your Yankees, who are becoming the Braves of this decade, and see what happens.
Yes the Sox have questions about whether the pitching will indeed hold up but if you're going to rip into a team think through your arguments. It must be easy to write whatever you want with no fear of retribution.

Dan H
03-16-2005, 03:12 PM
Actually this was one of Downey's better columns. Except for his lame point about Buerhle, who can at least stay healthy and who has been a consistent winner, the Sox are no cinch to win anything. Contraras and Hernandez are big keys. If they falter, it will be a long season.

veeter
03-16-2005, 03:31 PM
Seems to me Downey was sticking it to both teams and their fans.

As far as the Sox, like I said before, this is either going to work out very well (90+ wins) or be real bad (75 wins.) No middle ground...no 83 wins.

Ultimately PHG may be right...to win today you need a bunch of great hitters (be it home run or high average / RBI types) AND great pitching, particularly from the starting corps. (PHG if I misunderstood your comments from another thread I apologize)

The problem from the Sox standpoint is that getting great hitters and very good starting pitching takes a lot of money which the Sox claim they don't have.

We'll see.

Lip In other words you need to have a payroll in excess of 100 mil.

PAPChiSox729
03-16-2005, 06:37 PM
You might also point out that Buehrle is averaging 14 wins per season even including the first one when he wasn't a starter.

Edit: since becoming a full time starter in 2001 he has averaged 16.25 wins per season. That is NOT chopped liver.

Buehrle has to be one of the most underrated pitchers in the league. It is amazing how even the local media continues to ignore how good Buehrle is. Then again, I shouldn't be surprised. The local and national media are both clueless.

Lip Man 1
03-16-2005, 08:02 PM
Veeter:

If that's what it takes. PHG has a point when he says to win you have to score runs and PREVENT the other team from scoring as many as you do. Good pitching, especially starting pitching, costs big money...good hitting especially high home run or high average / RBI guys costs money, big money.

The Sox say they don't have it. Whether that's true or not is debatable but there is a reason why they are trying to fill out their roster on guys like Hernandez and hope they come up big.

As Dan Helpingstein has correctly said there are a lot of question marks with this team.

We'll see how it shakes out. Like I said they'll either win 90+ games or they'll win 75, no in between.

My comments were not trying to bash the Sox mearly stating that to follow the map PHG advises it's going to cost you. Maybe that's why the Sox chose to go the route of trying to get good (not great) pitching in depth and to try to manufacture runs. Those type of players don't cost as much.

Lip