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veeter
03-14-2005, 11:25 AM
Crede's spring has me 95% sure he's is going to be a huge problem for the team. His swing still looks long. Sure, he'll bump into a few pitches but I think his year will duplicate last year. I think he's peaked offensively. I'm sick of hearing about batting cages he put up and tapping his toe for timing. Show me results./ Honel's outing bummed me out too. He's bigger than I thought but he showed no velocity. I hope he has a great year at AA or high A but my knee-jerk scouting report leaves me unimpressed. However, it is only one outing and he still may be babying his arm./ Otherwise the Sox look very solid to me and I expect the division. Oh yeah, Osuna looks like a real good utility guy.

DaleJRFan
03-14-2005, 11:31 AM
There are a lot of clubs that would love to have a Crede type at 3B. Crede will hit 250 with 18HR / 65RBIs, will play solid defense and that is all we should expect from him.

It is unrealistic for Sox fans to expect every single damn player on the team to hit 300 with 25HR / 100RBIs.

mikehuff
03-14-2005, 11:35 AM
We're stuck with Crede throughout this year, no matter what happens. I don't think they are ready to bring up Josh Fields yet and there is no one else to take over that position.

The only option they would have, would be to move Uribe over again, but then Iguchi would have to move to SS and Harris back at 2B. That's an extreme case and that would only happen for a couple games in case of an injury.

Crede is here no matter what. That's what I believe. We will have to wait until next year to see any changes if he fails again.

Clembasbal
03-14-2005, 11:41 AM
Granted I have only seen Josh Fields on TV so far, I will hopefully see him live when I leave for Tuscon soon, but anyway this is what I got from him.

He has decent range, he is slow, and he has too big of a step when he swings. He starts is before the pitcher throws, telling me he is already committing himself to whatever pitch is thrown/ whatever pitch he thinks will be thrown. His step is not like Crazy Carl's though, Fields' step is more out then up, making the weight transition to the front foot leaving him dead on any breaking stuff...unless that is what he is looking for...then vise versa.

I think he will be solid, but really no better than Crede. I like Crede's fielding ability, and his bat needs to improve. But I think it is solid for a 3B. .250/20/70 is good for me. There are not too many 3B's that are great in the field and at the play, yes there are some, Chavez comes to mind. Crede is solid in both measures of the game, and that is good enough for me, and it should be for everybody else.

mcfish
03-14-2005, 11:51 AM
Crede is solid in both measures of the game, and that is good enough for me, and it should be for everybody else.Just because having that automatic out in the lineup is good enough for you doesn't mean it has to be good enough for everyone else. The rest of us will be happier than last year if he's the only hole on the team, but would be happier still if there weren't any holes at all. Just because we have 8 solid guys in the lineup doesn't mean that we should stop looking for a way to make that 9.

BigEdWalsh
03-14-2005, 11:55 AM
I'm not much of a Joe Crede fan. Every year he has one good month which balloons his otherwise pathetic numbers. Last year he hit .230 in April and .184 in May. He had his June... .329! .198 in July and .210 in August. Finished with .275 in Sept. He seems to do this every year. That's 4 really poor months outta 6. That really can't be tolerated.

If he hit a steady .270 -.280 for the season I'd be happy. But I'm not counting on it.

Stroker Ace
03-14-2005, 11:56 AM
There are a lot of clubs that would love to have a Crede type at 3B. Crede will hit 250 with 18HR / 65RBIs, will play solid defense and that is all we should expect from him.

It is unrealistic for Sox fans to expect every single damn player on the team to hit 300 with 25HR / 100RBIs.

Yeah. Crede isn't going to be a great offensive player, but he makes up with it in a pretty good defensive game. I would just like to see Crede's average rise about 20-30 points.

Mohoney
03-14-2005, 11:59 AM
.250/20/70 is good for me.

I think the question is, why is everybody penciling him in for at least .250?

This guy could very well hit in the .230s again, or even lower. He could post another OBP under .300.

If this guy puts up numbers in April and May that are not improved from 2004, he needs to be replaced, plain and simple.

Mohoney
03-14-2005, 12:00 PM
Just because we have 8 solid guys in the lineup doesn't mean that we should stop looking for a way to make that 9.

AMEN!

veeter
03-14-2005, 12:08 PM
Just because having that automatic out in the lineup is good enough for you doesn't mean it has to be good enough for everyone else. The rest of us will be happier than last year if he's the only hole on the team, but would be happier still if there weren't any holes at all. Just because we have 8 solid guys in the lineup doesn't mean that we should stop looking for a way to make that 9. Vinny Castilla was there for the taking. He signed for 2yrs/ 6mil. with Washington. A fairly cheap, very good two year solution. A latin player that would have fit in nicely.

pudge
03-14-2005, 12:20 PM
Vinny Castilla was there for the taking. He signed for 2yrs/ 6mil. with Washington. A fairly cheap, very good two year solution. A latin player that would have fit in nicely.

See this is why I guess I can't get too upset- I'd much rather have AJ and Guchi than a Castilla or Koskie. I know Crede is going to be a hole in the lineup, but I guess we'll have to live with it.

veeter
03-14-2005, 12:21 PM
See this is why I guess I can't get too upset- I'd much rather have AJ and Guchi than a Castilla or Koskie. I know Crede is going to be a hole in the lineup, but I guess we'll have to live with it. What's wrong with Castilla in addition to AJ and Iguchi?

MisterB
03-14-2005, 12:44 PM
I think he will be solid, but really no better than Crede. I like Crede's fielding ability, and his bat needs to improve. But I think it is solid for a 3B. .250/20/70 is good for me. There are not too many 3B's that are great in the field and at the play, yes there are some, Chavez comes to mind. Crede is solid in both measures of the game, and that is good enough for me, and it should be for everybody else.

An 'average' AL 3B last year would be about .270/25/85. Considering the guy was a 2-time MVP in the minors, I don't think being able to put up 'average' offensive numbers should be too much to expect.

MisterB
03-14-2005, 12:45 PM
What's wrong with Castilla in addition to AJ and Iguchi?

:reinsy
"You want him, YOU pay him."

Randar68
03-14-2005, 12:46 PM
This guy could very well hit in the .230s again, or even lower. He could post another OBP under .300.


I happen to think him hitting in the .230's is no more likely than him hitting .290+. He had a crap year and how many HR's and RBI's did he have? If he ups his average 20 points, he'll be in the .250-270 range with 30 HR's and an OBP of .320 or so. Probably about 70-80 RBI's out of that "gaping hole" everyone keeps whining about...

Sheeesh. Most teams would kill for that to be their weak-spot. Then again, I hear Royce Clayton is available for SS and we can move Uribe to 3rd...

BigEdWalsh
03-14-2005, 12:55 PM
I happen to think him hitting in the .230's is no more likely than him hitting .290+. He had a crap year and how many HR's and RBI's did he have? If he ups his average 20 points, he'll be in the .250-270 range with 30 HR's and an OBP of .320 or so. Probably about 70-80 RBI's out of that "gaping hole" everyone keeps whining about...

Sheeesh. Most teams would kill for that to be their weak-spot. Then again, I hear Royce Clayton is available for SS and we can move Uribe to 3rd...

You said it yourself. Crede had a "crap year". And we should be thrilled? We shouldn't be worried that he won't have another one? :dunno: Three or four months of Joe hitting about .210? :bandance:

SoxWillWin
03-14-2005, 01:00 PM
It is unrealistic for Sox fans to expect every single damn player on the team to hit 300 with 25HR / 100RBIs.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Ol' No. 2
03-14-2005, 01:02 PM
You said it yourself. Crede had a "crap year". And we should be thrilled? We shouldn't be worried that he won't have another one? :dunno: Three or four months of Joe hitting about .210? :bandance:For all the hot air expended on this subject, nobody knows what Crede will do this year. For better or worse, he's got the job right now. We're just going to have to wait and see how he does. But if he's still struggling below .240 in June, I would not expect Kenny to stick with him through the season. I believe he'd try to replace him, assuming something better is available at the right price.

SoxWillWin
03-14-2005, 01:04 PM
You said it yourself. Crede had a "crap year". And we should be thrilled? We shouldn't be worried that he won't have another one? :dunno: Three or four months of Joe hitting about .210? :bandance:

Damn the psychic juices are flowing in this thread.......It's still spring TRAINING. I could say that because Iguchi made 1 error against the A's the other day that he's going to suck and that I'm ALL worried, But in reality that error and that entire game means squat. One thing people still forget, spring training is not for US. It's not for the fans it's for the team to work off winter rust and to try and better deficiencies in thier game. Let's just RELAX

mcfish
03-14-2005, 01:05 PM
There are a lot of clubs that would love to have a Crede type at 3B. Crede will hit 250 with 18HR / 65RBIs, will play solid defense and that is all we should expect from him.

It is unrealistic for Sox fans to expect every single damn player on the team to hit 300 with 25HR / 100RBIs.He hit .239 though, not even .250. .239 is REALLY BAD. His OBP wasn't even .300. (and don't say "it was .299 - that's close enough" because .299 is a terrible OBP.) I'm not expecting ever player to hit .300, but I do expect none of them to hit below .240, and I don't think that's too much to ask.

Mohoney
03-14-2005, 01:19 PM
I happen to think him hitting in the .230's is no more likely than him hitting .290+.

Fine, but what if he IS hitting in the .230s come June?

Do you stick with him?

Tannerfan
03-14-2005, 01:32 PM
I say move Uribe to 3rd and start Ozuna at SS. I know Ozuna should be a utility guy, but I'd rather have another Ozzie ball type guy batting 9th instead of Joe (instant out) Crede.

BigEdWalsh
03-14-2005, 01:40 PM
Damn the psychic juices are flowing in this thread.......It's still spring TRAINING. I could say that because Iguchi made 1 error against the A's the other day that he's going to suck and that I'm ALL worried, But in reality that error and that entire game means squat. One thing people still forget, spring training is not for US. It's not for the fans it's for the team to work off winter rust and to try and better deficiencies in thier game. Let's just RELAX
Who's talking about Spring Training? I'm talking about last year and the year before....
The truth of the matter is Crede, aside from a couple of months the last couple of years, has sucked. I hope to heck he hits consistently this year, but I'm skeptical. I'm not saying the sky is falling. Don't even go there.:smile:

Randar68
03-14-2005, 01:44 PM
Fine, but what if he IS hitting in the .230s come June?

Do you stick with him?

Not if you have or can acquire a better option (PS> Iguchi at SS and Uribe at 3B with Harris at 2B is NOT a better option).

Randar68
03-14-2005, 01:44 PM
I say move Uribe to 3rd and start Ozuna at SS. I know Ozuna should be a utility guy, but I'd rather have another Ozzie ball type guy batting 9th instead of Joe (instant out) Crede.

Do you realize that Ozuna is 30 years old?





didn't think so.

DaleJRFan
03-14-2005, 01:59 PM
I'll take my chances with Crede this season. KW can make a move at the deadline if need be... Polanco will be available if the Yankees don't get him first.

Mohoney
03-15-2005, 01:15 AM
Not if you have or can acquire a better option (PS> Iguchi at SS and Uribe at 3B with Harris at 2B is NOT a better option).

So if, say, the Devil Rays put Aubrey Huff on the block, you would make the move?

If Garland, Crede, and somebody else can get 1.5 seasons of Huff in the middle of our lineup, plus the 1st rounder when he leaves and Fields comes up in 2007, I wouldn't be opposed at all to pulling the trigger and kicking off the BMac era a little early. With that kind of command on his curveball, I have no doubt that BMac can eclipse the combined numbers of the 5th starters last year as long as he's kept there all season with no going back and forth to the minors.

Of course, if Crede improves, it makes this all moot. I just want to know what the backup plan might be if Crede sucks again.

mdep524
03-15-2005, 01:50 AM
I hope Crede has a good year and puts all this talk to rest, though like ON2 said, it is very difficult to predict what the guy will actually do this year.

The one thing I want to add to this thread is that everyone seems to be counting on Fields as a near sure thing. What separates him from Crede anyway? Crede put up excellent numbers all the way through the minors, and had a better glove than Fields. Hopefully Fields pans out, but he could easily be another Crede, or Borchard (two way athlete turned power hitter who hits well in the minors but doesn't quite make it in the majors)

Ol' No. 2
03-15-2005, 08:50 AM
I hope Crede has a good year and puts all this talk to rest, though like ON2 said, it is very difficult to predict what the guy will actually do this year.

The one thing I want to add to this thread is that everyone seems to be counting on Fields as a near sure thing. What separates him from Crede anyway? Crede put up excellent numbers all the way through the minors, and had a better glove than Fields. Hopefully Fields pans out, but he could easily be another Crede, or Borchard (two way athlete turned power hitter who hits well in the minors but doesn't quite make it in the majors)Well said. Fields has done nothing so far, and it doesn't look like he'll be ready before 2007, in any case. Also, let's wait a while before annointing McCarthy as the next Cy Young. The kid's had 4 games in AA and a couple of ST games under his belt. Trading away Garland and counting on McCarthy to fill his spot seems a bit premature.

Baby Fisk
03-15-2005, 09:02 AM
I'll take my chances with Crede this season. KW can make a move at the deadline if need be... Polanco will be available if the Yankees don't get him first.
Or we could sign Robin Ventura to a glorious 3-month contract and championship run.

[*realizing he's contributing nothing to the discussion and sulks away*]

pssondacubs
03-15-2005, 09:52 AM
I could say that because Iguchi made 1 error against the A's the other day that he's going to suck and that I'm ALL worried, But in reality that error and that entire game means squat.

If Crede had just a couple bad outings then your post makes sense, but you're comparing apples to oranges. Iguchi's been a constant All-Star doing the right things at the right times. Crede's been a constant disappointment with a couple positives. And to think they let Robin go so this guy could play third.....:mad:

Clembasbal
03-15-2005, 10:13 AM
I think the question is, why is everybody penciling him in for at least .250?

This guy could very well hit in the .230s again, or even lower. He could post another OBP under .300.

If this guy puts up numbers in April and May that are not improved from 2004, he needs to be replaced, plain and simple.

Heck .230/20/65 is fine by me.

If we play the way Ozzie wants, averages are going to be lower this year...all around. Hitting to RF to move a runner over and giving yourself up for an out (not talking about sacrifice bunts becaue they don't count for AB's...I know this) will do this.

If you think that Ozuna, Harris, or whoever else is going to give that to us, then you all are crazy. Harris and Ozuna might have a higher average, but a higher RBI's, Runs, avg w/ RISP, probably not...that is what we need.

And just because you are awesome in the minors doesn't mean it will translate into a successful major league career. Heck I have heard of a ton of Minor league MVP's and Minor league POTY's that have done nothing in the MLB.

DickAllen72
03-15-2005, 05:00 PM
One of the problems with Crede is he's such a low energy ball player. He just seems to suck the life right out of the game when he comes up, pops up with that golf swing, then hangs his head as he trots to first base. He has such loser body language that he just brings you down watching him play. I think that can rub off on the players around him.

I hope he can turn it around and be the player he's supposed to have been, but he shouldn't be guaranteed the starting spot until he impresses with his performance. The Sox should be looking for another option at 3B. Perhaps a guy like Mackowiak backing up there would be a good idea, if he can be obtained.

MRKARNO
03-15-2005, 05:03 PM
Vinny Castilla was there for the taking. He signed for 2yrs/ 6mil. with Washington. A fairly cheap, very good two year solution. A latin player that would have fit in nicely.

Crede could repeat last year again and probably end up having a better year than Castilla is going to have going from Coors to JFK (which supposedy has similar dimensions to Shea Stadium).

Randar68
03-15-2005, 05:07 PM
Crede could repeat last year again and probably end up having a better year than Castilla is going to have going from Coors to JFK (which supposedy has similar dimensions to Shea Stadium).

I think an international airport likely has even more spacious dimensions than any baseball stadium...



Or did you mean RFK?:D:

Lip Man 1
03-15-2005, 05:10 PM
Karno:

Frank Robinson was quoted in a recent S.I. story on the Nationals as saying that RFK usually played 'fair' for both pitchers and hitters but that in the summer he remembers that the ball carried well.

Lip