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MRKARNO
03-12-2005, 11:25 PM
Brandon McCarthy, RHP, White Sox: "He's the best young pitcher I've seen this spring," says one AL scout. "He can really pitch. He has a great changeup, outstanding breaking ball and his fastball is enough. The next Jack McDowell." Was 17-5 on three levels.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=2011372

mike squires
03-12-2005, 11:31 PM
I'm thinking we'll get a glimpse of him this year. Especially if Hernandez or someone goes down. I'd hate to bring him up to early (the Sox have a history of doing that) but if he can get the job done??? If not him who is next in line to take a spot in the rotation if someone goes down???

Irishsox1
03-12-2005, 11:35 PM
The next Jack McDowell? Does that mean he will suck in the playoffs, flip off Yankees fan, play in a crappy band and grow out his hair so he looks like a clown?

Needless to say, I still haven't gotten over Jack's pathetic pitching in the '93 playoffs.

fed ex 4 pasqua
03-12-2005, 11:45 PM
i like mccarthy, but gammons is incorrect about the changeup, as he is still learning the pitch.

depy48
03-12-2005, 11:48 PM
The next Jack McDowell? Does that mean he will suck in the playoffs, flip off Yankees fan, play in a crappy band and grow out his hair so he looks like a clown?

Needless to say, I still haven't gotten over Jack's pathetic pitching in the '93 playoffs.

you're right, his 22-10 record and 3.37 ERA with 10 complete games and 4 shutouts in '93 had no effect on the Sox making the playoffs that season. Maybe you should lay off McDowell...

SpammySosa
03-13-2005, 02:24 AM
you're right, his 22-10 record and 3.37 ERA with 10 complete games and 4 shutouts in '93 had no effect on the Sox making the playoffs that season. Maybe you should lay off McDowell...

Took the words right out of my mouth.

SoxxoS
03-13-2005, 02:53 AM
I think his stuff is above average...and his makeup off the charts. And I would rather have that kind of a pitcher than strictly a tools guy (Contreras, Brett Myers, Brazelton)...Makeup is too often overlooked in scouting, IMO, and that is why a guy like Huston Street (who was in our community hot tub a couple weeks ago...weird) is going to be successful.

Randar68
03-13-2005, 10:36 AM
I think his stuff is above average...and his makeup off the charts. And I would rather have that kind of a pitcher than strictly a tools guy (Contreras, Brett Myers, Brazelton)...Makeup is too often overlooked in scouting, IMO, and that is why a guy like Huston Street (who was in our community hot tub a couple weeks ago...weird) is going to be successful.

The makeup and accumen for pitching and the game in general is the key, IMO. He has good deception and his "stuff" is definitely overlooked at times. If he can tutn that change-up into a plus pitch and trust it, he's going to be very deadly... (not like he isn't already)


Do we really need to rehash McDowell tipping his pitches? Gaston was one of the best in the game at picking up on those kinds of things. The Jays noticed it and exploited it at the right time. If someone had figured it out earlier in the season and McDowell had corrected it (like he did the following year), we might have been talking about the 1994 season wiping out our chances of a repeat...

Lip Man 1
03-13-2005, 12:00 PM
Irish:

Of course the fact that Toronto baserunners were relaying signs from second to the hitters had NOTHING to do with it nor did Cito saying that both Jack and Alex were tipping their pitchers.

McDowell was the winningest pitcher in MLB between 1990 and 1994 and a Cy Young Award winner. I can live with his 93 ALCS issues.

Lip

Stroker Ace
03-13-2005, 06:25 PM
Gammons said something right for once

SOXSINCE'70
03-13-2005, 06:32 PM
you're right, his 22-10 record and 3.37 ERA with 10 complete games and 4 shutouts in '93 had no effect on the Sox making the playoffs that season. Maybe you should lay off McDowell...

Don't forget his 20 wins in '92 and his 17 in '91.:cool: :cool:

veeter
03-13-2005, 06:33 PM
Hawk again today said B-Mac was 24 y/o. Why doesn't someone clue him in? Also, other than his body-type, McCarthy doesn't remind me of McDowell at all. His set up looks like Prior's. His wind up and delivery is pure Brandon McCarthy. Black Jack was fast-ball, splitter. B-Mac is fast ball, curve, change. I like what I see of him. He's very poised and unafraid.

Irishsox1
03-13-2005, 07:18 PM
you're right, his 22-10 record and 3.37 ERA with 10 complete games and 4 shutouts in '93 had no effect on the Sox making the playoffs that season. Maybe you should lay off McDowell...

The guy choked in the playoffs, tipping pitches or not, he stunk when the White Sox needed him the most. In the '93 playoffs he was 0-2 with a 10.00 ERA. I liked Black Jack, but he really sucked against Toronto and that's what I remember about McDowell.

SluggersAway
03-13-2005, 07:24 PM
I don't think we should get to excited about B-Mac yet. I'd like to give him some more time. But, I can see Contreras getting into trouble and the Sox needing some help. Maybe, he is the answer.

We'll have to wait and see...

WhiteSoxNation
03-13-2005, 07:38 PM
I can see us moving someone around the deadline or earlier to have B Mac as I call him, called up..

2005 Prediction
(14-5)
3.45era
178ip
155k

B M l o t 7
03-13-2005, 07:40 PM
i also dont think hes ready yet but at least we have a real pitcher to call up when either contreas does bad or hernandez gets injured instead of felix diaz whos been bad every time we call him up except the cubs game

SOX ADDICT '73
03-13-2005, 07:47 PM
I can see us moving someone around the deadline or earlier to have B Mac as I call him, called up.
Great idea for a nickname! I hope it catches on.:wink:

SoxxoS
03-13-2005, 07:55 PM
I can see us moving someone around the deadline or earlier to have B Mac as I call him, called up..


Yeah, I tried to give my favorite player a nickname when he was coming up...it was Alex Rodriguez...I thought AROD just fit really well...I can't believe it hasn't caught on.

SpammySosa
03-13-2005, 09:12 PM
The guy choked in the playoffs, tipping pitches or not, he stunk when the White Sox needed him the most. In the '93 playoffs he was 0-2 with a 10.00 ERA. I liked Black Jack, but he really sucked against Toronto and that's what I remember about McDowell.

I am not sure how you can so easily disregard that he was a huge reason they got to the playoffs in the first place.Additionally,you win games as a team. But you conveniently overlook the fact that the team averaged less than 4 runs a game in that series,including 2.5 runs in the games they lost. No one can refute that BlackJack had a terrible series,but try looking at the big picture(only some of which I have drawn from). If a player fails because he isn't trying,hang him out to dry. But BlackJack more than proved himself in '93 and deserves a lot more respect than you are giving him.

tadscout
03-13-2005, 09:29 PM
I am not sure how you can so easily disregard that he was a huge reason they got to the playoffs in the first place.Additionally,you win games as a team. But you conveniently overlook the fact that the team averaged less than 4 runs a game in that series,including 2.5 runs in the games they lost. No one can refute that BlackJack had a terrible series,but try looking at the big picture(only some of which I have drawn from). If a player fails because he isn't trying,hang him out to dry. But BlackJack more than proved himself in '93 and deserves a lot more respect than you are giving him.

Amen:cheers:

TheBull19
03-13-2005, 09:31 PM
The guy choked in the playoffs, tipping pitches or not, he stunk when the White Sox needed him the most. In the '93 playoffs he was 0-2 with a 10.00 ERA. I liked Black Jack, but he really sucked against Toronto and that's what I remember about McDowell.

If that's what you remember most about him, you must not be much of a Sox fan, or at least not much of one in the early 90's. McDowell was the man.

batmanZoSo
03-13-2005, 09:43 PM
I would certainly take another Jack McDowell. Man what a competitor.

Mohoney
03-14-2005, 11:43 AM
Needless to say, I still haven't gotten over Jack's pathetic pitching in the '93 playoffs.

For some reason, I really believe that if Fisk was catching McDowell in the playoffs, things would have been different.

Randar68
03-14-2005, 12:00 PM
The guy choked in the playoffs, tipping pitches or not, he stunk when the White Sox needed him the most. In the '93 playoffs he was 0-2 with a 10.00 ERA. I liked Black Jack, but he really sucked against Toronto and that's what I remember about McDowell.

:whoflungpoo

'Nuff Said.

fquaye149
03-14-2005, 12:07 PM
good thing this turned into a debate about black jack

Randar68
03-14-2005, 12:19 PM
good thing this turned into a debate about black jack

Good thing we don't have 5 other Brandon McCarthy threads strewn about multiple boards...

shoota
03-14-2005, 01:18 PM
When Black Jack is dealing, the house always wins. :cool:

flo-B-flo
03-15-2005, 02:17 PM
Someday I'm going to read something by gammons and it will not have the drooling, fawning over superhero Joe Mauer. Well, maybe not.

Hank Kimball
03-15-2005, 03:13 PM
Steve Stone and Jeff Brantley are interviewing BMac (that's what I call him).

He is as smooth off the mound as on.

I am not the least bit afraid of one of the starting 5 going down.

I'm no expert, but he does look tall and skinny like McDowell.

He looks great in a Sox uniform.

Hank

harwar
03-15-2005, 03:19 PM
Yea,they were comparing him to mark prior.
Its rare that you hear so many positives about the White sox coming out of an espn broadcast.

Hank Kimball
03-15-2005, 03:22 PM
Steve Stone is good.


Hank

mealfred13
03-15-2005, 04:38 PM
Every time I see this kid pitch, I'm thinking they've GOT to somehow bring him up as a starter ASAP. He's got it. He should be pitching. Bringing him up early be damned, he knows how to win.

He was filthy in the win over the Angels today. I have yet to see him have a bad start, and what he called a bad start was 4 innings of no-run baseball.

LongLiveFisk
03-15-2005, 05:30 PM
For some reason, I really believe that if Fisk was catching McDowell in the playoffs, things would have been different.

Damn right. Personal bias in favor of Fisk aside (as obvious by my WSI name), I think he may have made a difference. If Jack was tipping his pitches I have to believe that Pudge would have had a much better chance of catching on to that than Karko. Pudge was very savvy with his pitching staff and could get the most out of them.

(Ah, hell, who am I kidding? I AM biased!) :bandance:

JermaineDye05
03-15-2005, 05:50 PM
Great idea for a nickname! I hope it catches on.:wink:

How bout the Big Mac?

screw McGwire he doesnt deserve it

Hangar18
03-15-2005, 06:01 PM
When Black Jack is dealing, the house always wins. :cool:

Heh heh .......

HawkISox
03-16-2005, 04:36 PM
Unless Contreras gets it together...He seems the weakest link to me right now. That being said, I would like to see the current staff for a month at least before Mac is brought up.

WhiteSoxFan84
03-16-2005, 04:39 PM
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.asp?sport=MLB&leaguenum=&id=8538


Mar. 15, 2005 - 9:53 pm et

Brandon McCarthy surrendered just a couple of unearned runs in five innings today in a win over the Angels.
Even throwing 89-91 mph as he did today, McCarthy has the ability to be a solid major league starter. Fantasy leaguers shouldn't get overly excited, especially since he'll be pitching in a hitter's park once he arrives later this season, but he's a very good prospect.

flo-B-flo
03-16-2005, 06:00 PM
Steve Stone is good. Yes I watched that interview. He is great. I hope he's on many more games over ESPN. I might even watch a team other than the SOX just to hear his comments.

FightingBillini
03-16-2005, 06:29 PM
I got to plead ignorance on this, but what pitches does McCarthy have? I think I heard somewhere that he only has 3 pitches. I don't know if that is true, but if it is, I don't want him coming to the majors this year. Major league starting pitchers need AT LEAST 4 pitches, preferably five. I have thought for a while that Neil Cotts will be a good major league starter someday. However, he only has 3 pitches. He should have been learning a few more pitches in the minors last year instead of throwing napalm in our bullpen.

SluggersAway
03-16-2005, 07:54 PM
I got to plead ignorance on this, but what pitches does McCarthy have? I think I heard somewhere that he only has 3 pitches. I don't know if that is true, but if it is, I don't want him coming to the majors this year. Major league starting pitchers need AT LEAST 4 pitches, preferably five.

He does only have three: fastball, curve, and a change-up that he said after the Texas win was a "pitch in development and a pitch [he] still wasn't comfortable with."

I like how he looks, but I don't think we should rush into anything and bring him up this second. Let's not have all this hype go to his head, he looks good when he is hungry so let's keep it that way.

maurice
03-16-2005, 08:26 PM
He does only have three: fastball, curve, and a change-up

Right. He may develop a sinker or slider/cutter in the future but really doesn't need to add any more pitches. Three good pitches are plenty, especially when you consider his pin-point control.

FightingBillini
03-16-2005, 09:28 PM
Right. He may develop a sinker or slider/cutter in the future but really doesn't need to add any more pitches. Three good pitches are plenty, especially when you consider his pin-point control.

Name me one successful strating pitcher today who only has three pitches. BMac NEEDS to learn 1 or 2 more pitches. Three good pitches aren't "plenty". If he is so good now with just three pitches, imagine how good he will be if he learns two more.

Knucksie
03-17-2005, 09:32 AM
I got to plead ignorance on this, but what pitches does McCarthy have? I think I heard somewhere that he only has 3 pitches. I don't know if that is true, but if it is, I don't want him coming to the majors this year. Major league starting pitchers need AT LEAST 4 pitches, preferably five. I have thought for a while that Neil Cotts will be a good major league starter someday. However, he only has 3 pitches. He should have been learning a few more pitches in the minors last year instead of throwing napalm in our bullpen.

I believe there are plenty of guys that can get bye with three quality pitches. Problem with McCarthy (If there is one) is that he doesn't have three quality pitches. He only has two and another that he's learning. On the positive side for B-Mac, from what I've seen, he is very adept at changing speeds and obviously hits locations. His two pitches can take on many different looks because he can take a little off and spot them as he wants. He also is smart enough to work fast and get ahead of hitters.

BTW, Cotts problem with being ineffective as a starter has more to due with his lack of control than the quality and or number of pitches he throws. Getting behind hitters will cost you at the major league level. When you walk a guy, then get behind on the next, like Cotts does constantly, they will eat you up. Over the course of a game, they always catch up to you. IMO, that's why Cotts is in the pen. He has great stuff and a very lively arm, he just lacks command of his arsenal.

Ol' No. 2
03-17-2005, 09:53 AM
I believe there are plenty of guys that can get bye with three quality pitches. Problem with McCarthy (If there is one) is that he doesn't have three quality pitches. He only has two and another that he's learning. On the positive side for B-Mac, from what I've seen, he is very adept at changing speeds and obviously hits locations. His two pitches can take on many different looks because he can take a little off and spot them as he wants. He also is smart enough to work fast and get ahead of hitters.

BTW, Cotts problem with being ineffective as a starter has more to due with his lack of control than the quality and or number of pitches he throws. Getting behind hitters will cost you at the major league level. When you walk a guy, then get behind on the next, like Cotts does constantly, they will eat you up. Over the course of a game, they always catch up to you. IMO, that's why Cotts is in the pen. He has great stuff and a very lively arm, he just lacks command of his arsenal.Three pitches may be enough, depending on what they are. A fastball is really more than one pitch. You can throw a 4-seamer or a 2-seamer. You can vary the location. You can take a little off of it to keep hitters off balance. Add in what appears to be an outstanding curve that he can throw for strikes and a changeup (still in development), and that's plenty to start out with. Longer term he'd need to learn a 4th pitch, but plenty of pitchers start out at the major league level with three and add a 4th later.

Knucksie
03-17-2005, 10:22 AM
Three pitches may be enough, depending on what they are. A fastball is really more than one pitch. You can throw a 4-seamer or a 2-seamer. You can vary the location. You can take a little off of it to keep hitters off balance. Add in what appears to be an outstanding curve that he can throw for strikes and a changeup (still in development), and that's plenty to start out with. Longer term he'd need to learn a 4th pitch, but plenty of pitchers start out at the major league level with three and add a 4th later.

That's my point. I would contend that there aren't that many SP with 5 quality pitches. Many have two or three really good pitches that they can do alot with and, maybe, a couple of pitches that are nothing more than show-me pitches. Show-me pitches are not out pitches. They are waste pitches to help set up an out pitch and/or keep a hitter off balance.

There are so many variables to the equation. Some guys can throw a fastball 4 seem, 2 seem, inside, outside, up, down, change arm angles, take a little off, vary their pace on the mound, etc. No to mention those that really understand the game and can play pyschological warfare on the mound and get inside a hitters head. Key component is not to give the hitter what hes looking for. It doesn't have to be a different pitch. How about throwing away to a dead pull hitter then jamming him inside once he is enticed to dive out in front of the plate. THAT is what pitching is all about.

I recall a young Randy Johnson. He has great stuff. In his early years, he was known to not always have the best command. He could get a little wild at times. The thought he could put into a hitters head of an outof control 100 mph heater... Need I say more?

WhiteSoxFan84
03-17-2005, 11:25 AM
Kerry Wood only has 3 pitches. Fastball, curveball, and the fasterball. Bad example.....

maurice
03-17-2005, 11:39 AM
Power pitchers frequently get by with only two pitches -- usually a hard fastball and some kind of breaking pitch. Since BMac doesn't throw 97, the changeup he's developing will come in handy. Coop probably will also work with him on a two-seamer and a cutter, but that'll be like frosting on the cake.

Cotts problem with being ineffective as a starter has more to due with his lack of control than the quality and or number of pitches he throws.

I agree. When Cotts throws his fastball for strikes, he gets guys out. However, Cotts would definitely benefit from having three good pitches.

Fake Chet Lemon
03-17-2005, 09:18 PM
D. Hermanson will probably be the next starter should one of ours need to be replaced early in the season.

soxfanforlife28
03-17-2005, 09:33 PM
The next Jack McDowell? Does that mean he will suck in the playoffs, flip off Yankees fan, play in a crappy band and grow out his hair so he looks like a clown?

Needless to say, I still haven't gotten over Jack's pathetic pitching in the '93 playoffs.Hahahahahahhaha!

California Sox
03-18-2005, 09:11 AM
[QUOTE=maurice]Since BMac doesn't throw 97, the changeup he's developing will come in handy. Coop probably will also work with him on a two-seamer and a cutter, but that'll be like frosting on the cake.[QUOTE]

B-mac already throws a two-seamer.

maurice
03-18-2005, 01:20 PM
Not according to BMac.

He obviously knows how to throw a two-seamer, but he says he hasn't worked it into games yet.