PDA

View Full Version : Could the Reds/Giants help bring DH to NL?


WhiteSoxFan84
03-10-2005, 01:19 PM
I know that a lot of you are completely against having a DH in both leagues. After the Giants and Reds both requested to be able to use a DH during their spring training home games, and were given permission to do so, I had a few things pop up in my mind.

First of all, has this ever happened before? During spring training, do any of you remember a NL team asking for and/or given permission to use the DH during home games?

Second, with all the scrutiny Bud Selig has been facing since the day he took over as MLB commissioner (most of it he deserves) and considering the fact that Selig will make significant changes to the game of baseball to try to fix his image (adding the Wild Card & making the All-Star game "count"), adding the DH to both leagues would be a move he would make. Another question I have is this; if he wants to add the DH to the NL, does he need anyone's permission or can he do it himself?

Just wanted to throw it out there and see if it's happened before and if you think Selig will ever make this change.

FightingBillini
03-10-2005, 01:24 PM
I believe the owners, at least the NL owners, would have to approve of this change. I don't think it will ever happen. I wouldn't be shocked if the DH is eliminated in the next 50 years, but I doubt it will ever make its way to the NL. The NL owners mostly hate it, claiming they traditional baseball. They market their teams that way, especially in cities or areas with teams in each league. The AL owners might not want it in the NL either, because they can claim their league is more exciting, powerpacked, and high scoring.

Frater Perdurabo
03-10-2005, 01:39 PM
I believe the owners, at least the NL owners, would have to approve of this change. I don't think it will ever happen. I wouldn't be shocked if the DH is eliminated in the next 50 years, but I doubt it will ever make its way to the NL. The NL owners mostly hate it, claiming they traditional baseball. They market their teams that way, especially in cities or areas with teams in each league. The AL owners might not want it in the NL either, because they can claim their league is more exciting, powerpacked, and high scoring.

IMHO, many of the owners aren't as interested in baseball tradition as they are concerned about the bottom line. Methinks NL owners would prefer to not have to pay a big bat who can't play the field very well - and that if AL owners had their preference, they too would want to eliminate it.

WhiteSoxFan84
03-10-2005, 01:43 PM
IMHO, many of the owners aren't as interested in baseball tradition as they are concerned about the bottom line. Methinks NL owners would prefer to not have to pay a big bat who can't play the field very well - and that if AL owners had their preference, they too would want to eliminate it.

That's a great point, but look at it the other way, the player's union would see this as a chance to create more jobs for their clients. Being in an era where the players run the show, I think the MLBPA would have the advantage in these talks if they were to ever take place.

Palehose13
03-10-2005, 01:47 PM
I believe the owners, at least the NL owners, would have to approve of this change. I don't think it will ever happen. I wouldn't be shocked if the DH is eliminated in the next 50 years, but I doubt it will ever make its way to the NL. The NL owners mostly hate it, claiming they traditional baseball. They market their teams that way, especially in cities or areas with teams in each league. The AL owners might not want it in the NL either, because they can claim their league is more exciting, powerpacked, and high scoring.

:?: The Brewers aren't marketed that way in Milwaukee and I don't believe the cubs do either. What are you basing this claim on?

samram
03-10-2005, 01:54 PM
That's a great point, but look at it the other way, the player's union would see this as a chance to create more jobs for their clients. Being in an era where the players run the show, I think the MLBPA would have the advantage in these talks if they were to ever take place.

That only works if rosters are expanded. If they stay at 25, it's just replacing one guy with another.

FightingBillini
03-10-2005, 01:58 PM
:?: The Brewers aren't marketed that way in Milwaukee and I don't believe the cubs do either. What are you basing this claim on?

The Brewers don't need to be marketed that way, its a one horse town. As for the Cubs, they market the "traditional" Urinal, and that goes along with the tradition. They may not advertise explicitly that it is a more traditional product, but they must put it into a propaganda newsletter they send to all their minions. A couple of my friends are Flub fans, and they all cited the lack of DH as one of the reasons they became that way. They claimed that they like the game better and the strategy. I have encountered many who have said that. I do like the strategy involved, and I wouldn't mind the DH being eliminated (after Frank retires:D:), but in the mean time Im not complaining.

batmanZoSo
03-10-2005, 02:05 PM
I know that a lot of you are completely against having a DH in both leagues. After the Giants and Reds both requested to be able to use a DH during their spring training home games, and were given permission to do so, I had a few things pop up in my mind.

First of all, has this ever happened before? During spring training, do any of you remember a NL team asking for and/or given permission to use the DH during home games?

Second, with all the scrutiny Bud Selig has been facing since the day he took over as MLB commissioner (most of it he deserves) and considering the fact that Selig will make significant changes to the game of baseball to try to fix his image (adding the Wild Card & making the All-Star game "count"), adding the DH to both leagues would be a move he would make. Another question I have is this; if he wants to add the DH to the NL, does he need anyone's permission or can he do it himself?

Just wanted to throw it out there and see if it's happened before and if you think Selig will ever make this change.

I'm all for DH in both leagues. Pitchers batting against is pathetic and embarrassing. In my opinon, professional sports should always feature a matchup of world class competitors, not a comical mismatch such as an MLB pitcher striking out another pitcher who swings like a girl through a fastball up in the zone. Of course "purists" love to tout the supposed strategy that it brings (yeah, i.e. walking number 8 and striking out the opposing pitcher to get out of a jam).

Although realistically, I see it either staying as it is or the DH being eliminated all together.

mcfish
03-10-2005, 02:07 PM
I too am probably in the minority here in that I would like to see the DH in the NL. Pitchers batting is pointless and stupid. It's boring to watch and it kills momentum in the games. It makes the end of NL lineups jokes. The extra "strategy" doesn't even come into play in many games, and when it does it screws with the outcomes of games and has them decided not by the best players on the respective teams, but by who has the better bench. The point of the game to me has always been to put your best 9 out there and see who wins, so it's annoying when games are won/lost by backups.

Either way, it will not change any time soon, so I'll just continue to not watch Cubs games.

samram
03-10-2005, 02:16 PM
I'm all for DH in both leagues. Pitchers batting against is pathetic and embarrassing. In my opinon, professional sports should always feature a matchup of world class competitors, not a comical mismatch such as an MLB pitcher striking out another pitcher who swings like a girl through a fastball up in the zone. Of course "purists" love to tout the supposed strategy that it brings (yeah, i.e. walking number 8 and striking out the opposing pitcher to get out of a jam).

Although realistically, I see it either staying as it is or the DH being eliminated all together.

My thoughts exactly. I'm a fan of the DH and really can't stand to watch pitchers flail about for 90 seconds and then sit down. The strategy thing is also overblown. It's hardly rocket science to walk the 8 hitter to strike out the pitcher, nor is it rocket science to make a double switch (My god, how do I keep track of nine people?!).

FightingBillini
03-10-2005, 02:20 PM
It's hardly rocket science to walk the 8 hitter to strike out the pitcher, nor is it rocket science to make a double switch (My god, how do I keep track of nine people?!).

Tell that to Dusty Baker:D:. I think he just sent up his #3 hitter to bat 7th again.

StillMissOzzie
03-10-2005, 02:40 PM
That only works if rosters are expanded. If they stay at 25, it's just replacing one guy with another.

Not creating MORE jobs, but it would be putting a $4M - $8M salary in the place of some 25th man earning the MLB minimum of $318K.

The ONLY strategy differential, IMHO, is when a manager has to decide whether or not to pinch hit for a pitcher who's cruising but losing in the later innings. Mastering the double-switch is not rocket science, and others have pointed out the deep thought required to walk the #8 to pitch to another pitcher.

I would like to see all of MLB play with the same rules, if only to remove the inherent disadvantage the AL faces when they play interleague games in NL parks under the current rules. I would prefer it to be no DH for either side, but I also wouldn't mind DH for everyone. Why one side can't convince the other side is beyond me.

SMO
:gulp:

samram
03-10-2005, 02:54 PM
Not creating MORE jobs, but it would be putting a $4M - $8M salary in the place of some 25th man earning the MLB minimum of $318K.


SMO
:gulp:

I see your point, but you're assuming there's 14 guys out there worth that amount that aren't getting that now. I don't know how many Carl Everetts are around who are earning big money, but aren't everyday players. Teams like the Reds or Pirates would probably just bump their best bench player into the DH role (or make him take the place of a bad defensive player who would become the DH- either way, it would be done from within) and add another young pitcher to the roster since they wouldn't need as many pinch hitters.

Chisox003
03-10-2005, 03:24 PM
I like it exactly how it is now....Having a DH in the AL is the dividing line between the 2 leagues, the biggest difference

And, if Selig put the DH in the NL, I really think hed be brutally murdered by the "purists"....IMO, Id hate having an NL DH, its what makes each league unique

jake27
03-10-2005, 05:16 PM
i like it how it is now (AL has DH, NL doesnt) but its a good idea in spring training to use the DH in both leagues. insted of having the pitcher bat, you can have a young prospect bat that you want to get in more at bats, pitchers batting in spring training is the least priority managers have.

NonetheLoaiza
03-10-2005, 06:01 PM
I am all for the DH going away as soon as Frank retires, but not a moment before that. I like the extra strategy it puts in the game.

mdep524
03-10-2005, 06:06 PM
i like it how it is now (AL has DH, NL doesnt) but its a good idea in spring training to use the DH in both leagues. insted of having the pitcher bat, you can have a young prospect bat that you want to get in more at bats, pitchers batting in spring training is the least priority managers have.
I like it the way it is now also. DH in the AL, no DH in the NL. Two leagues with different rules adds uniqueness to the game of baseball that no other sport can claim. Also, I've always thought they should have a DH in more spring training games too, for the same reason you say.

ND_Sox_Fan
03-10-2005, 06:50 PM
I am all for the DH going away as soon as Frank retires, but not a moment before that. I like the extra strategy it puts in the game.

I am all for the DH in both leagues. The different rules really create a huge disadvantage to AL teams that are built to play 140+ games one way, and then during interleague and WS play they have to throw their pitchers out there. AL teams spend big money on the DH position that could be spent on a better position player - a luxury NL teams have in those games. It is no big deal for NL teams to put their next best player in the DH slot during those games.

Furthermore, I would love to see it happen today so that Frank can play in interleague games so our line-up doesn't look like the Pirates' when he is out.