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View Full Version : Levine on Borchard's stock + Harris to Milwaukee?


WhiteSoxFan84
03-09-2005, 09:23 PM
On the way home a few minutes ago I heard Bruce Levine talking about Joe Borchard. He said he was at the game when Borchard hit 2 home runs and shortly after his second home run an "assisant GM for a NL Central ballclub" got on the phone with his GM and said, "you won't believe it, he just hit another one, this time to the opposite field".

Levine also said that the Milwaukee Brewers are very interested in Willie Harris. Levine said that he would like the Sox to go after Wes Helms because they need a right-handed backup 3B/SS.

A follow-up on this post; I'm pretty sure that the NL Central ballclub he mentioned is probably the Pittsburgh Pirates. He didn't mention any names but it's been made obvious that the Pirates have been in the market for a power hitting OF for a while.

soxwon
03-09-2005, 09:28 PM
I really dont want to lose Borchard, i think he can be an awesome power hitter.

Watch we trade him and he's a STAR!!!

maurice
03-09-2005, 09:33 PM
Levine also said that the Milwaukee Brewers are very interested in Willie Harris. Levine said that he would like the Sox to go after Wes Helms because they need a right-handed backup 3B/SS.

So Le-Vineline keeps saying this despite:
- the Brewer's GM saying that a Harris for Helms trade is utter nonsense
- the Brewer's GM saying he has had no contact with KW since the Lee trade
- KW's statement that the backup SS will come from within the Sox organization
- the fact that Helms can barely play 3B and could not possibly play SS
- the fact that Ozuna and Valdez (both righties and actual SSs) have played well thus far
- the fact that Harris was tried at SS in a B game and got rave reviews

Borchard for prospects would make sense. He's clearly not in the Sox plans at this point.

MisterB
03-09-2005, 09:37 PM
Levine also said that the Milwaukee Brewers are very interested in Willie Harris. Levine said that he would like the Sox to go after Wes Helms because they need a right-handed backup 3B/SS.

The only problem is Helms isn't a SS - he's a corner IF/corner OF. I have no idea why Levine's so fixated on Helms.

Banix12
03-09-2005, 09:43 PM
Bruce Levine has seriously finally lost his grip on reality. Helms playing SS?

I can fathom a team being interested in Borchard because of his raw power, but Helms playing SS? The brewers, a team with three second basemen being interested in Harris?

Seriously, what is Levine smoking, because I want some..

Clembasbal
03-09-2005, 09:55 PM
I plain just don't like Bruuuuuuce. I just think somtimes he gets his info from idiots.

And his "overhearing a GM talk on a cell phone story" sounds very familiar...I just can't put my finger on it...anybody?

Flight #24
03-09-2005, 10:14 PM
On the way home a few minutes ago I heard Bruce Levine talking about Joe Borchard. He said he was at the game when Borchard hit 2 home runs and shortly after his second home run an "assisant GM for a NL Central ballclub" got on the phone with his GM and said, "you won't believe it, he just hit another one, this time to the opposite field".

Levine also said that the Milwaukee Brewers are very interested in Willie Harris. Levine said that he would like the Sox to go after Wes Helms because they need a right-handed backup 3B/SS.

A follow-up on this post; I'm pretty sure that the NL Central ballclub he mentioned is probably the Pittsburgh Pirates. He didn't mention any names but it's been made obvious that the Pirates have been in the market for a power hitting OF for a while.

I suppose I could live with a Borchard for Oliver Perez trade.......

Jjav829
03-09-2005, 10:18 PM
On the way home a few minutes ago I heard Bruce Levine talking about Joe Borchard. He said he was at the game when Borchard hit 2 home runs and shortly after his second home run an "assisant GM for a NL Central ballclub" got on the phone with his GM and said, "you won't believe it, he just hit another one, this time to the opposite field".

Levine also said that the Milwaukee Brewers are very interested in Willie Harris. Levine said that he would like the Sox to go after Wes Helms because they need a right-handed backup 3B/SS.

A follow-up on this post; I'm pretty sure that the NL Central ballclub he mentioned is probably the Pittsburgh Pirates. He didn't mention any names but it's been made obvious that the Pirates have been in the market for a power hitting OF for a while.

I thought about the Pirates, too. They have Lawton and Bay locked in at the corners, but they're lacking a center fielder. Whether they'd consider Borchard in center, I don't know. But I do know they've thought about moving Bay to center which would open up a spot for Borchard. I don't know that Joe Borchard is enough to make them move their best player to a new position though. I'd imagine that Kenny would be looking at Mackowiak on the Pirates.

Banix12
03-09-2005, 10:30 PM
I thought about the Pirates, too. They have Lawton and Bay locked in at the corners, but they're lacking a center fielder. Whether they'd consider Borchard in center, I don't know. But I do know they've thought about moving Bay to center which would open up a spot for Borchard. I don't know that Joe Borchard is enough to make them move their best player to a new position though. I'd imagine that Kenny would be looking at Mackowiak on the Pirates.

The pirates have been reportedly shopping Craig Wilson, who is currently playing the other outfield spot I think, saying he's better suited to be a DH, but I doubt a Craig Wilson for Borchard would be a deal the pirates would make. We would have to give way more than Borchard and it's not like we have an everyday spot for him.

I still contend that Levine is pulling names and teams out of a hat and calling that his "source"

Slats
03-09-2005, 10:39 PM
I'd be really suprised if Borchard's in a sox uniform at the beginning of the season.

JB98
03-09-2005, 10:44 PM
I'd be really suprised if Borchard's in a sox uniform at the beginning of the season.

That's because he'll be in a Charlotte uniform.

I think Borchie Boy's trade value is zilch.

Jjav829
03-09-2005, 11:00 PM
The pirates have been reportedly shopping Craig Wilson, who is currently playing the other outfield spot I think, saying he's better suited to be a DH, but I doubt a Craig Wilson for Borchard would be a deal the pirates would make. We would have to give way more than Borchard and it's not like we have an everyday spot for him.

I still contend that Levine is pulling names and teams out of a hat and calling that his "source"

Wilson is actually their everyday first baseman at this point. I'd be surprised if they are shopping him right now, unless it is in a deal for a centerfielder. Like you said, Borchard wouldn't be enough to get that done and frankly, we don't need Wilson at this point. Wilson seems more like a possible mid-season trade for some team needing a power boost.

WhiteSoxFan84
03-09-2005, 11:10 PM
So Le-Vineline keeps saying this despite:
- the Brewer's GM saying that a Harris for Helms trade is utter nonsense
- the Brewer's GM saying he has had no contact with KW since the Lee trade
- KW's statement that the backup SS will come from within the Sox organization
- the fact that Helms can barely play 3B and could not possibly play SS
- the fact that Ozuna and Valdez (both righties and actual SSs) have played well thus far
- the fact that Harris was tried at SS in a B game and got rave reviews

Borchard for prospects would make sense. He's clearly not in the Sox plans at this point.

I love Pablo Ozuna and Wilson Valdez. We'll see what KW has up his sleeve.

Jjav829
03-09-2005, 11:26 PM
I love Pablo Ozuna and Wilson Valdez. We'll see what KW has up his sleeve.

I actually think we'll be fine with either of these guys. There are not very many good utility infielders around, and the good ones probably aren't available in a trade. Valdez/Ozuna are about as good as any available utility infielder and they won't cost us a prospect.

Randar68
03-09-2005, 11:41 PM
I'd be really suprised if Borchard's in a sox uniform at the beginning of the season.

*****! Slots! I worked at a Crafty Beaver when I was in HS... People never believed that was actually the name of the place. I called it the "Crusty Beaver"... LOL!

Randar68
03-09-2005, 11:44 PM
I think Borchie Boy's trade value is zilch.

I don't know. But in what I've seen of him so far on TV, his swing is shorter than I remember. I'm not the only one who has noticed and I wonder if a scout or two has taken notice and are pushing for a deal for him.

OF is obviously the organizational strength. Sweeney looks great, took an inner-half breaking ball well over the wall. Anderson looks good, Chris Young, and my surpise of ST to this point, been pretty darn impressed with Jerry Owens (although he jumps at the ball and opens early for my tastes)...

MUsoxfan
03-09-2005, 11:48 PM
I really dont want to lose Borchard, i think he can be an awesome power hitter.

Watch we trade him and he's a STAR!!!

I imagine you'll be the guy making a thread about every HR he hits in another team's uniform, much like there will be others doing the same thing for future HOF'er Jeremy Reed. The fact is that LTP has done very little for the Sox other than running team B.A. into the ground. IF KW can pull something amazing off, he'll be off our hands and can be a liabilty for some other team.

jabrch
03-09-2005, 11:53 PM
Borchard for Mike Gonzalez?

WhiteSoxFan84
03-09-2005, 11:55 PM
Borchard for Mike Gonzalez?

so scary you mention him minutes after i pick him up on my fantasy team

the kid had a 1.25 ERA and threw 41 innings

he's projected to be there closer this year

Jjav829
03-09-2005, 11:56 PM
Borchard for Mike Gonzalez?

Pittsburgh couldn't reach an agreement on a deal for Eric Byrnes because they didn't want to part with Mike Gonzalez. There's zero chance of them trading him for Borchard.

jabrch
03-09-2005, 11:59 PM
so scary you mention him minutes after i pick him up on my fantasy team

the kid had a 1.25 ERA and threw 41 innings

he's projected to be there closer this year

No - Joey Table is the closer in Pittsburgh this year. But Gonzalez is a NASTY left handed setup guy. I'd give pitts Borch and Cotts for Gonzalez. If we had Marte and Gonzalez - that would rock. I'd also take Ty Wigginton off their hands as a backup IF.

jabrch
03-10-2005, 12:00 AM
Pittsburgh couldn't reach an agreement on a deal for Eric Byrnes because they didn't want to part with Mike Gonzalez. There's zero chance of them trading him for Borchard.

You know that...and I know that...but can't we dream? This is the same Pittsburgh team that traded Aramis Ramirez for Bobby Hill, right? (You are right - they aren't giving up Gonzalez. I should have rightfully put that in deep pink)

The other problem with the Pittsburgh/Oakland deal is that nobody wanted to pay Byrnes' salary. Pitts wanted Oakland to pay him, Beane wanted Pitt to do it. We actually have more $ to spend than either of those teams - not that it would be enough to get Gonzalez...

WhiteSoxFan84
03-10-2005, 12:22 AM
You know that...and I know that...but can't we dream? This is the same Pittsburgh team that traded Aramis Ramirez for Bobby Hill, right? (You are right - they aren't giving up Gonzalez. I should have rightfully put that in deep pink)

The other problem with the Pittsburgh/Oakland deal is that nobody wanted to pay Byrnes' salary. Pitts wanted Oakland to pay him, Beane wanted Pitt to do it. We actually have more $ to spend than either of those teams - not that it would be enough to get Gonzalez...

How'd we go from a UTIL INF to Mike Gonzalez? lol

:hawk "I looooooveee WSI"

DaleJRFan
03-10-2005, 12:49 AM
I suppose I could live with a Borchard for Oliver Perez trade.......

Damn you, you stole my line! If I'm KW, I don't accept anything less. All JoeB needs is another year of minor league seasoning.

SoxxoS
03-10-2005, 01:29 AM
Levine-line is slowing declining to ChiSoxTony levels...

jabrch
03-10-2005, 08:12 AM
How'd we go from a UTIL INF to Mike Gonzalez? lol

:hawk "I looooooveee WSI"


If we had a nasty lefty like Gonzalez, along with Marte....whew...

Sure - we need a UI. But there should be someone available to fill that role. If we are trading Borch, and not sending him back to the minors, I'd like to get someone who may have more upside for us.

Uncle_Patrick
03-10-2005, 08:16 AM
Levine-line is slowing declining to ChiSoxTony levels...

Maybe ChiSoxTony is his source.

veeter
03-10-2005, 08:52 AM
A Levine statement: "The Cubs are building a team that is going to rely on contact and on base percentage."- Comcast sportsnet approx. 2/28. He's right, Patterson, Burnitz, Lee and Hairston are all contact hitters. Bruce Levine knows nothing.

Brian26
03-10-2005, 09:14 AM
Pittsburgh is seriously considering moving Bay to centerfield, so Joe Borchard in leftfield for them (or LTP in right and Lawton in left) makes sense, I guess. I'm not sure who the Pirates really have to help us out. They wouldn't be crazy enough to want to trade us Jack Wilson, would they?

1917
03-10-2005, 09:26 AM
Wilson is actually their everyday first baseman at this point. I'd be surprised if they are shopping him right now, unless it is in a deal for a centerfielder. Like you said, Borchard wouldn't be enough to get that done and frankly, we don't need Wilson at this point. Wilson seems more like a possible mid-season trade for some team needing a power boost.

I think Daryl Ward is the 1st baseman, Wilson I think is in right and the backup catcher. But they won't part with him for Joe. No way. Craig Wilson is a solid player...had him on my fantasy team qualified for catcher) and he had some real big games

gosox41
03-10-2005, 09:50 AM
I suppose I could live with a Borchard for Oliver Perez trade.......

I was just thinking that.

Seriously, though, how much trade value do people think Joe has? And before any sarcastically says 'whatever the market bears' take it one step further.

If you're KW, what would make it worth his while to trade Joe?



Bob

SoxFanTillDeath
03-10-2005, 09:52 AM
I doubt Brian Anderson or Ryan Sweeney will be starting the year at AAA, and since Borchard has another option left, I say send him down and let him play AAA for a few months. If he really has shortened his swing like everyone says, (and he does look good now), then his stock is bound to rise from the basement that it is in right now. In June we will have more of an idea what this team needs (3B, LH reliever, etc.) and we can trade borchard then for more than we could get for him now. Then we could call up Anderson or Sweeney or both to play in AAA for half a year, putting them on track to make the team in 2006.

I know that Borchard's stock is a little better right now than it has been for a while, but going from 0.1 to 0.5 on a scale of 1-10 isn't enough to trade him away. We'd get absolutely nothing for him right now, so sending him down can only improve his stock.

Spicoli
03-10-2005, 10:01 AM
Say no to Helms!


Wes Helms went 0-for-2 today to drop to 1-for-14 this spring.

Flight #24
03-10-2005, 10:09 AM
I was just thinking that.

Seriously, though, how much trade value do people think Joe has? And before any sarcastically says 'whatever the market bears' take it one step further.

If you're KW, what would make it worth his while to trade Joe?



Bob

Good question. I think at this point, Joe's all upside, not much current production. But the team doesn't have a ton of holes right now. I wouldn't do Joe for a utility IF, but I might for a solid 3B with less upside, ala Mackowiak. Or I'd do it for a player at another position with similar upside.

But IMO right now, this team has enough "steady" guys. No trading Joe for a Timo Perez type of guy, even if he's a utility IF or 3B.

Tekijawa
03-10-2005, 10:19 AM
I suppose I could live with a Borchard for Oliver Perez trade.......

I've seen the Pirates Trade more for less!

SOXintheBURGH
03-10-2005, 11:01 AM
Good question. I think at this point, Joe's all upside, not much current production. But the team doesn't have a ton of holes right now. I wouldn't do Joe for a utility IF, but I might for a solid 3B with less upside, ala Mackowiak. Or I'd do it for a player at another position with similar upside.

But IMO right now, this team has enough "steady" guys. No trading Joe for a Timo Perez type of guy, even if he's a utility IF or 3B.

The Pirates fan in me would be sad to see Rob go, but since he would go to the Sox I'm all for it. Besides, the Sox owe the Bucs one for the Todd Ritchie trade. Borchard in CF at PNC Park just doesn't feel right though.:(:

Brian26
03-10-2005, 11:51 AM
Mackowiak

I believe KW inquired about his availablity last summer, around the time the Catalanatto rumors started. Mackowiak is a Cub killer and a grinder...may not be a bad pickup.

WhiteSoxFan84
03-10-2005, 11:56 AM
I've seen the Pirates Trade more for less!

Can you say Ramirez, Lofton, and co. for Bobby Hill and some other crap?

Only difference is that Perez is still young and won't be gettin serious dough for a while. Ramirez, at the point, was about to become a FA and make over $6,000,000.

The scary thing is the Pirates ripped us off before (Wells, Fogg, Lowe for Ritchie). Maybe it's time for them to pay us back?

Jon Garland, Joe Borchard, Jamie Burke, and Felix Diaz to the Pirates for Oliver Perez and a utility infielder or another pitcher?

rmusacch
03-10-2005, 12:05 PM
I actually think we'll be fine with either of these guys. There are not very many good utility infielders around, and the good ones probably aren't available in a trade. Valdez/Ozuna are about as good as any available utility infielder and they won't cost us a prospect.

What do you base the fact that Valdez and Osuna are just as good as any other utility infielder?

Ol' No. 2
03-10-2005, 12:13 PM
Can you say Ramirez, Lofton, and co. for Bobby Hill and some other crap?

Only difference is that Perez is still young and won't be gettin serious dough for a while. Ramirez, at the point, was about to become a FA and make over $6,000,000.

The scary thing is the Pirates ripped us off before (Wells, Fogg, Lowe for Ritchie). Maybe it's time for them to pay us back?

Jon Garland, Joe Borchard, Jamie Burke, and Felix Diaz to the Pirates for Oliver Perez and a utility infielder or another pitcher?We got Marte from them for Matt Guerrier. I think we're even.

Tekijawa
03-10-2005, 12:14 PM
We got Marte from them for Matt Guerrier. I think we're even.

They got Bobby Bonilla from us... we're still down

Jjav829
03-10-2005, 12:16 PM
What do you base the fact that Valdez and Osuna are just as good as any other utility infielder?

I didn't say as good as any other utility infielder. I said they are as good as any other available utility infielder. In other words, if you're looking for someone like say a Keith Ginter or a Ryan Freel, you probably won't get them without overpaying. The guys you can get cheaply aren't really much better than Valdez/Ozuna.

WhiteSoxFan84
03-10-2005, 12:22 PM
What do you base the fact that Valdez and Osuna are just as good as any other utility infielder?

I don't know what JJav's reasons are but I believe the fact that Valdez is a solid prospect who might get a chance to start if he was somewhere else makes him a solid UTL INF. Now is he proven? No, of course not.

Looking at Ozuna's career stats, they almost compile to a UTL INF's stats for a single season. He has 111 career ABs, .297 BA, .333 OBP, 5 SB (1 CS). If he spends a whole year with the team as a backup and posts a .297 BA, I think we can call him a good UTL man.

WhiteSoxFan84
03-10-2005, 12:23 PM
We got Marte from them for Matt Guerrier. I think we're even.

Am I the only one who's STILL not sold on Marte?

Mohoney
03-10-2005, 12:27 PM
Ryan Freel

If we got this guy, we would be absolutely stacked.

beck72
03-10-2005, 12:29 PM
Pittsburgh is seriously considering moving Bay to centerfield, so Joe Borchard in leftfield for them (or LTP in right and Lawton in left) makes sense, I guess. I'm not sure who the Pirates really have to help us out. They wouldn't be crazy enough to want to trade us Jack Wilson, would they?
Either Freddy Sanchez or Bobby Hill won't make Pitt's 25 man roster. Sanchez plays 3b, SS and 2b. Hill plays 3b and 2b.

Flight #24
03-10-2005, 12:30 PM
If we got this guy, we would be absolutely stacked.

Not a great fit, we need power from 3B. With Pods & Iguchi/Harris, I think we have enough speed guys that hopefully can put up a decent OBP. Crede's a 20+HR guy in a bad year, if we're going to replace him, we can' do it at the expense of the HRs. Not the way the team is currently constructed.

That said - I love Freel's game. It's just not a good fit for the Sox. Kind of like adding a guy like Dye to the 03-04 team wouldn't have been a good fit either.

Randar68
03-10-2005, 12:33 PM
I doubt Brian Anderson or Ryan Sweeney will be starting the year at AAA

Anderson will be the opening day CF'er in Charlotte, FYI. Mike Spidale and Borch will probably be in LF and RF respectively.

Brice and Sweeney will be in AA, with possibly Jerry Owens(may start at W-S in same OF as Chris Young?) in CF and Rogo at 1B, Fields at 3B, Lopez at SS/2b.

MRKARNO
03-10-2005, 01:08 PM
Ryan Freel

Too bad the last thing the Reds need is another outfielder...

MRKARNO
03-10-2005, 01:10 PM
I really doubt the Pirates would trade Jack Wilson, Oliver Perez, Mike Gonzalez or Jason Bay. Everyone else might be up for grabs though, but then again, you never know with the Pirates...

Jjav829
03-10-2005, 01:23 PM
Too bad the last thing the Reds need is another outfielder...

I never said they'd have interest in Borchard. Freel was just my example of a utility infielder that is better than our other choices but isn't available. Or at least, isn't available without significantly overpaying.

MRKARNO
03-10-2005, 01:27 PM
I never said they'd have interest in Borchard. Freel was just my example of a utility infielder that is better than our other choices but isn't available. Or at least, isn't available without significantly overpaying.

I don't really mean that in a sarcastic sense to be quite honest. I have to say that I like Freel a lot and I think he could be pretty good in a full time role at third for the White Sox. He doesnt have power, but he has good on base skills and he can run, both things that would fit well with Ozzie's philosophy.

Jjav829
03-10-2005, 01:30 PM
I don't really mean that in a sarcastic sense to be quite honest. I have to say that I like Freel a lot and I think he could be pretty good in a full time role at third for the White Sox. He doesnt have power, but he has good on base skills and he can run, both things that would fit well with Ozzie's philosophy.

I'm a big fan as well. I would not have minded trading for him if we didn't land Iguchi. I'm not sure Freel's available though, and like I said, he'd probably cost too much. He definitely fits Ozzie and Kenny's grinder, speed and defense game mentality.

maurice
03-10-2005, 03:46 PM
Anderson will be the opening day CF'er in Charlotte, FYI.

That's correct. As I indicated in another thread, I got this information straight from the horse's mouth (though the soxtalk crew seems to think that Brian was lying for some reason).
:dunno:

DaleJRFan
03-10-2005, 03:51 PM
Anderson will be the opening day CF'er in Charlotte, FYI. Mike Spidale and Borch will probably be in LF and RF respectively.

Brice and Sweeney will be in AA, with possibly Jerry Owens(may start at W-S in same OF as Chris Young?) in CF and Rogo at 1B, Fields at 3B, Lopez at SS/2b.

The White Sox minor league system stinks!

Jamieboy
03-10-2005, 04:23 PM
Actually I heard Borchard was out of options.

Randar68
03-10-2005, 04:29 PM
The White Sox minor league system stinks!

Turning Escobar (picked up on waivers) into Jerry Owens, very good move, IMO...

gobears1987
03-10-2005, 04:33 PM
Borchard and Willie for Ben SHeets!!!

WhiteSoxFan84
03-10-2005, 09:33 PM
Actually I heard Borchard was out of options.

1 year left.

34 Inch Stick
03-11-2005, 08:33 AM
*****! Slots! I worked at a Crafty Beaver when I was in HS... !

I worked a few of those myself back in the day.

DaleJRFan
03-11-2005, 12:28 PM
1 year left.

Not one more year left, rather 1 more option left. Meaning, they can option him to AAA one more time... the second time, he goes on waivers. So, if they send him down in May, we can keep him no worries. If they need to send him down a second time, then he would need to clear waivers.

WhiteSoxFan84
03-11-2005, 12:36 PM
Not one more year left, rather 1 more option left. Meaning, they can option him to AAA one more time... the second time, he goes on waivers. So, if they send him down in May, we can keep him no worries. If they need to send him down a second time, then he would need to clear waivers.

You might be right. But according to Bruce LeVineLine; the Sox have 1 more year of OPTIONS left.

DaleJRFan
03-11-2005, 12:37 PM
You might be right. But according to Bruce LeVineLine; the Sox have 1 more year of OPTIONS left.

Ok, maybe I am mixing it up then... thanks for the correction.

Ol' No. 2
03-11-2005, 01:03 PM
You might be right. But according to Bruce LeVineLine; the Sox have 1 more year of OPTIONS left.That's the way it works. It goes by the number of years, not the number of times he's optioned.

DaleJRFan
03-11-2005, 01:05 PM
Speaking of optioning players to AAA, what ever happened to Kelly Dransfeldt? As I recall, he did fairly well when he was up last season. Sox need a utility guy, and he plays SS/2B. He's older and slow, but decent....