PDA

View Full Version : Frank's ankle swells during flying...


mjharrison72
03-08-2005, 11:26 AM
From today's Sun-Times:
Thomas was invited to the March 17 congressional hearing on the effectiveness of baseball's new steroid policy, but he doesn't feel he will be able to attend because of the effects flying would have on his ankle. Cabin pressure makes it swell the size of a grapefruit, he said.
My question is this: if he can't testify before Congress because of the effects of flying on his ankle, how is he going to take part in a season that has the team flying all over the country? Will it just be rough for him, or is this a situation where he will only be playing in home games or might be held out the first game after flying? Or is this just an excuse to not go testify? I, for one, want him to clear his name.

Palehose13
03-08-2005, 11:30 AM
I am hoping that this is a temporary conditiona nd with time will go away. They don't have to fly during ST (I don't think), so hopefully all will be good when he has to fly back north.

Ol' No. 2
03-08-2005, 11:37 AM
From today's Sun-Times:

My question is this: if he can't testify before Congress because of the effects of flying on his ankle, how is he going to take part in a season that has the team flying all over the country? Will it just be rough for him, or is this a situation where he will only be playing in home games or might be held out the first game after flying? Or is this just an excuse to not go testify? I, for one, want him to clear his name.I read this, too, but I don't understand it. I've never heard of an injured joint swelling as a result of flying. Has anyone else ever heard of this?

Flight #24
03-08-2005, 11:54 AM
I read this, too, but I don't understand it. I've never heard of an injured joint swelling as a result of flying. Has anyone else ever heard of this?

I believe it'snot so much flying as the change in presure during takeoff & landing (and depending on the length of flight - the time spent in a sitting position without moving around). Many people have swelling in their extremeties after flying. Some even get small blood clots, which is why they recommend getting up & walking around every hour or so ar at least flexing your knees & ankles during the flight.

I can easily see how that could get worsened if you have some sort of condition that makes the joint prone to swelling anyway. If Doc Beckett checks in, I'm sure he'd have a more definitive word.

Unregistered
03-08-2005, 11:58 AM
From today's Sun-Times:

My question is this: if he can't testify before Congress because of the effects of flying on his ankle, how is he going to take part in a season that has the team flying all over the country? Will it just be rough for him, or is this a situation where he will only be playing in home games or might be held out the first game after flying? Or is this just an excuse to not go testify? I, for one, want him to clear his name.I'm with Palehose13 - I think because Thomas still won't be 100% for a few more weeks and isn't fully healed, he doesn't want to take any risks until that point.

munchman33
03-08-2005, 12:25 PM
I read this, too, but I don't understand it. I've never heard of an injured joint swelling as a result of flying. Has anyone else ever heard of this?

I tore up my knee about five years ago and my knee still swells from prolonged sitting. Not like a grapefruit, but enough to notice. I'm sure he's telling the truth.

Tekijawa
03-08-2005, 12:33 PM
My guess is that this also could be a "I have better things to do than help you hunt witches" blow off... If you've ever seen any type of senate hearing, I'll watch them and Greenspan go back and forth, it's mostly BS chest thumping and partisan views about how they were right and someone else was wrong... If I were him I'd have no interest in going either. Very little if anything is ever accomplished by these types of hearings.

mjharrison72
03-08-2005, 12:53 PM
Interesting, though, you get a totally different idea from the Southtown article, which makes it sounds like Frank is looking forward to testifying and the ankle *might* mean he has to cancel...

linky (http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/081sd2.htm)

I assume this is something that's just uncomfortable, not dangerous, and he will just deal with it and it will dissipate during the season. But if that's the case, why would it keep him from testifying? Maybe something's going here, maybe not... I don't get it. :dunno:

Palehose13
03-08-2005, 01:15 PM
Interesting, though, you get a totally different idea from the Southtown article, which makes it sounds like Frank is looking forward to testifying and the ankle *might* mean he has to cancel...

linky (http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/081sd2.htm)

I assume this is something that's just uncomfortable, not dangerous, and he will just deal with it and it will dissipate during the season. But if that's the case, why would it keep him from testifying? Maybe something's going here, maybe not... I don't get it. :dunno:

Well, I'm having problems with my ankle at the moment and I know that my trainer wants me to try and avoid or keep down the swelling. I didn't break anything, so I am sure that Frank's condition is much more senstive Maybe swelling would cause increased pressure on the injured area (which I would assume is not a good thing). I am not at all in the medical profession, so this is pure speculation.

jenmcm76
03-08-2005, 01:42 PM
Frank's a big guy... Is a grapefruit really that much bigger than his normal ankle size? :tongue:

Jurr
03-08-2005, 02:11 PM
I know Dr. Beckett can elaborate more on this, but I have patients that have similar problems in their TMJ joints as well as their inner ears.

What's happening is that despite the fact an airplane's cabin has a degree of pressure control, the atmospheric pressure is still lower. So, something happens at the tiny blood vessel (capillary) level. We see a capillary pressure (it's called the interstitial pressure) drop, which causes your body to keep fluids (lymph) in your cellular spaces (instead of in your circulation). When the fluids aren't allowed to get up to the heart, they're kept in your tissues, and a great deal of fluid accumulates in an inflamed joint (there's already more fluid there than normal.) This causes the increased swelling.

I hope I explained that well.

Ol' No. 2
03-08-2005, 02:23 PM
I know Dr. Beckett can elaborate more on this, but I have patients that have similar problems in their TMJ joints as well as their inner ears.

What's happening is that despite the fact an airplane's cabin has a degree of pressure control, the atmospheric pressure is still lower. So, something happens at the tiny blood vessel (capillary) level. We see a capillary pressure (it's called the interstitial pressure) drop, which causes your body to keep fluids (lymph) in your cellular spaces (instead of in your circulation). When the fluids aren't allowed to get up to the heart, they're kept in your tissues, and a great deal of fluid accumulates in an inflamed joint (there's already more fluid there than normal.) This causes the increased swelling.

I hope I explained that well.Is this a real problem or just a temporary swelling? Wouldn't it go back down in a day or so?

Jurr
03-08-2005, 02:28 PM
Oh, it's just like any other type of swelling. For instance, when you put an acutely inflamed ankle in a tub of warm water, it's going to swell up like a balloon. It goes away after a couple of days, as the patient normally ices down and takes anti-inflammatories. Also, compression wraps on those inflamed areas can help keep that fluid from settling and causing further discomfort.

mweflen
03-08-2005, 04:04 PM
usually, a tight pressure bandage/wrap will keep down any swelling that occurs on planes (or in hyperbaric chambers, diving, etc.).

balke
03-08-2005, 04:35 PM
I'm not making an accusation for use by any means, Frank is clean as a whistle.

Anyone who comes within a stink of this hearing will be swarmed with media attention, speculation, a long season of steroid interviews, and negative criticism. I'm sure every agent is working their hardest to find a way to keep their players clear of this until served with subpoenas.

Jurr
03-08-2005, 04:48 PM
Exactly....that's what Frank's worried about. He's not sweating an ankle swelling up. He'd wrap it and it would be fine. He's not wanting to get anywhere near that steroid crap. I don't blame him, either.

guillen4life13
03-08-2005, 04:58 PM
Broken/bruised bones, from experience, don't take well to temperature and pressure changes.

I last broke my hand four years ago, and to this day in the transitional seasons (spring/fall), my hand gets extremely sore at the location of the fracture. It sometimes also gets sore after coming in from the cold or going outside in winter. These are both pressure and temperature changes.

This is just experience, and I'm no doctor, so take it at face value.

As far as Frank wanting/not wanting to go testify, here are my two cents: There is no reason at all for him to not go (outside of health) at this point. If he gets subpoenaed, it will make him look really suspicious in the eyes of the national (and, sadly, local) media. If he goes before getting subpoenaed, he will come off looking clean. In fact, he could use it to his advantage by accomodating the media and giving himself a much needed image booster in the national eye.

Flight #24
03-08-2005, 05:02 PM
As far as Frank wanting/not wanting to go testify, here are my two cents: There is no reason at all for him to not go (outside of health) at this point. If he gets subpoenaed, it will make him look really suspicious in the eyes of the national (and, sadly, local) media. If he goes before getting subpoenaed, he will come off looking clean. In fact, he could use it to his advantage by accomodating the media and giving himself a much needed image booster in the national eye.

One major reason why Frank won't/wouldn't go testify: MLBPA. IMO, they'll be putting significant pressure on all invitees not to attend due to "other commitments".

Ol' No. 2
03-08-2005, 05:13 PM
One major reason why Frank won't/wouldn't go testify: MLBPA. IMO, they'll be putting significant pressure on all invitees not to attend due to "other commitments".I agree, but that will backfire. There's just no way a congressional committee is going to take that lying down. Then they'll come back with subpoenas and the players will wind up looking worse. It's much better to go "voluntarily".

Paulwny
03-08-2005, 07:16 PM
Frank may not want to attend because he may not want to answer this type of question.

You've been a player on the Chicago White Sox Team since 1990, in all those years have you ever seen a member of your team taking steroids? If yes, who?

Ol' No. 2
03-08-2005, 07:19 PM
Frank may not want to attend because he may not want to answer this type of question.

You've been a player on the Chicago White Sox Team since 1990, in all those years have you ever seen a member of your team taking steroids? If yes, who?I hope they don't try to get players to snitch on other players. They'll ask players if they ever took anything and they'll ask if they ever saw any other players taking them, but asking them to finger specific players is over the line, IMO.

Paulwny
03-08-2005, 07:21 PM
I hope they don't try to get players to snitch on other players. They'll ask players if they ever took anything and they'll ask if they ever saw any other players taking them, but asking them to finger specific players is over the line, IMO.

This could be a witch hunt, typical congress.

RKMeibalane
03-08-2005, 07:26 PM
I have a solution to this problem. If Congress wants Frank to testify, why don't they just have a representative contact him and provide him with the questions? He could then videotape his responses to each question, and send the tape back to them.

Of course, this process would require creativity, and our government has none at the moment.

beckett21
03-08-2005, 07:33 PM
I know Dr. Beckett can elaborate more on this, but I have patients that have similar problems in their TMJ joints as well as their inner ears.

What's happening is that despite the fact an airplane's cabin has a degree of pressure control, the atmospheric pressure is still lower. So, something happens at the tiny blood vessel (capillary) level. We see a capillary pressure (it's called the interstitial pressure) drop, which causes your body to keep fluids (lymph) in your cellular spaces (instead of in your circulation). When the fluids aren't allowed to get up to the heart, they're kept in your tissues, and a great deal of fluid accumulates in an inflamed joint (there's already more fluid there than normal.) This causes the increased swelling.

I hope I explained that well.

This is as good of an explanation as I could provide. Well said. Nothing really to add from my end.

Any swelling as a result of flying would be temporary, but nonetheless would be uncomfortable and interfere with rehab. A certain amount of swelling is to be expected regardless, flying or no. An increase in activity will cause swelling, so it is something Frank will be dealing with for awhile as he recoups.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, compression devices such as ace wraps can control edema to a degree. Physical therapy is also very beneficial to reduce swelling/edema. After such an extended layoff, a certain amount of pain and swelling can be expected as Frank works his way back up to his normal activity level. Just because he is *healed* doesn't mean he can just jump back to midseason form, obviously.

Ol' No. 2
03-08-2005, 07:38 PM
This is as good of an explanation as I could provide. Well said. Nothing really to add from my end.

Any swelling as a result of flying would be temporary, but nonetheless would be uncomfortable and interfere with rehab. A certain amount of swelling is to be expected regardless, flying or no. An increase in activity will cause swelling, so it is something Frank will be dealing with for awhile as he recoups.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, compression devices such as ace wraps can control edema to a degree. Physical therapy is also very beneficial to reduce swelling/edema. After such an extended layoff, a certain amount of pain and swelling can be expected as Frank works his way back up to his normal activity level. Just because he is *healed* doesn't mean he can just jump back to midseason form, obviously.Thanks for the input. It sounds like this is not the kind of thing that's going to carry a lot of weight if he wants to get out of testifying. It's not like it's career-threatening or it's going to set him back a month. In a day or two the swelling will go down - probably less if he wraps it properly.

beckett21
03-08-2005, 07:45 PM
Thanks for the input. It sounds like this is not the kind of thing that's going to carry a lot of weight if he wants to get out of testifying. It's not like it's career-threatening or it's going to set him back a month. In a day or two the swelling will go down - probably less if he wraps it properly.

No problem.

It would be an inconvenience, not much more than that IMO. It's not unusual to see swelling for up to a year after some types of foot and ankle surgery, so it's something Frank will be dealing with for awhile in some capacity. Of course you never want to intentionally do something to make the swelling worse, but I can't imagine that one flight would make or break his season. JMO.

FJA
03-08-2005, 07:55 PM
As far as Frank wanting/not wanting to go testify, here are my two cents: There is no reason at all for him to not go (outside of health) at this point. If he gets subpoenaed, it will make him look really suspicious in the eyes of the national (and, sadly, local) media. If he goes before getting subpoenaed, he will come off looking clean. In fact, he could use it to his advantage by accomodating the media and giving himself a much needed image booster in the national eye.

May be a little late ... looks like subpoenas will be issued starting tomorrow. About midway through the story, it says Frank is due to receive one.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2008206

FJA
03-08-2005, 08:01 PM
I'd also like to add, I don't think this will be bad for Frank anyway. He's long been outspoken against steroids, and I'm guessing his testimony is requested on that account.

I'd look for them to be unrelenting on Canseco, Giambi, Sosa, McGwire, et al., though, as well as on baseball officials for presumably being complicit in all of this. This is an easy political issue - other than Canseco himself, who is actually for steroid use?

Chisox003
03-08-2005, 08:14 PM
I'd also like to add, I don't think this will be bad for Frank anyway. He's long been outspoken against steroids, and I'm guessing his testimony is requested on that account.

I'd look for them to be unrelenting on Canseco, Giambi, Sosa, McGwire, et al., though, as well as on baseball officials for presumably being complicit in all of this. This is an easy political issue - other than Canseco himself, who is actually for steroid use?

I agree. I think those already accused (not by Canseco) like Mcgwire, Sosa, Giambi etc. will be under some serious heat. Others, Frank, Palmeiro, Schilling..Are just recognizable faces that will be known nationally, and basically are there just for their names, IMO...At least thats what Im hoping

By the way, who else saw Frank yesterday jogging and hitting off the tee? He looks in ridiculous shape.....Absolutely Massive

pczarapa
03-08-2005, 08:53 PM
I read this, too, but I don't understand it. I've never heard of an injured joint swelling as a result of flying. Has anyone else ever heard of this?


I think it's a good excuse for him not to attend. Like Frank needs steroids anyway. He's been the same size since he was in college.

Lip Man 1
03-08-2005, 11:26 PM
Dan Rohn on the WGN-TV sports tonight said that Frank and Canseco were the only ones who said that they would be there and his inference was that this wasn't that big of a deal, just a formality to make sure people attend.

Wish I knew who was on the committee, I'd be happy to send them some questions for Sammy.

Lip

GoGoOzzie
03-08-2005, 11:28 PM
May be a little late ... looks like subpoenas will be issued starting tomorrow. About midway through the story, it says Frank is due to receive one.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2008206


I just read this from AOL News...


Curt Schilling, Sammy Sosa, Rafael Palmeiro and Frank Thomas also were asked last week to testify. Thus far, only Canseco and Thomas have said they were willing to appear.

Here's the link (it may only work if you have AOL)http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/sports/article.adp?id=20050308203109990052

shoota
03-09-2005, 04:58 AM
What's happening is that despite the fact an airplane's cabin has a degree of pressure control, the atmospheric pressure is still lower. So, something happens at the tiny blood vessel (capillary) level. We see a capillary pressure (it's called the interstitial pressure) drop, which causes your body to keep fluids (lymph) in your cellular spaces (instead of in your circulation). When the fluids aren't allowed to get up to the heart, they're kept in your tissues, and a great deal of fluid accumulates in an inflamed joint (there's already more fluid there than normal.) This causes the increased swelling.

I hope I explained that well.

Thomas's reasoning sounds like a bad excuse, but as you've explained, it's a legit concern. Grant Hill had the same problem during one of his comebacks from his broken ankle. It swelled and hurt his performances and sometimes stopped him from playing road games.

I fear this is not a temporary problem for Frank. I can see this hindering him all season--especially on the first games after flying (home and away), which is a significant number of games.
At least he's only a DH and doesn't have to perform like a basketball player does every night.

Cubbiesuck13
03-09-2005, 05:21 AM
I think it's a good excuse for him not to attend. Like Frank needs steroids anyway. He's been the same size since he was in college.

You should see his sisters and mother. That was his response to reporters when asked. Pretty funny.

I don't think any current player will be too outspoken about anything, remember they are part of the strongest union. I don't see them breaking ranks. You will hear "I'm glad we finally got testing in place this year" many times.

FJA
03-09-2005, 10:43 AM
Dan Rohn on the WGN-TV sports tonight said that Frank and Canseco were the only ones who said that they would be there and his inference was that this wasn't that big of a deal, just a formality to make sure people attend.

Wish I knew who was on the committee, I'd be happy to send them some questions for Sammy.

Lip

The Committee on Government Reform is conducting a full hearing, which is somewhat surprising since they have a subcommittee on drug policy. Nonetheless, it's a full hearing. Here's the committee's Web site:

http://reform.house.gov/

And here's a list of the Congressmen on the committee:

http://reform.house.gov/UploadedFiles/Government%20Reform%20Committee%20-%20Full%20Roster.pdf

Contact info for individual Congressmen can be found at www.house.gov (http://www.house.gov).