PDA

View Full Version : El Duque and Sox pitching pretty dissapointing


GiveMeSox
03-04-2005, 11:27 PM
Per rotoworld.

Orlando Hernandez surrendered six runs and failed to strike out a batter in three innings against the Diamondbacks today.
Hernandez has also been unimpressive in his side sessions. He may not have broken out his best offspeed pitches yet, but there is reason for concern here.

Jose Contreras was impressive only in comparison to Orlando Hernandez today. He allowed two runs and five hits in 2 2/3 innings.
Two walks and no strikeouts. It's very early, of course, but the White Sox can't be thrilled. Between the two split-squad games, Contreras, El Duque, Freddy Garcia and Jon Garland combined to give up 13 earned runs in 11 2/3 innings.

OUCH!!!

Whitesox029
03-04-2005, 11:29 PM
Guillen said later that El Duque was not using the ptiches he normally would. I believe "steady diet of fastballs" was the phrase used, and that he wasn't using his slider as much as he would in a regular season game. Sorry I don't have a link but this was just what someone else told me they read.

PAPChiSox729
03-04-2005, 11:38 PM
Guillen said later that El Duque was not using the ptiches he normally would. I believe "steady diet of fastballs" was the phrase used, and that he wasn't using his slider as much as he would in a regular season game. Sorry I don't have a link but this was just what someone else told me they read.

I hope this is true. But Ozzie might just be feeding us a pile of crap. Either way, its just the beginning of ST, so I'm not that concerned.

Ol' No. 2
03-04-2005, 11:39 PM
I hope this is true. But Ozzie might just be feeding us a pile of crap. Either way, its just the beginning of ST, so I'm not that concerned.It wouldn't be uncommon for a pitcher early in ST to concentrate on one pitch, trying to get a good feel for spotting it where he wants it. If he's getting whacked around the last week of ST, then we can start worrying.

Rocklive99
03-04-2005, 11:45 PM
See: Mark Mulder vs the Mets today

Frank the Tank
03-04-2005, 11:49 PM
Who cares what happens in pre-season?

balke
03-04-2005, 11:51 PM
Mark Mulder just shows the brilliance of Billy Beane!!!! :rolleyes:

With all this bad pitching it's a good thing we have our ace Honel back for the season. Who would've thought our entire staff would be trash?

PAPChiSox729
03-04-2005, 11:59 PM
With all this bad pitching it's a good thing we have our ace Honel back for the season. Who would've thought our entire staff would be trash?

Despite your sarcasm, I am encouraged by Honel's performance so far. It would be nice to see him return to his dominating form.

balke
03-05-2005, 12:12 AM
Despite your sarcasm, I am encouraged by Honel's performance so far. It would be nice to see him return to his dominating form.
Me too. I get a strange feeling we'll be seeing plenty of him this season. And he looks like he'll do well. Could be a huge bright spot this season. I don't think his ST performance will earn him that 5-spot right away though.

Ozzie already said a week ago that El Duque doesn't throw his good stuff in ST. Assuming that's not some kind of elaborate cover-up for an injury.. I'm glad he doesn't throw hard in ST. Last thing I wanna see is an injured pitcher. :D:

HomeFish
03-05-2005, 12:17 AM
Was it 2002 when Sox pitching was absolutely destroyed in ST? There was a pretty bad preseason for us sometime around then. Pretty much everyone had a 6+ ERA.

I'm reminded of it now.

MIgrenade
03-05-2005, 12:32 AM
2 practice games in and already people are complaining. The article seems to state that there's no reasong for concern yet. CALM DOWN! If this is going on after Easter then there's a problem.

DrCrawdad
03-05-2005, 12:46 AM
Was it 2002 when Sox pitching was absolutely destroyed in ST? There was a pretty bad preseason for us sometime around then. Pretty much everyone had a 6+ ERA.

I'm reminded of it now.

:therapy:

MRKARNO
03-05-2005, 01:38 AM
I'm not worrying about anyone's performance until about March 15-20th. If at that time, the players in question are still having major problems, I'll start to worry. The games at this point are for entertainment purposes only and really have no bearing.

DrCrawdad
03-05-2005, 01:42 AM
I'm not worrying about anyone's performance until about March 15-20th. If at that time, the players in question are still having major problems, I'll start to worry. The games at this point are for entertainment purposes only and really have no bearing.

Ah, but for some that entertainment includes tormenting true Sox fans about every run allowed.

:dtroll:
Trolls, you know who you are.

California Sox
03-05-2005, 02:22 AM
Arizona makes for some weird stat lines because breaking balls don't break as well and the ball carries. Still, I'll breathe a little easier once El Duque's stuff looks crisper, regardless of the results. And it would be nice if we'd use the light air and hit a homer. I know we're going away from power but we ought to be able to hit one.

Banix12
03-05-2005, 03:07 AM
This is preseason and you don't show opponents everything you have in preseason. What we are seeing is a lot of players competing for the first time in months and working out the kinks.

Frankly I expect the sox to tank most of this preseason, which is fine. Spring training standings are a useless indicator of showing how a team does in the regular season. Usually the teams that do the best in preseason are the teams that have a lot of openings on the roster and have a lot of preseason battles. As has been discussed on this board, the sox roster is pretty set. Most of our players don't have to fight for a spot so I'm sure most of them are just brushing up on fundamentals and experimenting a bit before the games start counting.

Cubbiesuck13
03-05-2005, 03:32 AM
Why would a bunch of veteran pitchers be trying to impress during ST? I think ST is more for conditioning for those guys than anything else. I expect the guys who will be starting the season in AAA will be the guys trying to impress. They and Willie Harris.

Jurr
03-05-2005, 10:19 AM
Why would a bunch of veteran pitchers be trying to impress during ST? I think ST is more for conditioning for those guys than anything else. I expect the guys who will be starting the season in AAA will be the guys trying to impress. They and Willie Harris.
This is exactly what's going on. Veterans know they've got a spot, so they work on little technical aspects of their game. They're not overly worried about getting rocked. They also know that certain pitches have different actions in an atmosphere like Arizona.
The kids, on the other hand, are more likely than not adjusting their pitches right now to accomodate for the air, and they're having more success. They aren't as set in their mechanics as a veteran, so they adjust to make themselves look great. There's nothing to worry about. Shingo had problems in spring training with his breaking stuff last year, and picked up an entirely different spin on the ball when he got out of Arizona last year.
El Duque and Freddy are effective when they get their breaking balls over. Freddy is especially dependent on his slider and curveball. They'll be fine when they get to that wonderful polluted air in Chicago.

owensmouth
03-05-2005, 11:28 AM
The first week of spring training and groundhog day are equally accurate at foretelling the future.

jabrch
03-05-2005, 11:31 AM
Its the second ST game. Who the hell cares? I'm no more convinced that Duque and Contreras will suck than I am that Pods is going to hit .750 with 400 triples.

JUribe1989
03-05-2005, 12:04 PM
Pedro and Randy Johnson did terrible in spring training in 2004. I'm not worried at all.

Ol' No. 2
03-05-2005, 12:26 PM
If these guys are getting lit up the last week of spring training, I might start worrying. But now? Uh-uh.

Dan H
03-05-2005, 12:50 PM
I am not concerned about Spring Training, but I am not sold on this starting staff. Once you get past Buerhle and Garcia, you have question marks. Only the regular season will tell.

Viva Medias B's
03-05-2005, 12:59 PM
I'm probably repeating something already said, but the Cubans left the ball up yesterday. It's early.

FightingBillini
03-05-2005, 01:12 PM
Its the second ST game. Who the hell cares? I'm no more convinced that Duque and Contreras will suck than I am that Pods is going to hit .750 with 400 triples.

Maybe not, but I expect at least .600 with 220 triples from Podsednik

Lip Man 1
03-05-2005, 02:06 PM
It is too early to make any judgements however I have been seeing more and more comments like in the print edition of The Sporting News, that Hernandez and Contrares are not well suited to pitching in Chicago. Especially if Comiskey Park does prove over time to be Coors Field East. The comments say they are 'fly ball' pitchers and that what the Sox needed were 'ground ball,' types like Derek Lowe.

Lip

johnny_mostil
03-06-2005, 11:47 AM
It is too early to make any judgements however I have been seeing more and more comments like in the print edition of The Sporting News, that Hernandez and Contrares are not well suited to pitching in Chicago. Especially if Comiskey Park does prove over time to be Coors Field East. The comments say they are 'fly ball' pitchers and that what the Sox needed were 'ground ball,' types like Derek Lowe.

Lip

Except some people say there's no evidence that sinkerball pitchers are actually immune to the bandbox effect... groundball pitchers, statistically, usually allow more baserunners and this seems to mean that the cheap homers they DO give up in small parks hurt them worse. Grounders are great but the ultimate bandbox remedy is "strike three, yer OUT!"

chisox06
03-06-2005, 01:51 PM
Can we please stop bitching about ST perfomance? Who cares? We have no idea what the players are working on, they may be trying new pitches, new grips, arm angles etc. I take their failures just like their success with a grain of salt.

Fredsox
03-06-2005, 04:00 PM
Remember what a crappy spring Shingo had?

SoxSpeed22
03-06-2005, 04:19 PM
Can we please stop bitching about ST perfomance? Who cares? We have no idea what the players are working on, they may be trying new pitches, new grips, arm angles etc. I take their failures just like their success with a grain of salt.Now, if anyone got hurt or has bad stuff, there's a problem, but judging by 1 week of ST? The season is over 6 months long, let's just let it play out.

SweetHereafter
03-07-2005, 12:42 PM
No need to panic.

Even at 40, El Duke is too good to be rocked by ML'ers - unless his shoulder is not healthy and velocity dips down into mid-80.

If El Duke's physical was as positive as KW claims, I guarantee a sub-4.00 ERA. Then again, I wanna see him make a few starts first.:D: