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Clembasbal
03-02-2005, 02:07 PM
None Elected in 2005 Veterans Committee Balloting


Linky (None%20Elected%20in%202005%20Veterans%20Committee %20Balloting)

This is good news for Santobashers like myself. (Mostly because he is trying to lobby himself into the HOF...where is doesn't belong).

Minnie and Dick Allen each had 12 votes (probably from the same people -- if they could vote for more than one person).

Looks like I can go to the HOF another year (because as soon as they sell out of Santo I am done with that place).

Grobber33
03-02-2005, 03:06 PM
Why should they get in at all if they can't get in on the first ballot? Either you're a HOFer or not. What changes between a guy's first year of eligibility and the second, or the fifth? Nothing, so I say you get one shot and someone can tell the curmodgeonly writers who vote that there is no such thing as a "First Ballot Hall of Fame" player, and they can leave their little grudges out of it.


I agree that you are or are not a HOFer. But how did many people feel when NELLIE FOX finally got in via the Old Veterans Committee after Al Lopez was off that deal. Lopez did not like Nellie,admitted that,and played a role in keeping Nellie out untill after Nillie passed away. I argued for many years that Fox was a HOFer and was thrilled when guys like Jack Brickhouse helped push him thru.
As for Santo, lets put his name asside for a moment. This is a very BIASED White Sox Fans site and I RESPECT THAT!! Santo or not,this current system is a joke when twice the elitest HOF players voted in nobody at all. This system twice has failed,and now they need to take it away from these Clowns.
BTW, I have been touting Frank Thomas as a HOFer(1st ballot)for 7 years now,and my oppinion has mnot changed a bit. If I had a ballot(which UI dont,since I'm not a member of the BBWAA)Frank would have my vote when it's time. But there are lots of National writers who have their doubts about him,and also some who buy this crap about not voting for him on his first ballot,but later on. That is also a bunch of crap,but these guys have the vote,and we cant do anything about it.
Lastly,Brooks Robinson,who knows something about 3B has said for years that Sant IS a HOFer. He has forgotten more about that position than any of us will ever know.

jackbrohamer
03-02-2005, 03:13 PM
Santo or not,this current system is a joke when twice the elitest HOF players voted in nobody at all. This system twice has failed,and now they need to take it away from these Clowns.

I agree with you in the sense that some of the HOF-ers have said they would not vote ANYONE in if they did not make it during their initial eligibility period (IIRC Mike Schmidt said something like that, but I am not sure). The system is a joke if voters think it should never elect anyone to the HOF.

But I don't think that the system's a failure just because nobody got in this or last time; Santo, Hodges and Oliva can legitimately be considered to be non-HOF material.

Daver
03-02-2005, 03:14 PM
Every aspect of the voting aspect for the baseball HOF is a joke, from the writers that vote to the idiotic veterans committee, or whatever the hell they choose to call it.

I lost all respect for the baseball HOF and everything it stands for years ago.

santo=dorf
03-02-2005, 03:21 PM
Every aspect of the voting aspect for the baseball HOF is a joke, from the writers that vote to the idiotic veterans committee, or whatever the hell they choose to call it.

I lost all respect for the baseball HOF and everything it stands for years ago.

If Jesus Christ were to show up with his old baseball glove, some guys wouldn't vote for Him. He dropped the cross three times, didn't He?
-- Dick Young, on Hall of Fame voting in general and, specifically, Willie Mays not being elected unanimously

Ol' No. 2
03-02-2005, 03:21 PM
Why should they get in at all if they can't get in on the first ballot? Either you're a HOFer or not. What changes between a guy's first year of eligibility and the second, or the fifth? Nothing, so I say you get one shot and someone can tell the curmodgeonly writers who vote that there is no such thing as a "First Ballot Hall of Fame" player, and they can leave their little grudges out of it.A partial list of some notable HOF players who did not get in on the first ballot:

Luke Appling
Yogi Berra
Joe DiMaggio
Don Drysdale
Carlton Fisk
Jimmie Foxx
Lou Gehrig
Hank Greenberg
John McGraw
George Sisler
Warren Spahn
Ed Walsh

samram
03-02-2005, 03:40 PM
A partial list of some notable HOF players who did not get in on the first ballot:

Luke Appling
Yogi Berra
Joe DiMaggio
Don Drysdale
Carlton Fisk
Jimmie Foxx
Lou Gehrig
Hank Greenberg
John McGraw
George Sisler
Warren Spahn
Ed Walsh

There's no doubt Lou Gehrig is a Hall of Fame player, same with Appling, DiMaggion, and all of these guys, and there's no reason any of them should have had to wait to get in. I think we're looking at this differently. I'm saying that all those who deserve to get in should get in immediately, even if that means 10 guys go in one year and 0 the next, whereas you're saying that these are the types of guys who might get left out if there's no second chance, which would be a good counter if I argued that only a certain number should get in each year.

Ol' No. 2
03-02-2005, 03:45 PM
There's no doubt Lou Gehrig is a Hall of Fame player, same with Appling, DiMaggion, and all of these guys, and there's no reason any of them should have had to wait to get in. I think we're looking at this differently. I'm saying that all those who deserve to get in should get in immediately, even if that means 10 guys go in one year and 0 the next, whereas you're saying that these are the types of guys who might get left out if there's no second chance, which would be a good counter if I argued that only a certain number should get in each year.There are a hundred reasons why a deserving player might not get in on the first ballot. To limit it to one try and you're out is silly.

Clembasbal
03-02-2005, 04:00 PM
I believe it is next year when Gwynn, Ripken, and McGwire are all up for the HOF. Granted that there is really nobody else left on the ballot that is worthy, but if Ripken gets one vote too litte he should be castoff the ballot? That is obsurb. A number of great players are eligible each year and not all of them get in because of the competition, bias, or whatever other factors there may be...but you gotta keep them on. Now 15 years is stupid, 5 years sounds better.

On Santo, I don't care if this is a bias White Sox site...he still doesn't belong. I see NO MVP's and no offensive or any championship titles. 5 gold gloves is all he has, yes 9 All-Star games but those are stupid...Ripken was still going even though he was hitting .220 with 10 HR's - so that stat should be thrown out. I will argue till I am blue in the face that 4 players from a very very unsuccessful team do not belong in the HOF. If they had 4 "True" HOF members then they would have been a dynasty. Instead they were not, the Cubs stunk during those years. Any team in baseball will kill for 4 future Hall of Fame members because of what they will accomplish. If the Cubs had them during those years (Williams, Banks, and Jenkins) then there would have at least had been ONE playoff appearance.

NonetheLoaiza
03-02-2005, 08:45 PM
Every aspect of the voting aspect for the baseball HOF is a joke, from the writers that vote to the idiotic veterans committee, or whatever the hell they choose to call it.

I lost all respect for the baseball HOF and everything it stands for years ago.

I completely agree with you. I won't go into details or anything, but especially the new veteran's committee is ridiculous. The Hall used to be about baseball, and now it just seems all politics.

ode to veeck
03-03-2005, 12:44 AM
Minnie only got 12 votes!?! Oh, the injustice. Sit down Pizza Boy.

Cubbiesuck13
03-03-2005, 07:12 AM
I agree that you are or are not a HOFer. But how did many people feel when NELLIE FOX finally got in via the Old Veterans Committee after Al Lopez was off that deal. Lopez did not like Nellie,admitted that,and played a role in keeping Nellie out untill after Nillie passed away. I argued for many years that Fox was a HOFer and was thrilled when guys like Jack Brickhouse helped push him thru.
As for Santo, lets put his name asside for a moment. This is a very BIASED White Sox Fans site and I RESPECT THAT!! Santo or not,this current system is a joke when twice the elitest HOF players voted in nobody at all. This system twice has failed,and now they need to take it away from these Clowns.
BTW, I have been touting Frank Thomas as a HOFer(1st ballot)for 7 years now,and my oppinion has mnot changed a bit. If I had a ballot(which UI dont,since I'm not a member of the BBWAA)Frank would have my vote when it's time. But there are lots of National writers who have their doubts about him,and also some who buy this crap about not voting for him on his first ballot,but later on. That is also a bunch of crap,but these guys have the vote,and we cant do anything about it.
Lastly,Brooks Robinson,who knows something about 3B has said for years that Sant IS a HOFer. He has forgotten more about that position than any of us will ever know.

I was wondering about Nellie and the hall some time ago. Care to share the story? Why was Al Lopez against Fox?

As for Santo, doesn't it make it better that he was campaigning for it? It does to me. This guy is a joke.

robiwho
03-03-2005, 02:25 PM
I believe it is next year when Gwynn, Ripken, and McGwire are all up for the HOF.

This is a little off-topic, but when I was in Cooperstown in 2001, the owner of the B&B where we stayed said he already had several reservations for the induction ceremony in 2006, when Ripken would become eligible.

Baby Fisk
03-03-2005, 02:32 PM
There are a hundred reasons why a deserving player might not get in on the first ballot. To limit it to one try and you're out is silly.
It would certainly force the issue. "Is this player worthy, yes or no?" There might be some outrages (Fisk example), but it would also prevent the Santo Circus from playing out ad nauseum.

Lip Man 1
03-03-2005, 05:46 PM
The Tribune blog site has the opinions of the Tribune folks on Santo's situation posted. Surprisingly many of the sports folks don't feel he should be inducted.

Lip