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Lip Man 1
03-02-2005, 01:12 PM
"Not too many people know Jerry Reinsdorf. He can hold a grudge forever.'' -- Ozzie Guillen to the Sun Times' Doug Padilla.

Nice to finally see this confirmed in print. Many of us suspected this for years.

Lip

Brian26
03-02-2005, 01:14 PM
"Not too many people know Jerry Reinsdorf. He can hold a grudge forever.''

Is this a bad thing?

Baby Fisk
03-02-2005, 01:15 PM
"Not too many people know Jerry Reinsdorf. He can hold a grudge forever.'' -- Ozzie Guillen to the Sun Times' Doug Padilla.

Nice to finally see this confirmed in print. Many of us suspected this for years.

Lip

Speaking of grudges, Lip...

AZChiSoxFan
03-02-2005, 01:18 PM
Is this a bad thing?

Thanks Brian, you beat me to it.

voodoochile
03-02-2005, 01:21 PM
Is this a bad thing?

In the world of business definitely. Everyone is going to tick you off occasionally.

Good business people don't hold grudges. Sometimes, it's just business...

Lip Man 1
03-02-2005, 01:24 PM
Voodoo:

Exactly...the White Sox are a multimillion dollar business and Uncle Jerry is the CEO.

Perhaps that explains the stellar record of success under his stewardship...LOL.

Lip

Brian26
03-02-2005, 01:27 PM
Perhaps that explains the stellar record of success under his stewardship...LOL.

Lip

I don't see any general, all-encompassing correlation between the White Sox on-field success over the past 20 years and JR's propensity to hold a grudge. This is a stretch.

Jabroni
03-02-2005, 01:28 PM
Speaking of grudges, Lip...No crappers... :rolleyes: When will it ever end?

Fake Chet Lemon
03-02-2005, 01:55 PM
If you are the type to hold grudges, as I used to be, you will be a far happier person to let it all go. Life is too short. And memo to Jerry- Business is business. Don't make it all personal, it clouds your business judgement.

RKMeibalane
03-02-2005, 01:55 PM
"Not too many people know Jerry Reinsdorf. He can hold a grudge forever.'' -- Ozzie Guillen to the Sun Times' Doug Padilla.

Nice to finally see this confirmed in print. Many of us suspected this for years.

Lip

Pot or kettle, Lip?

Jabroni
03-02-2005, 01:59 PM
Pot or kettle, Lip?:)

MUsoxfan
03-02-2005, 02:05 PM
Perhaps that explains the stellar record of success under his stewardship...LOL.



Veeck and his 5 WS rings are rolling over in his grave right now

voodoochile
03-02-2005, 02:18 PM
Veeck and his 5 WS rings are rolling over in his grave right now

I hate this answer to the question of whether JR has done a good or bad job of running the Sox. It's a copout.

So because the 63 years prior to JR and his group buying the Sox led to zero championships, we should be happy that the next 25 years have continued the trend?

Past ownerships' successes or failures are NOT pertinent to the discussion of whether JR is a good CEO or not, PERIOD. Heck, if it were, we might as well adopt the lovable loser motto and stop watching the game when we are at the park. Beer and babes are enough, right?

MUsoxfan
03-02-2005, 02:23 PM
I hate this answer to the question of whether JR has done a good or bad job of running the Sox. It's a copout.

So because the 63 years prior to JR and his group buying the Sox led to zero championships, we should be happy that the next 25 years have continued the trend?

Past ownerships' successes or failures are NOT pertinent to the discussion of whether JR is a good CEO or not, PERIOD. Heck, if it were, we might as well adopt the lovable loser motto and stop watching the game when we are at the park. Beer and babes are enough, right?

I just hate people thinking/saying that JR has run this organization into the ground, when I feel he's done anything but. The organization is on the rise, IMO

Dan H
03-02-2005, 02:32 PM
Is this a bad thing?

It is when you hold it against your own fans.

Jurr
03-02-2005, 02:34 PM
People think that Jerry has the ability to spend as much or as little as he wants. He is representing a company. He can spend company assets, but the amount he spends depends on risk. To spend 150 mil on a team that folds at the All Star break and still has no fans show up would kill the Sox investors and the team in general. the only way Jerry would be able to spend as much money as necessary is if the team puts a couple of division titles together, gets the fans out at the ballpark (rennovations are going to help, as well), and then increase income. You've gotta make the situation a little less of a risk,

voodoochile
03-02-2005, 02:35 PM
I just hate people thinking/saying that JR has run this organization into the ground, when I feel he's done anything but. The organization is on the rise, IMO

I think the team is primed to make a run at the ALC. I think KW is the best man for the job. I see more money being spent. I see the fans coming out more, but what exactly caused that is open for debate, IMO. I think JR stepping back from the microphone and the public eye has been good for the team's public image. I think the ballpark has had a nice renovation done to it and will continue to look better as time passes.

I am glad the team finally owned up to the issues that plagued it for most of the mid-late 90's when they took a big old crap all over the fan base several times and helped turn the tide of public perception that favored the flubbies into a full blown flood and marginalized the Sox in the third largest market in baseball.

I hope the trend continues. It will take more than a few years of effort for me to put down my distrust of this ownership group. I still would be happier if they sold and I don't think they are WS contenders until that happens unless they get REALLY lucky developing minor league talent.

JR has done a solid job of giving KW better tools to work with and let him have more autonomy when it comes to making money decisions (at least it appears that way). Maybe I am just a skeptic for who 1997 still looms in my memory. JR has to keep the momentum going, swallow the bad times unless it is completely hopeless (read: 15 games out at the trade deadline) and continue to fight to make this team a player on the national level. it's an uphill battle because of the natural advantages the flubs enjoy. It's not one for half measures and you can't give up. JR needs to continue to put his money where his mouth is and continue to do right by me and you and the rest of the fanbase.

He's making strides in that direction. Hopefully he continues.

ode to veeck
03-02-2005, 09:25 PM
I just hate people thinking/saying that JR has run this organization into the ground, when I feel he's done anything but. The organization is on the rise, IMO


When the CEO makes a public statement as in "Chicago's always been a Cubs town" as he did not so long ago, its pretty damming self incrimination that he has done just that ...

Lip Man 1
03-02-2005, 09:55 PM
Ode:

Especially when Uncle Jerry has lived full time in Chicago since 1957 and should know better since he says he's a big baseball fan.

As Rich Lindberg pointed out in his latest story, history states that Uncle Jerry's comment is ridiculous. The Sox outdrew the Cubs every season but one, from 1951 through 1967 and they had the media in their back pocket.

But 'Chicago has always been a Cubs town..." LOL What a dolt.

Lip

Jabroni
03-02-2005, 09:59 PM
Ode:

Especially when Uncle Jerry has lived full time in Chicago since 1957 and should know better since he says he's a big baseball fan.

As Rich Lindberg pointed out in his latest story, history states that Uncle Jerry's comment is ridiculous. The Sox outdrew the Cubs every season but one, from 1951 through 1967 and they had the media in their back pocket.

But 'Chicago has always been a Cubs town..." LOL What a dolt.

LipDo you really ponder stuff like this that you can't even change? Living in the past is for losers.

RKMeibalane
03-02-2005, 10:11 PM
Ode:

Especially when Uncle Jerry has lived full time in Chicago since 1957 and should know better since he says he's a big baseball fan.

As Rich Lindberg pointed out in his latest story, history states that Uncle Jerry's comment is ridiculous. The Sox outdrew the Cubs every season but one, from 1951 through 1967 and they had the media in their back pocket.

But 'Chicago has always been a Cubs town..." LOL What a dolt.

Lip

Lip, just because Jerry Reinsdorf is an idiot, is that any reason to let him spoil your fun? He will sell the team eventually. He can't live forever.

slavko
03-02-2005, 10:17 PM
It's funny that Ozzie reamed JR a new one when he was released but got hired as manager less than a lifetime afterwards. So maybe JR does forgive and forget once in a while.

batmanZoSo
03-02-2005, 10:34 PM
Unless I missed it somewhere in this thread, what was the context of Ozzie's comment? :?:

Lip Man 1
03-02-2005, 10:42 PM
Jabroni: You mean like pouring over statistics endlessly and coming out with constant trade possibilities and signing suggestions? :?:

I could see that if you were a G.M. and had it in your power to actually make trades and signings. Maybe you should have rephrased your comment to 'being a sabermetrician is for losers...especially when they aren't working for a MLB club.'

:smile:

Slavko: Or maybe as some suggested last year (I wasn't one of them) that Ozzie works cheap.

RK: I used to get violently upset when I was in my twenties with the Sox constant failures. Breaking and smashing doors, kicking garbage cans but not anymore. I'm used to their failure so what JR does doesn't spoil my fun. Like Bill Veeck said I always enjoy sticking a pin in pompous fools and then stepping aside to watch the air rush out.

Lip

Jabroni
03-02-2005, 10:46 PM
Jabroni: You mean like pouring over statistics endlessly and coming out with constant trade possibilities and signing suggestions? :?:

I could see that if you were a G.M. and had it in your power to actually make trades and signings. Maybe you should have rephrased your comment to 'being a sabermetrician is for losers...especially when they aren't working for a MLB club.'At least I post my crap in the right place. If you want to endlessly cry about Jerry Reinsdorf, why don't you at least post it in the right place... THE ROADHOUSE!!!

Lip Man 1
03-02-2005, 10:50 PM
Jabroni:

If my stuff is in the wrong place the mods will move it where they see fit. The Ozzie comments were about White Sox baseball. This is the proper location for it.

My, my seems I struck a nerve didn't I?

:smile:

Lip

Jabroni
03-02-2005, 10:53 PM
Jabroni:

If my stuff is in the wrong place the mods will move it where they see fit. The Ozzie comments were about White Sox baseball. This is the proper location for it.

My, my seems I struck a nerve didn't I?

:smile:

LipNot really. I think it's both sad and hilarious that you worry about an old man like Jerry Reinsdorf this much. You can't change anything so why b*tch and moan about it so much?

Lip Man 1
03-02-2005, 10:59 PM
Maybe because what that 'old man' does directly affects the chances of the team that he owns winning something of substance in whatever remaining years I have left.

It would be interesting to be able to observe your comments in thirty years when you are 50 or so if the Sox still haven't won anything yet.

Before condemming someone perhaps it would be wise to walk in their shoes first.

Lip

Jabroni
03-02-2005, 11:04 PM
Maybe because what that 'old man' does directly affects the chances of the team that he owns winning something of substance in whatever remaining years I have left.

It would be interesting to be able to observe your comments in thirty years when you are 50 or so if the Sox still haven't won anything yet.

Before condemming someone perhaps it would be wise to walk in their shoes first.

LipYou still didn't answer my question. Why do you b*tch and moan about Reinsdorf so much if you can't really change anything? What is the point?

Lip Man 1
03-02-2005, 11:11 PM
Same reason you spend so much time obsessing with stats, trades and signings. We're Sox fans and that's the particular focus of our fandome.


Lip

CubKilla
03-02-2005, 11:26 PM
I just hate people thinking/saying that JR has run this organization into the ground, when I feel he's done anything but. The organization is on the rise, IMO

The Organization had no where to go but up after the '94 Strike and JR's stellar "White Flag" Trade.

MRKARNO
03-02-2005, 11:35 PM
Except on occasion, Lip reminds me of Debbie Downer.

gosox41
03-03-2005, 01:37 PM
In the world of business definitely. Everyone is going to tick you off occasionally.

Good business people don't hold grudges. Sometimes, it's just business...

In a perfect world that would be the case. But egos and politics are involved in a lot of business decisions.

The question should be with regards to the type of grudges JR holds against people is what happened for him to be upset in the first place.

Is it OK to hold a grudge against Mariotti? I assume so as I do.



Bob

Flight #24
03-03-2005, 01:42 PM
Ode:

Especially when Uncle Jerry has lived full time in Chicago since 1957 and should know better since he says he's a big baseball fan.

As Rich Lindberg pointed out in his latest story, history states that Uncle Jerry's comment is ridiculous. The Sox outdrew the Cubs every season but one, from 1951 through 1967 and they had the media in their back pocket.

But 'Chicago has always been a Cubs town..." LOL What a dolt.

Lip

Yes, because I'm sure that JR meant "Always" literally, as in "Chicago has been a Cubs town since the Native Americans who lived here used to bow down to a totem of a young bear that was located next to the ditch where they used to go to the bathroom".

IIRC, Cubs outdrew the Sox for most of the decade prior to JR & co taking over. Add that to the 25-odd years of ownership, and you have a long enough period of time to idiomatically refer to as "for ever", or "always".

FireReinsdorf
03-03-2005, 02:31 PM
Lip, just because Jerry Reinsdorf is an idiot, is that any reason to let him spoil your fun? He will sell the team eventually. He can't live forever.

Exactly.

I'm patiently waiting to attend my first White Sox game since 1993.

It's just a matter of time.

voodoochile
03-03-2005, 02:41 PM
In a perfect world that would be the case. But egos and politics are involved in a lot of business decisions.

The question should be with regards to the type of grudges JR holds against people is what happened for him to be upset in the first place.

Is it OK to hold a grudge against Mariotti? I assume so as I do.



Bob


No, I have no problem with him holding a grudge against Moronotti. I just hope it never comes into play when making business deals for the team. I doubt that is the case.

Flight #24
03-03-2005, 02:43 PM
No, I have no problem with him holding a grudge against Moronotti. I just hope it never comes into play when making business deals for the team. I doubt that is the case.

He's generally a very successful businessman, and doesn't appear to be one of the owners who meddles a ton in the baseball decisions ala Steinbrenner, Angelos, etc. Both of those would indicate that he doesn't let his personal feelings impact what happens to the team.

kittle42
03-03-2005, 02:44 PM
Exactly.

I'm patiently waiting to attend my first White Sox game since 1993.

It's just a matter of time.

I still have never understood this mindset.

Jabroni
03-03-2005, 02:49 PM
I still have never understood this mindset.I'm betting it has more to do with him living in San Antonio, Texas than Reinsdorf.

Hangar18
03-03-2005, 03:35 PM
I don't see any general, all-encompassing correlation between the White Sox on-field success over the past 20 years and JR's propensity to hold a grudge. This is a stretch.

Nice of the Media to tell us what we Already Know. YES, I do believe
this unhealthy attitude JR displays, openly, hurts the SOX in so many different ways, its unreal. Many think he doesnt hold a grudge at all, which is
worse ..........

Hangar18
03-03-2005, 04:23 PM
IIRC, Cubs outdrew the Sox for most of the decade prior to JR & co taking over. Add that to the 25-odd years of ownership, and you have a long enough period of time to idiomatically refer to as "for ever", or "always".


Thats NOT TRUE. Stats have been published ad nauseum proving otherwise ...

FireReinsdorf
03-03-2005, 05:34 PM
I still have never understood this mindset.

Don't worry Kitty, I'm not asking you to understand. You're free to take whatever you want from my posts, including nothing.

I'm betting it has more to do with him living in San Antonio, Texas than Reinsdorf.

While I currently reside in the Alamo City (Go Spurs Go), my geographic location has nothing to do with my choice of attending White Sox games.

Arlington is a six hour drive from San Antonio, and interleague play would occasionally provide the opportunity to see the Sox play the Astros (approx 3.5 hour drive). Six hour road trips did not prevent my Dad and I from attending Sox games every season (from 78-93) while I grew up in Iowa. What did prevent me from seeing a game in 1994 was the strike (my Dad and I's annual trip to the ball park was set for the week they went on strike).

I'd agree that my choice to not give Reinsdorf another penny is an overreaction if the above example were the first time my ticket to a baseball game had been invalidated. Unfortunately, my Dad and I had tickets to see the Sox play the Royals in Kansas City in 1981.

My choice to not financially support the Sox by not attending any games or buying any merchandise is a compromise from my initial 1994 decision. Originally I blamed both the owners and players for the strike. I decided to boycott baseball until Reinsdorf was no longer owner AND all of the strikers had left baseball. I changed my mind after the Sox signed Albert Belle.

The current ownership group is irreconcilably bad for the White Sox franchise. I realize that many people consider Reinsdorf and his group as part of the franchise, but I don't. They merely own the franchise and can't forgive them for the worst moment in baseball history. In 1919 the World Series was thrown, but at least there was a World Series to throw. In 1994 there wasn't a World Series. Every team, every owner, every fan lost.

Simply put, I can't spend my well earned dollars and give them to Uncle Jerry. It would be as bad as supporting the Black Sox from 1919. The owners were right when they hired Landis to clean up baseball. However, the owners aren't going to police themselves. Only the fans can do provide this service to baseball via our capitalist choice.

Flight #24
03-03-2005, 05:46 PM
Thats NOT TRUE. Stats have been published ad nauseum proving otherwise ...

It most certainly IS TRUE. Check the stats yourself.

I beg to differ - that's conventional wisdom, not factual. The attendance figures per www.baseball-reference.com (http://www.baseball-reference.com) from 1968-1980 show the Cubs beating the Sox in attendance in 11 of the 13 years. That would be the 13 years before JR & co purchased the team.

What is true is that the Sox dominated the Cubs prior to 1968. but JR came into an ownership situation that was already slanted to the north side.