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iamkoza
02-25-2005, 10:36 AM
I liked what he was showing towrads the end of last season..... I had hoped the sox would give him a chance to show he can be as good as he was supposed to way back when.... but AJ should be more a gaurentee to produce consistently

Ol' No. 2
02-25-2005, 10:57 AM
I liked what he was showing towrads the end of last season..... I had hoped the sox would give him a chance to show he can be as good as he was supposed to way back when.... but AJ should be more a gaurentee to produce consistentlyAJ will probably catch 120-130 games. Davis will get his chance.

Clembasbal
02-25-2005, 11:26 AM
AJ will probably catch 120-130 games. Davis will get his chance.

I just can't get over the fact that we are paying a player a million dollors to play 40-50 games. A joke. We should have waited on signing him, after we got AJ.

JRIG
02-25-2005, 11:29 AM
I just can't get over the fact that we are paying a player a million dollors to play 40-50 games. A joke. We should have waited on signing him, after we got AJ.

We're paying Timo Perez a million dollars to impersonate an outfielder and a hitter. That seems like even more of a rip-off to me.

Clembasbal
02-25-2005, 11:35 AM
We're paying Timo Perez a million dollars to impersonate an outfielder and a hitter. That seems like even more of a rip-off to me.

I'm Not going to disagree. Platoon players, I can see them getting a million, but not backups.

Jabroni
02-25-2005, 11:45 AM
I'm Not going to disagree. Platoon players, I can see them getting a million, but not backups.Where is Timo platooning? :dunno:

Ol' No. 2
02-25-2005, 11:48 AM
We're paying Timo Perez a million dollars to impersonate an outfielder and a hitter. That seems like even more of a rip-off to me.Good bench players are valuable. Perez didn't do that much when he started, but coming off the bench he was phenomenal. If they can get that kind of production again he'll be worth the million bucks.

Soxzilla
02-25-2005, 11:48 AM
We're paying Timo Perez a million dollars to impersonate an outfielder and a hitter. That seems like even more of a rip-off to me.

That "impersonator" was the only person that could actually bunt on our team last year.

I'd gladly give him 1,000,000 so I don't have to worry about Borchard being on this roster if one the big 3 goes down.

Perez will also be the 4th outfielder if Thomas isn't ready to go. God knows I don't want to see Gload in the outfield...or Carl. Carl can DH.

iamkoza
02-25-2005, 11:53 AM
We're paying Timo Perez a million dollars to impersonate an outfielder and a hitter. That seems like even more of a rip-off to me.

COME ON TIMO!!! COME ON TIMO!!! classic

Jabroni
02-25-2005, 11:58 AM
That "impersonator" was the only person that could actually bunt on our team last year.

I'd gladly give him 1,000,000 so I don't have to worry about Borchard being on this roster if one the big 3 goes down.

Perez will also be the 4th outfielder if Thomas isn't ready to go. God knows I don't want to see Gload in the outfield...or Carl. Carl can DH.Agreed. I have no problem with Kenny spending $2 million to keep both Ben Davis and Timo. Keep in mind that we still would have had to pay around $700,000 for league minimum backups at catcher and outfielder to replace Davis and Timo. That would have left us with an extra $1,300,000 and Escobar (please don't say Borchard) and Burke as our backups. While Burke wouldn't have been that bad, who knows what Escobar could have done? I'd rather have Timo backing up the outfield since he proved he could hit with RISP, bunt, and play all outfield positions off the bench last season. What would an extra $1,300,000 have bought us anyways?

SSN721
02-25-2005, 12:00 PM
It was a nice story when he came over from Seattle and started hitting like crazy. But IIRC as the year came to a close he was more of a detriment to the team offensively. It is too bad because he seems good defensively and speaking Spanish helps a lot with this staff. I dont know if he will get much more then a back up role unfortunately.

gosox41
02-25-2005, 01:05 PM
I just can't get over the fact that we are paying a player a million dollors to play 40-50 games. A joke. We should have waited on signing him, after we got AJ.

Not onlt that, the Sox are paying him to hit .175 in those 40 games.


Bob

Clembasbal
02-25-2005, 01:18 PM
Where is Timo platooning? :dunno:

I never said he was a platoon player, I just said that paying a platoon player a million dollors was acceptable.

Clembasbal
02-25-2005, 01:22 PM
It was a nice story when he came over from Seattle and started hitting like crazy. But IIRC as the year came to a close he was more of a detriment to the team offensively. It is too bad because he seems good defensively and speaking Spanish helps a lot with this staff. I dont know if he will get much more then a back up role unfortunately.

He knows a few Spanish words. That was the thing. They said he knows spanish so he is agreat for the staff...he knows little. There was an article about this on whitesox.com last year. He took spanish in grammar school or high school. That is not a selling point, IMO.

Fake Chet Lemon
02-25-2005, 01:57 PM
Jamie Burke is a better BACKUP catcher. The guy can sit for a week and still get two hits in each spot start. Trade Davis and spend his coin on a backup infielder.

Banix12
02-25-2005, 05:24 PM
Ben Davis vs. Jaime Burke

Ben Davis
6 years and a cup of coffee of major league experience (nearly same level of experience as A.J.)
career .237 hitter with light power (highest homer total 11 in 2001)
played so ineptly in Seattle that last year he lost his backup job to the ancient Pat Borders, who I believe hadn't played more than 10 games in the majors since 1998.
He has been declared the catcher for the future by both the Padres (who traded him to get Tom Lampkin, speaking of old catchers) and Seattle and both gave up on him.

Jaime Burke
3 years ping-ponging between AAA and the majors and more than a decade in the minors.
too old at 32 to be a prospect but too young to retire
Last year was his first extended opprotunity at the majors and responded by hitting .333 in 120 at-bats. Though with no power.
Will play anywhere you tell him to, including playing outfield (though lets not try that again.)


Burke only has a small sample of major league experience but has already shown more in one year than Davis has in 6+ years. I keep hearing about Davis' potential but I only see potential to suck. And for a team looking for "Grinders" I don't see how you can leave Burke off the roster.

If Davis weren't a #1 pick we wouldn't be having this conversation, he'd be out of baseball and managing a dairy queen. I smell Shawn Abner.

Chisox003
02-25-2005, 06:06 PM
I hope JB makes the team, just because hes very easy to like as a player and definitely a "grinder"

Im not saying that Big Ben isnt, he just hasnt proven anything, even though I did like his passion for playing last year, it just seemed like he was lost at the plate most of the time...

It simply comes down to the $$, and Big Ben is makin a mil this year, so he's our backup

Basically, AJ better stay healthy

hosieryofthegods
02-26-2005, 04:36 AM
I smell Shawn Abner.

Paul Wilson by the Mets:dunno: . Seriously though, I like having Timo on the bench. He can do the little things(except against left handers, otherwise he'd probably be an allstar). Not to mention when in the playoffs, having a decent defensive replacement if Carl is in the lineup not DH'ing, would be nice.

Mickster
02-26-2005, 12:26 PM
Yesterday's CSN Spring training report mentioned that Willie will be playing sone ST games at short and Burke will be playing some at 3rd and in the OF. Ozzie said that he really likes Burke and aould not rule out starting the season off with 3 catchers. FWIW.

Mohoney
02-26-2005, 03:14 PM
Yesterday's CSN Spring training report mentioned that Willie will be playing sone ST games at short and Burke will be playing some at 3rd and in the OF. Ozzie said that he really likes Burke and aould not rule out starting the season off with 3 catchers. FWIW.

I would much rather have Burke than a 12th pitcher like Adkins.

If Kevin Walker or Bobby Jenks had an awesome Spring, then I would take the 12th pitcher, but keeping Adkins around is an exercise in futility, as is trying Willie at SS.

Trade Adkins, Willie, and whatever else you have to give up to get a legit backup IF.

santo=dorf
02-26-2005, 03:34 PM
We're paying Timo Perez a million dollars to impersonate an outfielder and a hitter. That seems like even more of a rip-off to me.

How easy is it to find someone who had 8 assists and 4 DP in 615 IP, and batted .412 with runners in scoring position and two outs? :?:

Timo is ****ing clutch, and he's perfect for our bench. His numbers look crappy due to him becoming an everyday player when Maggs went down. Just look at his numbers (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?statsId=6568&type=batting&year=2004) when there are runners on base.


As for Ben, who cares how much he is getting paid? I could see people complaining about it if Reinsdorf refused to raise payroll (at all,) or if KW didn't fill our holes.

JRIG
02-26-2005, 10:26 PM
How easy is it to find someone who had 8 assists and 4 DP in 615 IP, and batted .412 with runners in scoring position and two outs? :?:

Timo is ****ing clutch, and he's perfect for our bench. His numbers look crappy due to him becoming an everyday player when Maggs went down. Just look at his numbers (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?statsId=6568&type=batting&year=2004) when there are runners on base.


As for Ben, who cares how much he is getting paid? I could see people complaining about it if Reinsdorf refused to raise payroll (at all,) or if KW didn't fill our holes.

Of course, the year before, Perez batted and .273/.301/.351 with RISP and .179/.238/.231 with runners in scoring position and 2 outs. It's not a repeatable skill.

santo=dorf
02-26-2005, 10:42 PM
Of course, the year before, Perez batted and .273/.301/.351 with RISP and .179/.238/.231 with runners in scoring position and 2 outs. It's not a repeatable skill.

Career (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlbpa/players/6568/situational?year=career&type=Batting)

men on two outs: .289 BA, .710 OPS
man on third less than two outs: .462 BA, .990 OPS

PAPChiSox729
02-27-2005, 12:03 AM
Yesterday's CSN Spring training report mentioned that Willie will be playing sone ST games at short and Burke will be playing some at 3rd and in the OF. Ozzie said that he really likes Burke and aould not rule out starting the season off with 3 catchers. FWIW.

I really don't see why they are keeping Davis as the backup over Burke. I don't remember the exact stats, but didn't Davis have a lower batting average and throw out a lower percent of runners then Burke?

Jabroni
02-27-2005, 12:46 AM
Of course, the year before, Perez batted and .273/.301/.351 with RISP and .179/.238/.231 with runners in scoring position and 2 outs. It's not a repeatable skill.Career (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlbpa/players/6568/situational?year=career&type=Batting)

men on two outs: .289 BA, .710 OPS
man on third less than two outs: .462 BA, .990 OPSYou forgot to mention Timo's career RISP...

Timo Perez (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlbpa/players/6568/situational?year=career&type=Batting) (career RISP)
289 AB
.318 AVG
.350 OBP
3 HR
125 RBI
20 BB
28 K

Not a repeatable skill my arse. :wink: Timo is clutch with RISP and has been over his entire career. Nuff said.

Banix12
02-27-2005, 01:02 AM
I really don't see why they are keeping Davis as the backup over Burke. I don't remember the exact stats, but didn't Davis have a lower batting average and throw out a lower percent of runners then Burke?

Davis batted .231 for the sox, .207 between seattle and chicago. Either way it was his worst season in his whole career and he has been declining in both playing time and plate production for the last three years. Burke hit .333.

In 494 innings caught Davis allowed 34 stolen bases and caught 14 runners, roughly 29% of runners.
in 292 innings caught Burke allowed 11 stolen bases and caught 8 runners, roughly 42% of runners.

chisoxmike
02-27-2005, 01:55 PM
I'm glad I'm not the only one that would like to see Jamie Burke on the opening day roster. Burke really impressed me in his brief playing time in 2004. Although, I didn't really have a problem with Davis, I thought Burke seemed more comfortable at the plate... behind it, and while at bat.

With Davis signing a $1 million deal, I doubt Burke will be playing very much and I wouldn't be surprised if he is delt this summer. Which is too bad becuase JB has been around the minors for a while now.

SOX ADDICT '73
02-27-2005, 02:52 PM
I rooted for Ben Davis big time last season, and was glad to see the Sox sign him to another year. I wanted him to do well for obvious reasons (help the Sox win), but also because it would make the loss of Miguel Olivo sting a little less, with all due respect to Freddy. With AJ around, I don't worry about that as much. AJ may not have Olivo's cannon, but he's better offensively, at least for now (I still believe Miguel is going to be a superstar). Looking at their numbers, both at the plate and behind it, it does seem strange that the Sox are more interested in using Davis as the backup instead of Burke.

JGarlandrules20
02-27-2005, 03:06 PM
Looking at their numbers, both at the plate and behind it, it does seem strange that the Sox are more interested in using Davis as the backup instead of Burke.
All I remember is that there were quite a few really good throws to home that Burke could not handle.

SOX ADDICT '73
02-27-2005, 03:09 PM
All I remember is that there were quite a few really good throws to home that Burke could not handle.
True that. And if Big Ben had been behind the plate, Torii Hunter might have ended up in a body cast!

PAPChiSox729
02-27-2005, 03:56 PM
True that. And if Big Ben had been behind the plate, Torii Hunter might have ended up in a body cast!

I can't wait for Hunter to try that stuff on AJ.

SOX ADDICT '73
02-27-2005, 04:51 PM
Who's choosing the pictures for Whitesox.com, anyway? Jamie Burke's been the subject of the last few posts in this thread, and today there just happens to be a story on Burke (the Mailbag, actually) at the official team site. The photo of Jamie on the home page shows him getting plowed over, maybe by Hunter, and when you click the "FULL STORY" link, the first thing you see is him dropping the ball. They did something similar to Jon Adkins this week, with neither photo showing his face, and one of them taken after he'd apparently given up an Oakland homerun. ***?:dunno:

Ol' No. 2
02-27-2005, 04:51 PM
True that. And if Big Ben had been behind the plate, Torii Hunter might have ended up in a body cast!Don't be too sure. Almost anyone getting blindsided like that is going to go down.

Banix12
02-27-2005, 05:52 PM
This should be the test for backup catcher in spring training, and include widger and cassanova in this. Each one of them has to catch Contreras for a spring training game. Whoever catches him the best gets the job. If he can block his forkball in the dirt, he deserves to make the team.

Daver
02-27-2005, 06:05 PM
This should be the test for backup catcher in spring training, and include widger and cassanova in this. Each one of them has to catch Contreras for a spring training game. Whoever catches him the best gets the job. If he can block his forkball in the dirt, he deserves to make the team.

I doubt AJ can catch Contreas, Ben probably can.

jabrch
02-27-2005, 06:12 PM
Not onlt that, the Sox are paying him to hit .175 in those 40 games.


Bob

That's just silly.

shoota
03-01-2005, 01:55 AM
I don't see how anyone could be on the Ben Davis bandwagon until he gets rid of that lettuce:

http://images.sportsline.com/images/baseball/mlb/players/60x80/18917.jpg http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20030326/226ejected26.jpg http://www.geocities.com/caroljean52/MsPix/DavisBen.jpg

petekat
03-02-2005, 12:22 PM
I'm not sure AJ is the answer many seem to be making him out to be. Can never have enough backup. Burke is weak defensively, and let Torri bowl him over.



Jamie Burke is a better BACKUP catcher. The guy can sit for a week and still get two hits in each spot start. Trade Davis and spend his coin on a backup infielder.