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View Full Version : Is Joe Crede Long-Term Answer?


ballclub3
02-21-2005, 02:59 AM
Do you think Joe Crede is the long-term answer for Chicago at 3rd base? The guy has been a disappointment at the plate ever since he broke into the majors. Very streaky, has prolonged funks at the plate, etc. Isn't there anybody better out there that can be found to play 3rd base? Whatever happened to Fernando Tatis? Maybe they should invite him to spring training if he is out there.

Whitesox029
02-21-2005, 03:03 AM
I think it's pretty much set that Joe's going to start at 3rd for the 2005 Sox, so don't get your hopes up about a replacement at the moment. If he is struggling, Kenny may go out and get someone at the deadline, or if the team is doing really well, he might decide to stick with him through '05. If he repeats his '04 numbers in '05, I see Kenny going after someone, and I would not be against it.

JUribe1989
02-21-2005, 03:03 AM
Do you think Joe Crede is the long-term answer for Chicago at 3rd base? The guy has been a disappointment at the plate ever since he broke into the majors. Very streaky, has prolonged funks at the plate, etc. Isn't there anybody better out there that can be found to play 3rd base? Whatever happened to Fernando Tatis? Maybe they should invite him to spring training if he is out there.

Joe will come through this year. He has already shown his defensive skills and ability to hit 20+ homers. Tatis wasn't in the majors in 2004 mostly because he hit .194 in 2003. His 15 minutes of fame was the game where he hit 2 grand slams in one inning. And watch out for our 1st round draft pick last year Josh Fields. Scouts have described this guy as the next Robin Ventura. He was also named the best power hitter in the White Sox organization by Baseball America.

kojak
02-21-2005, 03:07 AM
I have had my doubts about Crede, mainly since hearing last season about his reluctance/refusal to take any instruction from Greg Walker.

However, this article gives me confidence for 2005:

Crede's plane bad (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-050220sox,1,3985326.story?coll=cs-whitesox-headlines)

FightingBillini
02-21-2005, 03:14 AM
I believe that Crede will have a breakout year. It may not be an Adrian Beltre 2004 breakout, but I am predicting .280, 30 HR, 90-100 RBI.

That being said, if he doesnt get it done this year, I think he will be out. If has has a mediocre year again, KW will likely pick up a veteran to hold 3B for a few years until Fields is ready for the bigs. This is Crede's time to step up. If he does, then he could be the long term answer. If he doesn't, then we will be looking towards Aaron Boone, Bill Mueller or Jeff Cirillo in free agency next year.

Cubbiesuck13
02-21-2005, 03:32 AM
He better be because he hasn't been the short term.

shoota
02-21-2005, 03:52 AM
I was practically drooling in anticipation when I would hear periodic reports on him from the minor leagues. He's been up here for a while now so now no more drooling at the mouth, more like foaming at the mouth out of frustration for his play. The same thing happened with Borchard, but I think worse with Crede because he had a much better minor leagues and based on playing time hurt the team FAR less than Crede. Plus he's so slow.

shoota
02-21-2005, 03:54 AM
I don't mean to knock the guy because he did perform in the minors so well, and he's only been on the major leagues for like 3 years, but when Royce Clayton is an offensive upgrade, you got problems.

HomeFish
02-21-2005, 03:55 AM
It isn't that Crede has disapointed. It's that he's actually regressed.

Before the start of the 2004 season, I actually had optimistic expectations for Crede; I grouped him with Magglio and Buerhle among the players that would not disapoint. I can't see any instance in which I would say that about him prior to this season -- which goes to show just how bad his 2004 was.

Banix12
02-21-2005, 05:46 AM
He can be. I haven't seen anything in his swing that can't be fixed and for a league that has a shortage of good 3b the numbers he put up last year aren't exactly horrible. Not great and not what you want from a long term solution but not horrible. If he can shorten his swing a bit he should make signifigant strides.

Here's our problem. If he does do well and has a breakout season, he probably won't be the long term solution anyway. If he comes out of the blocks and puts up a .300 avg and 30+ HR's I gotta think he is on his way out of here when his free agency kicks in. After all, Isn't he one of the few Scott Boras clients left on the White Sox roster? Uribe being the other I think.

The only way he stays a long term solution for the sox is if he is if he makes modest enough strides to be a productive player, yet average enough that Boras won't set the price too high. Say about .275 and 25 HR's, and even at that level of production, with the hot corner being a hard position to field for most teams, he could fetch a good dollar on the free agent market.

Hello Josh Fields.

RedPinStripes
02-21-2005, 06:23 AM
I don't mean to knock the guy because he did perform in the minors so well, and he's only been on the major leagues for like 3 years, but when Royce Clayton is an offensive upgrade, you got problems.

When was Clayton ever an offensive upgrade?:kukoo:

JRIG
02-21-2005, 06:47 AM
It isn't that Crede has disapointed. It's that he's actually regressed.

Before the start of the 2004 season, I actually had optimistic expectations for Crede; I grouped him with Magglio and Buerhle among the players that would not disapoint. I can't see any instance in which I would say that about him prior to this season -- which goes to show just how bad his 2004 was.

I think this is the main point. Crede was noticeably worse is 2003 than in 2002 and was worse in 2004 than in 2003. And his defense, in my opinon, has always been very overrated.

So we're left with a guy entering his fourth year at the age of 27 with a batting average slide of .285 to .261 to .239. An OBP slide of .311 to .308 to .299. And an SLG slide from .515 to .433 to .418.

This is not a pretty picture.

nccwsfan
02-21-2005, 08:06 AM
This question can be answered sometime around July. I'm pulling for him and believe that he could be our long term option at 3rd base, but if he struggles again this season the numbers don't lie, and they'll either find someone through trade/free agency or wait for Josh Fields to develop into the role.

SoxFanTillDeath
02-21-2005, 09:40 AM
I think this is the main point. Crede was noticeably worse is 2003 than in 2002 and was worse in 2004 than in 2003. And his defense, in my opinon, has always been very overrated.

So we're left with a guy entering his fourth year at the age of 27 with a batting average slide of .285 to .261 to .239. An OBP slide of .311 to .308 to .299. And an SLG slide from .515 to .433 to .418.

This is not a pretty picture.

Referencing your sig, JRIG. If Crede doesn't perform this year and Reed does in Seattle, all the sudden the question in the Garcia trade is not, "Did we give up too much", but "Did we give up too little? Should we have given them Crede like they wanted and kept Reed?"

I hate bringing up old arguments, and I am not saying that the trade should have never been made because I like the trade, but at this point I would rather have Reed than Crede. If we had Reed we would have our leadoff hitter in house, and could have focused on signing a veteran 3rd baseman to fill the hole for 2-3 years until fields was ready. We could have then traded Lee for another pitcher or kept lee and never have signed Dye.

Or to go completely crazy, we could have done the lee trade, leaving us with a young, speedy, contact outfield (Rowand, Reed, Pods) and saving a little salary, signed Pierzinski (sp?) and Hernandez and Hermanson, and then thrown all the money we had at Adrian beltre. Give him a 5 year deal, keep him for 3 or 4 and trade him when Fields is ready.

Just for kicks, our pitching situation would be exactly the same, and we would have had the following lineup:

Podsednik (CF)
Reed (RF)
Beltre (3B)
Thomas/Everett (DH)
Konerko (1B)
Rowand (CF)
Pierzinski (C)
Uribe (SS)
Harris (2B)

I know payroll wouldn't work out and I'm sure I overlooked a million different things, but I just wanted to bring this up for the sake of argument...a lineup without crede looks a whole lot better than one with it. I really hope he develops into a major league infielder soon.

johnny_mostil
02-21-2005, 11:02 AM
Beltre (3B)


But Beltre's 2001-2003 span looks a lot like Crede's 2002-2004 span. Just because he managed to put it together once doesn't mean he isn't Brady Anderson all over again. Horribly risky. Crede's got a 40% chance of outhitting him this year anyway. Scott Rolen, I'd say sure. Beltre is going to have to do it for three straight years before I put him in Rolen's class.

I wish people would stop evaluating ballplayers solely on what they did last season. Sometimes players get really lucky, or really hot, or both. The history of baseball is littered with fluke seasons. When a perennial disappointment like Beltre suddenly hits like he "should" in his walk year, why should we expect him not to just fall back to mediocrity when he has no incentive to produce?

(This applies, by the way, to the 2003 Royals and the 2004 Indians...)

zach074
02-21-2005, 11:06 AM
I'm jumping on the Crede bandwagon and saying that he is the long term answer. I think this year he will really start to play to his potential.

Ol' No. 2
02-21-2005, 11:19 AM
Do you think Joe Crede is the long-term answer for Chicago at 3rd base? The guy has been a disappointment at the plate ever since he broke into the majors. Very streaky, has prolonged funks at the plate, etc. Isn't there anybody better out there that can be found to play 3rd base? Whatever happened to Fernando Tatis? Maybe they should invite him to spring training if he is out there.Ask me again in June.

TheBull19
02-21-2005, 11:38 AM
Ask me again in June.

You should make that to your sig you say that so much:)

My answer is no and am standing by my earlier prediction that he will be replaced by a mystery pre-trade deadline 3b, or perhaps a SS w/ Uribe sliding over.

Ol' No. 2
02-21-2005, 01:32 PM
You should make that to your sig you say that so much:)

My answer is no and am standing by my earlier prediction that he will be replaced by a mystery pre-trade deadline 3b, or perhaps a SS w/ Uribe sliding over.I said it because it's the reasonable answer. The past is gone. Unless you have some idea how he's going to do THIS year, how can you possibly come to an intelligent answer? And anyone who thinks he knows is just kidding himself. They haven't even started spring training yet for crying out loud.

Besides, it's a completely pointless question, because like it or not, he's going to get a shot this year. If he's still struggling after a month or two, you could see him replaced, but nothing is going to happen before that.

Fake Chet Lemon
02-21-2005, 01:51 PM
KW doesn't have a $100M budget to work with. He CAN'T put a stud at every position. Therefore he has to go cheap somewhere so that he can spend on pitching, so Crede is an excellent decision. He's our "cheap" guy, but yet plays near gold glove defense and hits 20+ HR's, AND he still has upside. In the big financial picture, Crede is just fine for us.

MHOUSE
02-21-2005, 03:44 PM
Crede overall has been average at best and I was under the impression when he was coming up through the minors that he was the next big thing and the long-term answer at third base. So far I haven't seen it.

This is Crede's make or break year. If he flops again then he's out and a new infielder is in at the trade deadline. If suddenly he goes ''Beltre'' and pops 30 HR and 100 RBI then that's great and I'll support him. He needs to step up in 2005 though because he's run out of time to not produce. The ONE THING I do love about Crede is that he's pretty clutch. He had quite a few game-winning hits at the Cell IIRC. If only he could do that on a day-to-day basis.

MRKARNO
02-21-2005, 04:04 PM
I agree with the notion that Crede has to produce this year or be out of luck as a long-term option. I think it's a good sign that he is working as hard as possible to get better. Marks I would like to see him reach this year:

.270 BA
.340 OBP
25 HR
80 RBI

If he hits those marks we'll be in fine shape.

SoxxoS
02-21-2005, 04:11 PM
I can't be the only one who thinks Crede's defense is overrated, can I?

I am not to excited about him changing his swing plane and having it actually work/stick. It's hard to undue 22 years of something. That is like asking Jim Furyk to "swing normal." He might be worse off than last year, and then we have real problems.

I am pulling for him, I just don't think it's going to happen.

JRIG
02-21-2005, 04:17 PM
I can't be the only one who thinks Crede's defense is overrated, can I?

I am not to excited about him changing his swing plane and having it actually work/stick. It's hard to undue 22 years of something. That is like asking Jim Furyk to "swing normal." He might be worse off than last year, and then we have real problems.

I am pulling for him, I just don't think it's going to happen.

Nope, I agree his defense is overrated.

kittle42
02-21-2005, 04:21 PM
Crede is the long-term answer. Of course, the question is "Which Sox player will continue to suck?"

balke
02-21-2005, 04:24 PM
Konerko had his godawful year, and came back. Joe was really really really bad at the plate last season. He turned it around towards the end, a little bit. He needs confidence. He has skill, but he still seems young out there. He also got a little lazy in the field last season IMO. I agree, ask again in June.

mikehuff
02-21-2005, 04:28 PM
If Crede hits in the .230s again in 2005, he will still be the starting 3rd baseman in 2006. At that time he will be given a very short time to improve, if not he would be out no later than the trade deadline.
I don't like it, but this is how the Sox work.

If Joe bats .260 this year, he guarantees himself a job throughout the entire 2006 season. If he doesn't improve over .260 in 2006 he will be gone.

So basically I see Joe here throughout this entire year (2005) and at least the start of next (2006.) Personally, I think he will hit .260 and will be start in 2006. I think that would be enough to dump him, but they won't

guillen4life13
02-21-2005, 05:30 PM
It's hard to undue 22 years of something.

Rowand took care of his swing flaw (dropping his right arm down before the swing) and look at where it got him.

It's not all that unlikely that he can overcome the flaw. Walker is working with him on it. As No 2 said, we'll see what happens come June.

Foulke29
02-21-2005, 05:30 PM
Do you think Joe Crede is the long-term answer for Chicago at 3rd base? The guy has been a disappointment at the plate ever since he broke into the majors. Very streaky, has prolonged funks at the plate, etc. Isn't there anybody better out there that can be found to play 3rd base? Whatever happened to Fernando Tatis? Maybe they should invite him to spring training if he is out there.

Yes.

SoxFan76
02-21-2005, 05:33 PM
I'm rooting for Joe all the way, but he really needs to pick it up. I think the only thing keeping him in the lineup is the fact that he is above average defensively and he is clutch as HELL.

MRKARNO
02-21-2005, 05:37 PM
I can't be the only one who thinks Crede's defense is overrated, can I?


No you're not. I don't understand why everyone thinks he so great at 3B. He made a lot of bad errors (or mistakes that weren't counted as errors) there last year that I noticed.

Ol' No. 2
02-21-2005, 05:41 PM
If Crede hits in the .230s again in 2005, he will still be the starting 3rd baseman in 2006. At that time he will be given a very short time to improve, if not he would be out no later than the trade deadline.
I don't like it, but this is how the Sox work.

If Joe bats .260 this year, he guarantees himself a job throughout the entire 2006 season. If he doesn't improve over .260 in 2006 he will be gone.

So basically I see Joe here throughout this entire year (2005) and at least the start of next (2006.) Personally, I think he will hit .260 and will be start in 2006. I think that would be enough to dump him, but they won'tI disagree. If he hits in the .230's again, he'll be replaced mid-season. It won't be too hard to find someone mid-season who can hit better than .230. As for next year, that's going to depend on how fast Fields comes along, and there's no way to predict that right now.

BigEdWalsh
02-21-2005, 06:40 PM
I really hope Joe steps it up this year, but I think Josh Fields is the long range guy in any case.

Ol' No. 2
02-21-2005, 06:44 PM
I really hope Joe steps it up this year, but I think Josh Fields is the long range guy in any case.Competition is gooooood.

soxtalker
02-21-2005, 07:10 PM
What was the point of this thread? Don't get me wrong, this kind of subject is certainly appropriate for discussion on this board. However, it seems like we've had many threads in which people have expressed their frustration with Crede's slow progress. I guess that it is simply an indication that there isn't much news to debate right now; we do need the games to begin!

PAPChiSox729
02-22-2005, 11:24 PM
I really hope Joe steps it up this year, but I think Josh Fields is the long range guy in any case.

Hopefully, Joe will hit .280 this year with 20-25 HRs and 75-90 RBI and we will forget about all of these "Dump Joe" threads.
:D:

SoxxoS
02-22-2005, 11:25 PM
Harris hopes to beat out Iguchi

I hope to play "Wifeswap" with Seal.

ballclub3
02-23-2005, 01:50 AM
Hey folks, in the original posting I invoked the name Fernando Tatis to hopefully spark some interest and some feedback on him. My point was that if he is available, Chicago should invite him to spring training to take a look at him. There would be no harm in that. Maybe Greg Walker could fix something in his swing. The guy has a lot of natural ability and has put up good major league numbers in the past. It would also be helpful to make Joe actually have to compete for his job wherever that competition comes from. Maybe some incentive will inspire Joe to improve his offense. Anyway, we can talk about Josh Fields until the cows come home, but I don't think he will be ready anytime in 2005. And I know that you guys are getting impatient (as am I) and you want to win the division this year. I don't know if that's going to happen with a third baseman who hits .230 and at times can struggle at the plate as bad as anyone in baseball. And Joe can also be quite boring, always moping around. Bad and boring, folks. That's not a good combination.

SABRSox
02-23-2005, 02:01 AM
Hey folks, in the original posting I invoked the name Fernando Tatis to hopefully spark some interest and some feedback on him. My point was that if he is available, Chicago should invite him to spring training to take a look at him. There would be no harm in that. Maybe Greg Walker could fix something in his swing. The guy has a lot of natural ability and has put up good major league numbers in the past.

Fernando Tatis? He's been out of baseball since 2003. He was released by the Devil Rays in Spring Training 2004. We don't need that.

Jabroni
02-23-2005, 02:18 AM
Look at Fernando Tatis' career numbers...

http://www.baseball-reference.com/t/tatisfe01.shtml

Make note of his career year in 1999. Keep in mind that he was playing on the Cardinals with Mark McGwire that year. Can you say "steroids"?

Banix12
02-23-2005, 04:39 PM
Hey folks, in the original posting I invoked the name Fernando Tatis to hopefully spark some interest and some feedback on him. My point was that if he is available, Chicago should invite him to spring training to take a look at him. There would be no harm in that. Maybe Greg Walker could fix something in his swing. The guy has a lot of natural ability and has put up good major league numbers in the past. It would also be helpful to make Joe actually have to compete for his job wherever that competition comes from. Maybe some incentive will inspire Joe to improve his offense.

In the last 4 seasons that Tatis played in the Majors he never even really reached the mediocre level that Crede played last year and his last good year was six years ago. If we're gonna talk about bringing in washed up 3rd basemen to compete with Crede there are better players we can be talking about. Why just look north to Milwaukee where they have a fun little washed-up 3rd baseman derby going with Russ Branyan, Wes Helms, Kevin Orie and Jeff Cirillo battling for a 3rd base spot. Any of those four guys I believe has to be better than Tatis.

3rd base is one of those positions where, right now in the league, there isn't exactly an abundance of big time talent. Crede may not be a big time talent but he at least has a bigger upside and more talent than 1/3 of the starting 3rd basemen in the league right now.

tstrike2000
02-23-2005, 05:21 PM
This may have been mentioned already, but Crede has been working in his batting cage at home and I think I even read Greg Walker was working with him at his house. If those are true, he's finally showing the focus that's been lacking the last few years. He's got talent, with focus could be a breakout year.

PAPChiSox729
02-23-2005, 07:41 PM
This may have been mentioned already, but Crede has been working in his batting cage at home and I think I even read Greg Walker was working with him at his house. If those are true, he's finally showing the focus that's been lacking the last few years. He's got talent, with focus could be a breakout year.

I think he realized that this season is make-or-break for him. I would working my butt off too if it meant keeping my job!

shoota
02-28-2005, 10:31 PM
When was Clayton ever an offensive upgrade?:kukoo:

Clayton's an offensive upgrade when compared to Crede. I was comparing the two and trying to put into perspective how bad of a hitter Crede is by comparing him to a poor hitter, Clayton, that all White Sox fans have seen.

SluggersAway
02-28-2005, 10:38 PM
We are really getting desperate. This is pathetic. We really need some baseball to rid ourselves of these ridiculous threads.

The only way Crede is the longterm solution is if he improves by leaps and bounds this season.

Enough of the silliness, play ball already!

Fake Chet Lemon
03-01-2005, 07:30 PM
I just saw (Tuesday evening 3/1) Sam Smith on Comcast with Dan Jiggets. He said Joe Crede will hit .270, and he said "write it down." If he hits .270 that would be fantastic. I know Sam Smith covers basketball a ton, but when he ventures over to baseball I've always found his stuff to be very reliable. He's a solid baseball guy as well. He also made another great point. He said he wouldn't miss watching Carlos Lee- watching his own HRs leave the yard. I agree, I always thought that was too "Sammy-like". Be a pro Carlos!

balke
03-01-2005, 07:37 PM
He said he wouldn't miss watching Carlos Lee- watching his own HRs leave the yard. I agree, I always thought that was too "Sammy-like". Be a pro Carlos!

I'll will miss his hit streak, his .300 avg., his .1000 fielding %, his 2Baggers, his clutch hitting, his average speed, and the 30+ hr season he's sure to have.

But yeah, watching homeruns sucks. :wink:

sidenote: If Crede doesn't hit, hopefully fields can jump right in. I expect Joe to blow up after all this work he's put in on his swing. It worked for Paulie, it can work for him.

The Wunsch
03-01-2005, 08:18 PM
I just hope Reed isn't Joe Crede 2.

gobears1987
03-01-2005, 08:19 PM
In a few years when Josh Fields is ready he will get the job.

gobears1987
03-01-2005, 08:22 PM
I don't mean to knock the guy because he did perform in the minors so well, and he's only been on the major leagues for like 3 years, but when Royce Clayton is an offensive upgrade, you got problems.
POST OF THE WEEK!!!!

shoota
03-01-2005, 10:08 PM
POST OF THE WEEK!!!!

Thanks bro! :cool: