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Takatsufan
02-19-2005, 10:13 PM
Is Ron Santo is elected into the Baseball Hall of Fame by the Veterans Comitee, I will from that moment refuse to accept Cooperstown as a place for basebal greatness. Santo doesn't even deserve to set foot in the hall. Now Barry Rozner or some idiot from the Daily Herald is saying that he has a good chance to get in. The thought just blows me away.

SOXintheBURGH
02-19-2005, 10:32 PM
Is Ron Santo is elected into the Baseball Hall of Fame by the Veterans Comitee, I will from that moment refuse to accept Cooperstown as a place for basebal greatness. Santo doesn't even deserve to set foot in the hall. Now Barry Rozner or some idiot from the Daily Herald is saying that he has a good chance to get in. The thought just blows me away.

I've never been to Cooperstown, but plan on going when Frank is enshrined. If Santo gets in, though, I will have to vomit/urinate upon the building.

MUsoxfan
02-19-2005, 10:35 PM
I despise Santo with all my heart. He's an overrated loudmouthed showboat that deserves to sweep the floor in Cooperstown.

MRKARNO
02-19-2005, 10:44 PM
He was a pretty darned good player, but I dont think he has the numbers to be taken seriously as a hall of fame candidate.

SOXintheBURGH
02-19-2005, 10:57 PM
He was a pretty darned good player, but I dont think he has the numbers to be taken seriously as a hall of fame candidate.

Exactly, its the Hall of Fame, not the hall of "pretty darned good." If Santo gets in that institution loses all credibility. Besides, baseball wasn't even invented there, it was invented in New Jersey. Pish-posh!

HebrewHammer
02-19-2005, 11:45 PM
If he makes it(very BIG if), that would make 4 players and 1 manager from a team that won NOTHING, not even a division. It's amazing what a little blue and red kool-aid can do.

TommyJohn
02-20-2005, 01:08 AM
Minnie Minoso belongs in before Ron Santo. Let's hear from the members of
the Chicago media who will campaign for him.





















*SILENCE*

dcb33
02-20-2005, 03:39 AM
http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/chc/news/chc_news.jsp?ymd=20050219&content_id=946247&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp

I don't know what's more pathetic- the possibility that Santo might make the HOF as a player or as a broadcaster. Either way, if he makes it the prestige and credibility of the HOF will be severely weakened.

Banix12
02-20-2005, 04:45 AM
I'm young and never really got a chance to see the man play so I'm not going to get all huffy about his status. However i'm not going angry at cubs players just for the fact that they are cubs players. I don't like the cubs as a team but there are players who have played for them who I respected for the way they played the game. From those players I personally saw, guys like Sandberg and Grace are guys who I respect they way the played.

From what I understand, he was a good player for a number of years and was rightfully a guy on the bubble of the hall. Certainly though he would be better than many other Veterans Comittee votes who got in. How about Bill Mazeroski who basically got in on the basis of one at bat. A viable case can be made for his hall induction and he wouldn't be a black spot upon the hall.

Fredsox
02-20-2005, 06:51 AM
Exactly, its the Hall of Fame, not the hall of "pretty darned good." If Santo gets in that institution loses all credibility. Besides, baseball wasn't even invented there, it was invented in New Jersey. Pish-posh!

I will tell you that when the man played he was considered near the defensive equal of Brooks Robinson and his offensive statistics are clearly superior. Santo is not in the HOF because he is associated with being a loser from 1969 (IMO). Robinson is in the HOF because he played well in the World Series, something Santo never had the chance to do.

Here's a quick comparison of the 2 players
Robinson Santo
Years 23 15
HR 268 342
RBI 1357 1331
Avg 267 277
Field % 971 954


As much as I can't stand the Cubs I believe that Santo deserves to be in the HOF. He's no Mike Schmidt but his contributions are as good as any third baseman from his era.

vance
02-20-2005, 06:55 AM
Regardless of how one may feel about a team or a player, there is little doubt that Santo belongs in the HOF. When comparing his numbers to other thirdbasemen of his generation, he should have been inducted a long time ago. The only true knock I can find against him is that he didn't play long enough.

Santo won 5 gold gloves which indicates he certainly wasn't a hack in the filed. He finished in the top five in MVP voting five times. (Highest finish was 4 in 1967). Had sabermatrics been around in Santo's day, there is no doubt that he'd be in by now. In a 15 year career, he was top 10 in OBP 7 times, leading the league twice in 1964 and 1966. He was top ten in OPS five times, his highest being second in 1966.

Going beyond league rankings and comparing Santo to his contemporary Brooks Robinson, Santo stacks up pretty well. Santo played 15 seasons, while Robinson played 23.

Here's the comparison.
Batting Average
Santo: 277
Robinson: 267

SLG %
Santo: 464
Robinson: 401

On Base %
Santo: 362
Robinson: 322

HR
Santo: 342
Robinson: 268

RBI
Santo: 1331
Robinson: 1357

Hits
Santo: 2254
Robinson: 2848

With the exception of hits and RBI, Santo has the lead in all categories. Given that Robinson played 8 more seasons, his RBI and hits aren't that much greater (if at all) than Santo.

Granted Robinson likely gets in the HOF based on his defense, but if Robinson was the best thirdbaseman of his day, there is little doubt Santo was the second best. Robinson's fielding percentage is 971, Santo was no slouch in the filed follows him with a 954. Based on numbers alone, Santo belongs, but if you add to the mere statistics the fact he played his entire career with diabetes, there is little doubt that he belongs in the HOF. I would hope any true baseball fan could look beyond their bias and see that.

Jabroni
02-20-2005, 07:02 AM
Don't forget about Santo's moronic heel-clicking and that his own teammates hated his guts. :tongue:

vance
02-20-2005, 07:04 AM
Don't forget about Santo's moronic heel-clicking and that his own teammates hated his guts. :tongue:

If teammates feelings toward someone is part of the equation, there's a lot of guys we need to un-enshrine, beginning with Ty Cobb.

Jabroni
02-20-2005, 07:16 AM
If teammates feelings toward someone is part of the equation, there's a lot of guys we need to un-enshrine, beginning with Ty Cobb.Well, I'd rather see Ron Santo make the Hall of Fame than a joke like Sosa who used roids and corked his bat.

vance
02-20-2005, 07:25 AM
Well, I'd rather see Ron Santo make the Hall of Fame than a joke like Sosa who used roids and corked his bat.

I'd rather see Santo in than Sosa, too. But the truth is that both belong. While Sosa may or may not have done roids, it won't keep him out. Just like it won't keep McGwire out, and he likely did roids too, or it won't likely keep Pudge out and he has been named as a roid user, or Palmeiro, and the list goes on.

Jabroni
02-20-2005, 07:27 AM
I'd rather see Santo in than Sosa, too. But the truth is that both belong. While Sosa may or may not have done roids, it won't keep him out. Just like it won't keep McGwire out, and he likely did roids too, or it won't likely keep Pudge out and he has been named as a roid user, or Palmeiro, and the list goes on.Sosa doesn't BELONG in the Hall of Fame but he will likely make it. And then there's Frank Thomas, the one Hall of Famer who DIDN'T take roids.

vance
02-20-2005, 07:52 AM
Sosa belongs. He'll retire with over 600 homeruns and the only player to ever hit over 60 homers in a season, twice. If you don't think he belongs, then I guess you don't think Bonds belongs either. As much as we may not like the steroid controversy, and I wish that players were clean, it wasn't against the rules at the time, and there will never be a way to irrefutably prove one way or another that a player did roids. There are suspicions around Sosa, and there should be, but regardless his accomplishments stand. Just as we don't hold it against Ruth that he never had to face a black pitcher.

And yes, I have said on numerous places and occasions that Frank Thomas belongs. (Unless you want to bring in the "great teammate argument you've tried against Santo) I don't think Thomas will be a first ballot guy, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't. That's more a statement against the voters.

idseer
02-20-2005, 07:52 AM
I would hope any true baseball fan could look beyond their bias and see that.

i believe you're asking too much from cub haters.

btw, if guys like rizzuto make it santo makes it easy.

vance
02-20-2005, 07:58 AM
i believe you're asking too much from cub haters.

btw, if guys like rizzuto make it santo makes it easy.

I think Mazeroski was the one who finally watered down the Hall.

Jabroni
02-20-2005, 08:02 AM
Sosa belongs. He'll retire with over 600 homeruns and the only player to ever hit over 60 homers in a season, twice. If you don't think he belongs, then I guess you don't think Bonds belongs either. As much as we may not like the steroid controversy, and I wish that players were clean, it wasn't against the rules at the time, and there will never be a way to irrefutably prove one way or another that a player did roids. There are suspicions around Sosa, and there should be, but regardless his accomplishments stand. Just as we don't hold it against Ruth that he never had to face a black pitcher.

And yes, I have said on numerous places and occasions that Frank Thomas belongs. (Unless you want to bring in the "great teammate argument you've tried against Santo) I don't think Thomas will be a first ballot guy, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't. That's more a statement against the voters.1.) It wasn't against the rules at the time? :tongue: Do you honestly think these guys weren't doing roids even after they were considered a banned substance by the MLB. Come on... :rolleyes:

2.) Suspicions surrounding Sosa? Come on, use your eyes man! :rolleyes:

3.) Can you name one thing that Frank did to his teammates to make him known as a team cancer like Santo? :?:

4.) And no, I don't think any steroid-users should make the Hall, Bonds included.

vance
02-20-2005, 08:16 AM
1.) It wasn't against the rules at the time? :tongue: Do you honestly think these guys weren't doing roids even after they were considered a banned substance by the MLB. Come on... :rolleyes:

I personally don't know when or if they did roids. You don't know either. We can only guess and I wouldn't keep someone out on my guess.

2.) Suspicions surrounding Sosa? Come on, use your eyes man! :rolleyes: So steroids can be detecting just by using my eyes. Wow...I didn't know the "visual" test was part of detecting a substance abuser. I think I'll go with more scientific means. Use your brain on this one.



4.) And no, I don't think any steroid-users should make the Hall, Bonds included.

You're likely in the minority there. And since there is no irrefutable way to know, I won't keep anyone out on suspicion alone. Now that the league has instituted testing, I may have a different view on a player who actually tests positive. MLB dropped the ball for years on the steroid issue, but I don't think we wipe away the numbers based on suspicion.

Jabroni
02-20-2005, 08:32 AM
So steroids can be detecting just by using my eyes. Wow...I didn't know the "visual" test was part of detecting a substance abuser. I think I'll go with more scientific means. Use your brain on this one.How about YOU use your eyes AND your brain on this one...

http://www.bracephoto.com/images/players/Untitled-23.jpghttp://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20050129/i/r4029686636.jpg

Please don't try to tell me that that is natural size and muscle growth. :rolleyes: Hell, my biceps are bigger right now than what Sosa's were when he was on the White Sox. Also, how do you explain Sosa's hat size increasing? That's a side-effect of taking growth hormones, incase you didn't know. Do I even have to discuss the "Incredible Shrinking Sammy (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/3362128)?" How he has lost 35 pounds over the past 2 seasons? Give me a break. Go back to drinking your Cubby Kool-Aid with your eyes closed.

vance
02-20-2005, 08:47 AM
How about YOU use your eyes AND your brain on this one...



Please don't try to tell me that that is natural size and muscle growth. :rolleyes: Also, how do you explain Sosa's hat size increasing? That's a side-effect of taking growth hormones, incase you didn't know. Do I even have to discuss the "Incredible Shrinking Sammy" (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/3362128)? How he has lost 35 pounds over the past 2 seasons? Give me a break. Go back to drinking your Cubby Kool-Aid with your eyes closed.

So, are we to expect everyone who has seen size gains over the year? I didn't say it wasn't likely. In fact, it is very likely that he did steroids, but I said that neither you or I know that he did. We can assume all we want, but it is still just an assumption.

And how do you know that Frank didn't take steroids? We don't. I don't think he did. I put that in bold before someone accuses me of saying that he did. The fact remains, apart from an eye-witness account or a positive test, we don't know who did or didn't use. Suspicions are all we have.

Jabroni
02-20-2005, 08:51 AM
So, are we to expect everyone who has seen size gains over the year? I didn't say it wasn't likely. In fact, it is very likely that he did steroids, but I said that neither you or I know that he did. We can assume all we want, but it is still just an assumption.

And how do you know that Frank didn't take steroids? We don't. I don't think he did. I put that in bold before someone accuses me of saying that he did. The fact remains, apart from an eye-witness account or a positive test, we don't know who did or didn't use. Suspicions are all we have.Because Frank was always gigantic. He was the same size in college when he played tight end for Auburn, that's why.

As far as Sosa goes... he started out as a small center fielder, got HUGE, and now he's mysteriously losing alot of weight. Hmmm, sounds just like Giambi. That's a big difference than simply being HUGE for your entire career like Frank.

pearso66
02-20-2005, 10:47 AM
I think the kicker for sammy is didnt he say something along the lines of he never worked out during the offseason until Baker came along? I might be mistaken, but I seem to remember that being said.

BigEdWalsh
02-20-2005, 11:17 AM
If Santo does go in do you think he'll wear a White Sox hat?
There are a number of guys in the Hall who I don't think belong there. Brooks Robinson is one of them. He was incredible defensively and played a long time but that shouldn't merit his being enshrined. Santo was very good defensively and a better hitter than Robinson, but I think Santo is borderline Hall of Fame at best.

From todays Daily Southtown:
http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/202sd1.htm

SOXintheBURGH
02-20-2005, 11:20 AM
Does anyone remember that Simpsons episode where Lisa finds a book about Ron Santo and she chucks it away, and a bum comes and uses it for toilet paper? That ruled.

idseer
02-20-2005, 11:56 AM
If Santo does go in do you think he'll wear a White Sox hat?
There are a number of guys in the Hall who I don't think belong there. Brooks Robinson is one of them. He was incredible defensively and played a long time but that shouldn't merit his being enshrined. Santo was very good defensively and a better hitter than Robinson, but I think Santo is borderline Hall of Fame at best.

From todays Daily Southtown:
http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/202sd1.htm

there weren't many 3rd basemen in history as good as brooks was. if you are about the best ever at your position you don't think that's hall worthy?

idseer
02-20-2005, 12:02 PM
i'll give you mike schmidt and george brett ( and not sure i'd take brett over robinson)

eddie mathews may be in there but he had no glove. pie traynor? george kell?

who else you got?

after looking over history's 3rd basemen i believe santo should absolutely be in there! one of the great 3rd sackers of all time!

Ol' No. 2
02-20-2005, 12:08 PM
Santo in the HOF?

Oooooh, nooooooooooooooooooo!

Dick Allen
02-20-2005, 12:11 PM
I would be all for Santo making the Hall of Fame on one condition - that he goes as far away from Chicago as possible so I don't have to hear that nauseating voice of his again.

BigEdWalsh
02-20-2005, 12:11 PM
there weren't many 3rd basemen in history as good as brooks was. if you are about the best ever at your position you don't think that's hall worthy?

He may well have been the best fielding 3rd basemen ever. As for hitters, there have been loads of better 3rd basemen, in nearly any era. I don't think slick fielding is enough to warrant being in the HOF. Sorry, Brooks, Ozzie, Maz.

BigEdWalsh
02-20-2005, 12:21 PM
If Santo does go in do you think he'll wear a White Sox hat?
There are a number of guys in the Hall who I don't think belong there. Brooks Robinson is one of them. He was incredible defensively and played a long time but that shouldn't merit his being enshrined. Santo was very good defensively and a better hitter than Robinson, but I think Santo is borderline Hall of Fame at best.

From todays Daily Southtown:
http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/202sd1.htm

There's something weird about quoting my own post, but according to what I read in the Daily Southtown, Santo could go to the Hall as a broadcaster?!! That is totally absurd. If that were to happen, it would be a travashamockery!

C-Dawg
02-20-2005, 12:22 PM
who else you got?



Pete Rose! Although he spent as much time at 1B and in the outfield as he did at 3B.

C-Dawg
02-20-2005, 12:24 PM
Santo could go to the Hall as a broadcaster?!!

Maybe they want to use him as an example of a really bad announcer.

MUsoxfan
02-20-2005, 12:27 PM
If that were to happen, it would be a travashamockery!

The ULTIMATE travashamockery!:angry: Just start inducting mascots at this point because he's nothing but an incoherent, self-promoting cheerleader

idseer
02-20-2005, 12:31 PM
Pete Rose! Although he spent as much time at 1B and in the outfield as he did at 3B.

right ... not what i'd consider a 3rd baseman.

a lot of guys played a little at third. i'm talking about primarily and through most of their careers. not many stand up to robinson.

vance
02-20-2005, 12:32 PM
The ULTIMATE travashamockery!:angry: Just start inducting mascots at this point because he's nothing but an incoherent, self-promoting cheerleader

Were you describing Santo or Hawk Harrelson?

idseer
02-20-2005, 12:32 PM
He may well have been the best fielding 3rd basemen ever. As for hitters, there have been loads of better 3rd basemen, in nearly any era. I don't think slick fielding is enough to warrant being in the HOF. Sorry, Brooks, Ozzie, Maz.

he was maybe the best fielder. but now who else are you talking about that was so much better at the plate? and limit it to guys who played third through most of their careers.

i guess wade boggs would also be up there. but seriously, what other 3rd basemen have numbers like 2848 hits, 268 hr's and 1357 rbi's?

killebrew doesn't count either. only about 1/3 his career at 3rd.

idseer
02-20-2005, 12:46 PM
Pete Rose! Although he spent as much time at 1B and in the outfield as he did at 3B.

pete rose spent less than one fifth of his time at 3rd.
he wouldn't count as a thirdbaseman.

BigEdWalsh
02-20-2005, 12:48 PM
he was maybe the best fielder. but now who else are you talking about that was so much better at the plate? and limit it to guys who played third through most of their careers.

i guess wade boggs would also be up there. but seriously, what other 3rd basemen have numbers like 2848 hits, 268 hr's and 1357 rbi's?

But how do those numbers average out, the guy played a looong time? Better hitting 3rd basemen or in some cases, equally as good, Eddie Mathews, Pie Traynor, Mike Schmidt, George Brett, Wade Boggs, Edgar Martinez, Ron Santo, Robin Ventura, Ron Cey, Harmon Killebrew, Paul Molitor, Darrel Evans, Graig Nettles, Eddie Yost are some who come to mind.
Not fair to limit it to guys who played nothing but 3rd.:smile:

SOXSINCE'70
02-20-2005, 01:55 PM
I'd sooner endorse Dick Allen,Bill Melton,Chet Lemon,Carlos May
and Jorge Orta.Puh-leez!!!!:angry: :angry: :angry:

idseer
02-20-2005, 02:10 PM
But how do those numbers average out, the guy played a looong time? Better hitting 3rd basemen or in some cases, equally as good, Eddie Mathews, Pie Traynor, Mike Schmidt, George Brett, Wade Boggs, Edgar Martinez, Ron Santo, Robin Ventura, Ron Cey, Harmon Killebrew, Paul Molitor, Darrel Evans, Graig Nettles, Eddie Yost are some who come to mind.
Not fair to limit it to guys who played nothing but 3rd.:smile:

you have GOT to be kidding me with yost, cey, and martinez. or even nettles. nettles was good. no one that i ever heard of thought he was as good as robinson.
molitor? 791 out of 2683 games at 3rd?
martinez? 563 out of 2055 games at 3rd?


the fact brooks played a long time happens to be a plus! not a negative.
the fact he could play there that long while the others COULDN'T tells me he was superior. and i certainly will penalize others that played there only a small portion of their careers.
i'm talking about comparing great 3rd basemen ... not including everyone who ever tried out there.

i can't believe i'm having this discussion. brooks was one of the greatest 3rd basemen of all time! Robin Ventura, Ron Cey, Harmon Killebrew, Paul Molitor, Darrel Evans, Graig Nettles, Eddie Yost ... WEREN'T!

MUsoxfan
02-20-2005, 02:36 PM
Were you describing Santo or Hawk Harrelson?

Hawk is not up for the HOF. Also, Hawk is coherent and doesn't promote movies made about himself.

TDog
02-20-2005, 03:02 PM
Anyone who rated Ron Santo as being near Brooks Robinson defensively was overrating Santo -- who may still hold the record for most errors in an inning by a third baseman. Of course, anyone can have a bad inning, and it's not an oddity for a third basemen to be charged with two errors on the same play. But at the end of his career Santo wasn't clearly better defensively than Bill Melton except in some people's minds.

Brooks Robinson and Bill Mazeroski, of course, helped their HOF credentials by getting to the World Series. Brooks Robinson demonstrated in several Octobers that he was a great third baseman. I'm too young to remember his first Series, but I saw him do it against the Mets and the Pirates.

Jabroni
02-20-2005, 04:15 PM
Santo in the HOF?

Oooooh, nooooooooooooooooooo!:)

BigEdWalsh
02-20-2005, 07:24 PM
you have GOT to be kidding me with yost, cey, and martinez. or even nettles. nettles was good. no one that i ever heard of thought he was as good as robinson.
molitor? 791 out of 2683 games at 3rd?
martinez? 563 out of 2055 games at 3rd?


the fact brooks played a long time happens to be a plus! not a negative.
the fact he could play there that long while the others COULDN'T tells me he was superior. and i certainly will penalize others that played there only a small portion of their careers.
i'm talking about comparing great 3rd basemen ... not including everyone who ever tried out there.

i can't believe i'm having this discussion. brooks was one of the greatest 3rd basemen of all time! Robin Ventura, Ron Cey, Harmon Killebrew, Paul Molitor, Darrel Evans, Graig Nettles, Eddie Yost ... WEREN'T!

OK, Eddie Yost.....I was reaching. How about Frank Malzone?
Seriously, Brooks was the probably the best fielding 3rd baseman ever. As a hitter, no way! You'd have to be nuts to tell me he was near the best hitting 3rd baseman. All I was saying in the 1st place is his fielding abilities alone shouldn't get him into the Hall. His hitting stats alone certainly aren't good enough. He was decent but not Hall of Fame worthy as a hitter.

idseer
02-20-2005, 07:31 PM
OK, Eddie Yost.....I was reaching. How about Frank Malzone?
Seriously, Brooks was the probably the best fielding 3rd baseman ever. As a hitter, no way! You'd have to be nuts to tell me he was near the best hitting 3rd baseman. All I was saying in the 1st place is his fielding abilities alone shouldn't get him into the Hall. His hitting stats alone certainly aren't good enough. He was decent but not Hall of Fame worthy as a hitter.

the hall doesn't work that way. you think they base entry only on hitting? then why is aparicio in there?

they (supposedly) consider the big picture, including hitting, fielding, position (which is why some people think frank will have a tough time getting in on the first ballot) .... everything!
and looking at the big picture, brooks was one of the best thirdbasemen of all time. that's why he is worthy.

BigEdWalsh
02-20-2005, 07:38 PM
I just think that the Hall of Fame has been watered down through the years. It's kinda like there are certain tiers of greatness within the Hall. So, i'll agree with you that Aparicio AND Robinson would be on the same tier, along with Maz, Ozzie Smith and some others including some OLD Timers.

SOXSINCE'70
02-20-2005, 07:58 PM
I'm too young to remember his first Series, but I saw him do it against the Mets and the Pirates.

Don't forget the 1970 WS when the O's beat
the Pete Rose led Reds 4 games to none. He was a
rally stopper royale in that series.Anything hit down the
third base line,he caught it.If he didn't it was an error.

idseer
02-20-2005, 08:03 PM
I just think that the Hall of Fame has been watered down through the years. It's kinda like there are certain tiers of greatness within the Hall. So, i'll agree with you that Aparicio AND Robinson would be on the same tier, along with Maz, Ozzie Smith and some others including some OLD Timers.

i agree the hall is screwed up ... and that there should be some sort of tier arrangement. but it's always bothered me that certain position players don't get their due because they aren't big sluggers too.

fox was one of the best and yet it took the veterans committee to get him in. was fox a better second baseman than, say, billy williams was an outfielder? i say he was.
i think if you line up all the outfielders (or just left fielders) and line up all the second basemen fox would be higher on his list than williams would be on his. (i chose williams because i remember clearly an ignorant remark he made about fox getting into the hall. something along the lines of ... fox couldn't carry my jockstrap)

some people say that one position just isn't as important as another. i say bull hockey! other wise we wouldn't have small fast guys in the game. they'd all big big boppers at every position.

the hall is crappola. but it's still all there is. ergo the arguments. :smile:

BRDSR
02-20-2005, 08:11 PM
http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/chc/news/chc_news.jsp?ymd=20050219&content_id=946247&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp

I don't know what's more pathetic- the possibility that Santo might make the HOF as a player or as a broadcaster. Either way, if he makes it the prestige and credibility of the HOF will be severely weakened.

Broadcaster...by far. I once listened to an entire half inning in which he talked about a certain type of orthopedic pillow he used on road trips. And it was the top of the 9th in a close game. He is abysmal in the booth.

LongLiveFisk
02-20-2005, 08:32 PM
I can't say whether Santo belongs or not (I have to look at his numbers again) but isn't there some kind of limit as to how many times a player's name can be listed on the ballot? It just seems as though this horse has been beat enough already. If he was truly HOF material, then he should have been elected a long time ago for God's sake.

:santo
"Nooooooooo! Don't say that!"

misty60481
02-20-2005, 09:14 PM
If anybody should complain about not making the HOF it should be Billy Pierce--even Ted Williams & Al Lopez said he belonged--look at his records during the 50s and they compare with most top pitchers----

TommyJohn
02-20-2005, 10:31 PM
i
fox was one of the best and yet it took the veterans committee to get him in. was fox a better second baseman than, say, billy williams was an outfielder? i say he was.
i think if you line up all the outfielders (or just left fielders) and line up all the second basemen fox would be higher on his list than williams would be on his. (i chose williams because i remember clearly an ignorant remark he made about fox getting into the hall. something along the lines of ... fox couldn't carry my jockstrap)



Billy Williams said that? That sounds very uncharacteristic of him.

slavko
02-20-2005, 10:53 PM
Broadcaster...by far. I once listened to an entire half inning in which he talked about a certain type of orthopedic pillow he used on road trips. And it was the top of the 9th in a close game. He is abysmal in the booth.

Great quote. Sums up his broadcasting skills. Proves Pat Hughes can carry anyone. But he was a heckuva player. I'm surprised that no poster to this point has mentioned the 3rd baseman most comparable to Santo, roughly a NL contemporary of his, Tony Perez, who is in the HOF now after many years of failure. I saw them both and Perez was a better player.

JoseCanseco6969
02-22-2005, 09:39 AM
Sosa doesn't BELONG in the Hall of Fame but he will likely make it. And then there's Frank Thomas, the one Hall of Famer who DIDN'T take roids.

Yeah I think Frank should and will get much more credit for his accomplishments since this whole steroid thing came about; Providing that he stays healthy and puts up decent numbers this season. I dont see how he wont be a lock now for HOF especially since one of his biggest critics, the windsock, decided to say hes got his vote.

jortafan
02-22-2005, 02:22 PM
Relax people. Ron Santo is NOT getting into the Hall of Fame as a broadcaster.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_news.jsp?ymd=20050222&content_id=947900&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp

Not this time, at least.

MUsoxfan
02-22-2005, 02:30 PM
Relax people. Ron Santo is NOT getting into the Hall of Fame as a broadcaster.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_news.jsp?ymd=20050222&content_id=947900&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp

Not this time, at least.

That makes me feel better. I'd rather have him in as a player than a broadcaster. I don't support him going into the HOF as a player, but I think the Anaheim Rally Monkey is more deserving of a broadcasting HOF award than Santo

ChiSoxRowand
02-22-2005, 03:03 PM
If Santo goes into the hall as a broadcaster I might vow never to step foot in the hall of fame.

Chisox003
02-22-2005, 03:21 PM
If Santo goes into the hall as a broadcaster I might vow never to step foot in the hall of fame.

AS A BROADCASTER?!? AHH!!

I have to admit though...Listening to him grunt, whine and groan when the Flubs are losing, making errors, or making any mistake...:rolling:

It was more fun a few years ago when cubs baseball resembled that of a chinese fire drill...

But i still listen when I need a good laugh, its more of a "comedy" routine than a baseball broadcast

Fenway
02-22-2005, 03:27 PM
AS A BROADCASTER?!? AHH!!

I have to admit though...Listening to him grunt, whine and groan when the Flubs are losing, making errors, or making any mistake...:rolling:



He didn't get in that way either

http://www.boston.com/dailynews/053/sports/Jerry_Coleman_chosen_as_Ford_F:.shtml

COOPERSTOWN, N.Y. (AP) Jerry Coleman, the longtime voice of the San Diego Padres, was chosen as this year's winner of the Ford C. Frick Award.

Lip Man 1
02-22-2005, 05:30 PM
If any of you ever heard Jerry Coleman you'll realize this is just as bad as if they were to let Santo in.

Coleman sounds as screwed up on the air as Harry did and unlike Caray, Coleman hasn't had any heart problems.

Lip

Hangar18
02-22-2005, 06:30 PM
I hope Santo overstays in the booth. He is a piss poor announcer,
bordering on incoherent. His meandering slurred commentary, followed
by inane and useless information (mrs Lefwiggins of Keokuk is here today/
Ever wonder why pudding got that way?) drags the ENTIRE broadcast
down, that even a mediocre guy who mugs for the microphone like Pat
Hughes gets brought into the bog himself. I laugh when I hear
those 2, because nowhere else in American sports can a guy like
that still have a job. hes a cub. hahahahahahahahahah. saps.

Stroker Ace
02-22-2005, 06:36 PM
Santo will never get in the hall.

TDog
02-22-2005, 08:50 PM
I have a feeling the broadcasters getting into the HOF, after the pioneers the honor was created for, are getting their because of their longevity and popularity with fans.

Santo meets such qualifications.