PDA

View Full Version : *official* Big Hurt Watch


Gammons Peter
02-18-2005, 01:43 PM
Looks like it'll be a while

mcfish
02-18-2005, 01:52 PM
Looks like it'll be a whileAnything more specific? March is only 10 days away. If he came March 1st, Frank would only be 1 week late.

Ol' No. 2
02-18-2005, 01:57 PM
Looks like it'll be a whileThey've been saying all along that he wouldn't be able to start working out until mid-March. So what difference does it make if he's in camp but not able to do anything?

Palehose13
02-18-2005, 02:03 PM
Is this new news? I think not:
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=45432

Once again the snore is on the ball! :rolleyes:

Kogs35
02-18-2005, 02:09 PM
who cares about the worlds stupidst and crapiest radio station.

jabrch
02-18-2005, 02:14 PM
who cares about the worlds stupidst and crapiest radio station.


stupidst? crapiest?

JUribe1989
02-18-2005, 02:18 PM
If he can't play until Mid-March I don't see any reason why he needs to come to camp. I think he should be used in limited time in Early April then used full time after that.

Gammons Peter
02-18-2005, 02:25 PM
Well the papers have been reporting that the Kenny and the Sox had been expecting Frank to report on time with the rest of the position players

Ol' No. 2
02-18-2005, 02:26 PM
Well the papers have been reporting that the Kenny and the Sox had been expecting Frank to report on time with the rest of the position playersBut if he's not going to be working out until mid-March, then

:whocares

LongLiveFisk
02-18-2005, 02:50 PM
stupidst? crapiest?

Are you suggesting that just like the teal police, we should also have the spelling police? :wink:

RKMeibalane
02-18-2005, 02:53 PM
This isn't news. KDW has said all along that he expects Thomas to be ready by mid-March. Even if Frank came to camp next week, he wouldn't be able to do anything for two weeks. What's the point of being in camp if he isn't able to work out with the rest of the team?

RKMeibalane
02-18-2005, 02:56 PM
Are you suggesting that just like the teal police, we should also have the spelling police? :wink:

I don't think he was suggesting that. I think it's more a matter of people needing to write and spell correctly. It can be extremely difficult to read some of the posts made on this board, especially those made by posters who have yet to master the English language, at least as far as their writing ability is concerned.

I am reminded of one poster in particular, who has not posted here in several months. This individual never used capital letters when he posted, which gave his posts the appearance of a long, unbroken collection of letters, rather than words and sentences.

petekat
02-18-2005, 02:57 PM
agree this is a total non-story. He's been exercising regularly, and monitored by Herm all that we can expect at this point. Godspeed on the recovery....
Till then, it will afford a great opportunity for Carl to pile up some ABs. Nice to see what he can deliver for the Sox over a full season, starting out with the team in camp....

This isn't news. KDW has said all along that he expects Thomas to be ready by mid-March. Even if Frank came to camp next week, he wouldn't be able to do anything for two weeks. What's the point of being in camp if he isn't able to work out with the rest of the team?

RKMeibalane
02-18-2005, 03:05 PM
agree this is a total non-story. He's been exercising regularly, and monitored by Herm all that we can expect at this point. Godspeed on the recovery....
Till then, it will afford a great opportunity for Carl to pile up some ABs. Nice to see what he can deliver for the Sox over a full season, starting out with the team in camp....

The only way this situation could have a negative outcome is if the media starts spreading rumors about when Frank should have been in camp. Both Williams and Thomas agree that mid-March is the target date for his return, at least to active workouts. When he starts playing in games is anyone's guess. I just hope the media minds their own business and doesn't try to blow this up.

kittle42
02-18-2005, 03:06 PM
Are you suggesting that just like the teal police, we should also have the spelling police? :wink:

You rang?

Mickster
02-18-2005, 03:07 PM
I just hope the media minds their own business and doesn't try to blow this up.

FAT CHANCE.

RKMeibalane
02-18-2005, 03:08 PM
You rang?

Officer kittle, we have a situation down here at WSI. It seems several individuals have spelled words illegally. Requesting backup.

Gammons Peter
02-18-2005, 03:08 PM
They wanted him in camp on time so the team doctors, trainers and coaches could have a look at him and evaluate his condition.

Ol' No. 2
02-18-2005, 03:13 PM
The only way this situation could have a negative outcome is if the media starts spreading rumors about when Frank should have been in camp. Both Williams and Thomas agree that mid-March is the target date for his return, at least to active workouts. When he starts playing in games is anyone's guess. I just hope the media minds their own business and doesn't try to blow this up.The media is so busy chugging Kubbie Kool-Aide they wouldn't notice if Joe Jackson walked into Sox camp.

RKMeibalane
02-18-2005, 03:14 PM
The media is so busy chugging Kubbie Kool-Aide they wouldn't notice if Joe Jackson walked into Sox camp.

That's true. After all, Lord Vader has been there since Wednesday, and nobody has said anything about it, yet. They're probably waiting until he strangles an umpire.

GiveMeSox
02-18-2005, 03:48 PM
Looks like it'll be a while

ESPN 1000 just reported this too.

Ol' No. 2
02-18-2005, 03:49 PM
ESPN 1000 just reported this too.It's on the Sox website. They're saying he'll be there on March 3 or 4.

RKMeibalane
02-18-2005, 03:51 PM
It's on the Sox website. They're saying he'll be there on March 3 or 4.

That makes sense. The games start around then, and so he probably wants to be able to use that time to work in the batting cage and get his timing back. Assuming that his ankle doesn't give him any additional problems, he will probably be ready for full game action a few weeks after that.

Mickster
02-18-2005, 04:03 PM
Here is the LINK (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-whitesox-thomas&prov=ap&type=lgns) for AP an article on the matter.

Win1ForMe
02-18-2005, 04:04 PM
The White Sox are already in mid-season form with their health updates. They offer an optimistic prognosis only to turn around and report the problem as more serious a few days later.

Chisox003
02-18-2005, 04:04 PM
That makes sense. The games start around then, and so he probably wants to be able to use that time to work in the batting cage and get his timing back. Assuming that his ankle doesn't give him any additional problems, he will probably be ready for full game action a few weeks after that.

When does Comcast start playing the games? How many are there?

Mickster
02-18-2005, 04:06 PM
The White Sox are already in mid-season form with their health updates. They offer an optimistic prognosis only to turn around and report the problem as more serious a few days later.

Lip, is that you???

Ol' No. 2
02-18-2005, 04:07 PM
The White Sox are already in mid-season form with their health updates. They offer an optimistic prognosis only to turn around and report the problem as more serious a few days later.From the beginning they said he'd be ready to begin working about mid-March. When did they ever say anything different?

Jaffar
02-18-2005, 04:21 PM
KW never said anything about Thomas' recovery. On wed he said we'll find out on Monday when Frank shows up for Camp. Friday Frank's doctor says he is not yet ready to do the spring workout. Isn't that pretty much the answer the media wanted? Frank will be late for camp because he is still rehabbing, it should be enough said.

MRKARNO
02-18-2005, 04:26 PM
It's on the Sox website. They're saying he'll be there on March 3 or 4.

So basically he'll miss some spring training games and will be ready for Opening Day. This is in fact great news because it is a comfirmation of Kenny's comments yesterday that Frank might be ready for Opening Day.

Ol' No. 2
02-18-2005, 04:28 PM
So basically he'll miss some spring training games and will be ready for Opening Day. This is in fact great news because it is a comfirmation of Kenny's comments yesterday that Frank might be ready for Opening Day.I haven't seen anything quoting Kenny saying Frank might be ready for opening day. IMO, that's a pipe dream.

Chisox003
02-18-2005, 04:48 PM
I was just reading around Yahoo, and I found this article written today...I got a laugh out of it, as it was the same ol' same ol' for Frank and our White Sox...Honestly, when will it stop?

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=fanball-whitesoxbighurtearni&prov=fanball&type=lgns

A little taste:
"When he's healthy, he is worth the risk, but when is he ever really healthy?"

Are you f***ing kidding me?? Guys, I really dont know what to think or say anymore...Was the "writer" for this article not watching baseball in the 90's?? Cmon....Once that 500th HR comes hes sure-fire Hall of Fame, if hes not already (obviously to us, he clearly is)....

The Sox never getting respect is one thing, as they havent won in 87 years to prove anybody wrong...But to single out Big Frank like this just makes you wonder

Id give anything to have a healthy Frank come back and just rip through the season on a final run to a ring...Where is April 4th when we need it?

(Also: Not the title, big bold letters at the top...)

rdivaldi
02-18-2005, 04:51 PM
I hate to diss Frank, but there is some truth to that statement. Out of the past 4 seasons he hasn't been able to finish 2 of them. Unfortunately the "injury prone" label has a right to stick.

Here's hoping he will bounce back.
:gulp:

Chisox003
02-18-2005, 04:54 PM
I hate to diss Frank, but there is some truth to that statement. Out of the past 4 seasons he hasn't been able to finish 2 of them. Unfortunately the "injury prone" label has a right to stick.

Here's hoping he will bounce back.
:gulp:

Ok in that sense, there is some truth to it....But to say that he's been injury plagued his entire career is completely untrue....

Mohoney
02-18-2005, 05:21 PM
Ok in that sense, there is some truth to it....But to say that he's been injury plagued his entire career is completely untrue....

His MVP's don't count! What about Wade Boggs? Wait, was he a Yankee back then?

Viva la Frank!

Lip Man 1
02-18-2005, 05:29 PM
Sorry if this has been posted. It's now the lead story on the Tribune web site. Some excerpts:

"Head trainer Herm Schneider said Friday that the team has "no real timetable" for Thomas' return.

"I am disappointed for him," manager Ozzie Guillen said. "We want to have him here, but I knew this was going to happen. ... That is why I prepared myself and my team to move on without Frank. When Frank is here, we will take care of him."

Thomas had a bone graft and two screws inserted on Oct. 6 to repair a partial stress fracture of his left ankle, injured while fielding a grounder June 17.

A decision on Thomas' return will be made after he meets with doctors the first week of March."

Lip

ma-gaga
02-18-2005, 05:29 PM
Personally, I like the other two articles. Garcia and Buehrle are going to be kept on an innings count apparently.

Ozzie is going to keep them under 240 this year.

Way to make a stand there. Gotta keep the young pitchers healthy!

RKMeibalane
02-18-2005, 05:31 PM
Sorry if this has been posted. It's now the lead story on the Tribune web site. Some excerpts:

"Head trainer Herm Schneider said Friday that the team has "no real timetable" for Thomas' return.

"I am disappointed for him," manager Ozzie Guillen said. "We want to have him here, but I knew this was going to happen. ... That is why I prepared myself and my team to move on without Frank. When Frank is here, we will take care of him."

Thomas had a bone graft and two screws inserted on Oct. 6 to repair a partial stress fracture of his left ankle, injured while fielding a grounder June 17.

A decision on Thomas' return will be made after he meets with doctors the first week of March."

Lip

That's pretty much the same thing we've heard thus far. I think the Cubune is trying to rain on the Sox parade by running this story.

Lip Man 1
02-18-2005, 05:33 PM
My impression from reading the story on the Tribune web site is that this is a lot more serious. I base it on the comments from Schneider directly and Ozzie.

Lip

Mohoney
02-18-2005, 05:35 PM
That's pretty much the same thing we've heard thus far. I think the Cubune is trying to rain on the Sox parade by running this story.

Meanwhile, in Mesa, Kerry Wood is optimistic about his impending 30 win season.

Lip Man 1
02-18-2005, 05:35 PM
RK:

Read the entire story for yourself, this sounds more involved. Also wasn't it posted on this web site just a day or so ago that Corey McPherrin stated that Thomas would be ready to go on Opening Day?

With respect the story sounds a lot different from what I've been reading on this web site the past few days.

Lip

NSSoxFan
02-18-2005, 05:38 PM
RK:

Read the entire story for yourself, this sounds more involved. Also wasn't it posted on this web site just a day or so ago that Corey McPherrin stated that Thomas would be ready to go on Opening Day?

With respect the story sounds a lot different from what I've been reading on this web site the past few days.

Lip

Corey McPherrin did report that Thomas would be in camp on Monday and based on reports be ready for opening day. Obviously, those reports were wrong. Now, I look at Frank returning anywhere from now until June.

RKMeibalane
02-18-2005, 05:40 PM
Until Frank actually shows up at Sox camp, I think we should take what's written in the papers with a grain of salt. I don't anyone here expected Frank to be ready for Opening Day, but I wouldn't say that he's going to miss three months, either. Until I actually see Frank in camp, I'm not going to jump to conclusions.

maurice
02-18-2005, 05:40 PM
That's pretty much the same thing we've heard thus far. I think the Cubune is trying to rain on the Sox parade by running this story.

Agreed. Everything I've seen assumed that Frank would not begin baseball-type workouts until some time in March and would do other types of PT in the meanwhile. Ozzie speculated that Frank should be in top shape in June, but admitted that he was only guessing. This "news" is completely consistent with all of that. It's logical that Frank would continue his PT work in Vegas and relocate to Tucson only after he is ready to begin baseball-type workouts.

Lip Man 1
02-18-2005, 05:46 PM
If you are interested here is the link to the AP story on the Tribune web site:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-050218soxthomas,1,6748264.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

Lip

Wanne
02-18-2005, 05:52 PM
I know this was probably hashed over a billion times already...but I don't know...so don't everybody jump down my throat...but if Frank was hurt in mid-June...why didn't he have the surgery til October?!? Were they just trying to see if it'd heal without surgery. Seems to me you'd be able to tell his progress by mid-August or so.

MRKARNO
02-18-2005, 05:55 PM
I haven't seen anything quoting Kenny saying Frank might be ready for opening day. IMO, that's a pipe dream.

Info's changed and thus it looks like he's more on track for the early May date that Kenny was quoting all along.

OurBitchinMinny
02-18-2005, 06:03 PM
I was just reading around Yahoo, and I found this article written today...I got a laugh out of it, as it was the same ol' same ol' for Frank and our White Sox...Honestly, when will it stop?

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=fanball-whitesoxbighurtearni&prov=fanball&type=lgns

A little taste:
"When he's healthy, he is worth the risk, but when is he ever really healthy?"

Are you f***ing kidding me?? Guys, I really dont know what to think or say anymore...Was the "writer" for this article not watching baseball in the 90's?? Cmon....Once that 500th HR comes hes sure-fire Hall of Fame, if hes not already (obviously to us, he clearly is)....

The Sox never getting respect is one thing, as they havent won in 87 years to prove anybody wrong...But to single out Big Frank like this just makes you wonder

Id give anything to have a healthy Frank come back and just rip through the season on a final run to a ring...Where is April 4th when we need it?

(Also: Not the title, big bold letters at the top...)

Whats the big freaking deal? The fact is since '01 he has been on the DL a lot. Not his fault, not the writers fault. Injuries happen.

MRKARNO
02-18-2005, 06:22 PM
OK the truth seems to be somewhere in between Lip's assertion and the optimistic assertions that he'll be ready by opening day made by yours truly a day ago.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_news.jsp?ymd=20050218&content_id=945630&vkey=spt2005news&fext=.jsp

This article states that they still expect him in camp March 3rd or 4th, not that big of a deal, but that there's no timetable for his return. So basically it's a wait and see thing. He probably wont be ready for Opening day, but he also won't be out until June like Ozzie said earlier. I would expect him anywhere between Mid-April and Mid-May at this point based on what we know. Him missing one month isnt the end of the world. 2 months might be though, so he better get back sooner rather than later.

RKMeibalane
02-18-2005, 06:23 PM
I know this was probably hashed over a billion times already...but I don't know...so don't everybody jump down my throat...but if Frank was hurt in mid-June...why didn't he have the surgery til October?!? Were they just trying to see if it'd heal without surgery. Seems to me you'd be able to tell his progress by mid-August or so.

Waiting for the injury to heal on its own is standard procedure. That's why they waited. I would add more, but I'm not a doctor. Beckett21 would be the person to ask if he were around, but I haven't seen him for a few days.

balke
02-18-2005, 06:37 PM
I'm not expecting him back in the lineup til july, so I'm not let down. I'd rather just not rush him. I have hope that we can float near the top w/o him in the 1st half, and make a run w/ him in the second.

I want a healthy full speed frank, not a tender ankle Frank recovering from surgery. The sooner the better I guess, but let it heal right.

Mickster
02-18-2005, 06:39 PM
I know this was probably hashed over a billion times already...but I don't know...so don't everybody jump down my throat...but if Frank was hurt in mid-June...why didn't he have the surgery til October?!? Were they just trying to see if it'd heal without surgery. Seems to me you'd be able to tell his progress by mid-August or so.

I'm too lazy to look for the thread but Doc "Beckett" was asked questions in a very enlightening post at the end of '04 regarding Hurt's treatment. Not uncommon to wait w/o surgery to see if it heals on it's own.

Ol' No. 2
02-18-2005, 07:52 PM
Info's changed and thus it looks like he's more on track for the early May date that Kenny was quoting all along.I think the information has been the same all along. It's people spinning it one way or the other that's changed. A couple of days ago people were all giddy that Frank was going to be back by opening day based on Corey McPherrin's say-so.:o: But what Kenny's been saying has been consistent all along. He'll begin baseball workouts in mid-March and they'll wait and see how things develop. Anything else is just spin.

beckett21
02-18-2005, 07:56 PM
I know this was probably hashed over a billion times already...but I don't know...so don't everybody jump down my throat...but if Frank was hurt in mid-June...why didn't he have the surgery til October?!? Were they just trying to see if it'd heal without surgery. Seems to me you'd be able to tell his progress by mid-August or so.

What RK and Mickster said is correct.

There was a chance that the injury would heal on its own, but the only way to know that was to invest the appropriate amount of time to actually allow it to heal. Once surgery is performed, think of it as resetting the shot clock in basketball--the healing process begins anew. You are starting again from day 1.

Any hope he would have had to have come back at the end of last year would have been by healing through nonsurgical means. Also, these types of injuries are always treated conservatively first, meaning anywhere from 8-12, sometimes up to 16 weeks of immobilization (cast and/or walking boot). You re-evaluate periodically for pain; if it still hurts, it's not healed.

Basically, there is no way to know if this type of fracture is going to heal on its own or not until you actually wait that long and see. Once he was diagnosed last year, surgery would have been season-ending for sure. There was still a chance he could have made it back into the lineup for the playoffs by putting off surgery, but as it turns out it was a moot point anyway.

Nonetheless, in my personal professional opinion the situation was handled appropriately FWIW. Unfortunately he did ultimately require surgery, but there was no way to know that without a crystal ball.

beckett21
02-18-2005, 08:07 PM
Beckett21 would be the person to ask if he were around, but I haven't seen him for a few days.

I'm still around. :redneck

Lately I have been spending most of my time here in the Parking Lot obsessing about the Illini and in Fantasy Island, but I'll start paying attention to the *Frank Watch* and offer up any pearls of wisdom I may have. Right now, I think it's pretty much just a wait-and-see approach. I would expect him to miss the first month of the season, but I am not basing that on anything other than a hunch--JMO. Hopefully I am wrong. I haven't seen enough credible info one way or another for me to give an educated estimate on his return, so I honestly have no idea.

His injury is a tough one for anybody to recoup from, much less an athlete of his size and stature. We'll just have to wait and see I'm afraid.

I'll actually be away on vacation next week, leaving tomorrow, but I'll check in periodically if I see anything of interest. :cool:

Win1ForMe
02-18-2005, 10:48 PM
I'm getting the impression that many on this thread are somehow in denial re: Frank's injury status. I'm really more or less taking the Ozzie attitude on the matter, thinking we're good enough to play well without him and not really worrying about when he returns. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have Thomas back in the lineup ASAP, but right now, my reaction is nothing more than a shrug of the shoulders.

Phil Rogers had a decent write-up of this as well (and also mentioned, much like Bob Foltman earlier in the week, that 2005 is likely Frank's last year in a Sox uniform)

You would think this would be a big deal for a club that already has subtracted Magglio Ordonez and Carlos Lee. But manager Ozzie Guillen didn't appear too upset. Nor did anyone else with the organization.

In fact, Guillen made it sound like the White Sox are just fine with Carl Everett, Ross Gload and Timo Perez in the designated hitter spot.
............
But and here's the part I hope to be wrong about it looks as if 2005 could turn into a painful farewell for one of the best right-handed hitters in baseball history.

There's little doubt it will be his last year in Chicago, as general manager Ken Williams seems ready to hand him a $3.5 million severance rather than exercise a $10 million option after the season. But it would be nice if he could go out somewhat in style.
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-050218rogers,1,2203176.column?coll=cs-home-utility

CarlosMay'sThumb
02-18-2005, 10:54 PM
I think the information has been the same all along. It's people spinning it one way or the other that's changed. A couple of days ago people were all giddy that Frank was going to be back by opening day based on Corey McPherrin's say-so.:o: But what Kenny's been saying has been consistent all along. He'll begin baseball workouts in mid-March and they'll wait and see how things develop. Anything else is just spin.
Wait a minute. That's not what any of these articles have said. It does not say anywhere that Frank will "begin baseball workouts in mid-March". What they all say is that Frank will show up in Tucson in early March and then be evaluated by team doctors.

"Head trainer Herm Schneider said Friday that the team has ``no real timetable'' for Thomas' return". To me that means that Schneider has no idea when Thomas will play again. It can only be a bad sign if nobody knows when Frank will return 5 months after surgery and 8 months after the injury. With Frank's recent track record of being injury-prone, I think it's unlikely he makes a significant contribution this year.

Deadguy
02-18-2005, 11:33 PM
My impression from reading the story on the Tribune web site is that this is a lot more serious. I base it on the comments from Schneider directly and Ozzie.

Lip

This was all stated in the yahoo article posted in this thread:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-whitesox-thomas&prov=ap&type=lgns

For whatever reason, Foltman needs to add this garbage, that the AP stories left out:

With a player option for $10 million for 2006, it's expected the Sox will exercise their option to buyout Thomas for $3.5 million, possibly bringing a close to a 15-year Sox career. Thomas, in essence, is playing for a new contract.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-050218soxthomas,1,6748264.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

Even the beat writer can't keep his opinion to himself on this issue. If he is stating a "fact", then he should explain what he is basing the above comment on, whether it be an anonymous quote from someone in the organization, or some other inside dirt. If not, this isn't a column, and people read these articles to gather as much information on their favorite team as possible, not media instigated soap operas.

EDITED: To change second link to Foltman's story.

Jabroni
02-18-2005, 11:46 PM
Frank has a $10 million player option for 2006. The Sox have a $12 million team option on Frank for 2006 or a $3.5 million buyout. Any speculation on what the Sox will do with Frank in 2006 before the 2005 season has even started is ridiculous.

CarlosMay'sThumb
02-19-2005, 09:22 AM
Frank has a $10 million player option for 2006. The Sox have a $12 million team option on Frank for 2006 or a $3.5 million buyout. Any speculation on what the Sox will do with Frank in 2006 before the 2005 season has even started is ridiculous.
Ridiculous? I don't think so. It's obvious Frank will play only a fraction of this season and he has had significant injuries late in his career. It would be "ridiculous" to even consider paying him 12 million dollars - even if he had a great half a season this year.

Jabroni
02-19-2005, 09:28 AM
Ridiculous? I don't think so. It's obvious Frank will play only a fraction of this season and he has had significant injuries late in his career. It would be "ridiculous" to even consider paying him 12 million dollars - even if he had a great half a season this year.I never said whether or not Frank is worth the money. I said that it's ridiculous to speculate whether or not Kenny will buyout Frank's contract. It's still an entire year away from concern.

CarlosMay'sThumb
02-19-2005, 10:35 AM
I never said whether or not Frank is worth the money. I said that it's ridiculous to speculate whether or not Kenny will buyout Frank's contract. It's still an entire year away from concern.
I don't think it's ridiculous to speculate on whether or not Kenny will buy out Frank's contract now. Certainly, I hope Kenny is speculating about it right now - and thinking about replacements - even for this year because if Frank still has "no timetable" for his return 8 months after his injury his playing abilities this year is suspect. Relying on Everett to stay healthy and be productive is also a bad idea.

Jabroni
02-19-2005, 10:51 AM
I don't think it's ridiculous to speculate on whether or not Kenny will buy out Frank's contract now. Certainly, I hope Kenny is speculating about it right now - and thinking about replacements - even for this year because if Frank still has "no timetable" for his return 8 months after his injury his playing abilities this year is suspect. Relying on Everett to stay healthy and be productive is also a bad idea.Here's some speculation: WE HAVE NO CLUE!!!

Only Kenny and JR know, and they may not even be sure on what they want to do yet.

RKMeibalane
02-19-2005, 10:52 AM
Here's some speculation: WE HAVE NO CLUE!!!

Only Kenny and JR know, and they may not even be sure on what they want to do yet.

Thank you. Let's worry about 2006 once 2005 is over.

JKryl
02-19-2005, 12:20 PM
Kenny and Ozzie were interviewed on Comcast Sports last night (the 18th), and the way they were back peddling with respect to Frank's return, I think it's a way down the road. And, bye the way, no one has ever answered the question as to why Frank waited until October to have his surgery, when he went out with an injury in May. He knew what the recovery time was, and he knew he'd screw up the beginning of the season by delaying. :mad:

MRKARNO
02-19-2005, 12:22 PM
Thank you. Let's worry about 2006 once 2005 is over.

Bingo. No reason to worry about it now when we haven't even seen what Frank will do in 2005. That's gotta play a big role in any decision that Kenny makes. We cannot know what Frank will do yet, it's impossible.

gosox41
02-19-2005, 12:23 PM
Kenny and Ozzie were interviewed on Comcast Sports last night (the 18th), and the way they were back peddling with respect to Frank's return, I think it's a way down the road. And, bye the way, no one has ever answered the question as to why Frank waited until October to have his surgery, when he went out with an injury in May. He knew what the recovery time was, and he knew he'd screw up the beginning of the season by delaying. :mad:

I read an article about this last October (can't remember where).

He waited on the advice of doctors. There was a risk to the surgery that it wouldn't work. The doctors felt if things could heal naturally they would heal stronger and be less likely of a future setback.

After a couple of months the ankle wasn't healin and surgery was required.


Bob

Ol' No. 2
02-19-2005, 08:01 PM
Kenny and Ozzie were interviewed on Comcast Sports last night (the 18th), and the way they were back peddling with respect to Frank's return, I think it's a way down the road. And, bye the way, no one has ever answered the question as to why Frank waited until October to have his surgery, when he went out with an injury in May. He knew what the recovery time was, and he knew he'd screw up the beginning of the season by delaying. :mad:The question was answered IN THIS VERY THREAD. Reading...it's a skill.:(:

shoota
02-21-2005, 02:34 AM
Frank needs to just worry about himself and his rehab right now. I'm thinking like KW now when he said that Frank knows Frank best and when he can return. If I was frank, i'd rather be in vegas two more weeks. Team chemistry is important and teammates need to start off on a good vibe and be happy. So let him take two more weeks in Vegas. I look it at it like this is just two less weeks frank has to put up with reporters.

Flight #24
02-21-2005, 10:25 AM
Ridiculous? I don't think so. It's obvious Frank will play only a fraction of this season and he has had significant injuries late in his career. It would be "ridiculous" to even consider paying him 12 million dollars - even if he had a great half a season this year.

There are realistically, 3 options here, all based on Frank's performance. If he dominates (ala 2004 pre-injury), muddles along, or just plain sucks due to injury or whatever.

If he dominates, then he'd probably make something close to or greater than the $12mil Sox option. The Sox would have to question whether they'd be better off with Frank or an $8.5mil replacement (since they have a $3.5mil buyout). Given the FA prices that were thrown around this offseason, I doubt they'd be able to find a replacement of anywhere near the quality of 2004 Frank-->Likely keep him or negotiate an extension.

If he "muddles along", not being great, but not sucking - likely with a lower average but continued great OBP and decent SLG, then they'll decline the $12mil. Frank will almost certainly exercise the $10mil. Then the Sox will have to decide if they can get a suitable replacement for $6.5mil (net of the buyout). I'd guess they can find a .260-.280 hitter with similar SLG, but not the OBP. Add in the PR value of Frank sticking around, making a run at 500 with the team, and the potential upside given his performance when fully healthy, and I'd guess they'd keep him around. Again, an extension wouldn't be out of the question that drops his salary a bit but lets him retire a ChiSox.

If he just plain sucks, then all bets are off. But I'd guess that's the least likely scenario.

So unless Sox management lets personal feelings get in the way of a smart decision, I'd guess that it's actually very unlikely that Frank is not here after 2005 because it doesn't make sense from a value perspective given the buyout and the type of player you could sign for the savings.

Ol' No. 2
02-21-2005, 12:36 PM
There are realistically, 3 options here, all based on Frank's performance. If he dominates (ala 2004 pre-injury), muddles along, or just plain sucks due to injury or whatever.

If he dominates, then he'd probably make something close to or greater than the $12mil Sox option. The Sox would have to question whether they'd be better off with Frank or an $8.5mil replacement (since they have a $3.5mil buyout). Given the FA prices that were thrown around this offseason, I doubt they'd be able to find a replacement of anywhere near the quality of 2004 Frank-->Likely keep him or negotiate an extension.

If he "muddles along", not being great, but not sucking - likely with a lower average but continued great OBP and decent SLG, then they'll decline the $12mil. Frank will almost certainly exercise the $10mil. Then the Sox will have to decide if they can get a suitable replacement for $6.5mil (net of the buyout). I'd guess they can find a .260-.280 hitter with similar SLG, but not the OBP. Add in the PR value of Frank sticking around, making a run at 500 with the team, and the potential upside given his performance when fully healthy, and I'd guess they'd keep him around. Again, an extension wouldn't be out of the question that drops his salary a bit but lets him retire a ChiSox.

If he just plain sucks, then all bets are off. But I'd guess that's the least likely scenario.

So unless Sox management lets personal feelings get in the way of a smart decision, I'd guess that it's actually very unlikely that Frank is not here after 2005 because it doesn't make sense from a value perspective given the buyout and the type of player you could sign for the savings.I think you nailed it. Would that Bob Foltman and Phil Rogers could think so clearly.

Lip Man 1
02-21-2005, 12:59 PM
Flight says: "So unless Sox management lets personal feelings get in the way of a smart decision..."

Be afraid...be VERY afraid.

Lip

champagne030
02-21-2005, 01:16 PM
Flight says: "So unless Sox management lets personal feelings get in the way of a smart decision..."

Be afraid...be VERY afraid.

Lip

or a jerry favorite (cheaper solution): rowand in right + spod in center + brian anderson in left + dye at dh = more bling bling for him and stern......