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gosox41
02-17-2005, 08:36 AM
This tidbit was mentioned in another thread from Lip regarding Frank in today's Tribune:

"It's expected that no matter what kind of numbers Thomas puts up, the club will buy him out of his contract at the end of the year-ending Thomas' Sox career."

Now the isue here isn't weather this is shady journlism by Foltman. The issue is: Assuming Frank is healthy, should Frank retire as a White Sox?

I've been slowly gaining respect for KW as he has finally gotten some sort of clue about the team. But as it has been widely reported at WSI, it was KW who exercised the diminshing skills clause inthe contract after '02. It was JR who worked out a deal behind KW's back to keep Frank here.

Outside ofgoing deep into the playoffs this year if KW doesn't want to be ripped by me (and probably others) he needs to keep Frank here. If Frank is still a productive, healthy player (which I expect him to be) then there should be no issue of whether or not he should be a White sox for life.

It's time for the fans to speak now and make our voices heard to Sox managment regarding Frank. To do it before it's too late and management makes a foolish decision (which I believe KW has already made) or to change their minds now before they start out planning for life without Frank.


Bob

hold2dibber
02-17-2005, 08:49 AM
This tidbit was mentioned in another thread from Lip regarding Frank in today's Tribune:

"It's expected that no matter what kind of numbers Thomas puts up, the club will buy him out of his contract at the end of the year-ending Thomas' Sox career."

Now the isue here isn't weather this is shady journlism by Foltman. The issue is: Assuming Frank is healthy, should Frank retire as a White Sox?

I've been slowly gaining respect for KW as he has finally gotten some sort of clue about the team. But as it has been widely reported at WSI, it was KW who exercised the diminshing skills clause inthe contract after '02. It was JR who worked out a deal behind KW's back to keep Frank here.

Outside ofgoing deep into the playoffs this year if KW doesn't want to be ripped by me (and probably others) he needs to keep Frank here. If Frank is still a productive, healthy player (which I expect him to be) then there should be no issue of whether or not he should be a White sox for life.

It's time for the fans to speak now and make our voices heard to Sox managment regarding Frank. To do it before it's too late and management makes a foolish decision (which I believe KW has already made) or to change their minds now before they start out planning for life without Frank.


Bob

I completely agree. I plan to write a letter to Reinsdorf and to KW to convince them to make sure Frank never plays in another uniform. I'll send one to Frank, too. It would be a shame to see him play out the string, or hit hits 500th, somewhere else.

idseer
02-17-2005, 09:18 AM
i am voting yes but only because of the way you set this poll up.
there's a lot of big 'ifs' here.

IF he remains productive.
IF he stays healthy
IF the price is right

but then ... i would say this about any player. wouldn't we all?

but i say that IF the club can be strengthened somehow by moving frank thomas ... i say move him.
there is no special prize given to anyone just because a player remains on one club his whole career.

team first ..... everything else after.

Baby Fisk
02-17-2005, 09:24 AM
It would be a shame if Frank had to end his career bouncing from team to team for the sake of 500 HRs. The long goodbye of Fred McGriff comes to mind. That's a fate I would never want to befall the big guy. He should end his career in dignity, when the time is right, with the Sox.

Oh my God, just thinking about Frank leaving the Sox makes me want to break out in tears of hysteria! :whiner: Why, God? Why?! [*rolling and kicking on the floor, tearing at his hair*]

mweflen
02-17-2005, 09:33 AM
Well, the thought of Frank leaving does make me sad, no teal whatsoever.

It's such a rare thing nowadays for a player to stay with one team. Frank to me is like a prickly family member. Sometimes at holidays he gets into arguments, but in general, he's a family member you like to have around.

Especially after the Maggs bitterness (which reminds me of the Ventura bitterness, and the Fisk bitterness), seeing Frank go is not something I want to do.

soxfan26
02-17-2005, 10:50 AM
Absolutely. Provided he is healthy and productive there is no reason to part with Frank.

But the real question is...
:sopranos

"Which one of ya voted no?"

jabrch
02-17-2005, 10:57 AM
Awesome Sig BabyFisk. I loved those 82 Tops In-Action cards.

Baby Fisk
02-17-2005, 11:01 AM
Awesome Sig BabyFisk. I loved those 82 Tops In-Action cards.
Thanks jabrch. Those are the uniforms I liked best (without the shorts).

Whoever voted NO must be the same cruel bastard who always votes for the "This Poll Sucks!" option in my polls. :cool:

owensmouth
02-17-2005, 11:47 AM
Whether you, me or all the dead saints in the Roman Catholic church want Frank to remain means nothing to Kenny Williams. He wants Frank gone.

There is only one person with the power to tell Williams not to dump Frank Thomas.

If things go badly this year, Williams may not have any authority to exercise any option. If the Sox are successful, Williams will get rid of Thomas.

Flight #24
02-17-2005, 11:57 AM
Whether you, me or all the dead saints in the Roman Catholic church want Frank to remain means nothing to Kenny Williams. He wants Frank gone.

There is only one person with the power to tell Williams not to dump Frank Thomas.

If things go badly this year, Williams may not have any authority to exercise any option. If the Sox are successful, Williams will get rid of Thomas.

If the Sox are successful, it will almost certainly involve a very good season from Frank Thomas. That will in turn make him either a)a good value at $10 or $12mil, or b)interest JR in keeping him.

KW may not like Frank, but he's not a moron. He's not going to let Frank go unless he's got an upgrade/better value in mind. I don't see that happening based on the list of 2005-2006 FAs.

pinwheels3530
02-17-2005, 11:58 AM
Who voted NO!!!!!!.......:kukoo:

gosox41
02-17-2005, 12:24 PM
Absolutely. Provided he is healthy and productive there is no reason to part with Frank.

But the real question is...
:sopranos

"Which one of ya voted no?"

Just to take this one step further, what if Frank's numbers decline to "only"25-30 HR's while maintaining a.350-.360 OBP? Not Frank Thomas numbers, but in my mind definitely worth keeping around.


Bob

hose
02-17-2005, 12:26 PM
Should Frank be a Sox for life? .....YES

Will Frank be a Sox for life? .....NO

It all comes down to the buy out after this season which is something in the neighborhood of $3 million or keeping Frank on board for $12 million.

I think it would be a good investment to keep Frank until retirement and start promoting him big time. Make the Big Hurt the face of the White Sox and it's greatest representative in the Hall of Fame.

gosox41
02-17-2005, 12:27 PM
If the Sox are successful, it will almost certainly involve a very good season from Frank Thomas. That will in turn make him either a)a good value at $10 or $12mil, or b)interest JR in keeping him.

KW may not like Frank, but he's not a moron. He's not going to let Frank go unless he's got an upgrade/better value in mind. I don't see that happening based on the list of 2005-2006 FAs.

I hope so. Frank is one of my all time favorites and it would be a shame to let a future HOFer go. I always told my wife that I plan on making my first trip to Cooperstown when Frank is voted in.

As for KW not being a moron, I have my doubts. His recent activity gives me some faith that he's actually learning but this is the same guy who wanted Frank off the team after '02. He's also the same who who got upset that Frank wouldn't sit on the bench as a decoy last year against the Angels. So, KW seems to be getting smarter, but I'm taking it one step at a time.




Bob

gosox41
02-17-2005, 12:31 PM
I completely agree. I plan to write a letter to Reinsdorf and to KW to convince them to make sure Frank never plays in another uniform. I'll send one to Frank, too. It would be a shame to see him play out the string, or hit hits 500th, somewhere else.

I'm going to do the same. I know it's early, but I believe in being proactive about things and not waiting until a week before his contract expires. I also believe that if the Sox should miss out on the playoffs by a game or so there will be such disappointment among Sox fans that this will get overlooked. I'm probably obsessing, but Frank is an all time great. For those who don't appreciate his offensive capabilities, it's a shame. And this steroid scandal further shows how great he is compared to the other lunkheads who bloated up and still can't compete with him.


Bob

Flight #24
02-17-2005, 12:49 PM
Just to take this one step further, what if Frank's numbers decline to "only"25-30 HR's while maintaining a.350-.360 OBP? Not Frank Thomas numbers, but in my mind definitely worth keeping around.


Bob

In all fairness, at those #s, Frank's by no means a bargain or even a good value at $10-12mil. So if that is indeed Frank's performance, KW may well say "I can make better use of that $$$", and either try to resign Frank at a lower rate more commensurate with his #s or let him go. While I'd be upset to see Frank leave, unless we see a budget bump, I'd be reluctant to pay him that amount of $$$ for those #s.

Worth keeping around? Definitely. But worth it at $10-12mil? Unlikely.

voodoochile
02-17-2005, 01:11 PM
In all fairness, at those #s, Frank's by no means a bargain or even a good value at $10-12mil. So if that is indeed Frank's performance, KW may well say "I can make better use of that $$$", and either try to resign Frank at a lower rate more commensurate with his #s or let him go. While I'd be upset to see Frank leave, unless we see a budget bump, I'd be reluctant to pay him that amount of $$$ for those #s.

Worth keeping around? Definitely. But worth it at $10-12mil? Unlikely.

The net opportunity cost is only going to be 6.5M if Frank accepts his option. The team owes him 3.5M regardless.

Ol' No. 2
02-17-2005, 01:32 PM
The net opportunity cost is only going to be 6.5M if Frank accepts his option. The team owes him 3.5M regardless.And it will probably cost that much to replace him. Everett's option is, IIRC, $5M.

It seems we're piling speculation on top of speculation here. IF Thomas has a good/bad year, IF Kenny wants to replace him, IF Reinsdorf decides he wants Frank to retire a White Sox...on and on. The guy hasn't even shown up for spring training yet and we're worrying about whether he'll be around NEXT year?

Don't lose your grip now, guys. We're almost there. Only two more weeks until there's some actual baseball being played.:D:

ja1022
02-17-2005, 01:55 PM
This was kind of covered a couple of weeks ago, but the short answer to your question as it is worded is absolutely yes. If he is healthy and productive, Frank should finish his career here.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=44839&highlight=frank+thomas

balke
02-17-2005, 02:21 PM
I'd overpay to keep him here. He's one of the top 5 most exciting batters in the league IMO. He has lost a lot of money playing for this team, injuries are unfortunate.. but all it takes is one good season to bring him to superstar status nationwide.

Look at Griffey, imagine him having one good healthy season in a balco free era. I love first inning homeruns, and intentional walks. We lose him, we won't see an intentional walk for years to come. Keep 35, or lose this fan.

gosox41
02-17-2005, 02:42 PM
And it will probably cost that much to replace him. Everett's option is, IIRC, $5M.

It seems we're piling speculation on top of speculation here. IF Thomas has a good/bad year, IF Kenny wants to replace him, IF Reinsdorf decides he wants Frank to retire a White Sox...on and on. The guy hasn't even shown up for spring training yet and we're worrying about whether he'll be around NEXT year?

Don't lose your grip now, guys. We're almost there. Only two more weeks until there's some actual baseball being played.:D:

It shows how little faith I have in KW to put his ego aside and do what's right. And like I said, I'd rather be proactive and not reactive. KW has wanted Frank off this team before and it was JR who saved the day. Whose to say it's going to happen that way again unless the fans speak out.

Now for a good PR move I'd like to see the Sox lock Frank up during the season when he proves he's healthy. There's no reason for this speculation to go on once Frank is healthy. If Frank were 100% all of last season, I'd be calling for this previous off season. I can see where they want to see if he's healthy. But once he is there's no reason to get rid of him unless KW likes to piss off the fans.

Personaly, if the Sox don't go far in the playoffs this year or even contend, Sox fans are already going to be upset. If they let Frank go on top of that it will really piss die hard Frank fans like me off.


Bob

Jabroni
02-17-2005, 02:54 PM
I posted this in another thread. Frank has a $12 million team option and a $3.5 million buyout for 2006. Everett has a $5 million team option and a $500,000 buyout for 2006. Here are our options at DH in 2006...

Dump Everett, keep Frank as our DH in 2006: $12.5 million
Dump Frank, keep Everett as our DH in 2006: $8.5 million
Dump both, go with someone else as our DH: $4.0 million

If Frank is healthy and has a good season this year, I think keeping Frank and dumping Everett for 2006 is the best option. $12.5 million isn't very expensive for the numbers that Frank can put up when healthy. Afterall, we just paid Magg$ $14 million last season.

Ol' No. 2
02-17-2005, 02:58 PM
I posted this in another thread. Frank has a $12 million team option and a $3.5 million buyout for 2006. Everett has a $5 million team option and a $500,000 buyout for 2006. Here are our options at DH in 2006...

Dump Everett, keep Frank as our DH in 2006: $12.5 million
Dump Frank, keep Everett as our DH in 2006: $8.5 million
Dump both, go with someone else as our DH: $4.0 million

If Frank is healthy and has a good season this year, I think keeping Frank and dumping Everett for 2006 is the best option. $12.5 million isn't very expensive for the numbers that Frank can put up when healthy. Afterall, we just paid Magg$ $14 million last season.Actually, the cost of keeping Thomas is probably lower than that. He has a $10M player option, and given his age and health, I doubt he'd get a better offer. He'll probably excercise it.

zach074
02-17-2005, 03:15 PM
I sure hope so, I couldn't imagine him in another teams uniform.

RKMeibalane
02-17-2005, 05:29 PM
As long as Frank is healthy and productive, he should be here. If he has a good 2005 season, I think JR will try to work something out with him. If he doesn't, this is probably his final season on the South Side. It would be sad to see him leave town, but if there's one thing I've learned over the past few seasons, it's that baseball is a business. Times change, and that means that players move on.

MRKARNO
02-17-2005, 05:37 PM
I think the WSI community has responded:

YES WE WANT FRANK TO BE HERE FOR HIS WHOLE CAREER

Next question please.

balke
02-17-2005, 05:40 PM
Who is the Trib to make a statement like that anyways? Is that not a story in itself? If there were a quote or mumbling around the Sox brass, that's something the sox fans should know about. He's not a no-name second basemen, he's our All-star DH. This was a random baseless statement that ended an article about spring training, and how hard he works. Also from a cub friendly paper.

I know Kenny alledgedly tried to deal him 2 years ago, and that Ozzie came out against him last season... but who are we w/o a stud hr hitter w/ avg.? I can still see Frank walking off w/ a homerun against the Twins. He's the man I want at the plate in any critical situation, broken leg or not.

SoxEd
02-17-2005, 05:53 PM
Who on this board voted 'No'???

How can anyone say that it's NOT a good idea to keep Frank for his whole career (as long as he's productive)?

I mean, the guy is a Future HOF'er, holds the Franchise's records in I-don't-know-how-many batting categories, and is a one-team career player.
Not to mention that he is a massive fan favourite...

Dumping Frank before the end of his (viable) MLB career would be just plain dumb.

CWSGuy406
02-17-2005, 06:12 PM
In all fairness, at those #s, Frank's by no means a bargain or even a good value at $10-12mil. So if that is indeed Frank's performance, KW may well say "I can make better use of that $$$", and either try to resign Frank at a lower rate more commensurate with his #s or let him go. While I'd be upset to see Frank leave, unless we see a budget bump, I'd be reluctant to pay him that amount of $$$ for those #s.

Worth keeping around? Definitely. But worth it at $10-12mil? Unlikely.

If Frank puts up numbers on pace with last season, or even a little worse, Frank is well worth the ten million. He was on pace for about a .270 AVG, 40 HRs, 105 RBIs, and most importantly -- .003 points shy of a 1.000 OPS. Even in his worst season, 2002 -- he was still a very solid player. Not the Frank we were used to, but he still did well (not ten million well, of course).

Frankfan4life
02-17-2005, 10:15 PM
If Frank isn't productive, where would he go anyway? What team would want him? If Frank can no longer produce he could assume pinch-hitting duties or he just might retire. I can't see the Sox "thanking" Frank for all of his years of success by just kicking him to the curb. I couldn't stand seeing the Big Hurt in another uniform and I couldn't stand another Sox player leaving embittered. That would make me rethink my allegiance to the Sox.

Thunderstruk
02-17-2005, 10:59 PM
I agree wholeheartedly that if Frank is at all productive he should remain with the sox. There were times when I have been sick of him but all and all he is a least nothing like Sosa and is probably the top sox player of all time. This tidbit was mentioned in another thread from Lip regarding Frank in today's Tribune:

"It's expected that no matter what kind of numbers Thomas puts up, the club will buy him out of his contract at the end of the year-ending Thomas' Sox career."

Now the isue here isn't weather this is shady journlism by Foltman. The issue is: Assuming Frank is healthy, should Frank retire as a White Sox?

I've been slowly gaining respect for KW as he has finally gotten some sort of clue about the team. But as it has been widely reported at WSI, it was KW who exercised the diminshing skills clause inthe contract after '02. It was JR who worked out a deal behind KW's back to keep Frank here.

Outside ofgoing deep into the playoffs this year if KW doesn't want to be ripped by me (and probably others) he needs to keep Frank here. If Frank is still a productive, healthy player (which I expect him to be) then there should be no issue of whether or not he should be a White sox for life.

It's time for the fans to speak now and make our voices heard to Sox managment regarding Frank. To do it before it's too late and management makes a foolish decision (which I believe KW has already made) or to change their minds now before they start out planning for life without Frank.


Bob

RedPinStripes
02-17-2005, 11:10 PM
:reinsy

"Business is business. Nobody finishes here".

voodoochile
02-17-2005, 11:21 PM
:reinsy

"Business is business. Nobody finishes here".

The question is SHOULD he finish here, not WOULD he finish here.

gosox41
02-18-2005, 09:05 AM
If Frank isn't productive, where would he go anyway? What team would want him? If Frank can no longer produce he could assume pinch-hitting duties or he just might retire. I can't see the Sox "thanking" Frank for all of his years of success by just kicking him to the curb. I couldn't stand seeing the Big Hurt in another uniform and I couldn't stand another Sox player leaving embittered. That would make me rethink my allegiance to the Sox.


Based on previous history, I don't think KW wants Frank here at all. Part of the reason I'm starting my 'Keep Frank' campaign for 2006 in Feb. of 05.


Bob

TheBull19
02-18-2005, 01:11 PM
The net opportunity cost is only going to be 6.5M if Frank accepts his option. The team owes him 3.5M regardless.

Good point. Keep Frank!

Gosox1917
02-18-2005, 05:01 PM
Other than Harold Baines, who was they last Sox great to actually finish their career in a Sox uniform. While it is important to deal some players when they are past their prime to let younger guys get a chance, let the Hall of Famers stick around. Frank will be in the Hall of Fame, and should go in wearing a Sox cap. I say the organization should let him retire here. He can still hit the snot out of the ball and will retire when he knows he's no longer productive. Again, hopefully it's in a Sox uniform.