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View Full Version : Adkins unlikely to make roster; back to being a starter?


Jabroni
02-17-2005, 03:31 AM
"Sox' pen all but penciled in"
February 16, 2005
http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-sox16.html
Because the final spot on the roster will need to be a right-handed-hitting backup shortstop, the Sox are likely to carry only 11 pitchers into Opening Day. That would mean Adkins is slated to open the season at Class AAA Charlotte despite a decent 2004 season in which he went 2-3 with a 4.65 ERA in 62 innings. Adkins allowed 13 home runs, tied for second-most among AL relievers, but 11 of those were solo shots.

Moving Adkins to the minor leagues to open the season might be a blessing. The right-hander has been a starter for most of his minor-league career, and with the Sox not deep on starters beyond their Opening Day five, Adkins might be stretched out for an eventual move back to the rotation.It appears that the Sox want to keep Cotts in the bullpen because he's a lefty and stretch out Adkins to be a starter again.

California Sox
02-17-2005, 03:38 AM
That's bad news for Adkins, though, because he is never going to stick in the majors as a starter. He'll get passed by B-Mac in a hurry, too.

Jabroni
02-17-2005, 03:40 AM
That's bad news for Adkins, though, because he is never going to stick in the majors as a starter. He'll get passed by B-Mac in a hurry, too.I don't think so. We just don't have any room for him in the bullpen if we carry 11 pitchers...

Buehrle
Garcia
El Duque
Contreras
Garland

Cotts
Hermanson
Politte
Vizcaino
Marte
Shingo

I smell a trade brewing involving Adkins (check out my sig). :wink:

Mohoney
02-17-2005, 04:18 AM
Yeah, a trade involving Adkins seems like a good bet right now. I wonder what Willie and Adkins can bring in a trade?

Maybe Garland, Willie, and Adkins can get us a solid 3rd starter to push El Duque to 4 and Contreras to 5?

Jabroni
02-17-2005, 04:22 AM
Yeah, a trade involving Adkins seems like a good bet right now. I wonder what Willie and Adkins can bring in a trade?Willie & Adkins for Alex Cintron!

Mohoney
02-17-2005, 06:28 AM
Willie & Adkins for Alex Cintron!

So the Diamondbacks are that high on Jerry Gil that they would give up on Cintron so soon?

Royce Clayton is a stopgap at best, so at this point it would probably come down to how they feel about Gil.

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea. He can adequately play 2B, SS, and 3B, and so can Uribe. It really hedges our bets if Crede flops again.

34 Inch Stick
02-17-2005, 06:59 AM
Yeah, a trade involving Adkins seems like a good bet right now. I wonder what Willie and Adkins can bring in a trade?

Maybe Garland, Willie, and Adkins can get us a solid 3rd starter to push El Duque to 4 and Contreras to 5?

Well we know a bust out minor league Adkins was worth Ray Durham. I imagine that a MLB veteran Adkins has to be worth Jeff Kent.

hold2dibber
02-17-2005, 08:55 AM
Yeah, a trade involving Adkins seems like a good bet right now. I wonder what Willie and Adkins can bring in a trade?

Maybe Garland, Willie, and Adkins can get us a solid 3rd starter to push El Duque to 4 and Contreras to 5?

I don't think they'll necessarily trade Adkins. The fact is, there's no way the Sox (or any other team) is going to make it through a major league season using 11 pitchers. So Adkins is the 12th man on an 11 man staff to start the year - they still know they'll need him at some point during the season, so while I'm sure they'd listen to offers, I doubt that trading him is a priority.

Mohoney
02-17-2005, 10:43 AM
I don't think they'll necessarily trade Adkins. The fact is, there's no way the Sox (or any other team) is going to make it through a major league season using 11 pitchers. So Adkins is the 12th man on an 11 man staff to start the year - they still know they'll need him at some point during the season, so while I'm sure they'd listen to offers, I doubt that trading him is a priority.

Guys like Kevin Walker and Francisco Campos can easily take that spot if Adkins is traded. Plus, keeping Adkins around does no good unless the injured pitcher in question is a bullpen guy. If a starter gets injured, Adkins has nothing to offer.

If Adkins doesn't break camp with us, he should be traded to improve the club. He serves no purpose at AAA.

voodoochile
02-17-2005, 10:58 AM
It isn't a bad idea to have at least one guy in the minors who is ready to take over SP duties if someone gets hurt or falters.

Adkins has shown he can be effective on the major league level to some extent. Maybe now that he knows what is needed to be a pitcher at the highest level he can become a competent 5th starter/stopgap.

Mohoney
02-17-2005, 11:05 AM
It isn't a bad idea to have at least one guy in the minors who is ready to take over SP duties if someone gets hurt or falters.

Adkins has shown he can be effective on the major league level to some extent. Maybe now that he knows what is needed to be a pitcher at the highest level he can become a competent 5th starter/stopgap.

I would never, ever, even if I had no other option, give Adkins starts at the Major League level.

I would just as soon throw Felix Diaz out there again than give starts to Adkins.

If I had my way, Campos would be our emergency 6th starter at AAA, and Kevin Walker would be the emergency bullpen addition (unless he beats out Cotts for that situational lefty job in Spring Training).

i've seen enough of Adkins to not worry about him becoming an All-Star after trading him. If it helps the makeup of the Major League club right now, then deal him. Deal Harris, too.

Gremlin3
02-17-2005, 11:16 AM
I would never, ever, even if I had no other option, give Adkins starts at the Major League level.

I would just as soon throw Felix Diaz out there again than give starts to Adkins.

If I had my way, Campos would be our emergency 6th starter at AAA, and Kevin Walker would be the emergency bullpen addition (unless he beats out Cotts for that situational lefty job in Spring Training).

i've seen enough of Adkins to not worry about him becoming an All-Star after trading him. If it helps the makeup of the Major League club right now, then deal him. Deal Harris, too.

I agree completely.

voodoochile
02-17-2005, 11:16 AM
I would never, ever, even if I had no other option, give Adkins starts at the Major League level.

I would just as soon throw Felix Diaz out there again than give starts to Adkins.

If I had my way, Campos would be our emergency 6th starter at AAA, and Kevin Walker would be the emergency bullpen addition (unless he beats out Cotts for that situational lefty job in Spring Training).

i've seen enough of Adkins to not worry about him becoming an All-Star after trading him. If it helps the makeup of the Major League club right now, then deal him. Deal Harris, too.

Why? Adkins has shown more ability to get guys out at the MLB level than Diaz did. He also has worked long relief.

Many pitchers who become starters spend some time as middle relievers early in their career until they prove they can pitch effectively. Buehrle has done it. Garland has done it. Let Adkins work on his stuff and stretch out his arm. Converting back to relief is as simple as making the decision.

If nothing else, it improves his trade value. I have no problem with trading him, but there are questions about both effectiveness and health in the current rotation. Having more options is a good thing.

Ol' No. 2
02-17-2005, 11:24 AM
It isn't a bad idea to have at least one guy in the minors who is ready to take over SP duties if someone gets hurt or falters.

Adkins has shown he can be effective on the major league level to some extent. Maybe now that he knows what is needed to be a pitcher at the highest level he can become a competent 5th starter/stopgap.A lot of this is going to become more clear as ST progresses. How have Diaz/Munoz/etc progressed? There are plenty of candidates for filling in for an injured starter. We just don't know yet which are any good. If one or more of them pan out, Adkins becomes expendable. But you can't afford to part with him until you know you have a viable alternative.

lowesox
02-17-2005, 11:37 AM
I can't believe nobody is second guessing the idea that Cotts should be handed the last bullpen spot over Adkins. IMO, Adkins was FAR better than Cotts last year. Especially when you consider how inconsistent Cotts was.

Besides, now that we've acquired Hermanson and Vizcaino, we have far less need for Marte to be an 8th inning setup guy. Which means he can be used more as a situational lefty. Reducing the need to have a second lefty.

And, I also think Cotts has a far greater chance of being successful as a starter down the road than Adkins does.

Mickster
02-17-2005, 11:40 AM
I can't believe nobody is second guessing the idea that Cotts should be handed the last bullpen spot over Adkins. IMO, Adkins was FAR better than Cotts last year. Especially when you consider how inconsistent Cotts was.

Besides, now that we've acquired Hermanson and Vizcaino, we have far less need for Marte to be an 8th inning setup guy. Which means he can be used more as a situational lefty. Reducing the need to have a second lefty.

And, I also think Cotts has a far greater chance of being successful as a starter down the road than Adkins does.

Took the words out of my mouth. About the only thing Cotts has going for him is that he's a lefty....and so is my grandmother.

santo=dorf
02-17-2005, 11:48 AM
I can't believe nobody is second guessing the idea that Cotts should be handed the last bullpen spot over Adkins. IMO, Adkins was FAR better than Cotts last year. Especially when you consider how inconsistent Cotts was.

Besides, now that we've acquired Hermanson and Vizcaino, we have far less need for Marte to be an 8th inning setup guy. Which means he can be used more as a situational lefty. Reducing the need to have a second lefty.

And, I also think Cotts has a far greater chance of being successful as a starter down the road than Adkins does.

Adkins wasn't far better than him, but IMO he was more consistent than Neal and Ozzie overused both of them after Jackson was released and Politte went down for the season.

Personally I hope Kevin Walker beats out Neal in ST.

MRKARNO
02-17-2005, 12:08 PM
This is probably a good idea. Adkins would have been useless in the bullpen and wouldnt have done a great job anyways. Best thing is to provisionally give Cotts the last spot with Walker and Munoz in the mix if Cotts falters.

maurice
02-17-2005, 02:03 PM
Diaz > Adkins
Adkins = Matt Ginter

IMHO, Adkins is a borderline MLB reliever who never should be allowed to start a game. (Recall the somewhat justified outrage when he was all we got in return for 1/2 a season of Ray Durham + draft picks.) Diaz has been a good MLB reliever in limited action and showed the potential to be a bottom-of-the-rotation MLB starter . . . plus he's three years younger and had better stats at AAA. Here are their MLB numbers:

Adkins - 71.1 IP as a reliever with 4.67 ERA / .299 BAA / 1.54 WHIP
Diaz - 16.2 IP as a reliever with 3.78 ERA / .258 BAA / 1.32 WHIP; 32.2 IP as a starter with 8.27 ERA / .333 BAA / 1.71 WHIP

Diaz had two good starts and five bad ones in extremely inconsistent use. His solid numbers as a reliever are consistent with his minor-league numbers, notwithstanding the small sample size for both splits.

In addition to a more reasonable pattern of work, Adkins had the benefit of never being asked to start a game or even to pitch more than 3.2 innings at a time. He also benefitted from a later MLB debut. I shudder to think what kind of numbers Adkins would post given 7 starts -- let alone 7 starts at age 24.

I have no problem with KW moving Adkins, particularly in a deal for a utility IF. In addition to Diaz, he's got Munoz, Bajenaru, and others to fill that 6th bullpen spot when the need arises.

Jabroni
02-17-2005, 02:17 PM
I can't believe nobody is second guessing the idea that Cotts should be handed the last bullpen spot over Adkins. IMO, Adkins was FAR better than Cotts last year. Especially when you consider how inconsistent Cotts was.

Besides, now that we've acquired Hermanson and Vizcaino, we have far less need for Marte to be an 8th inning setup guy. Which means he can be used more as a situational lefty. Reducing the need to have a second lefty.

And, I also think Cotts has a far greater chance of being successful as a starter down the road than Adkins does.Cotts automatically gets a bullpen spot because he's a lefty. We only have one other lefty in the pen -- Marte.

maurice
02-17-2005, 02:18 PM
Cotts > Adkins

The ERAs are deceiving. Many of the earned runs incurred by Cotts in 2004 were the result of Mike Jackson giving up inherited runners when Ozzie went lefty-right in the middle of an inning. Cotts clearly has WAY better stuff than Adkins. Like Diaz, he was terrible as a very young starter thrown into the fire as a rookie. Also like Diaz, he's three years younger than Adkins and (IMHO) still has potential as a bottom-of-the-rotation starter with some more bullpen seasoning:

63 IP as a reliever with 5.29 ERA / .237 BAA / 1.35 WHIP

The bottom line is that Cotts should be an adequate guy in the back of the Sox pen in 2005, and he has the potential to be a very effective MLB pitcher if he can walk fewer guys.

DaleJRFan
02-17-2005, 05:21 PM
on a somewhat related note, Adkins reported to camp 15 lbs. lighter.

here's the linkie (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20050216&content_id=944726&vkey=spt2005news&fext=.jsp)

PAPChiSox729
02-17-2005, 06:39 PM
The bottom line is that Cotts should be an adequate guy in the back of the Sox pen in 2005, and he has the potential to be a very effective MLB pitcher if he can walk fewer guys.

But that is a very big if. I am a fan of Cotts, but Neal has a long way to go before I would label him effective. Last season, he showed some flashes of brilliance, but also looked like a rookie as well. I believe he can make some big strides this season, but I'm not exactly expecting it.

Mohoney
02-17-2005, 07:04 PM
on a somewhat related note, Adkins reported to camp 15 lbs. lighter.

here's the linkie (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20050216&content_id=944726&vkey=spt2005news&fext=.jsp)

Did he report to camp with a third pitch?

MHOUSE
02-17-2005, 08:34 PM
Aside from having Marte/Politte set up Shingo, I think the bullpen has a lot of question marks. I'd like to keep Adkins in the mix at least for the time being until we can be sure that Vizcaino and Hermanson can handle the middle relief role. Cotts and Munoz both seemed equally effective as 6th-man lefties (Munoz's relief stats were very good) and Diaz has a future as a starter IMO. Adkins seems like the odd man out and borderline contenders might come calling for a little extra help around June or July, but you can never have too much pitching to start out. The thought of Bajenaru pitching during a pennant race scares me.

PAPChiSox729
02-17-2005, 08:59 PM
Aside from having Marte/Politte set up Shingo, I think the bullpen has a lot of question marks. I'd like to keep Adkins in the mix at least for the time being until we can be sure that Vizcaino and Hermanson can handle the middle relief role. Cotts and Munoz both seemed equally effective as 6th-man lefties (Munoz's relief stats were very good) and Diaz has a future as a starter IMO. Adkins seems like the odd man out and borderline contenders might come calling for a little extra help around June or July, but you can never have too much pitching to start out. The thought of Bajenaru pitching during a pennant race scares me.

I'm sure that Hermanson and Vizcaino will handle the middle relief role better then Adkins would. Adkins needs to go back to AAA so he can pitch regularly. Then he would be ready when he is called up or is traded.

Mohoney
02-18-2005, 04:37 AM
Personally I hope Kevin Walker beats out Neal in ST.

If this happened, I might be inclined to go with 12 pitchers, making Cotts' role mostly a long man with some situational 1-batter stints mixed in. Walker would then be the primary situational lefty, and Marte stays a 7th/8th inning guy.

The simple fact that we are debating stuff like "Who's going to be the 6th man in the 'pen?" and "Who's going to be our utility guy that can back up at SS?" really speaks volumes about Kenny's offseason.

lowesox
02-18-2005, 08:56 AM
Cotts automatically gets a bullpen spot because he's a lefty. We only have one other lefty in the pen -- Marte.

Who says you need to have more than one lefty in the pen? I've seen it before where teams will go stretches without any lefthanded relievers at all.