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View Full Version : Mike Greenwell: Real '88 MVP?


RKMeibalane
02-16-2005, 07:09 PM
Mike Greenwell Speaks Out (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1993112)

This is basically the same type of thing that we've been saying about Frank and Giambi. I really think MLB needs to step forward and do the right thing in this situation. Whether steroids were legal isn't really the issue here. The problem with athletes using steroids is that they create an uneven playing field. It's no different than a player corking his bat or looking down at the catcher's signs before a pitch. Cheating is cheating. Whether the substance used is legal isn't really the issue, and I think MLB needs to come to grips with that fact.

fusillirob1983
02-16-2005, 08:11 PM
I think they should maybe acknowledged that Giambi and Canseco didn't earn the MVPs, but I don't think they should give out new awards.

RKMeibalane
02-16-2005, 08:38 PM
I think they should maybe acknowledged that Giambi and Canseco didn't earn the MVPs, but I don't think they should give out new awards.

That's fine with me. I don't have a problem with the MLB stripping the awards and declaring that no player earned the award for the seasons in question.

mantis1212
02-16-2005, 11:01 PM
Mike Greenwell Speaks Out (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1993112)

This is basically the same type of thing that we've been saying about Frank and Giambi. I really think MLB needs to step forward and do the right thing in this situation. Whether steroids were legal isn't really the issue here. The problem with athletes using steroids is that they create an uneven playing field. It's no different than a player corking his bat or looking down at the catcher's signs before a pitch. Cheating is cheating. Whether the substance used is legal isn't really the issue, and I think MLB needs to come to grips with that fact.

What's wrong with looking down at the catcher's signs? Are you saying Joe Nossek was a cheater? Because he stole signs for the Sox all the time. If the opponent can't hide their signs well enough, that's their problem.

NSSoxFan
02-16-2005, 11:09 PM
If people who vote for the hall of fame are really qualified to vote, then they would do their research when it comes time and realize that Frank won 3 MVP awards. Getting ready to go out and win his 4th this season...

popilius
02-16-2005, 11:14 PM
What's wrong with looking down at the catcher's signs? Are you saying Joe Nossek was a cheater? Because he stole signs for the Sox all the time. If the opponent can't hide their signs well enough, that's their problem.

Of course Joe Nossek was not a cheater. However, their is an unwritten rule that a batter can't look at the catcher's signs. Go ahead and do it- but don't you dare complain when you get beaned in the head with the next pitch.

:gulp:

NSSoxFan
02-16-2005, 11:27 PM
Of course Joe Nossek was not a cheater. However, their is an unwritten rule that a batter can't look at the catcher's signs. Go ahead and do it- but don't you dare complain when you get beaned in the head with the next pitch.

:gulp:

Ummm, Joe Nossek wasn't batting at any point when he stole signs. Stealing signs is one of the most important part of baseball which is never talked about, it is a unique skill.

MIgrenade
02-17-2005, 02:38 AM
It takes skill and talent to steal signs since the catcher and pitcher can protect against it, there are no drugs that can make you better at it. It isn't cheating....well I guess it is technically cheating by the "rules," but if you're good at it then do it.

Gil1957
02-17-2005, 01:12 PM
Hi everyone

Heard this on ESPN this morning that Mike Greenwell says, that since Jose Canseco admitted to using steriods to help his performance, MLB should award him the 1988 MVP award since he finished second in the voting.

Maybe the White Sox should jump on this to get Frank his from 2000.

Unregistered
02-17-2005, 01:13 PM
Welcome!

and

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=45482

Gil1957
02-17-2005, 01:21 PM
Sorry about that. You guys post so fast that some topics get buried quickly on the list. LOL

HITMEN OF 77
02-17-2005, 02:24 PM
Ummm, Joe Nossek wasn't batting at any point when he stole signs. Stealing signs is one of the most important part of baseball which is never talked about, it is a unique skill.

And the White Sox are the best team at stealing signs and have been for many, many years.

Fenway
02-17-2005, 02:38 PM
Nice to see old metalhead still alive......

This is the story that started it

http://www.news-press.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050216/SPORTS/502160453/1010

follow-up

http://www.news-press.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050217/SPORTS/502170459/1010

BTW Fort Myers a lot nicer than Jacksonville and it really hit home today just what happened to my beloved BoSox with this greeting from the local paper

http://vh10018.v1.moc.gbahn.net/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Avis=A4&Dato=20050217&Kategori=SPORTS&Lopenr=50217004&Ref=TS&NewTbl=1&MaxW=308&border=0&Q=80

ChiSoxRowand
02-17-2005, 02:42 PM
I can see putting an asterisk by the awards but there is no way they should be taken away. While taking steroids is wrong and getting an unfair advantage, it wasn't against the rules back then. And I do not believe one bit that Frank did steroids, but do we KNOW that? No. What if it came out that Frank was using steroids? Give it to the third place guy?

RKMeibalane
02-17-2005, 02:44 PM
What's wrong with looking down at the catcher's signs? Are you saying Joe Nossek was a cheater? Because he stole signs for the Sox all the time. If the opponent can't hide their signs well enough, that's their problem.

Stealing signs from the bench is not the same thing as stealing them from the batter's box. Henry Rodriguez pulled a stunt like that in 1996, and there were a number of people who weren't happy about it.

Fenway
02-17-2005, 02:44 PM
Old Hammerhead speaks to WEEI

Would-Be 1988 MVP Mike Greenwell Talks to WEEI's D&C (http://rope.weei-am.fimc.net/audio/Greenwell-2-17-05.wma) About the Plethora of Steroids in Baseball in the 1980's.

Ol' No. 2
02-17-2005, 03:10 PM
I can see putting an asterisk by the awards but there is no way they should be taken away. While taking steroids is wrong and getting an unfair advantage, it wasn't against the rules back then. And I do not believe one bit that Frank did steroids, but do we KNOW that? No. What if it came out that Frank was using steroids? Give it to the third place guy?Why not take them away? If you won them dishonestly, you didn't earn them and you don't deserve them. Does Ben Johnson have an asterisk? Anyone who has admitted steroid use or has been shown to have used them should be stripped of any ill-gotten awards.

ChiSoxRowand
02-17-2005, 03:33 PM
Why not take them away? If you won them dishonestly, you didn't earn them and you don't deserve them. Does Ben Johnson have an asterisk? Anyone who has admitted steroid use or has been shown to have used them should be stripped of any ill-gotten awards.

But steroids were illegal in the olympics.

Ol' No. 2
02-17-2005, 03:40 PM
But steroids were illegal in the olympics.And steroid use was acceptable in baseball? They knew what they were doing was wrong. Why else did they hide it and continue to lie about it?

misty60481
02-17-2005, 04:08 PM
Because everybody was making too much money off it

daveeym
02-17-2005, 06:06 PM
I can see putting an asterisk by the awards but there is no way they should be taken away. While taking steroids is wrong and getting an unfair advantage, it wasn't against the rules back then. And I do not believe one bit that Frank did steroids, but do we KNOW that? No. What if it came out that Frank was using steroids? Give it to the third place guy? The guy quoted in the article was a moron and everyone else needs to listen up so hopefully this can be put to rest, but steroids WERE ILLEGAL in baseball. They were covered under the same rules as anything ILLEGAL by US LAW is illegal in baseball, ala cocaine or any other illegal drug. Just cuz they didn't test for it doesn't mean they weren't illegal. BIG difference.

Ol' No. 2
02-17-2005, 07:58 PM
The guy quoted in the article was a moron and everyone else needs to listen up so hopefully this can be put to rest, but steroids WERE ILLEGAL in baseball. They were covered under the same rules as anything ILLEGAL by US LAW is illegal in baseball, ala cocaine or any other illegal drug. Just cuz they didn't test for it doesn't mean they weren't illegal. BIG difference.Legal Schmegal. They aren't illegal if they're prescribed by a doctor. Does that mean if Canseco got a doctor to prescribe them that it would be OK? Why did they all take great pains to hide what they were doing? Because they knew it was against the rules. Some things are so obvious they don't need a written rule. There's no rule against rocket-powered shoes, but if you showed up for a game in a pair you'd get tossed.

The Racehorse
02-17-2005, 08:13 PM
Legal Schmegal. They aren't illegal if they're prescribed by a doctor. Does that mean if Canseco got a doctor to prescribe them that it would be OK? Why did they all take great pains to hide what they were doing? Because they knew it was against the rules. Some things are so obvious they don't need a written rule.

It's obvious that amphetamines are illegal by federal law, but MLB doesn't have them on their [laughable] banned list of substances.

Everyone abuses greenies, so their OK if they're prescribed by a doctor?