PDA

View Full Version : Griffey to save baseball?


StockdaleForVeep
02-16-2005, 03:49 PM
With all the steroid issues and whatnot, everyone is looking with wary eyes on the players, sayin bonds, sosa are juiced, etc, makin people very bitter on the issue of records and purity of the game.

I think we can all agreee that Jr. doesnt do roids, he just had that talent and swing to belt out homers, i wonder should he return to his prime numbers and stay healthy, if he can be a poster boy\bring back glory to baseball, same can be said of with Frank too but the MLB would more likely market Griffey but the point stands, i recall maybe 8-10 years ago when the buzz in baseball was Thomas and Griffey chasing Marris' 61

Anyone else feel tho using Jr. can help retore some of baseballs integrity? Not to mention it would be a hell of a comeback story with all his injuries.

ps-knowin my luck he'll be tested positive for 3 kinds of steroids and a low grade beaver tranquilizer.

Tekijawa
02-16-2005, 03:53 PM
ps-knowin my luck he'll be tested positive for 3 kinds of steroids and a low grade beaver tranquilizer.

I know he takes brain and nerve tonic! Although the Gigantism isn't apparent anymore.

StockdaleForVeep
02-16-2005, 03:56 PM
I know he takes brain and nerve tonic! Although the Gigantism isn't apparent anymore.



:rolling:

did they ever find ozzie smith?

Ol' No. 2
02-16-2005, 04:00 PM
With all the steroid issues and whatnot, everyone is looking with wary eyes on the players, sayin bonds, sosa are juiced, etc, makin people very bitter on the issue of records and purity of the game.

I think we can all agreee that Jr. doesnt do roids, he just had that talent and swing to belt out homers, i wonder should he return to his prime numbers and stay healthy, if he can be a poster boy\bring back glory to baseball, same can be said of with Frank too but the MLB would more likely market Griffey but the point stands, i recall maybe 8-10 years ago when the buzz in baseball was Thomas and Griffey chasing Marris' 61

Anyone else feel tho using Jr. can help retore some of baseballs integrity? Not to mention it would be a hell of a comeback story with all his injuries.

ps-knowin my luck he'll be tested positive for 3 kinds of steroids and a low grade beaver tranquilizer.Griffey would be a great choice. Especially since if the past three seasons are any guide, he'll have plenty of time on his hands.:cool:

MUsoxfan
02-16-2005, 04:00 PM
Griffey is over. He's been over. I love the guy and I love watching him play....but that's the thing....he seems to never play anymore

SOXintheBURGH
02-16-2005, 04:02 PM
:rolling:

did they ever find ozzie smith?

Nope, and Steve Sax is still in jail.

"Hey, wasn't there a guy who got murdered in New York and they never found the killer?"

"But there are hundreds of unsolved murders in New York!"

"You just don't know when to shut up, do you Saxxy Boy."

Jabroni
02-16-2005, 04:06 PM
Unfortunately, Griffey can't stay healthy to save his life.

The Racehorse
02-16-2005, 04:07 PM
I think we can all agreee that Jr. doesnt do roids

I don't agree... he's under the same cloud of suspicion as all other MLB players.

Anyone else feel that using Jr. can help retore some of baseballs integrity? Not to mention it would be a hell of a comeback story with all his injuries.

Junior's good copy with the national media, but I don't care about him being the post boy for restoring baseballs so-called integrity.

Baby Fisk
02-16-2005, 04:24 PM
Griffey's done so well saving the Reds.

RKMeibalane
02-16-2005, 04:26 PM
It would be really ironic if Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey Jr. end up being the only players who didn't cheat. Ten years ago, they were the standard by which all players were judged. Because both have had difficulties with injuries, personal problems, etc. in recent years, the media has written both of them off. I don't think I'd ever be able to stop laughing if it turned out that their supposed declne was the result of other people's dishonesty, rather than anything the media has attributed it to.

The Racehorse
02-16-2005, 04:32 PM
It would be really ironic if Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey Jr. end up being the only players who didn't cheat.

What makes you think Junior never dropped a D-bol?

RKMeibalane
02-16-2005, 04:35 PM
What makes you think Junior never dropped a D-bol?

He has not displayed the same exponential increase in muscle mass and body size that we have seen with Sosa, Bonds, Canseco, Palmeiro, McGwire, etc. He does injure himself frequently, but that doesn't mean steroids were a factor. Griffey's problems seem to be the result of his not wanting to accept that his body can't take the same forms of punishment that it could when he first came into the league. Furthermore, Griffey's home run totals don't appear to be suspicous looking. They did increase from 27 in 1992 to 46 in 1993, but just about everyone's home run totals jumped that year, so I don't see that as being evidence of use.

Baby Fisk
02-16-2005, 04:35 PM
What makes you think Junior never dropped a D-bol?
What makes you think he did?

Gremlin3
02-16-2005, 04:41 PM
His body size has never really changed that much. He doesn't look like it, but that's just my opinion. I think he just had skill.

The Racehorse
02-16-2005, 05:04 PM
He has not displayed the same exponential increase in muscle mass and body size that we have seen with Sosa, Bonds, Canseco, Palmeiro, McGwire, etc. He does injure himself frequently, but that doesn't mean steroids were a factor. Griffey's problems seem to be the result of his not wanting to accept that his body can't take the same forms of punishment that it could when he first came into the league. Furthermore, Griffey's home run totals don't appear to be suspicous looking. They did increase from 27 in 1992 to 46 in 1993, but just about everyone's home run totals jumped that year, so I don't see that as being evidence of use.

What makes you think he did?

Other than his broken wrist back in '95, he's seems to always have an itchy hammy or a severely pulled one... too me, that's suspicious.

As for as Griffey's body type, I had this discussion last week with NSSoxFan & Jabroni [I used to be Nick@Nite - post#'s 26, 30 & 32 (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=45131&page=2)], mlb.com had Junior listed as 6'3", 205lbs, now they list him as 220lbs... sure, sudden weight gain/muscle mass would be the most obvious indicator to steroid usage, but just because someone isn't freaky big doesn't discount that someone isn't using them...

Lastly, Junior career HR totals follow a similar path as Palmeiro's... looks to me he's trying to keep up with the Joneses.

Ol' No. 2
02-16-2005, 05:10 PM
Other than his broken wrist back in '95, he's seems to always have an itchy hammy or a severely pulled one... too me, that's suspicious.

As for as Griffey's body type, I had this discussion last week with NSSoxFan & Jabroni [I used to be Nick@Nite - post#'s 26, 30 & 32 (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=45131&page=2)], mlb.com had Junior listed as 6'3", 205lbs, now they list him as 220lbs... sure, sudden weight gain/muscle mass would be the most obvious indicator to steroid usage, but just because someone isn't freaky big doesn't discount that someone isn't using them...

Lastly, Junior career HR totals follow a similar path as Palmeiro's... looks to me he's trying to keep up with the Joneses.You could say the same thing about just about any player in the league. How many do you think HAVEN'T pulled a hammy? Or gained a little weight as they got older? 15 lb on a 6'3" frame is peanuts.

Pick any player at random and I'm sure you can find at least three reasons to be "suspicious".

The Racehorse
02-16-2005, 05:28 PM
You could say the same thing about just about any player in the league. How many do you think HAVEN'T pulled a hammy?
Which is why I think 'roid use was widespread.

Or gained a little weight as they got older? 15 lb on a 6'3" frame is peanuts.

Hank Aaron's weight stayed well under 200lbs until he retired. I think Junior's 205lb playing days were gone long before before his hammy began itching. :cool:

Ol' No. 2
02-16-2005, 05:34 PM
Which is why I think 'roid use was widespread.



Hank Aaron's weight stayed well under 200lbs until he retired. I think Junior's 205lb playing days were gone long before before his hammy began itching. :cool: Maybe you haven't noticed, but athletes have been pulling hamstrings since Cain raced his brother Abel around the tree. Or should we suspect them, too?

Gremlin3
02-16-2005, 05:35 PM
You could say the same thing about just about any player in the league. How many do you think HAVEN'T pulled a hammy? Or gained a little weight as they got older? 15 lb on a 6'3" frame is peanuts.


Pick any player at random and I'm sure you can find at least three reasons to be "suspicious".

I just don't view the 15 lbs as much either. I know not all cases are going to have the dramatic transformation that Bonds and Sosa had. If you start picking at slight weight gain though almost anyone that has a 10 year career can be considered.

Tekijawa
02-16-2005, 05:37 PM
Maybe you haven't noticed, but athletes have been pulling hamstrings since Cain raced his brother Abel around the tree. Or should we suspect them, too?

Well he did "roid out" and kill him didn't he, maybe this is something that should be looked into?!?!?!? :D:

Gremlin3
02-16-2005, 05:42 PM
Hank Aaron's weight stayed well under 200lbs until he retired.

But he did gain weight. I'm sure you've seen rookie pictures, the pre-gut era for Hank Aaron.

The Racehorse
02-16-2005, 06:00 PM
Maybe you haven't noticed, but athletes have been pulling hamstrings since Cain raced his brother Abel around the tree. Or should we suspect them, too?

I've noticed that a pulled hamstring is something that occurred with more frequency as the 80s turned into the 90s, then to the 00s ...

Remember Brian Downing? He was in MLB 9 seasons, never hitting more than 12 HRs in a season. Then he hit the weights, became a DH, and he puts up a 28-spot in 1982. He continued to put up very good power numbers in the latter part of his career. While I don't remember him pulling his hamstring, I don't think it's a reach to suspect he may have enhanced his performance. Downing wasn't big & freaky, but why did he suddenly find the homerun swing? My opinion is that steroids have been around a long, long time and were more prevalent than most people think.

Ol' No. 2
02-16-2005, 06:15 PM
I've noticed that a pulled hamstring is something that occurred with more frequency as the 80s turned into the 90s, then to the 00s ...

Remember Brian Downing? He was in MLB 9 seasons, never hitting more than 12 HRs in a season. Then he hit the weights, became a DH, and he puts up a 28-spot in 1982. He continued to put up very good power numbers in the latter part of his career. While I don't remember him pulling his hamstring, I don't think it's a reach to suspect he may have enhanced his performance. Downing wasn't big & freaky, but why did he suddenly find the homerun swing? My opinion is that steroids have been around a long, long time and were more prevalent than most people think.You're just proving my point. You can find a reason to suspect everybody. That doesn't mean that everybody was doing it. In fact, even Canseco and Caminiti never said even half the players were. You're painting with a big, broad brush and tarring a lot of clean, hard-working players for no reason other than your own amusement.

jdm2662
02-16-2005, 06:19 PM
I pulled my hamstring twice in six months when I was a 90 pound 13-year-old. I injured it badly when I was a 130 pound 20-year-old. Looking at my size at those ages, I think it's safe to say I wasn't on 'roids. I still have problems with them at times. I'm now 27, and last tipped the scale at 141...

If I were to name two elite players from the 90s who I think never took 'roids, I would say Griffey and Thomas. Some players just have bad luck with injuries, and Griffey is just one of them.
________
Marijuana Strain Green Crack (http://trichomes.org/marijuana-strains/green-crack)

The Racehorse
02-16-2005, 06:29 PM
You're just proving my point. You can find a reason to suspect everybody. That doesn't mean that everybody was doing it. In fact, even Canseco and Caminiti never said even half the players were. You're painting with a big, broad brush and tarring a lot of clean, hard-working players for no reason other than your own amusement.

We all know that the number of players using/used steroids can be debated forever. I just think that the number is on the high side.

I'm not amused that ball players use drugs.

OEO Magglio
02-16-2005, 06:42 PM
I think it's safe to say I wasn't on 'roids.
I'm not sure, I've always suspected you :cool: . There is no way Junior is on roids unfortunately griffey is to injury prone to put up griffeyesque numbers anymore. If you're looking for a roid free guy to hit 50 this year, I'd say arod is your man.

The Racehorse
02-16-2005, 06:42 PM
If I were to name two elite players from the 90s who I think never took 'roids, I would say Griffey and Thomas. Some players just have bad luck with injuries, and Griffey is just one of them.

I hope your right about Frank... as for Junior, luck can be deisgned you know... but then again Junior is everybody's favorite saint.

eastchicagosoxfan
02-16-2005, 07:29 PM
It would be really ironic if Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey Jr. end up being the only players who didn't cheat. Ten years ago, they were the standard by which all players were judged. Because both have had difficulties with injuries, personal problems, etc. in recent years, the media has written both of them off. I don't think I'd ever be able to stop laughing if it turned out that their supposed declne was the result of other people's dishonesty, rather than anything the media has attributed it to.
Couldn't have said it better. I'm hopeful that this season will be the year the clean players strike back.

TheBull19
02-18-2005, 01:43 PM
Considering the circumstances, I don't think it's safe to assume ANYONE in MLB is/was steroid free. Of course, it's probable many if not the majority of players did not use, but that's the sad thing about this situation - since it seems more and more like an institutionalized problem, given that is becoming apparent that managers/owners/"commissioners" turned a blind-eye in the interests of success and profit, there is no way of knowing, and as such, all of baseball is suspect.

Not until the law is laid down in a legitimate manner will major league baseball be legitimate, in my opinion, and as long as those who were complicit in allowing, or creating, this problem are the same who are now responsible for cleaning up MLB, I don't think this will be resolved. I really think its time for Congress to step in and put pressure on MLB to adopt the standard of the Olympics. As long as the consequences are as weak as they are in the new agreement, there's no reason to think MLB has addressed the issue and that the sport is clean.

Look at Bonds and Giambi - they've been caught, yet, what consequence do they face? What's this say to other players in MLB?

jake27
02-18-2005, 03:48 PM
if im not mistaken... Junior was an All-Star last year, but didnt play because he got hurt. when this guy is healthy, hes going to tear the cover off the ball. i read somewhere, they asked griffey what will give him the most problems. he said hitting is fine, he wont have any trouble with it. just making sharp cutsr unning in the outfield and running the bases will be a problem. if he can get over those problems, watch out this year...

OurBitchinMinny
02-18-2005, 03:54 PM
I don't agree... he's under the same cloud of suspicion as all other MLB players.



Junior's good copy with the national media, but I don't care about him being the post boy for restoring baseballs so-called integrity.

If you are gonna question griffey, then you have to question thomas too. But Im almost 100% sure neither of them ever juiced.

eastchicagosoxfan
02-18-2005, 04:01 PM
Considering the circumstances, I don't think it's safe to assume ANYONE in MLB is/was steroid free. Of course, it's probable many if not the majority of players did not use, but that's the sad thing about this situation - since it seems more and more like an institutionalized problem, given that is becoming apparent that managers/owners/"commissioners" turned a blind-eye in the interests of success and profit, there is no way of knowing, and as such, all of baseball is suspect.

Not until the law is laid down in a legitimate manner will major league baseball be legitimate, in my opinion, and as long as those who were complicit in allowing, or creating, this problem are the same who are now responsible for cleaning up MLB, I don't think this will be resolved. I really think its time for Congress to step in and put pressure on MLB to adopt the standard of the Olympics. As long as the consequences are as weak as they are in the new agreement, there's no reason to think MLB has addressed the issue and that the sport is clean.

Look at Bonds and Giambi - they've been caught, yet, what consequence do they face? What's this say to other players in MLB?
Last I heard, no one in MLB upper management was shouting for a blue ribbon committee to investigate steriod use, call winesses, demand testimony and so on, because they all knew what was going on, and intentionally turned a blind eye to it. If asked to say what they knew, most people in MLB would either perjure themselves or lose credibility when questioned whether there was an awareness that steriods were used by several players. It's a no win situation for MLB, and since it's their game, they have no incentive to follow up on the issue.

The Racehorse
02-18-2005, 05:23 PM
If you are gonna question griffey, then you have to question thomas too. But Im almost 100% sure neither of them ever juiced.

I question all players in MLB, to include Frank Thomas. I did say earlier in this thread that I hope I'm wrong about Frank.

It's a no win situation for MLB, and since it's their game, they have no incentive to follow up on the issue.

Actually, MLB has incentive. Just as TheBull19 pointed out, Congress can always step in and legislate action. I for one, don't want that to happen. But if it does happen, I'll be laughing my ass off at Bud Selig & the MLBPA for they're inability to do the right thing [like adhering to Federal Laws! :rolleyes: ]... they'll both be getting what they deserve.

eastchicagosoxfan
02-18-2005, 05:32 PM
I question all players in MLB, to include Frank Thomas. I did say earlier in this thread that I hope I'm wrong about Frank.



Actually, MLB has incentive. Just as TheBull19 pointed out, Congress can always step in and legislate action. I for one, don't want that to happen. But if it does happen, I'll be laughing my ass off at Bud Selig & the MLBPA for they're inability to do the right thing [like adhering to Federal Laws! :rolleyes: ]... they'll both be getting what they deserve.
Unless, or until Congress starts banging the drum about anti-trust laws ( Sherman Act? ) MLB has very little to fear. Congress has to make the first move, until then, MLB will do nothing. I think MLB will get fair warning from Congress to act on their own, before the power is taken away from them.

Ol' No. 2
02-18-2005, 05:37 PM
Unless, or until Congress starts banging the drum about anti-trust laws ( Sherman Act? ) MLB has very little to fear. Congress has to make the first move, until then, MLB will do nothing. I think MLB will get fair warning from Congress to act on their own, before the power is taken away from them.I agree. There is ZERO chance MLB will do anything except go through gallons of whitewash unless they're forced to. And then they'll do the absolute minimum. But I don't think it will necessarily take an act of Congress. If the witch hunt gets bad enough and enough players are implicated, some kind of investigation is the only way they'll stop the bleeding. Unfortunately, it will probably be a panel of sycophants who will just grab a brush and help with the whitewash.

eastchicagosoxfan
02-18-2005, 06:07 PM
I haven't heard of anyone other then Canseco blowing the whistle. Has anyone heard from Brady Anderson ( 50 hr )? An agent? I find it astonishing that no one else has grabbed the public forum. I don't want to sound as if I think there's a conspiracy, but no one has stepped forward, and just said, " I did it ". Earlier this year, I read an article by Mike Downey in which he implicated an unnamed player, but have any writers put any names out there. I'm convinced there are plenty of people in the know; I'm waiting for someone to start naming names.

TheBull19
02-18-2005, 08:24 PM
Last I heard, no one in MLB upper management was shouting for a blue ribbon committee to investigate steriod use, call winesses, demand testimony and so on, because they all knew what was going on, and intentionally turned a blind eye to it. If asked to say what they knew, most people in MLB would either perjure themselves or lose credibility when questioned whether there was an awareness that steriods were used by several players. It's a no win situation for MLB, and since it's their game, they have no incentive to follow up on the issue.

I guess you agree with me then.

eastchicagosoxfan
02-18-2005, 11:13 PM
Considering the circumstances, I don't think it's safe to assume ANYONE in MLB is/was steroid free. Of course, it's probable many if not the majority of players did not use, but that's the sad thing about this situation - since it seems more and more like an institutionalized problem, given that is becoming apparent that managers/owners/"commissioners" turned a blind-eye in the interests of success and profit, there is no way of knowing, and as such, all of baseball is suspect.

Not until the law is laid down in a legitimate manner will major league baseball be legitimate, in my opinion, and as long as those who were complicit in allowing, or creating, this problem are the same who are now responsible for cleaning up MLB, I don't think this will be resolved. I really think its time for Congress to step in and put pressure on MLB to adopt the standard of the Olympics. As long as the consequences are as weak as they are in the new agreement, there's no reason to think MLB has addressed the issue and that the sport is clean.

Look at Bonds and Giambi - they've been caught, yet, what consequence do they face? What's this say to other players in MLB?
Yes, I agree with your statement. Somewhere, in a different thread, I compared the use of steriods to smoking pot. I won't rehash what I said there, but I think MLB has already legitimized steroids, and now has the dubious task of telling its members that it was wrong. And it must do so clandestinely.

Deadguy
02-19-2005, 05:55 AM
I hope your right about Frank... as for Junior, luck can be deisgned you know... but then again Junior is everybody's favorite saint.


Any thoughts about Jeff Bagwell and steroid use?

I don't see his name brought up very much, but he's certainly up there with Griffey and Thomas as one of the greatest players of this generation, and comparing the way he looks now versus the way he looked when he was drafted by the Red Sox in 1989, he doesn't he look like the same guy.

I remember him answering questions about steroids when he arrived to camp in 2004, 15 lbs lighter than he had been at the end of 2003. He basically stated that it was impossible for it not to look suspicious. I know he admitted to using creatine, but that is hardly the same as using steroids.

He went from hitting 15-20 homers each year from 1991 to 1993, to having a .750 slugging percentage in 1994, which was the highest any player had had since 1927, and the second highest in NL history, at the time.

The Racehorse
02-19-2005, 08:04 AM
Any thoughts about Jeff Bagwell and steroid use?

I don't see his name brought up very much, but he's certainly up there with Griffey and Thomas as one of the greatest players of this generation, and comparing the way he looks now versus the way he looked when he was drafted by the Red Sox in 1989, he doesn't he look like the same guy.

I remember him answering questions about steroids when he arrived to camp in 2004, 15 lbs lighter than he had been at the end of 2003. He basically stated that it was impossible for it not to look suspicious. I know he admitted to using creatine, but that is hardly the same as using steroids.

He went from hitting 15-20 homers each year from 1991 to 1993, to having a .750 slugging percentage in 1994, which was the highest any player had had since 1927, and the second highest in NL history, at the time.

Bagwell's numbers spike like most everyone else's numbers... other than that, nothing would suprise me if the full truth was ever revealed.

daveeym
02-19-2005, 11:51 AM
Griffey is over. He's been over. I love the guy and I love watching him play....but that's the thing....he seems to never play anymore Dude just call him Grant Hill Jr. Watch Griffey have an mvp caliber year this year.

Gremlin3
02-21-2005, 11:18 PM
More Griffey Talk

http://sportsline.com/mlb/story/8213478

gobears1987
02-21-2005, 11:30 PM
Nope, and Steve Sax is still in jail.

"Hey, wasn't there a guy who got murdered in New York and they never found the killer?"

"But there are hundreds of unsolved murders in New York!"

"You just don't know when to shut up, do you Saxxy Boy."
And Canseco is still getting the furniture out of the burning house.

We all know about Clemens.
"My starting pitcher thinks he's a chicken!!!"