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View Full Version : Who's the bigger disgrace?


dcb33
02-16-2005, 11:54 AM
For the second straight year, the start of baseball has been overshadowed by one of the great players of its past releasing a book detailing his transgressions: gambling with Rose in 04 and steroids with Canseco in 05. The question begs to be asked- Who is the bigger disgrace to baseball? Pete Rose or Jose Canseco.

HomeFish
02-16-2005, 12:03 PM
What Jose Canseco did actually had a negative impact on the sport. Nobody hit a home run he wouldn't have hit otherwise because of Pete Rose's gambling.

NonetheLoaiza
02-16-2005, 12:07 PM
I only say Jose because he is STILL advocating the use of steroids. What Pete Rose did was bad, and maybe he doesn't regret it at all, but Canseco is more or less telling young kids that they should take steroids if they want to take it up another level. For me, thats a huge disgrace.

MUsoxfan
02-16-2005, 12:07 PM
Pete Rose. He lied for decades about it before admitting it to make a dollar.

The fact that Canseco and many others used 'roids is no great revelation. Canseco has been quite open about this for a couple years now.

PaleHoseGeorge
02-16-2005, 12:17 PM
I only say Jose because he is STILL advocating the use of steroids. What Pete Rose did was bad, and maybe he doesn't regret it at all, but Canseco is more or less telling young kids that they should take steroids if they want to take it up another level. For me, thats a huge disgrace.

Boy, you beat me to it with this post.
:thumbsup:

Pete Rose was (and still is) his own worst enemy. He hurt baseball, but he hurt himself more than anyone else. Jail time, banishment, and no Hall of Fame for one of the greatest ballplayers of all time -- simply because he couldn't control himself.

However Jose Canseco is FAR worse. He went on 60 Minutes and advocated the use of steroids. What a sick and demented world this would be if any of us (forget about MLB) were to agree with him.
:(:

wdelaney72
02-16-2005, 12:21 PM
C. Bud Selig and the rest of MLB Brass

They're now disputing claims by the FBI that they warned MLB about Canseco and steroids 10 years ago.

Of the two listed, I vote for Canseco. Compulsive gambling is a disease. Conseco is just an idiot.

spawn
02-16-2005, 12:26 PM
I voted Pete Rose. He would still be lying about gambling if not for the chance to get into the HOF. Then he releases his book the same time as the HOF induction? With what happened with the Black Sox scandal, Rose should've known better. Rose should be a HOF'er. Jose should also be in the HOF...mopping the floors.

Flight #24
02-16-2005, 12:27 PM
IMO gambling, especially on your own team is much worse then steroids. Gambling brings in the specter of not competing, steroids, while horrible, don't change the basic fact that when they're on the field, players(and managers) are giving their all to try and win.

Thus I'd say Rose.

On a side note, I don't think Jose's spilling the beans is damaging to baseball - it's the fact that he (and others) are on the junk in the first place that's damaging. Having it come out is actually GOOD for the game if it results in some of it getting cleaned up. I would concur with the rest that his continued advocacy of steroids is probably the worst thing he's done.

HebrewHammer
02-16-2005, 12:27 PM
I'm as split on this one as this poll is. I voted Canseco, just because he's fairly unapologetic about his past. Rose at least(although very poorly) apologized. Plus, Rose just had one scandal, how many has Jose had? Like 15? I could see Pete walking into a clubhouse and being welcomed, Jose would likely be tossed out.

Ol' No. 2
02-16-2005, 12:32 PM
Bah. Which smells worse, horse crap or bull crap?

SomebodyToldMe
02-16-2005, 12:43 PM
Sosa

SOXintheBURGH
02-16-2005, 12:43 PM
Bah. Which smells worse, horse crap or bull crap?

Alou's hands.

ja1022
02-16-2005, 01:33 PM
Bah. Which smells worse, horse crap or bull crap?

My sentiments exactly.
Bull ****:
For me, Rose gambling on baseball isn't as bad as the fact he lied about it for all these years even though the evidence was stacked against him. He only changed his tune for financial gain, and so he could throw himself at the feet of the baseball Gods and seek forgiveness. On the field, as a player, the man was a role model.

Horse ****:
Canseco is a clueless mimbo cheater who thinks the world owes him something. If in his small mind, he'd been paid his just due by baseball, his book probably never happens. And is anyone really surprised by the revelations in his book? I think a lot of people started figuring out the ball wasn't the only thing juiced back in '96 when Brady Anderson hit 50. Canseco just got lucky with BALCO and finally found somebody to publish his ode to steroids. He cheated. He admits he cheated. He admits cheating made him better. He's not sorry he cheated. If he had to do it all over again, he admits he'd cheat again. He recommends cheating to others.

Two different piles of ****. Both stink.

JKryl
02-16-2005, 01:42 PM
At least Canseco admits it.

PaleHoseGeorge
02-16-2005, 01:47 PM
At least Canseco admits it.

What are you talking about???
:?:

Canseco is defiant. He isn't ratting out other players for cheating. He's ratting out other players for not admitting they rightly use steroids.

Canseco endorses steroid usage. That's what he told 60 Minutes! The only thing he is "admitting" to is the need for everybody in the sport to use them.

Pete Rose never said everyone should gamble. Sheesh...

Gremlin3
02-16-2005, 01:53 PM
Either way, we knew the truth before they admitted it. I still think canseco is worse.



At least Canseco admits it.

nccwsfan
02-16-2005, 02:08 PM
Players take steroids to have an unfair advantage over their competition. No one takes steroids to become a weaker player. Gambling, on the other hand, can cause players/managers to take measures towards losing a game. Look no further than our own team, 1919 edition.

Steroids is a black eye, but gambling is the cardinal sin of MLB. Rose wins this one going away....

PaleHoseGeorge
02-16-2005, 02:15 PM
....

Steroids is a black eye, but gambling is the cardinal sin of MLB. Rose wins this one going away....

Gee, I thought protecting the health of teenage and college athletes might be just a littttttle bit more important than violating the cardinal sin of gambling. There is no end to the damage that racist jerk Landis has done to baseball. Thanks for demonstrating my point once again.
:o:

Yeah, gambling... boy, that's waaaaayy more important than kids dying from emulating Jose Canseco... he sees nothing wrong with, either.

nccwsfan
02-16-2005, 02:26 PM
Gee, I thought protecting the health of teenage and college athletes might be just a littttttle bit more important than violating the cardinal sin of gambling. There is no end to the damage that racist jerk Landis has done to baseball.
:o:

Yeah, gambling... boy, that's waaaaayy more important than kids dying from emulating Jose Canseco... he sees nothing wrong with, either.

I didn't say that steroid usage is unimportant, good for the game, or good for the health of individuals. I did say that the purpose of steroids (again, right or wrong) is to improve one's performance. No one takes steroids to throw baseball games. Players/managers that gamble on baseball games CAN adversly affect the outcome of a game. It's the rule clearly posted in every team's clubhouse and it's the rule discussed every year at the start of ST.

Canseco and all of the others are wrong, no question about it, but is this a bigger disgrace than gambling on the sport you play? No way...

ja1022
02-16-2005, 02:27 PM
Players take steroids to have an unfair advantage over their competition. No one takes steroids to become a weaker player. Gambling, on the other hand, can cause players/managers to take measures towards losing a game. Look no further than our own team, 1919 edition.

Steroids is a black eye, but gambling is the cardinal sin of MLB. Rose wins this one going away....

Taking steroids and gaining an unfair advantage equals cheating. Taking measures towards losing a game equals cheating. Again, same smelly ****.
Advocating cheating, and the subsequent long term health consequences of steroid abuse....you get the point.

And while the Black Sox may have been guilty of throwing games, to my knowledge there has never been any evidence of Rose betting against his own team.

nccwsfan
02-16-2005, 02:36 PM
Taking steroids and gaining an unfair advantage equals cheating. Taking measures towards losing a game equals cheating. Again, same smelly ****.
Advocating cheating, and the subsequent long term health consequences of steroid abuse....you get the point.

And while the Black Sox may have been guilty of throwing games, to my knowledge there has never been any evidence of Rose betting against his own team.

Steroids= cheating. So does corking bats, greasing baseballs, using nail files, pine tar, etc etc. Again, the purpose is to get an unfair advantage over your opponent- primary difference being that steroids is harming the health of the user.

PaleHoseGeorge
02-16-2005, 02:38 PM
....

And while the Black Sox may have been guilty of throwing games, to my knowledge there has never been any evidence of Rose betting against his own team.

Not to hear Tom Dowd tell it. However his "evidence" was never put to trial.

Every Captain Ahab needs a Moby Dick.
:cool:

OurBitchinMinny
02-16-2005, 02:41 PM
Sammy Sosa

spawn
02-16-2005, 02:45 PM
I've been reading these posts, and have come to this realization: both acts are disgraceful. But something needs to be clarified: Who is the bigger disgrace to what? Baseball or humanity? If we're talking baseball, I'd have to go with Rose. If we're talking humanity, then it's Canseco, hands down.

PaleHoseGeorge
02-16-2005, 02:52 PM
I've been reading these posts, and have come to this realization: both acts are disgraceful. But something needs to be clarified: Who is the bigger disgrace to what? Baseball or humanity? If we're talking baseball, I'd have to go with Rose. If we're talking humanity, then it's Canseco, hands down.

Canseco is the bigger disgrace to humanity? I can live with that description. In fact I would put the racist jerk Landis in the same category with Canseco: a disgrace to humanity.

Works for me.
:cool:

spawn
02-16-2005, 02:58 PM
Canseco is the bigger disgrace to humanity? I can live with that description. In fact I would put the racist jerk Landis in the same category with Canseco: a disgrace to humanity.

Works for me.
:cool:
Don't even get me started on Landis...just seeing his name or his picture makes my blood boil.:angry:

RKMeibalane
02-16-2005, 03:31 PM
They're both scum in my book. Neither player has shown any remorse for his actions, and neither player belongs in the HOF. It's because of people like Rose and Canseco that the general public has formed such a negative opinion of Major League Baseball in recent years. When the casual observer looks at baseball, he sees these idiots and decides that his time would be better spent doing something other than following the game.

To make matters worse, Canseco doesn't seem to think that steroid use is wrong. He's more concerned with protecting his own image than he is with getting the word out about the dangers of using steroids. I might be willing to let him off the hook if he were trying to make up for his mistakes, but he's not interested in doing that. I might also be willing to give Rose another chance if he actually behaved as though he were sorry for what he did, but it's going to be a cold day in hell before we ever see that side of his personality.

Church Turtle
02-16-2005, 04:02 PM
I didn't read Rose's book and I have no intention to read Canseco's. When Rose's came out it seemed that he didn't name other players/managers in the sport, whereas all I've heard of Jose's book is his allegations about other players. Despite his apparent lack of loyalty to past tream mates, my vote wasn't related to that. I voted Canseco only because roid use for teens should be something we want to prevent. (And others have posted the same sentiment I noticed).

FarWestChicago
02-16-2005, 09:36 PM
This poll is seriously flawed. There can be only one:

:nandrolone

Parrothead
02-16-2005, 11:34 PM
Easy...Canesco. What Rose did was gamble when he was a manager and supposedly he bet on his own team. Rose gambling had nothing to do with him being a player. As a player he was great.

Canesco cheated to stay a player. By his own admissions he said the roids made him better.

FightingBillini
02-17-2005, 01:18 AM
Steroids are illegal for a reason. They are bad news. Now, some of what Canseco said was actually true. Steroids can make people healthier, stronger, and arent dangerous when used right. Doctors prescribe steroids all the time. I believe that certain steroids are even used to treat asthma. However, body builders and athletes dont use steroids for the right reasons, they abuse them. They take way too many, and they take them unsupervised. Anyone who has been prescribed steroids will have to see the doctor regularly, and will have tests done to make sure that they arent messing up their blood or their vital organs. Steroids prescribed for a legitimate medical use are not harmful, but that is in NO WAY what Canseco did. He abused steroids to gain an unfair advantage. They were illeagal for his intended use. The manner in which he took them was dangerous. He is still healthy, but Giambi is already getting suspicious health problems. A tumor? Intestinal parasites? And now we find out that he was regularly injecting steroids into his stomach and arse? He danced with the devil and he got burned. I just hope for that cheating moron's sake it doesnt eventually cost him his life.
Canseco knows that steroids will never be legalized. Esentially, he is telling millions of high school and college kids to take illegal drugs by misleading them about the side effects. That is deplorable, despicable, and entirely unethical. Furthermore, Canseco didn't tell this story so he could bring attention to the issue, he did it to make money. Even if his book does have some truth in it, it is mostly sensationalist crap. He mentioned pretty much every big name he could think of, because their names would be leaked to the press to hype the book. Also, he mentioned that George W. Bush "had to have known". In an interview with the former Rangers GM, he said that he himself didn't know about steroids use, and he wasn't mentioned in the book. He also said that there were other owners who were much closer the team than Bush that weren't mentioned. Canseco mentioned every big name he knew to sell the book. Its all about money with him, he didnt do anything noble.

While Rose is a slimeball, he was one of the greatest players of all time. He gambled, but he never cheated, and he didn't advocate gambling. He also didn't tell teens it good to do something illegal and detrimental to their health.