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NSSoxFan
02-15-2005, 11:54 PM
Will Thomas be recovered enough to go through drills next week?

"We won't gauge where he is until he shows up," Williams said. "A lot can happen in two weeks, and it has been two weeks since his last [rehabilitation] report."

That report put Thomas "on schedule for mid-March," Williams said. "During his rehab, he has not pushed himself for spring-training activities. But I think the most important person to listen to [about his health] is Frank."



http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-050215sox,1,4968370.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

ND_Sox_Fan
02-16-2005, 12:16 AM
Well Hot Damn! I am getting more excited by the minute about this season!!!:supernana:

soltrain21
02-16-2005, 12:28 AM
That would be the most stellar thing in the world.

Jabroni
02-16-2005, 12:28 AM
Uhhh... I need some new boxers. :)

The best thing about this article is that Frank's rehab report is indicating that he may be ready by mid-March. It's not just Kenny or Ozzie speculating on when Frank will be able to return.

:supernana:

OzzieBall2004
02-16-2005, 12:32 AM
Opening Day Lineup

1-Podsednik CF
2-Iguchi 2b
3-Rowand RF
4-Thomas DH
5- Konerko 1b
6-Dye LF
7-Pierzynski C
8-Uribe SS
9-Crede 3b

Bats off the bench: Everett, Gload, Perez...Dare I say Borchard?
Pinch runner: Harris

I think Thomas coming back changes the lineup significantly...I really like the 1-2-3 that way, although it probably won't shape up that way. I just like all that speed plus Rowand has major pop in his bat in the 3 whole and Iguchi could potential be a HR threat high in the order (I predict late 90's Lofton-like production from him). You tinker that 4,5,6 anyway you like.

I still think this team is going to have a lot of games where they score 8+ runs, just those runs will be manufactured, not 10 runs on 5 or 6 homers.

I fully admit to drinking the Kool-aid on this, but my motto this season is, "White Sox Baseball: Dangerous until proven otherwise"

Jabroni
02-16-2005, 12:34 AM
If Frank is ready for opening day our lineup is sick but I think it would look more like this, OzzieBall2004...

LF Podsednik
2B Iguchi
DH Frank
1B Konerko
RF Dye
CF Rowand
C_ Pierzynski
SS Uribe
3B Crede

Your team's best hitter always bats 3rd and in our case that is Frank. If Podsednik struggles and Iguchi lights it up, we could see Everett play LF and Iguchi leadoff and either Rowand or Uribe would bat 2nd.

OzzieBall2004
02-16-2005, 12:42 AM
If Frank is ready for opening day our lineup is sick but I think it would look more like this, OzzieBall2004...

LF Podsednik
2B Iguchi
DH Frank
1B Konerko
RF Dye
CF Rowand
C_ Pierzynski
SS Uribe
3B Crede

Your team's best hitter always bats 3rd and in our case that is Frank. If Podsednik struggles and Iguchi lights it up, we could see Everett play LF and Iguchi leadoff and either Rowand or Uribe would bat 2nd.

I figured most people would toggle it like that, as I said though....I would just really like to have all that good speed up top, and then a murderers row...Lets be honest too, how many teams batting champ bats 6?

Jabroni
02-16-2005, 12:46 AM
I figured most people would toggle it like that, as I said though....I would just really like to have all that good speed up top, and then a murderers row...Lets be honest too, how many teams batting champ bats 6?True, but he would only improve the lower half of our lineup that much more. Aaron showed last season that he's comfortable hitting anywhere in the lineup. I just think that you have to have your career .308 AVG, career .429 OBP hitter batting 3rd, regardless of his speed.

OzzieBall2004
02-16-2005, 12:58 AM
True, but he would only improve the lower half of our lineup that much more. Aaron showed last season that he's comfortable hitting anywhere in the lineup. I just think that you have to have your career .308 AVG, career .429 OBP hitter batting 3rd, regardless of his speed.

Point taken....and hell, im cool with it either way

Jabroni
02-16-2005, 01:03 AM
Point taken....and hell, im cool with it either wayYeah, if Frank is healthy our team is just that much stronger. If Podsednik struggles like he did last season and Iguchi is a booming success, we could elect to go with this lineup...

2B Iguchi
CF Rowand
DH Frank
1B Konerko
LF Everett
RF Dye
C_ Pierzynski
SS Uribe
3B Crede

Kenny is right -- a healthy, in-shape Everett really is a huge asset to our team.

chisox06
02-16-2005, 01:19 AM
Kenny is right -- a healthy, in-shape Everett really is a huge asset to our team.

For sure, Everett gives this team some desperately needed depth, because we all know that injuries/slumps are going to happen, with Everett as a force off the bench it makes the lineup dare I say "tinkerable?"

NSSoxFan
02-16-2005, 01:27 AM
For sure, Everett gives this team some desperately needed depth, because we all know that injuries/slumps are going to happen, with Everett as a force off the bench it makes the lineup dare I say "tinkerable?"

:jerry
"What does tinkering mean?"

Jabroni
02-16-2005, 01:28 AM
For sure, Everett gives this team some desperately needed depth, because we all know that injuries/slumps are going to happen, with Everett as a force off the bench it makes the lineup dare I say "tinkerable?":jerry "Remove that teal!"

mdep524
02-16-2005, 01:45 AM
"During his rehab, he has not pushed himself for spring-training activities..."

:jerry
You are running that @#$^%& shuttle drill, you understand me, big man?? I don't care if your leg gets amputated, you are running that shuttle drill!

FightingBillini
02-16-2005, 01:47 AM
Your team's best hitter always bats 3rd and in our case that is Frank. If Podsednik struggles and Iguchi lights it up, we could see Everett play LF and Iguchi leadoff and either Rowand or Uribe would bat 2nd.

Not always true. Last year Maggs was batting ahead of Frank. On the mid 90s Indians, the 3 spot belonged to CARLOS BAERGA. He was followed by Belle, Murray, Alomar, and Ramirez. Belle was a great hitter, but he batter 4th. I know Frank always batter 3rd until last year, but I think we should try Rowand in the 3 spot. He should hit for average and power. I dont know the stats, but the 3 hitter will probably get only a few more plate appearances per year.

Jabroni
02-16-2005, 01:56 AM
Not always true. Last year Maggs was batting ahead of Frank. On the mid 90s Indians, the 3 spot belonged to CARLOS BAERGA. He was followed by Belle, Murray, Alomar, and Ramirez. Belle was a great hitter, but he batter 4th. I know Frank always batter 3rd until last year, but I think we should try Rowand in the 3 spot. He should hit for average and power. I dont know the stats, but the 3 hitter will probably get only a few more plate appearances per year.Yeah, but Magg$ is a career .307 AVG, .364 OBP hitter. The Sox could afford to bat him 3rd and Frank cleanup. I don't want to piss anyone off but the main reason Frank agreed to make the switch with Magg$ is because he's a team player and hadn't hit over .300 since 2000. I love Rowand but I would like to see him for one more year batting in a spot with less pressure than 3rd.

DumpJerry
02-16-2005, 07:30 AM
If Big Hurt is able to start on OD and plays the season without injury, he will be the MVP. The ****heads who jacked up on 'roids in the past will not be doing their hobby this year and will not be able to compete with a true and pure hitter. Frank not only can jack it out, but can draw the walk, he is the most dangerous batter in MLB.

RedHeadPaleHoser
02-16-2005, 07:43 AM
If Big Hurt is able to start on OD and plays the season without injury, he will be the MVP. The ****heads who jacked up on 'roids in the past will not be doing their hobby this year and will not be able to compete with a true and pure hitter. Frank not only can jack it out, but can draw the walk, he is the most dangerous batter in MLB.

I am dying to see if ESPN retracts their online story they had a few weeks ago about Bonds being the most potent hitter - let's see how Barry will do without the clear. If Frank can do what he does, and keep his comments to himself, he can be MVP, not only in the AL - in this town, taking back what should always have been rightfully his.

Jjav829
02-16-2005, 08:18 AM
If Big Hurt is able to start on OD and plays the season without injury, he will be the MVP. The ****heads who jacked up on 'roids in the past will not be doing their hobby this year and will not be able to compete with a true and pure hitter. Frank not only can jack it out, but can draw the walk, he is the most dangerous batter in MLB.

I know we're going to see some of the juicers having down years, but let's not go overboard. There are still some damn good hitters in this game, even if you exclude Barry. A healthy Albert Pujols is probably the best hitter in the game. Manny Ramirez would have something to say in this. Ichiro, Helton, Berkman, etc. I can go on, but you get the point. There are plenty of very good, clean hitters.

Ol' No. 2
02-16-2005, 09:07 AM
I hate to rain on everyone's parade, but this is nothing new. They've been saying he'll miss the first half of ST since at least January. But he's NOT going to be ready for opening day. On the contrary, if he can't even start working out until mid-March, How is he going to get ready in 2 weeks? May is still more likely.

ja1022
02-16-2005, 09:33 AM
Just get healthy big guy. More important than when he comes back is that he comes back as healthy as he's going to get. Given his size and age, and the stress he puts on that ankle, I'd rather see them err on the side of caution, even if it meant he's not back before June or whenever.

1917
02-16-2005, 09:37 AM
I hate to rain on everyone's parade, but this is nothing new. They've been saying he'll miss the first half of ST since at least January. But he's NOT going to be ready for opening day. On the contrary, if he can't even start working out until mid-March, How is he going to get ready in 2 weeks? May is still more likely.

I agree. End of April at the earliest I would say. But I am more then confident in Carl ability to take over at DH until he is ready. Franks been in a boot and he needs to hit the track and treadmill to get his weight down and cardio up. I never bought the June remark made by Ozzie.....I think he was just trying to get the sports writers something to talk about and put the Sox more in the weeds. But if he is ready to start training by Mid March, there is no way he is in the lineup April 4th. Need more then 2 weeks

Kadafi311
02-16-2005, 10:59 AM
My Dad ran into Frank at the Palms last weekend... said he looked great. Of course I declined a trip to Vegas for the first time in my life and my Dad runs into the Big Hurt, go figure, bleh.

Anyway, hopefully that means he's feeling better, but I believe he lives in Vegas? So he could of just been out for a good meal.

BRDSR
02-16-2005, 11:44 AM
My Dad ran into Frank at the Palms last weekend... said he looked great. Of course I declined a trip to Vegas for the first time in my life and my Dad runs into the Big Hurt, go figure, bleh.

Anyway, hopefully that means he's feeling better, but I believe he lives in Vegas? So he could of just been out for a good meal.

My dad, ChiSoxTony, ran into the Big Hurt yesterday and apparently he's just been told by KW that he's going to be traded to Arizona for a utility infielder and cash. Then on his way back to Chicago he ran into KW in the airport who confirmed the whole thing! Talk about a reliable source!

Ha, just kidding. Thats great news. I would die to see Thomas on the field on Opening Day. I'm not getting my hopes up too far, but I think theres a glimmer of hope. It would definitely be great.

PAPChiSox729
02-16-2005, 06:44 PM
That would be great if Frank was back in time for the latter part of ST. Then he would use less of the season to find his stroke. I figured that if he came back in May, it may take him until June for him to find his swing and become the dominant hitter he can be. But to have Frank hitting well by mid-April would be huge.

South Side
02-16-2005, 06:53 PM
My Dad ran into Frank at the Palms last weekend... said he looked great. Of course I declined a trip to Vegas for the first time in my life and my Dad runs into the Big Hurt, go figure, bleh.

Anyway, hopefully that means he's feeling better, but I believe he lives in Vegas? So he could of just been out for a good meal.

It seems everyone I know who goes to Vegas somehow ends up running into him. It's a bit strange.

Deadguy
02-16-2005, 07:22 PM
It seems everyone I know who goes to Vegas somehow ends up running into him. It's a bit strange.

I was in Vegas in late December, and I didn't see him. :(:

chisoxmike
02-16-2005, 09:11 PM
Hold up now, I talked to a guy on the medical staff yesterday and he told me that Frank won't be back until June.

He also said that El Duque was the biggest surprise saying he was in the best shape he's seen a pitcher in. That to me is great news!

NSSoxFan
02-16-2005, 09:57 PM
Corey McPherrin just reported on Fox that Big Frank is coming along faster than anyone expected, and if all goes well will be in the line-up opening day. And he will be in camp on Monday, YES!

:bandance: :gulp: :bandance:

The Racehorse
02-16-2005, 10:10 PM
Corey McPherrin just reported on Fox that Big Frank is coming along faster than anyone expected, and if all goes well will be in the line-up opening day. And he will be in camp on Monday, YES!

:bandance: :gulp: :bandance:

Hubba hubba! :cool:

Jabroni
02-16-2005, 10:37 PM
Corey McPherrin just reported on Fox that Big Frank is coming along faster than anyone expected, and if all goes well will be in the line-up opening day. And he will be in camp on Monday, YES!

:bandance: :gulp: :bandance:Yep, I heard it as well. :thumbsup:

Lip Man 1
02-16-2005, 10:50 PM
Note of caution....

From Bob Foltman's story tonight in the Tribune:

"This will be a big season for Thomas, who could be playing for a contract.

It's expected that no matter what kind of numbers Thomas puts up, the club will buy him out of his contract at the end of the year—ending Thomas' Sox career."

Lip

Ol' No. 2
02-16-2005, 10:54 PM
Note of caution....

From Bob Foltman's story tonight in the Tribune:

"This will be a big season for Thomas, who could be playing for a contract.

It's expected that no matter what kind of numbers Thomas puts up, the club will buy him out of his contract at the end of the year—ending Thomas' Sox career."

LipIt's "expected"? What that means is that Foltman pulled the entire story right out of his ass. It makes NO SENSE for Reinsdorf to have made that decision already.

NSSoxFan
02-16-2005, 10:55 PM
It's "expected"? What that means is that Foltman pulled the entire story right out of his ass. It makes NO SENSE for Reinsdorf to have made that decision already.

It does in fact make no sense.

MRKARNO
02-16-2005, 10:59 PM
I wouldnt bank on what Foltman says to be the truth. His editorial comments in the past have been pretty anti-organization. He's done a good job on the beat, but he seems to come from the Lip school of Reinsdorf bashing. Didn't he predict the payroll to be at about 65 million and it ended up being the current 75 million? I'll believe it when I see it.

The Racehorse
02-16-2005, 11:03 PM
It makes NO SENSE for Reinsdorf to have made that decision already.

Especially sense Hawk didn't blab that tidbit when he was on the radio recently. :D:

Btw, WU! did a helluva job on MRKARNO's sig! :cool:

Lip Man 1
02-17-2005, 12:12 AM
Gang:

I'm not saying Foltman's story is reliable or pertinent but in fact Kenny Williams has been trying for years to get rid of Thomas hasn't he???

The decision may not be entirely Uncle Jerry's. Williams may have a say couldn't he? The question is how much.

I wouldn't place to much on Reinsdorf's 'love' of Frank. After all it was Uncle Jerry who put in the goofy 'diminished skills clause' right?

I would hate to see Frank hit #500 in an Indians uniform or a Mariners or a Red Sox but with this organization anything is possible. Just ask Carlton Fisk.

I'm just saying I wouldn't be surprised that this is the last go round for Hurt.

Lip

NSSoxFan
02-17-2005, 12:15 AM
Gang:

I'm not saying Foltman's story is reliable or pertinent but in fact Kenny Williams has been trying for years to get rid of Thomas hasn't he???

The decision may not be entirely Uncle Jerry's. Williams may have a say couldn't he? The question is how much.

I wouldn't place to much on Reinsdorf's 'love' of Frank. After all it was Uncle Jerry who put in the goofy 'diminished skills clause' right?

I would hate to see Frank hit #500 in an Indians uniform or a Mariners or a Red Sox but with this organization anything is possible. Just ask Carlton Fisk.

I'm just saying I wouldn't be surprised that this is the last go round for Hurt.

Lip

Lip, I see where you are coming from. I know I am investing in the hope that the Sox have become smarter since 1993 with the Fisk situation. I do think that Frank Thomas carries a lot more weight in the Sox organization than Fisk did, even though that might not be to large of a gap.

Jabroni
02-17-2005, 12:23 AM
Lip, I see where you are coming from. I know I am investing in the hope that the Sox have become smarter since 1993 with the Fisk situation. I do think that Frank Thomas carries a lot more weight in the Sox organization than Fisk did, even though that might not be to large of a gap.I also don't see why the Sox wouldn't exercise Frank's $12 million team option for 2006. They would have to pay Frank $3.5 million just to get rid of him. If Frank is healthy, I don't see why we wouldn't pay him $12 million when we just paid Magg$ $14 million last season. $12 million is cheap for what Frank can do when healthy.

I guess if Everett has a huge year we could exercise his $5 million team option for 2006 and use him as our DH but we would still have to pay Frank his $3.5 million buyout just to get rid of him. That means replacing Frank with Everett as our DH would essentually cost us $8.5 million. We may as well just keep Frank for $12 million and pay Everett his $500,000 buyout.

In other words...

Frank as our DH in 2006 will cost $12,500,000.
Everett as our DH in 2006 will cost $8,500,000.

In my opinion, Frank for $4 million more is the better value. Plus, we would get to see him go for 500.

FightingBillini
02-17-2005, 12:24 AM
Guys, chastise me for this if you must, but I almost wouldn't mind if Frank missed the beginning of the season. I just want him to be healthy, and not rush back. I also would like Everett to get a lot of at bats early in the year so he could get off to a great start. I think he is going to have a great year. We are going to need Carl to provide 15-20 HR off the bench this year, and if he stays healthy he is a huge weapon to have in the playoffs. If Carl doesn't get many at bats early on, I fear he wont have as good a season.

Deadguy
02-17-2005, 07:04 AM
Gang:

I'm not saying Foltman's story is reliable or pertinent but in fact Kenny Williams has been trying for years to get rid of Thomas hasn't he???

I tend to agree with Foltman's statement that this will be Thomas' last season on the SS, but the comment in it of itself smacks of shady journalism. Is that his opinion, or does he have some inside dirt from the higher ups? Of course you don't have to read between the lines to know about the stormy relationship between KW and FT, and that will ultimately run Thomas off to B-more or Anaheim. There's just too much smoke to believe that there isn't fire.



The decision may not be entirely Uncle Jerry's. Williams may have a say couldn't he? The question is how much.

I agree. KW is also JR's boy. It's just a bizarre situation where the GM and a player are at ends, yet are both supposedly close to the owner.

I wouldn't place to much on Reinsdorf's 'love' of Frank. After all it was Uncle Jerry who put in the goofy 'diminished skills clause' right?

That was 8 years ago though. When it was signed, Thomas probably never could conceive the idea that he'd ever had a season where he couldn't be an All-Star, finish in the top 10 in the MVP voting, or winning a silver slugger award. I mean, when he signed the contract, it seemed like it would be a given that he could at least achieve one of those, and guarantee the 9,967,000 each year for the remainder of his contract.


I'm just saying I wouldn't be surprised that this is the last go round for Hurt.


I'd be surprised to see him in a White Sox uniform in 2006. It really depends on what his production is though. I find it hard to believe they'd pass on Thomas if he won the MVP, or led them deep into the playoffs, even at his age. I have a hard time believing in fairy tale endings, though. Thomas' career looks like one where he will either hang on with a franchise like the Orioles for a couple more years to reach some milestones, or just move on to another contender at a lower salary.

Ol' No. 2
02-17-2005, 08:55 AM
I tend to agree with Foltman's statement that this will be Thomas' last season on the SS, but the comment in it of itself smacks of shady journalism. Is that his opinion, or does he have some inside dirt from the higher ups? Of course you don't have to read between the lines to know about the stormy relationship between KW and FT, and that will ultimately run Thomas off to B-more or Anaheim. There's just too much smoke to believe that there isn't fire.




I agree. KW is also JR's boy. It's just a bizarre situation where the GM and a player are at ends, yet are both supposedly close to the owner.



That was 8 years ago though. When it was signed, Thomas probably never could conceive the idea that he'd ever had a season where he couldn't be an All-Star, finish in the top 10 in the MVP voting, or winning a silver slugger award. I mean, when he signed the contract, it seemed like it would be a given that he could at least achieve one of those, and guarantee the 9,967,000 each year for the remainder of his contract.



I'd be surprised to see him in a White Sox uniform in 2006. It really depends on what his production is though. I find it hard to believe they'd pass on Thomas if he won the MVP, or led them deep into the playoffs, even at his age. I have a hard time believing in fairy tale endings, though. Thomas' career looks like one where he will either hang on with a franchise like the Orioles for a couple more years to reach some milestones, or just move on to another contender at a lower salary.All this will depend on Frank's productivity this season. My beef with Foltman was that there was no way the decision had already been made, so it was obvious he was just pulling the story out of his ass.

If FT has a decent year and is within reach of 500 HR, I think I'd be surprised if he didn't return to the Sox in 2006. He's got a $10M option and I don't see anyone else offering more, so I would assume he'd exercise it. As Jabroni pointed out, with the $3.5M buyout and the cost of a replacement, replacing him doesn't save much money. With what Thomas has meant to the franchise, it would be great marketing to have him chasing his 500th in 2006. He'll be 38 at the end of the 2006 season, so assuming he makes it to 500, that probably would be his last season, so it's not like they're committing for another 5 yrs.

AZChiSoxFan
02-17-2005, 09:22 AM
I love Rowand but I would like to see him for one more year batting in a spot with less pressure than 3rd.


Great point! :)

Lip Man 1
02-17-2005, 12:20 PM
For what it's worth Phil Rogers is his column looking at the Sox also points out the fact that the Sox can buy out Hurt's deal for 3.5 million. He does not make any comments about whether this will happen or not though.

Lip

maurice
02-17-2005, 02:29 PM
I'm going to go the other way and predict that Frank will end his career in a Sox uniform irrespective of his 2005 production. Frank's age and recent health history should prevent other teams from offering him big money long term. As in the past, I expect that JR will be able to work something out. JR's loyalty to Frank should trump KW's desire to dump him, clear salary room, and sign pitchers or younger, faster players.

Ol' No. 2
02-17-2005, 02:33 PM
I'm going to go the other way and predict that Frank will end his career in a Sox uniform. Irrespective of his 2005 production, Frank's age and recent health history should prevent other teams from offering him big money long term. As in the past, I expect that JR will be able to work something out. JR's loyalty to Frank will trump KW's desire to dump him, clear salary room, and sign pitchers or younger, faster players.I figure if Frank manages to stay healthy enough to hit his 500th in 2006, he'll hang 'em up after that. His body just isn't going to take much more. The marketing bonus of having Frank hitting his 500th and having 2006 be the farewell tour is enough of a financial incentive to pay him what it takes (within reason) to keep him around that one more year.

BigDon77
02-17-2005, 02:41 PM
I figure if Frank manages to stay healthy enough to hit his 500th in 2006, he'll hang 'em up after that. His body just isn't going to take much more. The marketing bonus of having Frank hitting his 500th and having 2006 be the farewell tour is enough of a financial incentive to pay him what it takes (within reason) to keep him around that one more year.



I agree, this organazation surely has wisened up since the Carlton Fisk deabcle. If he can stay healty they should keep him. Last time I looked the Sox don't have that many guys in the Hall, and if Frank returns for a final year they would market the hell out of it and hope it turned into an attendaence boost.