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View Full Version : Canseco: Hey, does this crap make you want to buy my book?


HomeFish
02-14-2005, 09:25 PM
http://www.suntimes.com/output/roeper/cst-nws-roep14.html

No, not steroids; Frank is just apparently scared of driving fast.


"I've never in my whole life seen a big guy look so scared. . . . He [Thomas] was just white, stone-cold white -- which is kind of unusual for a black man."

maurice
02-14-2005, 09:33 PM
I find it significant that Canseco apparently hasn't named any Sox players as steroid users in his book. It seems like he named players from every other team he's played for, except maybe the D'Rays.

HomeFish
02-14-2005, 09:35 PM
I find it significant that Canseco apparently hasn't named any Sox players as steroid users in his book. It seems like he named players from every other team he's played for, except maybe the D'Rays.

He names 3 Devil Rays, I believe.

PAPChiSox729
02-14-2005, 09:38 PM
http://www.suntimes.com/output/roeper/cst-nws-roep14.html

No, not steroids; Frank is just apparently scared of driving fast.

The title is a bit misleading in light of the current events, don't you think?
:tongue:

NSSoxFan
02-14-2005, 10:01 PM
I would be scared too if a roided out freak was driving that speed.

Jabroni
02-14-2005, 10:08 PM
According to Canseco, Baker was a legendary party animal before he became a father-figure manager; Giambi was a Hall of Fame womanizer; Thomas was scared senseless by a high-speed highway adventure; Grace was a proponent of sleeping with unattractive women to break hitting slumps, and McGwire regularly called reporters "******s.":o:

CubsfansareDRUNK
02-14-2005, 10:22 PM
i just heard that on 780 AM. didnt they say "wouldnt anybody be scared driving that fast?"

NonetheLoaiza
02-14-2005, 11:00 PM
Wilson Alvarez? Now I've heard everything...

Jabroni
02-14-2005, 11:11 PM
Wilson Alvarez? Now I've heard everything...Supposedly Alvarez always had weight problems and wanted to lose some so he "consulted" Canseco about it.

MRKARNO
02-14-2005, 11:23 PM
In my opinion the burden of proof is on Canseco and therefore I am going to assume that all of his allegations are false until proven otherwise, or in the case of Giambi if proof surfaces by other means. As far as I'm concerned he's just trying to sell a book by creating as much controversy as he possibly can. This would be more consistant with his character than as a "whistleblower looking to save baseball from the evils of steroids."

MUsoxfan
02-15-2005, 12:01 AM
In my opinion the burden of proof is on Canseco and therefore I am going to assume that all of his allegations are false until proven otherwise, or in the case of Giambi if proof surfaces by other means. As far as I'm concerned he's just trying to sell a book by creating as much controversy as he possibly can. This would be more consistant with his character than as a "whistleblower looking to save baseball from the evils of steroids."

I'm gonna go on the polar opposite end of that argument. I have no reason to doubt him and believe pretty much everything he says. People named in his book are guilty until proven innocent in my mind.

NSSoxFan
02-15-2005, 12:04 AM
I'm gonna go on the polar opposite end of that argument. I have no reason to doubt him and believe pretty much everything he says. People named in his book are guilty until proven innocent in my mind.

I agree. It is painfully obvious that this book was made for Canseco to make money, no question. The content in the book is all true, IMO. The one motive that no one really talks about as to why he wrote the book is the fact that although he took steroids for most of his career, he wasn't able to reach the stats that guys like Bonds and McGwire did. This made Canseco really jealous and it was another motivating factor for him, to highlight there use of steroids as a way to downplay anything they ever accomplished.

StillMissOzzie
02-15-2005, 12:55 AM
Under the circumstances, unless and until McGwire, Bonds, et al start filing slander and libel suits against Canseco, I'm gonna believe his side of the story. The weak denials from the accused seem half-hearted, as it seems that they just want the story to go away and fighting the charges will just keep them in the public eye longer.

SMO
:gulp:

FightingBillini
02-15-2005, 01:13 AM
Under the circumstances, unless and until McGwire, Bonds, et al start filing slander and libel suits against Canseco, I'm gonna believe his side of the story. The weak denials from the accused seem half-hearted, as it seems that they just want the story to go away and fighting the charges will just keep them in the public eye longer.

SMO
:gulp:

First of all, a libel case under these circumstances is unwinnable. The player would have to prove that:

A) Canseco was flat out lying. That couldn't be proved by the player's testimony or testimony of others saying "I never saw him take steroids." Since there are no tests that can tell if a player EVER used steroids, it is legally impossible to prove they were never used.

B) Libel also implies malice. It must be proved that Canseco lied about the players with the intent to hurt them and/or diminish their reputation.

Most importantly, if anyone did sue him, it would be the next "trial of the century". It would draw much much more attention to the situation than already has been. It's not worth it.

BRDSR
02-15-2005, 01:32 AM
I find it significant that Canseco apparently hasn't named any Sox players as steroid users in his book. It seems like he named players from every other team he's played for, except maybe the D'Rays.

Except himself. I assume he was on the stuff while he was in a White Sox uniform for...two years was it? One and a half? He was a disappointment.

Jabroni
02-15-2005, 01:36 AM
Except himself. I assume he was on the stuff while he was in a White Sox uniform for...two years was it? One and a half? He was a disappointment.Actually, Canseco was a pretty good DH for us when Frank got injured for the season in 2001...

Canseco coming to Chicago: Sox sign free agent slugger (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news_story.jsp?article_id=cws_20010620_jose_ne ws&team_id=cws)
Sox give Canseco a chance: Veteran slugger will DH (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news_story.jsp?article_id=cws_20010620_canseco reax_news&team_id=cws)

Jose Canseco (2001 stats) (http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/cansejo01.shtml)
256 AB
.258 AVG
.366 OBP
.477 SLG
16 HR
49 RBI
45 BB
75 SO

Kenny signed him for next to nothing and he put up good numbers, of course he was probably on roids.

SomebodyToldMe
02-15-2005, 01:55 AM
He was a disappointment.

Disappointment my behind. After the SOX got him, my brother and I got tickets to see him. He was a favorite player of ours and we didn't care if he was juiced up.

I guess we're bad people.

Jabroni
02-15-2005, 01:58 AM
Check this picture out...

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/cws/photo/ph_news_cansecoj_288B_06_20.jpg

Guess who that is rubbing Canseco's shoulders? :tongue:

white sox bill
02-15-2005, 07:37 AM
What did Jose spend his $$ on, or should I say blow his $$ on, that would make him write a "kiss 'n tell" book like this? I assume he made tens of millions. Like they say, its not what you make, its what you got leftover.

MUsoxfan
02-15-2005, 09:38 AM
Except himself. I assume he was on the stuff while he was in a White Sox uniform for...two years was it? One and a half? He was a disappointment.

1/2 Year at $100,000 IIRC. It's hard to be disappointing at that time and cost.

Ol' No. 2
02-15-2005, 10:40 AM
First of all, a libel case under these circumstances is unwinnable. The player would have to prove that:

A) Canseco was flat out lying. That couldn't be proved by the player's testimony or testimony of others saying "I never saw him take steroids." Since there are no tests that can tell if a player EVER used steroids, it is legally impossible to prove they were never used.

B) Libel also implies malice. It must be proved that Canseco lied about the players with the intent to hurt them and/or diminish their reputation.

Most importantly, if anyone did sue him, it would be the next "trial of the century". It would draw much much more attention to the situation than already has been. It's not worth it.Is there a lawyer in the house? I know that libel suits against public figures have a higher standard of proof. Ordinarily, malice is not required, but it is for public figures. My question is, do ballplayers count as public figures?

MUsoxfan
02-15-2005, 12:02 PM
Just bought the book.....so this crap made me want to buy it.

maurice
02-15-2005, 01:59 PM
It's true that libel claims are tougher to prove in the US than in some other countries. For example, it would be very hard to base a libel claim on a comment along the lines of: "Somebody told me that Sosa was on the juice." That's why newspapers, etc. always frame criminal allegations in the form of "police said . . . " or "prosecutors reported that . . . ." However, it looks like Canseco went way beyond that and said stuff like: "I saw McGuire inject Giambi," or "I personally injected McGuire." If untrue, this sort of allegation would provide a stronger basis for a libel claim, IMHO. Granted, the whole thing would devolve into a "he-said / he-said" swearing contest, but very many successful lawsuits match that description. I'm sure his publisher took all of this into consideration.

FightingBillini
02-15-2005, 03:33 PM
Is there a lawyer in the house? I know that libel suits against public figures have a higher standard of proof. Ordinarily, malice is not required, but it is for public figures. My question is, do ballplayers count as public figures?

Well, Im just a senior in college, but I will be a lawyer all too soon. Yes, its my understanding that baseball players would be classified as public figures.

DrCrawdad
02-15-2005, 03:43 PM
Another perspective on Juiced...


A review of "Juiced." (http://home.mindspring.com/~dcrosby101/Kingkaufman.pdf)

"Juiced" is a compelling, quick, fun read...

...You've heard and read about the charges Canseco makes, about Mark McGwire, Giambi, Juan Gonzalez, Rafael Palmeiro and Ivan Rodriguez. And about President Bush, who was a part owner of the Texas Rangers when Canseco played for them. He also speculates about Miguel Tejada, Sammy Sosa, Roger Clemens and a few others, and laments that if only poor Ben Grieve had let Canseco guide him down the steroid pathway, he'd have become a decent player.

But don't jump to conclusions. Don't think you've read "Juiced" just because you've listened to the chatterers talking about it on the radio or cable TV, or read the coverage of the excerpts leaked to the New York Daily News. Even as the book was overplaying, in my opinion, the extent to which the media has conspired to make Canseco look bad, it was happening again...

...But the things Canseco writes about McGwire and Giambi and the others pass the sniff test, don't they? Are you going to believe the various denials that have been pouring out of fax machines lately or are you going to believe Canseco and your lying eyes?