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View Full Version : Ordonez signing a colossal mistake...


Jabroni
02-13-2005, 03:01 PM
"Ordonez signing a colossal mistake"
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/3389078

NSSoxFan
02-13-2005, 03:14 PM
Just read the article and I could not agree more.

ChiWhiteSox1337
02-13-2005, 03:19 PM
This article does bring up a lot of great points. Magglio getting more money that Vladimir Guerrero is absolutely absurd, and the Tigers don't exactly have a good track record with their previous signings ala Juan Gonzalez. Oh well, can't really blame the Tigers for trying to get out of the mode of mediocrity, but giving out contracts like this might not help a few years down the road. Ivan Rodriguez was great last season, but he still has 3 years left on his contract.

SOXintheBURGH
02-13-2005, 03:32 PM
"The question now isn't whether this is the worst free agent contract of the winter; the question is whether this is the worst free-agent contract of all-time."

Ouch!

Fenway
02-13-2005, 03:42 PM
Detroit writer is concerned

http://www.freep.com/sports/tigers/rosey8e_20050208.htm


Magglio Ordonez is a Tiger, and amid the confetti and cheers, you can hear people worry that he will be injured.



Understandable.



But me, I would worry if he's healthy.



Look, anybody with soup for brains can see the potential benefits of signing Ordonez. He's an outstanding hitter, one of the best in baseball. The Tigers now have an outside chance to win their division this year. And if Ordonez's knee is still a mess, they lose only $12 million, and at this point in the winter, there is nowhere else to spend it.



We will talk all spring and perhaps through the summer about what Ordonez can do. For a city that has endured so much bad baseball, that's wonderful. But let's take a moment and acknowledge that this could turn into an absolute disaster.

Sorry. It has to be said.

SOXSINCE'70
02-13-2005, 04:23 PM
Have fun hitting in a park where fly balls go to die.

You're dead to me, "Gagglio".Good riddance.Hope you fall
flat on your ass and fail.I'll be there to laugh in your face
when it happens.:angry: :angry:

Fenway
02-13-2005, 04:28 PM
Have fun hitting in a park where fly balls go to die.



You may find this hard to believe but Tim Wakefield gave up SIX in one game at Detroit in 2004 :o:

and he was the winning pitcher :smile:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=240808106


recap
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=240808106

StillMissOzzie
02-13-2005, 04:41 PM
You may find this hard to believe but Tim Wakefield gave up SIX in one game at Detroit in 2004 :o:

and he was the winning pitcher :smile:


I also see that he gave up 7 runs with those 6 HR's, so at least 5 of them were solo shots. Gale force winds blowing out that day?

Back to Maggs and his mega-deal, who determines whether a player goes on the DL - the medical staff, the GM on the medical staff's say-so, or other?

SMO
:gulp:

SoxSpeed22
02-13-2005, 04:53 PM
This article does bring up a lot of great points. Magglio getting more money that Vladimir Guerrero is absolutely absurd, and the Tigers don't exactly have a good track record with their previous signings ala Juan Gonzalez. Oh well, can't really blame the Tigers for trying to get out of the mode of mediocrity, but giving out contracts like this might not help a few years down the road. Ivan Rodriguez was great last season, but he still has 3 years left on his contract.Typical Bora$ contract. He does his homework, but that's why everyone calls him Bora$. I said before that this would slow down their rebuilding if he's not healthy, but if he is, he will help this team a lot. Ivan Rodriguez was the second best free agent signing last year behind Vlad Guerrero and look at what he did, turned them from the league joke to a slightly below average team. Its obvious why KW would not negotiate with Bora$ clients this winter, he did not want huge contracts to stop him from building a well rounded team.
I don't know which one will cause Baseball's downfall, Alex Rodriguez's contract, or this winter and the crapload of ridiculous contracts.:?:

HomeFish
02-13-2005, 05:45 PM
You may find this hard to believe but Tim Wakefield gave up SIX in one game at Detroit in 2004 :o:

and he was the winning pitcher :smile:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=240808106


recap
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=240808106

I think Wakefield was starting for my fantasy team that day.

MIgrenade
02-13-2005, 08:14 PM
I don't know if this has been brought up, but he can't miss more than 25 games he's going to want to get in as many games as possible even if injured as mentioned in the article. Does anyone see the potential for a fight between Mags and the organization over playing time? If that team sucks next year and Mags even MIGHT be injured, there could be a fight to bench him to void the contract.

pearso66
02-13-2005, 08:41 PM
I don't know if this has been brought up, but he can't miss more than 25 games he's going to want to get in as many games as possible even if injured as mentioned in the article. Does anyone see the potential for a fight between Mags and the organization over playing time? If that team sucks next year and Mags even MIGHT be injured, there could be a fight to bench him to void the contract.

well he can only be on the DL for 25 games for the same injury he got last year, but if it is due to something else, he is welcome to the huge contract. At least that is how I understood it

samram
02-13-2005, 09:10 PM
well he can only be on the DL for 25 games for the same injury he got last year, but if it is due to something else, he is welcome to the huge contract. At least that is how I understood it

Yeah, that's right. The problem is what happens if the knee starts acting up and he misses five or six games, the Tigers say they think he should go on the DL, but he says, "No, I'll be good to go tomorrow," etc., but before they know it, it's been 10 days and they've been playing with 24 guys? I'm not sure what the rule is, but I would think the team can just put him on the DL if they feel he needs to be there. However, if they put him on the DL for enough time to void the deal, Maggs and Boras would probably complain they did it only to void the deal, but I don't know what the procedure would be to challenge.

batmanZoSo
02-13-2005, 09:13 PM
Yep, it is no wonder why ballplayers seek Scott Boras' counsel.

Ho-lee-### Detroit. Good luck.

ChiWhiteSox1337
02-13-2005, 09:18 PM
If the Tigers attempt to put Maggs on the DL, you can be assured there will be a HUGE fight between Bora$ and the Tigers management. The guy is possessed to get every cent that he possibly can....

OurBitchinMinny
02-13-2005, 10:21 PM
"The question now isn't whether this is the worst free agent contract of the winter; the question is whether this is the worst free-agent contract of all-time."

Ouch!


Umm Albert Belle? Chan Ho Park? Sammy Sosa? Kevin Brown? Just to name a few. It could turn out to be a great signing

Ol' No. 2
02-13-2005, 10:23 PM
Yeah, that's right. The problem is what happens if the knee starts acting up and he misses five or six games, the Tigers say they think he should go on the DL, but he says, "No, I'll be good to go tomorrow," etc., but before they know it, it's been 10 days and they've been playing with 24 guys? I'm not sure what the rule is, but I would think the team can just put him on the DL if they feel he needs to be there. However, if they put him on the DL for enough time to void the deal, Maggs and Boras would probably complain they did it only to void the deal, but I don't know what the procedure would be to challenge.One would have to assume there is some kind of language in the contract pertaining to this, but without knowing the details, it's impossible to say much about it. I have to assume that the team would not cede to anyone its authority to put a player on the DL. If there's a disagreement, Ordonez could file a grievance with the union, and it would then go to an arbitrator.

One thing you can bank on is that Ordonez will hold his knee together with duct tape if necessary to avoid going on the DL.

samram
02-13-2005, 11:07 PM
One would have to assume there is some kind of language in the contract pertaining to this, but without knowing the details, it's impossible to say much about it. I have to assume that the team would not cede to anyone its authority to put a player on the DL. If there's a disagreement, Ordonez could file a grievance with the union, and it would then go to an arbitrator.

One thing you can bank on is that Ordonez will hold his knee together with duct tape if necessary to avoid going on the DL.

Yeah, I agree they wouldn't cede their authority. The only problem with arbitration is what is the standard or what does he/she look for in coming to a decision? If he asks Maggs how much pain he's in or was in, he would just say 'not much, I feel fine', or 'I would have been fine with one more day off' and the Tigers would say 'How long are we supposed to play a man short?' In salary arbitration, the arbitrator can look at the numbers, see what the range of salaries is for players with those numbers, and pick a winner. This would be very subjective because it will be completely about how much pain he feels- the condition is going to be there, it's not going away. Frankly, if he is hurt, I would hope the Tigers lose the arbitration and are stuck with him for at least five years, taking them out of contention.

SOXintheBURGH
02-14-2005, 01:44 AM
Umm Albert Belle? Chan Ho Park? Sammy Sosa? Kevin Brown? Just to name a few. It could turn out to be a great signing

Umm I was quoting from the article. Relax.

Edit: I'm delirous and have no idea whats happening.

Banix12
02-14-2005, 03:05 AM
My whole feeling on the subject is that even if he returns to the level of play that he has played at before he is not worth that kind of money. As a player he's not a player who draws a ton of people to the ballpark and he is not easy to market. He has consistantly hit 30 HRs a season but he did it playing home games at a very hitter friendly park. He's simply not the type of player who can carry an offense on his shoulders, which is what a player who makes that kind of money has to do.

For years there have been people in the national media waiting for Maggs to have that monster season where he'd break out and be a serious MVP candidate even if the team didn't do well, and he really hasn't done that. He's had some great seasons but I think we in Chicago saw the best that Magglio is going to offer a team in 2002 with the 38 HRs and the .320 avg.

For the pay raise that the Tigers are giving him there will be an expectation of him doing better than he has done in the past or at least a consistant level emulating his career year in 2002 and frankly that isn't likely to happen over the course of the contract.

MRKARNO
02-14-2005, 07:30 AM
The article is right on and I agree with every point that Dayn Perry makes. It's a great article overall and really expresses my viewpoint on the contract: it's awful. The last line is great as well. This just might be the worst baseball contract of all time if a few things that are likely to go wrong, do.

Mohoney
02-14-2005, 07:42 AM
"The question now isn't whether this is the worst free agent contract of the winter; the question is whether this is the worst free-agent contract of all-time."

Ouch!

How quick we forget Todd Hundley.

Flight #24
02-14-2005, 09:40 AM
One thing you can bank on is that Ordonez will hold his knee together with duct tape if necessary to avoid going on the DL.

SCENE: Tiger's Medical staff offices

Maggs: Doc, my shoulder's killing me, I don't think I can go for a while

Doc: Really? But Maggs, I just saw you playing catch with your Maggliano, Maggliana, and that cute puppy you bought: Magglibowwow.

Maggs: Yeah, I think that's how I hurt it.

Doc: OK Maggs, come over here and let me look at it......whoah - is your leg OK? That's one heck of a limp you've got there.

Maggs: I don't know what you're talking about, doc. It's me shoulder that hurts.

Doc: Hmm....shoulder looks fine, let me take a look at that knee though

Maggs: Get away from me you quack! The knee is fine, it's my shoulder I tell you!!!

Doc: OK Maggs, whatever you say. But I can't prescribe a DL visit when I can't find anything wrong with your shoulder. I am worried about the knee though.

Maggs: The knee is fine!! Hey - can I borrow that wheelchair over there? I'm kind of tired......

JRIG
02-14-2005, 09:45 AM
How quick we forget Todd Hundley.

I don't think Hundley is even close to the worst.

1. Darren Dreifort



also...

Mike Hampton
Denny Neagle
Chan Ho Park

santo=dorf
02-14-2005, 12:14 PM
Does everyone here think Detroit will void the contract if he does spend too much time on the DL? I think Detroit is actually stupid and desperate enough to keep a big name around even if he's injured.

Ol' No. 2
02-14-2005, 12:17 PM
Does everyone here think Detroit will void the contract if he does spend too much time on the DL? I think Detroit is actually stupid and desperate enough to keep a big name around even if he's injured.That will depend on whether they think he'll be able to contribute in 2006 and beyond. They're not going to be saddled with a $75M albatross for someone who isn't going to play.

DumpJerry
02-14-2005, 04:48 PM
On the list of "worst FA signings" may I add two words:

:jaime

Fenway
02-14-2005, 04:54 PM
I also see that he gave up 7 runs with those 6 HR's, so at least 5 of them were solo shots. Gale force winds blowing out that day?
SMO
:gulp:

No the amazing part was the wind was clocked at 1 MPH

mjharrison72
02-15-2005, 02:56 PM
Back to Maggs and his mega-deal, who determines whether a player goes on the DL - the medical staff, the GM on the medical staff's say-so, or other?

Wasn't Charles Comiskey the king of limiting playing time to avoid paying players bonuses or otherwise promised money? Or did it used to be fairly common?
I can definitely see some legal wrangling in the future if Maggs' knee starts causing trouble for him. Insofar as I don't wish him any harm and would like tosee him have a long and healthy career, I hope he doesn't keep mum if he's hurting and do some career-ending damage to the knee.

StillMissOzzie
02-15-2005, 04:33 PM
No the amazing part was the wind was clocked at 1 MPH

Amazing - the knuckler is supposed to be at it's best on a still day.

SMO
:dunno: