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Mickster
02-10-2005, 10:23 PM
In the Feb. 18 edition of the Sporting News he ranks the MLB teams as such:

OFFSEASON IMPROVEMENTS

MAJOR UPGRADES
Yankees
Giants
Mets
Diamondbacks
Mariners

UPGRADES
Red Sox
Angels
Marlins
Brewers
Nationals

MINOR UPGRADES
Cardinals
Braves
Padres
Twins
Reds

NEED FURTHER INSPECTION
Indians
White Sox
A's
Phillies
Tigers
Orioles

DOWNGRADES
Dodgers
Astros
Cubs
Rangers

PERPETUALLY REBUILDING
Blue Jays
Pirates
Devil Rays
Royals
Rockies

I officially declare Rosenthal as just another clueless reporter.

MRKARNO
02-10-2005, 10:28 PM
I think it could be successfully argued that the White Sox havent improved all that much, I just dissagree with it. He's just taking the precautionary road because a lot of the players the White Sox signed are question marks in terms of ability (Iguchi, Pierzynski) or health (El Duque, Dye).

Soxzilla
02-10-2005, 10:29 PM
How the hell did the Twins upgrade!?!

They dropped two infielders, one whom was pretty darn good, for a couple of unproven schmucks. One being Castro, who has a glove, but can't hit.

Otherwise they haven't added ****.

OEO Magglio
02-10-2005, 10:30 PM
I think it could be successfully argued that the White Sox havent improved all that much, I just dissagree with it. He's just taking the precautionary road because a lot of the players the White Sox signed are question marks in terms of ability (Iguchi, Pierzynski) or health (El Duque, Dye).
How is AJ a question mark in terms of ability?

JB98
02-10-2005, 10:30 PM
In the Feb. 18 edition of the Sporting News he ranks the MLB teams as such:

OFFSEASON IMPROVEMENTS

MAJOR UPGRADES
Yankees
Giants
Mets
Diamondbacks
Mariners

UPGRADES
Red Sox
Angels
Marlins
Brewers
Nationals

MINOR UPGRADES
Cardinals
Braves
Padres
Twins
Reds

NEED FURTHER INSPECTION
Indians
White Sox
A's
Phillies
Tigers
Orioles

DOWNGRADES
Dodgers
Astros
Cubs
Rangers

PERPETUALLY REBUILDING
Blue Jays
Pirates
Devil Rays
Royals
Rockies

I officially declare Rosenthal as just another clueless reporter.

Why? I disagree with some of this. Namely, there's no way the Diamondbacks and Mariners made "major upgrades." Neither will contend, but it isn't like his opinions are all off-base.

I think we've gotten to a point where everyone on this board wants the media to throw warm fuzzies at the the White Sox for all the moves they made this offseason. When you put down the Kool-Aid, I think an objective analyst would probably say we still look like an 85-win, second-place team. The jury is out on us. We're definitely a different team. I don't know if we're any better.

MRKARNO
02-10-2005, 10:31 PM
How is AJ a question mark in terms of ability?

Down year in SF. Nothing major in the grand scheme of things though.

Mickster
02-10-2005, 10:32 PM
How is AJ a question mark in terms of ability?

Or Dye in terms of health? And I don't want to hear the often injured b.s. that gets flung around here at times.

MRKARNO
02-10-2005, 10:36 PM
Or Dye in terms of health? And I don't want to hear the often injured b.s. that gets flung around here at times.

He hasnt played a full year since 2001, when he was awesome. There were some major questions about his health affecting his game last year. The questions will persist until he plays a full season with health.

Chisox003
02-10-2005, 10:37 PM
I read that too...I gagged
Rosenthal is a jackass....I cant stand him

Its not that I disagree with where he puts the Sox (I do disagree), because it can be argued by a non Sox fan that they didnt improve (which they CLEARLY did, but oh well)....I disagree with a lot of his other improving teams: D-Backs? Giants? TWINS? No need to even go into it...Its so clear to me that these teams didnt improve it's almost blinding...Hes the expert though

I know we are all verrrrry used to this kind of B.S., but its gettin out of hand now...53 days until the season starts...CMOOOONNN APRIL!

JB98
02-10-2005, 10:37 PM
How is AJ a question mark in terms of ability?

He's not. Rosenthal's article states that AJ seems determined to prove that his clubhouse problems are exaggerated, but that signing a guy like this is a risk for a team trying to improve chemistry. That's definitely true, although I personally think AJ will be a good signing for us.

Rosenthal also mentions the loss of power could hurt the team because USCF plays small. That's reasonable. We're banking on Rowand, Uribe and Crede to provide us with at least as many HRs as they gave us last year. Will they? Who knows?

I'd also throw Podsednik in as a huge question mark. It's not a slam dunk that we're suddenly a great team. I agree that we "need further inspection." That's why I'm eager to see how the season goes. The end result may be the same as previous years, but at least the script will likely be a little different with this year's group.

Mickster
02-10-2005, 10:37 PM
Why? I disagree with some of this. Namely, there's no way the Diamondbacks and Mariners made "major upgrades." Neither will contend, but it isn't like his opinions are all off-base.

I think we've gotten to a point where everyone on this board wants the media to throw warm fuzzies at the the White Sox for all the moves they made this offseason. When you put down the Kool-Aid, I think an objective analyst would probably say we still look like an 85-win, second-place team. The jury is out on us. We're definitely a different team. I don't know if we're any better.

Can you honestly say that our SP staff isn't greatly improved from last year? Or our bullpen? How about comparing AJ to Davis/Burke/Alomar? How about an unknown Iguchi v. Harris (who's still on the team)? Dye v. 65 games of Maggs/Timo/Borchard (combined .239 AVE, iirc)?

We have made improvements in virtually all positions. I am not stating that we are a 100 win team, but to state that we don't belong in the "minor upgrades" category at the minimum is just plain silly.

Mickster
02-10-2005, 10:38 PM
He's not. Rosenthal's article states that AJ seems determined to prove that his clubhouse problems are exaggerated, but that signing a guy like this is a risk for a team trying to improve chemistry. That's definitely true, although I personally think AJ will be a good signing for us.

Rosenthal also mentions the loss of power could hurt the team because USCF plays small. That's reasonable. We're banking on Rowand, Uribe and Crede to provide us with at least as many HRs as they gave us last year. Will they? Who knows?

I'd also throw Podsednik in as a huge question mark. It's not a slam dunk that we're suddenly a great team. I agree that we "need further inspection." That's why I'm eager to see how the season goes. The end result may be the same as previous years, but at least the script will likely be a little different with this year's group.

Re-read your quotes. Rosenthal does not say this, Scott Merkin does.

OEO Magglio
02-10-2005, 10:43 PM
Karno, his down year was .272, 11 and 77. Not to shabby for his worst year. He's coming from an extreme pitchers park to an extreme hitters park. IMO, aj might have been the best addition this offseason in terms of a bargain.

MRKARNO
02-10-2005, 10:44 PM
Karno, his down year was .272, 11 and 77. Not to shabby for his worst year. He's coming from an extreme pitchers park to an extreme hitters park. IMO, aj might have been the best addition this offseason in terms of a bargain.

Unfortunately he cannot take a walk, so that means he's really dependent upon BA to get on base. Therefore, he must hit like he did in 2003 to be considered really really good.

Chisox003
02-10-2005, 10:46 PM
Unfortunately he cannot take a walk, so that means he's really dependent upon BA to get on base. Therefore, he must hit like he did in 2003 to be considered really really good.

Karno....Our catching combo was Davis/Burke before AJ...His worst year is better than both those guys best years combined...Its a monster upgrade, whether he can take a walk or not....

Mickster
02-10-2005, 10:46 PM
Unfortunately he cannot take a walk, so that means he's really dependent upon BA to get on base. Therefore, he must hit like he did in 2003 to be considered really really good.

Considering he's a career .294 hitter, I'm not too concerned about that. Feel better with Davis catching 130 games in '05?

JB98
02-10-2005, 10:46 PM
Can you honestly say that our SP staff isn't greatly improved from last year? Or our bullpen? How about comparing AJ to Davis/Burke/Alomar? How about an unknown Iguchi v. Harris (who's still on the team)? Dye v. 65 games of Maggs/Timo/Borchard (combined .239 AVE, iirc)?

We have made improvements in virtually all positions. I am not stating that we are a 100 win team, but to state that we don't belong in the "minor upgrades" category at the minimum is just plain silly.

Our bullpen is deeper. That's the best part of this offseason. And AJ is far superior to anything we had behind the plate last year. On those points, I agree.

As for our starting pitching, I do feel better about it, but do you honestly think El Duque can give us 200 innings? If he gets hurt, we're right back where we were last year with a black hole in the #5 spot.

Second base is a great unknown for us. We can only speculate about Iguchi, although I'm glad we're not counting on Harris.

Yes, Dye is better than Timo and Borchard. But his addition is a wash because we traded CLee. I'm not convinced Podsednik is the answer. The guy had a good rookie year with the Brewers, but other than that, he's been mediocre his whole pro career.

In order to win the division, we MUST have a healthy Frank. And Uribe and Rowand must give us the same production they gave us last year. And Crede must step up. We still have plenty of "What ifs."

SOX ADDICT '73
02-10-2005, 10:54 PM
Considering the devotion of most of the fans who post here, it's natural that every article that praises the Sox gets applauded, and every writer who doesn't is seen as a moron. I seem to remember quite a few media sources tripping over themselves to crown the Cubs WS Champs before last season even began (remember those two drillrods on the cover of SI?). And look what happened. I'd much rather see the Sox "fly under the radar" for a while, and then enjoy it when all the Rosenthals, Gammonses, and Neyerses of the world suddenly "discover" them in June when they're running away with the Central.

Mickster
02-10-2005, 10:55 PM
As for our starting pitching, I do feel better about it, but do you honestly think El Duque can give us 200 innings? If he gets hurt, we're right back where we were last year with a black hole in the #5 spot.

El Duque giving us 83 innings and going 8-3 (similar to NYY in '04) would be a HUGE upgrade to the 5th starter spot over the last 3 years.

Second base is a great unknown for us. We can only speculate about Iguchi, although I'm glad we're not counting on Harris.

Guess what, Willie is still on the bench. An unknown in Iguchi means squat. If he fails, bring in Willie and we are at lease no worse than last year. Hell, Willie might even improve.

Yes, Dye is better than Timo and Borchard. But his addition is a wash because we traded CLee. I'm not convinced Podsednik is the answer. The guy had a good rookie year with the Brewers, but other than that, he's been mediocre his whole pro career.

His addition gives us what we have been sorely lacking at the top of the order. He is at least as good as Carlos defensively due to his speed alone. We obviously haven't won the division with big, slow, power-hitting RH bats in the middle of the order...let's try something else.

In order to win the division, we MUST have a healthy Frank. And Uribe and Rowand must give us the same production they gave us last year. And Crede must step up. We still have plenty of "What ifs."

Which team doesn't? Want me to give you the "What ifs" of the Yankees?

Jabroni
02-10-2005, 10:57 PM
Karno....Our catching combo was Davis/Burke before AJ...His worst year is better than both those guys best years combined...Its a monster upgrade, whether he can take a walk or not....Exactly. People seem to forget that even though A.J. doesn't walk much, he doesn't strikeout much either. That means he is almost always making contact in his at bats and that is definately a good thing.

BigFrankRetard
02-10-2005, 11:19 PM
Exactly. People seem to forget that even though A.J. doesn't walk much, he doesn't strikeout much either. That means he is almost always making contact in his at bats and that is definately a good thing.

Just about anything would be an offensive upgrade from the catching we've had over the past few years. :(:

Vestigio
02-10-2005, 11:26 PM
In the Feb. 18 edition of the Sporting News he ranks the MLB teams as such:

OFFSEASON IMPROVEMENTS

MAJOR UPGRADES
Yankees
Giants
Mets
Diamondbacks
Mariners

UPGRADES
Red Sox
Angels
Marlins
Brewers
Nationals

MINOR UPGRADES
Cardinals
Braves
Padres
Twins
Reds

NEED FURTHER INSPECTION
Indians
White Sox
A's
Phillies
Tigers
Orioles

DOWNGRADES
Dodgers
Astros
Cubs
Rangers

PERPETUALLY REBUILDING
Blue Jays
Pirates
Devil Rays
Royals
Rockies

I officially declare Rosenthal as just another clueless reporter.

Did Rosenthal give reasons why teams are placed the way they are, or did he just list the teams just like that.

CubKilla
02-11-2005, 11:29 AM
He hasnt played a full year since 2001, when he was awesome. There were some major questions about his health affecting his game last year. The questions will persist until he plays a full season with health.

There's that common sense thing again :D: .

The White Sox were graded 100% correctly in this article. Dispense with the givens, and you have a ton of question marks. If the question marks perform, the Sox should run away with the Division. If the question marks don't perform or suffer injuries, then prepare for the onslaught of excuses from a majority on this board who have all but presented the WS Trophy to the '05 White Sox.

ChiSoxBobette
02-11-2005, 12:58 PM
In the Feb. 18 edition of the Sporting News he ranks the MLB teams as such:

OFFSEASON IMPROVEMENTS

MAJOR UPGRADES
Yankees
Giants
Mets
Diamondbacks
Mariners

UPGRADES
Red Sox
Angels
Marlins
Brewers
Nationals

MINOR UPGRADES
Cardinals
Braves
Padres
Twins
Reds

NEED FURTHER INSPECTION
Indians
White Sox
A's
Phillies
Tigers
Orioles

DOWNGRADES
Dodgers
Astros
Cubs
Rangers

PERPETUALLY REBUILDING
Blue Jays
Pirates
Devil Rays
Royals
Rockies

I officially declare Rosenthal as just another clueless reporter.

Most, if not all, Chicago sports writers are clueless.

spawn
02-11-2005, 01:08 PM
I'd like to, but I can't argue with what he says about the Sox. Needing further inspection, in my opinion, just means the additions we made will have to prove themselves on the field. I have no problem with that. We haven't seen Iguchi play a game yet, and we don't know how El-Duque will hold up. We lost Maggs and CLee, to be replaced by Posednik(coming off a down year, with the exception of the stolen bases) and Dye. We made moves...we just don't know how good those moves are yet. How the Twins made minor upgrades, I don't know where he came up with that one, considering they lost the left side of their infield, or how saying the D-backs made major upgrades. How? Richie Sexton's bat has been replaced with Shaun Green's. Randy Johnson is gone, replaced by Vazquez and Russ Ortiz, who is extremely overrated in my book. I don't see any upgrades at all.

SoxxoS
02-11-2005, 01:16 PM
As stated earlier in the thread, how do the Twins clarify as a "minor upgrade?" Seriously. They lost the left side of their infield and signed Radke, right? Am I missing something.

If signing players you already had counts, then we signed the highest OPS CF in the American league for 3 years 8 million. How about them apples Kenny... toolbox.

havelj
02-11-2005, 01:29 PM
I have discussed topics with Ken via email on a few occasions and he has replied the same day. I suggest you email him and point out your arguments; he is a good guy - agree or disagree with him.

kenrosenthal@sportingnews.com (kenrosenthal@sportingnews.com)

Dolanski
02-11-2005, 02:03 PM
All his list tells me is that you can win the off season, but that doesn't necessarily mean you win during the season.

SABRSox
02-11-2005, 02:15 PM
As stated earlier in the thread, how do the Twins clarify as a "minor upgrade?" Seriously. They lost the left side of their infield and signed Radke, right? Am I missing something.

I think the feeling is that they're going to get a full year out of both Mauer and Morneau, and that would be a minor upgrade over last year's team, even with the loss of Guzman and Koskie. Although, you'd think that it would be addition by subtraction to let Guzman go, but when you replace him with Juan Castro...

At least he didn't also lump the Indians into that category as well. The "genius" behind signing Millwood that the media usually credits the Indians with is much worse than the "re-signing Radke was the best move of the off-season" stuff that's also been written. I can see Radke doing similarly well, Millwood is so overrated though...

longshot7
02-11-2005, 02:19 PM
How the hell did the Twins upgrade!?!

They dropped two infielders, one whom was pretty darn good, for a couple of unproven schmucks. One being Castro, who has a glove, but can't hit.

Otherwise they haven't added ****.

They resigned Radke - that's pretty huge IMO.

SoxxoS
02-11-2005, 02:20 PM
I think the feeling is that they're going to get a full year out of both Mauer and Morneau, and that would be a minor upgrade over last year's team, even with the loss of Guzman and Koskie. Although, you'd think that it would be addition by subtraction to let Guzman go, but when you replace him with Juan Castro...
.

If Rosenthal is considering who is going to do this for a full season...then it's a rediculous article. He states "offseason" improvements...etc. Mauer and Morneau having full seasons are not part of the offseason.

They picked up Mike Redmond, Juan Castro, Eric Munson (who kills the Sox), C.J. Nitkowski, Andy Fox and Armondo Rios.

Knowing the Twins, we are probably looking at a Rolaids relief man of the year in Nitkowski, Cy Young in Redmond, and silver slugger Eric Munson. :angry:

Nick@Nite
02-11-2005, 02:20 PM
The lack of national run regarding the Sox moves this off-season is because Rosenthal, Gammons, Neyers, etc., don't consider them sexy enough to warrant a major analysis.

I'm beyond waiting for the national media to praise Kenny's retooling effort. Let the Yankees, Mets, Red Sox, and the rest of the media darlings garner all the hype.

All I know is IF the Sox stay healthy, we'll be fine.

DSpivack
02-11-2005, 02:30 PM
If Rosenthal is considering who is going to do this for a full season...then it's a rediculous article. He states "offseason" improvements...etc. Mauer and Morneau having full seasons are not part of the offseason.

They picked up Mike Redmond, Juan Castro, Eric Munson (who kills the Sox), C.J. Nitkowski, Andy Fox and Armondo Rios.

Knowing the Twins, we are probably looking at a Rolaids relief man of the year in Nitkowski, Cy Young in Redmond, and silver slugger Eric Munson. :angry:

This will really be something if it happens, a catcher winning the Cy Young!

SOXintheBURGH
02-11-2005, 02:32 PM
If Rosenthal is considering who is going to do this for a full season...then it's a rediculous article. He states "offseason" improvements...etc. Mauer and Morneau having full seasons are not part of the offseason.

They picked up Mike Redmond, Juan Castro, Eric Munson (who kills the Sox), C.J. Nitkowski, Andy Fox and Armondo Rios.

Knowing the Twins, we are probably looking at a Rolaids relief man of the year in Nitkowski, Cy Young in Redmond, and silver slugger Eric Munson. :angry:

Mark Redman is the Cy Young pitcher, out of Pittsburgh. :cool:

buehrle4cy05
02-11-2005, 02:33 PM
I'm gonna go email Rosenthal...maybe get in SN?:D:

PAPChiSox729
02-11-2005, 04:43 PM
I think that is fair. I mean the most consistent and proven hitter we've added was Pierzynski. Iguchi is a rookie in the MLB. Dye and El Duque are health concerns. Hermanson, Vizcaino, and Pods are nothing to get incredibly excited about. Now if El Duque and Dye stay healthy, Pods, Pierzynski, and Crede start to hit like we know they can, and Iguchi develops into a quality player, then I will call Rosenthal on this. But right now, it is hard to argue against him.

SoxxoS
02-11-2005, 05:09 PM
Mark Redman is the Cy Young pitcher, out of Pittsburgh. :cool:

Oops.:redface:

JB98
02-11-2005, 06:12 PM
His addition gives us what we have been sorely lacking at the top of the order. He is at least as good as Carlos defensively due to his speed alone. We obviously haven't won the division with big, slow, power-hitting RH bats in the middle of the order...let's try something else.

Which team doesn't? Want me to give you the "What ifs" of the Yankees?

We have a lot more "What ifs" than the Yankees. More importantly, we have a lot more "What ifs" than the Twins. I'm not trying to rain on anybody's parade here, but I think it's foolish that we are demanding all this respect from the national press. We haven't won squat in five years.

Yeah, we haven't won with big, slow, power-hitting RH bats. Who cares? The real question is whether we will win with a .240-hitting speedster at the top of the lineup. I'm not as optimistic about Podsednik as everyone else around here.

Flight #24
02-11-2005, 11:37 PM
We have a lot more "What ifs" than the Yankees. More importantly, we have a lot more "What ifs" than the Twins. I'm not trying to rain on anybody's parade here, but I think it's foolish that we are demanding all this respect from the national press. We haven't won squat in five years.



You mean questions like:
- Can Santana repeat last year? (unlikely, even if he's still very good)
- Can Radke repeat a career year??
- Can you get production out of Cuddyer/Tiffee at 3d and Punto, etc at SS?
- Can you get consistency out of RIvas at 2B?
- Can Morneau do it over a full year once pitchers start to ID his weaknesses?
- Can Mauer stay healthy?
- Can Stewart stay healthy?
- Can Lohse stop regressing?
- Can Silva pitch like he did in September rather than like he did through most of the rest of the year?

The Twins ahve at least as many ??s as the Sox do. Yes, they've won more in the past, but "past performance is no predictor of future value"

Mickster
02-12-2005, 09:34 AM
You mean questions like:
- Can Santana repeat last year? (unlikely, even if he's still very good)
- Can Radke repeat a career year??
- Can you get production out of Cuddyer/Tiffee at 3d and Punto, etc at SS?
- Can you get consistency out of RIvas at 2B?
- Can Morneau do it over a full year once pitchers start to ID his weaknesses?
- Can Mauer stay healthy?
- Can Stewart stay healthy?
- Can Lohse stop regressing?
- Can Silva pitch like he did in September rather than like he did through most of the rest of the year?

The Twins ahve at least as many ??s as the Sox do. Yes, they've won more in the past, but "past performance is no predictor of future value"

All silly questions! Only the Sox have question about 2005......

voodoochile
02-12-2005, 10:10 AM
It's easy to look at the loss of Maggs, Lee and potential loss of Frank for a period of time and say the Sox may not be better than they were to start last season.

I don't personally agree with that assessment, but I also admit that I am biased.

It's nice to finally have 5 genuine experienced starters. It's nice to have a deep bullpen. It's nice to have some options to cover for the missing Frank or in case one of the OF fails to live up to expectations. It's also nice to have a potential AS at 2B.

None of this means anything until the season actually starts and all of these things prove themselves to be true.

The team appears to be on the right track and has finally upped the payroll to at least respectable levels. (Thanks Detroit for spending and forcing JR to throw some money on the table to keep his streak of being the biggest spending team in the ALC alive).

The questions on this team seem to be more of the "can so-and-so repeat their single good season and can so-and-so stay healthy as they age and continue to perform at a peak level" variety. Like it or not, the team has to have all of those questions answered positively for it to become more than contenders for the ALC title.

Even the article everyone seemed to like only predicted the team to win the division by 2 games over the Twins. Nothing is given and nothing has been answered. When the Twinkies make their annual second half dash for the prize, playing with swagger and attitude and running over teams that get in their way, will the Sox respond? That's the question that really needs to be answered. I'm waiting for some signs of life and it won't be an easy thing to take the ALC crown from them. The talent is there if everything clicks. Hopefully the attitude will match the talent.

SSN721
02-12-2005, 10:31 AM
I would just like it explained how re-signing Radke is an improvement. Am I mistaken or did he pitch for the Twins last year? To me that is just breaking even. I think considering the level of players the Twins have gotten in their offseason I dont see how it is any less of a question mark then what the Sox did. I dont mind the Sox put in the category they are in if you would have put the D-backs, Twins, and Seattle in the same category. Just seems strange how he ranked a couple of the other teams to me.

PAPChiSox729
02-12-2005, 07:20 PM
I would not say that Twins improved this offseason. I don't recall any signings or trades of any importance. But the important thing that they did do was get healthy. Joe Mauer is back, as well as Joe Mays. I still like our chances though :cool:

Spicoli
02-13-2005, 08:10 AM
Ultimately, Rosenthal, like most of the other 'reporters' out there, use the same formula: big names. They are "news" people and today "news" means "big". Dye's signing, Iguchi's signing, barely made blips on their radar screens for example. They are blind to other player movements for the most part. Mostly, because their attention spans on teams like the Sox (unless the Sox sign a "big name") are very short; hence they don't ponder all the "small" moves that are made and how they might add up to a "big move" or two.

The mdeia is the first to run the "little guy" story if they win--e.g., Florida Marlins. But come next season, it is all about the Beltrans...

maurice
02-14-2005, 12:38 PM
I don't object to his assessment of the Sox, but there's no evidence that the twinks "improved" at all.

As mentioned, re-signing your own players is not an "improvement." Otherwise, the cubs "improved" by re-signing Walker and Garciapara. Similarly, Mauer's alleged health is not an "improvement." He was allegedly healthy at some point last year as well. It's like saying that the Sox "improved" because Everett will be more productive at a lower weight, and because Thomas and Hernandez will play more games this year. These are "unknowns," not "improvements." While it's understandable to speculate that some young twinks will be more productive this year, young players on other teams probably will improve as well. That's also an unknown and not an offseason improvement.

rdivaldi
02-14-2005, 12:52 PM
Rosenthal was on Boers and Bernstein this morning and they gave him a grilling over his assessments of the Sox and Twins. Basically he said he had no idea how Iguchi, Dye, etc. are going to work out, so that's why he said we were up for further review. As for the Twins, he basically said that he had to give them a grade one way or the other, and he was pretty much convinced that they were going to be a better team in 2005 with Mauer, Radke, and Santana returning. Thus he gave them an improved label.

Ol' No. 2
02-14-2005, 12:58 PM
Rosenthal was on Boers and Bernstein this morning and they gave him a grilling over his assessments of the Sox and Twins. Basically he said he had no idea how Iguchi, Dye, etc. are going to work out, so that's why he said we were up for further review. As for the Twins, he basically said that he had to give them a grade one way or the other, and he was pretty much convinced that they were going to be a better team in 2005 with Mauer, Radke, and Santana returning. Thus he gave them an improved label.In other words, he decided on the answer first, then came up with reasons to support it later. Same old same old.:angry:

maurice
02-14-2005, 01:32 PM
LMAO! Sounds like the interview illustrated the complaints vividly.

Bringing back Radke and Santana does not "improve" the twinks any more than bringing back Buehrle and Garcia improves the Sox. On the contrary, using Rosenthal's "reasoning," the cubs should be one of the teams with the most offseason improvements, since they're bringing back Prior, Wood, Walker, Garciapara, Ramirez, etc.

Rosenthal = clown shoes.

rdivaldi
02-14-2005, 01:47 PM
LMAO! Sounds like the interview illustrated the complaints vividly.

Bringing back Radke and Santana does not "improve" the twinks any more than bringing back Buehrle and Garcia improves the Sox. On the contrary, using Rosenthal's "reasoning," the cubs should be one of the teams with the most offseason improvements, since they're bringing back Prior, Wood, Walker, Garciapara, Ramirez, etc.

Rosenthal = clown shoes.

Then I bet you'd also be happy to know that Rosenthal is somehow predicting the Flubs to win the NL Central and be the favorites to be in the World Series.

(Notice, no teal)

Dadawg_77
02-14-2005, 01:54 PM
The lack of national run regarding the Sox moves this off-season is because Rosenthal, Gammons, Neyers, etc., don't consider them sexy enough to warrant a major analysis.

I'm beyond waiting for the national media to praise Kenny's retooling effort. Let the Yankees, Mets, Red Sox, and the rest of the media darlings garner all the hype.

All I know is IF the Sox stay healthy, we'll be fine.

If the Sox win, Kenny will get all the praise he deserves for his offseason moves. If the Sox don't win, Kenny won't get the credit/blame he deserves. Seems like Kenny wins either way, so I am sure he likes his postion.

tacosalbarojas
02-14-2005, 02:18 PM
I think the feeling is that they're going to get a full year out of both Mauer and Morneau, and that would be a minor upgrade over last year's team, even with the loss of Guzman and Koskie. Although, you'd think that it would be addition by subtraction to let Guzman go, but when you replace him with Juan Castro...

You're on it, SABR. I think that's exactly where Rosenthal is going here. The question is will Mauer hold up physically for a full season. Joe Nathan scares the beejezus out of me. The Twins are also planning to start Bartlett at short - he's hit at every level from what I understand, so we'll see how that works out.

SOXSINCE'70
02-14-2005, 05:04 PM
Yes,the Sox have questions.I'm not sold on them winning
the 2005 WS quite yet.But the Twinkies have questions
as well,which many posters have already pointed out.

To that list of Twinkie quiries,i'd like to add this one:

-Is Johan Santana going to fall victim to the Cy
Young curse?? You've seen it before: a pitcher has
a career year,wins the Cy Young,then tries waaayyyy
to hard to duplicate the results the next season.The
results (at least most of the time): an inflated ERA
and more wins than losses.

We'll see.:D: :D:

SOXSINCE'70
02-14-2005, 05:14 PM
an inflated ERA
and more wins than losses.

We'll see.:D: :D:

I meant more losses than wins.:cuss: :cuss: