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View Full Version : Tom Tolbert: Giambi should give 00 MVP to Frank


Bisco Stu
02-10-2005, 08:44 PM
Glad to hear that verbalized by someone on sports talk radio. Of course, I am of the same opinion. In my mind Frank is a 3-time MVP. Last time I checked one month (even if it's Sept) of greatness doesn't equal a six-month season.

BigFrankRetard
02-10-2005, 09:28 PM
Not like it really matters. Everyone knows that Frank in his prime playing clean was a superior hitter in every aspect to a steroid-addled Giambi.

oeo
02-10-2005, 09:33 PM
Not like it really matters. Everyone knows that Frank in his prime playing clean was a superior hitter in every aspect to a steroid-addled Giambi.

I don't think everyone does know...I feel like Frank gets no respect whatsoever outside of us White Sox fans.

batmanZoSo
02-10-2005, 09:37 PM
I don't think everyone does know...I feel like Frank gets no respect whatsoever outside of us White Sox fans.

The educated stat guys like Bill James know what's up. And some smart writers, which is a small minority.

BigFrankRetard
02-10-2005, 09:39 PM
I don't think everyone does know...I feel like Frank gets no respect whatsoever outside of us White Sox fans.

Perhaps not to the casual fan, but any sportswriter worth his/her weight in salt knows what a stud he was back in the '90s. More importantly, those on the HOF committee will never confuse him with Giambi.

Ol' No. 2
02-10-2005, 09:42 PM
Perhaps not to the casual fan, but any sportswriter worth his/her weight in salt knows what a stud he was back in the '90s. More importantly, those on the HOF committee will never confuse him with Giambi.Just wait. What goes around comes around. When the dust settles from this steroid mess, people will suddenly discover how good Frank Thomas really was. And of course, they'll all pretend they knew all along.

idseer
02-10-2005, 09:42 PM
Glad to hear that verbalized by someone on sports talk radio. Of course, I am of the same opinion. In my mind Frank is a 3-time MVP. Last time I checked one month (even if it's Sept) of greatness doesn't equal a six-month season.

thomas got screwed for sure.
in addition .... thomas got screwed out of another big award. he should have been rookie of the year.

BigFrankRetard
02-10-2005, 09:45 PM
Just wait. What goes around comes around. When the dust settles from this steroid mess, people will suddenly discover how good Frank Thomas really was. And of course, they'll all pretend they knew all along.

Amen. :cheers:

guillen4life13
02-10-2005, 09:54 PM
I feel like Frank gets no respect whatsoever outside of us White Sox fans.

I'm being honest here: I think that Frank deserves more respect from Sox fans. He gets a lot of unwarranted crap from Sox fans--a lot.

Jabroni
02-10-2005, 09:56 PM
I'm being honest here: I think that Frank deserves more respect from Sox fans. He gets a lot of unwarranted crap from Sox fans--a lot.It's because Magglio was our franchise player, not Frank.

FightingBillini
02-10-2005, 09:56 PM
:threadrules:

Damn straight he should turn it over. He shouldnt have won the award in the first place.

oeo
02-10-2005, 09:57 PM
I'm being honest here: I think that Frank deserves more respect from Sox fans. He gets a lot of unwarranted crap from Sox fans--a lot.

Agreed, but are we the only fans that realize what a great player he was?

SoxWillWin
02-10-2005, 09:59 PM
I'm being honest here: I think that Frank deserves more respect from Sox fans. He gets a lot of unwarranted crap from Sox fans--a lot.

I agree that he gets crap from sox fans, but I think it's more because when he's struggles we know he can do better. It's not that we mean him harm it's just we have such high expectations for frank that when he doesn't meet them we get miffed.

FarWestChicago
02-10-2005, 10:04 PM
Glad to hear that verbalized by someone on sports talk radio. Of course, I am of the same opinion. In my mind Frank is a 3-time MVP. Last time I checked one month (even if it's Sept) of greatness doesn't equal a six-month season.Tolber is great on the radio. Sometimes I wish my commute home took longer. http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Jerome
02-10-2005, 10:34 PM
The educated stat guys like Bill James know what's up. And some smart writers, which is a small minority.

*** are you talking about?! Frank's defense sucks, he's always injured, he has no speed, and worst of all, he's a clubhouse cancer!


Seriously though, just because he's said some dumb things to the media, non-Sox fans hate the guy. This whole Giambi thing makes me love Frank even more as a player. It will be a sad, sad day the day Frank leaves this team. Chicago will realize that it had a legend and didn't apprciate it at all. Oh wait. I forgot. His skills are 'diminished'.

OzzieBall2004
02-10-2005, 10:38 PM
As much as I agree with everything that has been said in this thread, I think we can all agree that nothing will solidify Franks spot in the hall more than returning this year and continuing where he left off last season. Kepp the OBP up, hit somewhere between 35 and 45 homeruns, 100+ RBIs, and a playoff spot, and hell he could ride off into the sunset after this year and be a sure thing. With Frank, I just think the second he proves the naysayers wrong that he's been on a steep decline and gets his 500, he'll be as good as gold.

Banix12
02-10-2005, 10:40 PM
I would rather the award be stripped from him and the record book changed. Just having Giambi say Frank should have won won't necessarily change anything.

And for all his apologizing today at his press conference, he really should apologize to Frank Thomas and the fans of Chicago.

It's also kinda condecending that the media, ESPN especially, think fans will forgive him if he puts up another monster year this year. If Giambi puts up another monster year like he did in his MVP season won't all of baseball just think he found some sort of new steroid that can't be detected?

DrCrawdad
02-11-2005, 08:07 AM
Just wait. What goes around comes around. When the dust settles from this steroid mess, people will suddenly discover how good Frank Thomas really was. And of course, they'll all pretend they knew all along.

I don't believe for a second that Frank has used steroids. However, I wonder if the fact that so many others have might hurt him. How? After Frank's done in MLB what if there are people reviewing his stats and they think that he underachieved with HR when everyone was using steroids?

Hangar18
02-11-2005, 09:33 AM
Just wait. What goes around comes around. When the dust settles from this steroid mess, people will suddenly discover how good Frank Thomas really was. And of course, they'll all pretend they knew all along.

YUP, the Chicago Media will be on the Frank Bandwagon in about.....oh
5 years

DrCrawdad
02-11-2005, 10:21 AM
BigFrankRetard? Did one of the mods change this guy's user name to BigFrankRetard?

Jaffar
02-11-2005, 10:26 AM
The biggest problem with the Giambi aopolgy is he apologized for nothing. Granted he said he was sorry a million times but sorry for what? Cheating?(a word he never used) Steriods?(another word he never used) It was really a completely pointless press conference. I hope Frank comes back this season and plays well. Why hasn't anybody asked Giambi or Bud about the 2000 MVP Award? Is it just because people are afraid of "the system"? I just get so frustrated with this whole situation because it seems like everybody knows but nobody will do anything about it.

jabrch
02-11-2005, 10:46 AM
The educated stat guys like Bill James know what's up. And some smart writers, which is a small minority.

Bill James...Not my favorite baseball expert. Frank was a great hitter because he was. Bill James calculator validating his greatness doesn't do it for me. Watching Frank from 90 until 2000 did.

RKMeibalane
02-11-2005, 10:49 AM
Agreed, but are we the only fans that realize what a great player he was?

Believe it or not, there are a few fans outside of Soxland who realize what a great player Frank is. There are people who understand perfectly how the media in Chicago has gone out of its way to trash the reputation of Frank Thomas while kissing Sammy Sosa's ass. It's going to be interesting to see how the media approaches Frank now that Sosa is gone. I'm betting that Crowley, Mariotti, and rest of the of those worthless ****heads will act as though they were always in Frank's corner, especially after it comes out that he was one of the few people who didn't use steroids or any other means to cheat.

Tom Tolbert just earned my respect for saying what he did. We need more people like him to step forward and "tell it like it is." The more people start telling the truth... about anything, the better off things will be for all of us. The vindication of Frank Thomas, Ken Griffey Jr, and any other baseball start whose reputation has taken hit in the past six or seven years marks the first of several steps towards fixing the game of baseball.

Bobby Thigpen
02-11-2005, 10:57 AM
There are also many outside us Sox fans who wholeheartedly believe that Frank is and has always been on the juice. I have my problems with Frank, but I have never even SUSPECTED that he's on steriods. These people who believe that he is have obviously never seen pictures of him from his rookie year when he was still huge.


And yes, I do believe that Frank's career will be seen properly with the ongoing revealing of who's on roids and who isn't.

PaleHoseGeorge
02-11-2005, 07:40 PM
Does anybody else find it strange that the media in the Bay Area thinks Frank Thomas deserves the '00 MVP, but none of the sports mediots in Chicago have seen fit to cover that angle to the Giambi story?

Okay... it's not strange at all. In fact it's typical.
:mad:

voodoochile
02-11-2005, 07:54 PM
Does anybody else find it strange that the media in the Bay Area thinks Frank Thomas deserves the '00 MVP, but none of the sports mediots in Chicago have seen fit to cover that angle to the Giambi story?

Okay... it's not strange at all. In fact it's typical.
:mad:

And as usual, the Sox stay silent.

King George has ripped Giambi harder than the Sox have...

RedPinStripes
02-11-2005, 08:22 PM
I cant wait to hear what Frank has to say about all this. Hopefully people dont twist it around like most of the time.

RKMeibalane
02-11-2005, 08:44 PM
I cant wait to hear what Frank has to say about all this. Hopefully people dont twist it around like most of the time.

I actually hope he doesn't say anything. If he does his work quietly, people won't have anything they can use against him, especially after the names of the other cheaters are released.

RKMeibalane
02-11-2005, 08:46 PM
And as usual, the Sox stay silent.

King George has ripped Giambi harder than the Sox have...

That's because the Sox organization is to short-sighted to realize that they have an opportunity to take a stand against Giambi and the rest of those cheating sonofabitches who are ruining baseball.

Fearless prediction #5819: Jason Giambi will be out of baseball entirely by the end of Spring Training. And I will laugh at him.

SABRSox
02-11-2005, 10:40 PM
I might have my history a little confused, but wasn't Dan Patrick openly campaigning on his radio show for Giambi's '00 MVP? You listen to Patrick now, and he's crucifying Giambi, yet doesn't mention how much of a Giambi fan he was before Giambi admitted to using the juice.

ja1022
02-12-2005, 10:36 AM
I might have my history a little confused, but wasn't Dan Patrick openly campaigning on his radio show for Giambi's '00 MVP? You listen to Patrick now, and he's crucifying Giambi, yet doesn't mention how much of a Giambi fan he was before Giambi admitted to using the juice.

You're not confused. Giambi was a frequent guest on Patrick's show in 2000. As it still is, that was a nationally syndicated show and Giambi came across as a very likeable, biker dude type of guy. He was self-effacing, humorous and didn't seem to take himself to seriously. While I don't remember Giambi saying much about the MVP race, Patrick talked about it daily, and clearly was in Giambi's camp.

PAPChiSox729
02-12-2005, 07:03 PM
I've considered actually writting the higher-uppers in the MLB about this issue ever since Giambi came out and admitted his use of steroids. I'm sure I wouldn't get a serious response though. Has their ever been an organized protest of the '00 MVP since Giambi came out?

batmanZoSo
02-12-2005, 07:16 PM
You know, one day Frank will lead this team to a World Series, then leave this godforsaken town and media that treated him so badly.

Good riddance...you won't have old Frank Thomas to push around anymore.

And he'll just walk off into the sunset with his coat over one shoulder and a bat in the other. Then maybe, just maybe, he'll be missed. :cool:

jabrch
02-12-2005, 07:34 PM
You know, one day Frank will lead this team to a World Series, then leave this godforsaken town and media that treated him so badly.


Poor Frank...poor poor Frank

hose
02-12-2005, 09:21 PM
I don't hear anybody pushing for the second place finisher to Caminiti.

NSSoxFan
02-12-2005, 09:23 PM
I don't hear anybody pushing for the second place finisher to Caminiti.

That is because the second place finisher to Caminiti wasn't a White Sox.

PaleHoseGeorge
02-13-2005, 07:33 AM
That is because the second place finisher to Caminiti wasn't a White Sox.

Caminiti walked away with the voting, too.

Frank has a case. How sad not even some Sox Fans are willing to make it on his behalf.
:(:

RKMeibalane
02-13-2005, 09:28 AM
Poor Frank...poor poor Frank

:troll

TaylorStSox
02-13-2005, 01:28 PM
Believe it or not, there are a few fans outside of Soxland who realize what a great player Frank is. There are people who understand perfectly how the media in Chicago has gone out of its way to trash the reputation of Frank Thomas while kissing Sammy Sosa's ass. It's going to be interesting to see how the media approaches Frank now that Sosa is gone. I'm betting that Crowley, Mariotti, and rest of the of those worthless ****heads will act as though they were always in Frank's corner, especially after it comes out that he was one of the few people who didn't use steroids or any other means to cheat.

Tom Tolbert just earned my respect for saying what he did. We need more people like him to step forward and "tell it like it is." The more people start telling the truth... about anything, the better off things will be for all of us. The vindication of Frank Thomas, Ken Griffey Jr, and any other baseball start whose reputation has taken hit in the past six or seven years marks the first of several steps towards fixing the game of baseball.


I don't see how Griffey is vindicated. IMO, he's one of the prime suspects. He had a spike in power numbers, a drastically changed body, and a long list of subsequent muscle related injuries.

guillen4life13
02-13-2005, 01:58 PM
I don't see how Griffey is vindicated. IMO, he's one of the prime suspects. He had a spike in power numbers, a drastically changed body, and a long list of subsequent muscle related injuries.

I don't remember him ever suddenly bulking up a lot. Any change in his physique looks perfectly in line with aging. He has always been a relatively slender guy whose ball timing caused him to hit those homers--not necessarily his strength. As far as I can see, most of his injuries were freak injuries caused by him going all out, either in the outfield or on the basepaths. Remember, this guy was a premier defensive CF also.

TaylorStSox
02-13-2005, 02:11 PM
I don't remember him ever suddenly bulking up a lot. Any change in his physique looks perfectly in line with aging. He has always been a relatively slender guy whose ball timing caused him to hit those homers--not necessarily his strength. As far as I can see, most of his injuries were freak injuries caused by him going all out, either in the outfield or on the basepaths. Remember, this guy was a premier defensive CF also.


Muscle problems aren't "freakish." I've never seen a guy sit so long from pulling muscles so frequently. His homerun stats spiked in the mid 90's, going up more than 20 in one year. Those numbers were follwed by said injuries. His body has really changed. While it could be from natural aging, lots of athletes maintain their bodies better as they age. Griffey gained a ton of weight.

I hope I'm wrong, but I just have a feeling.

IMO, if anybody should be "vindicated," it's Thome, not including Frank of course.

*edit* I'd add Piazza to that list as well.