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Dadawg_77
02-10-2005, 12:10 PM
A coulple of new studies came out today comparing trades by win shares. According to the first one the Sox have acquired the second most Win Shares in trades from 1961 - 2002, thrid in Win Shares per trade. The other study names the most lopsided trades of all time. In the top ten the White Sox were on the right side two times and on the wrong side once.


#5:


Date: January 20, 1965
Trade: Three-team deal—The White Sox get Tommy John, Tommy Agee and Johnny Romano from Cleveland and send Cam Carreon to Cleveland and a player to be named later (Fred Talbot), Jim Landis, and Mike Hershberger to the Kansas City. Also,Kansas City sent Rocky Colavito to Cleveland
Win Share Difference: 339 (White Sox transactions only)
WSAR Diff: 213 Again Beane would be proud: Horn your way into a deal and get the players you want in the process. The Sox pick up two young Tommies as Colavito returns to Cleveland. The Sox give up quantity, a number of players that they no longer need or want, and get youthful quality.


#8 :


Date: December 6, 1959
Trade: Cleveland gets Johnny Romano, Bubba Phillips, and Norm Cash from the White Sox for Don Ferrarese, Dick Brown, Minnie Minoso, and Jake Striker.
Win Share Difference: 371
WSAR Diff: 198


#9 (tied):


Date: July 29, 1989
Trade: The White Sox get Scott Fletcher, Sammy Sosa (http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/sosasa01.shtml), and Wilson Alvarez (http://www.baseball-reference.com/a/alvarwi01.shtml) from Texas for Fred Manrique and Harold Baines.
Win Share Difference: 312
WSAR Diff: 189

Best/Worst Trades ever: http://www.all-baseball.com/mikesbballrants/

Best dealers: http://www.hardballtimes.com/daily/article/the-best-and-worst-teams-of-the-trade/

Flight #24
02-10-2005, 12:22 PM
Interesting, although it would be great to see the actual breakdown by year - we might finally dispel the "KW as idiot GM" notion.

Also, I'd guess that the more recent trades aren't properly evaluated unless there's some sort of salary equalizer involved. For example, from a pure talent trade, the Carlos-Pods/Vizcaino deal is horrible for the Sox. But when you factor in $6-8mil in savings, it's a much better deal.

Mickster
02-10-2005, 12:25 PM
Garcia for Olivo/Reed/Morse is not #1 on the top 10 worst tredes list??? :?:

lowesox
02-10-2005, 12:29 PM
I find it very interesting how the proponents of this trade seem to act as though it's now very clear that the White Sox came out on top.

Mickster
02-10-2005, 01:03 PM
I find it very interesting how the proponents of this trade seem to act as though it's now very clear that the White Sox came out on top.

I find it interesting that some of the opponents of this trade thought it was the end of the world and were calling for KW's head.

I also find it interesting that we bolstered our biggest need (pitching) and signed him to a 3 year, somewhat modest deal, before the off-season where the likes of Kris Benson were getting 3 year 24 Million deals. We also replaced our hole at catching with AJ.

I honestly think that it IS very clear that we came out on top.

Ol' No. 2
02-10-2005, 01:04 PM
A coulple of new studies came out today comparing trades by win shares. According to the first one the Sox have acquired the second most Win Shares in trades from 1961 - 2002, thrid in Win Shares per trade. The other study names the most lopsided trades of all time. In the top ten the White Sox were on the right side two times and on the wrong side once.



Best/Worst Trades ever: http://www.all-baseball.com/mikesbballrants/

Best dealers: http://www.hardballtimes.com/daily/article/the-best-and-worst-teams-of-the-trade/What??? How come the Sosa for Bell deal isn't on the list? I thought that was the worst trade EVER.

ma-gaga
02-10-2005, 03:03 PM
I honestly think that it IS very clear that we came out on top.

I think that it is waay too soon to tell ANYTHING substantial about this deal whatsoever.

You've gotten one good half season from Garcia. Right now the W.Sox are the big winner in the deal. Talk about it in 5 years, see where you are then.

Kuzman
02-10-2005, 03:22 PM
i think that Todd Ritchie trade should be up there.

batmanZoSo
02-10-2005, 03:41 PM
I suppose this is another feather in our petty cap, and good ammo for a Hangar argument at our next trip to a bar (considering the cubs are -35). But it's safe to say this hasn't done much for us.

Flight #24
02-10-2005, 03:43 PM
i think that Todd Ritchie trade should be up there.

I don't know the win shares provided by Fogg/Wells, but I'm guessing that they're not very high, so in the end we traded something decent-but-not-great for something bad (Ritchie).

There are much worse deals out there.

lowesox
02-10-2005, 03:58 PM
I find it interesting that some of the opponents of this trade thought it was the end of the world and were calling for KW's head.

I also find it interesting that we bolstered our biggest need (pitching) and signed him to a 3 year, somewhat modest deal, before the off-season where the likes of Kris Benson were getting 3 year 24 Million deals. We also replaced our hole at catching with AJ.

I honestly think that it IS very clear that we came out on top.

Wow... a whole lot of cockiness without a lot to back it up.

The thing is, I'm all for people voicing their opinions on a trade when it happens. Lord knows I do. But to act like everything is so clear cut after only a couple months is absolutely ridiculous. Especially when we're talking about the three young players we sent to them - two of whom have a boatload of potential.

As for Garcia's contract, it's definitely looking pretty good - especially after what happened during the offseason. But we all know Garcia wanted to play with Guillen. Who's to say that he wouldn't have come over for the same price as a free agent? And the AJ point is a whole other argument if you ask me - because it required that we trade Lee, who isn't such a bad player himself.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have made the trade. I'm actually quite happy about where the team is right now. But to get all sarcastic about how great a trade it was, is a little much.

Mickster
02-10-2005, 04:26 PM
Wow... a whole lot of cockiness without a lot to back it up.

:?: Care to explain?

The thing is, I'm all for people voicing their opinions on a trade when it happens. Lord knows I do. But to act like everything is so clear cut after only a couple months is absolutely ridiculous. Especially when we're talking about the three young players we sent to them - two of whom have a boatload of potential.

As for Garcia's contract, it's definitely looking pretty good - especially after what happened during the offseason. But we all know Garcia wanted to play with Guillen. Who's to say that he wouldn't have come over for the same price as a free agent? And the AJ point is a whole other argument if you ask me - because it required that we trade Lee, who isn't such a bad player himself.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have made the trade. I'm actually quite happy about where the team is right now. But to get all sarcastic about how great a trade it was, is a little much.

The team has desperately needed pitching for quite some time. We bring in a top 10 pitcher (in most statistical categories) and give up Olivo and a prospect (tell me when Reed actually does anything worth mentioning at the MLB level). I like the trade straight up. Liked it then, love it now knowing what happened with the price of pitching this off-season and the subsequent moves that this team has made.

Sorry to offend you with my sarcasm.

doublem23
02-10-2005, 04:46 PM
I suppose this is another feather in our petty cap, and good ammo for a Hangar argument at our next trip to a bar (considering the cubs are -35). But it's safe to say this hasn't done much for us.

What are you talking about? Those 4 play-off wins since 1962 don't mean anything to you?

kempsted
02-14-2005, 02:58 PM
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-best-and-worst-teams-of-the-trade-revisted/

Read the above. The White Sox have come out the better for their trades in the last 40 years than any other team. Now we just need to win for once.

PAPChiSox729
02-14-2005, 04:40 PM
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-best-and-worst-teams-of-the-trade-revisted/

Read the above. The White Sox have come out the better for their trades in the last 40 years than any other team. Now we just need to win for once.

Exactely.